Whoever gave NM a keyring

[Karl F. Larsen]

        The keyring is a complete worthless poorly written software
that makes Network Manager (NM) worthless! There is NO reason
to protect the password I gave my router. It is just to keep
local Internet users guessing.

        I had to delete a lot of the keyring stuff and that somehow
caused it to need a new password! So I gave it karl. Now when
I start 9.10 a panel comes up first asking for my keyring
password, I give it karl and the NM starts fine now.

        But this is STUPID!

        If you are the one who put the gnome-keyring into the NM
PLEASE TAKE IT OUT. I deleted all I was able to as a root user
and keyring is still alive and well.

        This is why so many people use wcid. No keyring crap.


73 Karl

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[Avi Greenbury]

"Karl F. Larsen" <klarsen1@...> wrote:
> The keyring is a complete worthless poorly written software
> that makes Network Manager (NM) worthless! There is NO reason
> to protect the password I gave my router. It is just to keep
> local Internet users guessing.

Unless you want to let users browse your network using your PC with
its restrictions, but not browse it on theirs without them.

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[Nils Kassube-2]

Karl F. Larsen wrote:
> The keyring is a complete worthless poorly written software
> that makes Network Manager (NM) worthless!

Please don't make such a general statement if it is only valid for you.
Others may really need the keyring feature. IIRC you were cursing nm
because of the keyring dependency before. And I think you were told to
use an empty password or the same as your login password to make the
keyring thingy not ask any more. I don't know which one or if that works
though because I use KDE which doesn't have the keyring (it uses kwallet
instead).

> This is why so many people use wcid. No keyring crap.

Again a general statement which isn't necessarily true for everybody. I
prefer wicd because of a totally different reason: it will make the WLAN
connection independent from the login of a user.


Nils


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[Markus Schönhaber-11]

Nils Kassube:

> Again a general statement which isn't necessarily true for everybody. I
> prefer wicd because of a totally different reason: it will make the WLAN
> connection independent from the login of a user.

Which NM also does - at least for me since Jaunty.

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[Karl F. Larsen]

Avi Greenbury wrote:

> "Karl F. Larsen" <klarsen1@...> wrote:
>> The keyring is a complete worthless poorly written software
>> that makes Network Manager (NM) worthless! There is NO reason
>> to protect the password I gave my router. It is just to keep
>> local Internet users guessing.
>
> Unless you want to let users browse your network using your PC with
> its restrictions, but not browse it on theirs without them.
>
> --
> Avi Greenbury
> http://aviswebsite.co.uk ;)
> http://aviswebsite.co.uk/asking-questions
>

        Well I wrote a bug on keyring and it follows. Please does it
make sense to you?

>
>                 Keychain and Network Manager bug
>        
>         The bug is on keychain used to save the Network Manager password(s). It means that there is at least one extra step to take before you get any Internet. If you have a wired Internet the keychain does not interfere.        
>
>         This bug is repeatable, but you need to have a WiFi Internet source in your area. Load either Ubuntu version 9.01 or 9.10 onto a computer that expects to get the Internet via WiFi. This is most often a laptop.
>
>         After a reboot when you have the software loaded it will come up and detect the WiFi and a panel will come up asking you to enter the password for your keyring. Since you never gave a keyring a password this is a real problem.
>
>         They provide either an OK answer or a Deny answer. If you press Deny several times the panel goes away.
>
>         My system then brings up a panel asking for me to give the password of my router. I have that and enter it. This panel goes away and the original panel comes back. Press Deny a few times and it goes away.
>
>         Now Network Manager starts working and it is fine. But every time you reboot you must do the same drill above.
>
>         A partial fix was found that involves delete of several files which cause the keyring to ask for a new password. You can give this password. Then reboot and the keyring panel appears and you give it your known password and Network Manager starts automatic.  
>
>         The solution to this bug is to change the software so keychain ignores the Network Manager like it already does for wcid, a replacement for Network Manager.
>
>

73 Karl


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[Karl F. Larsen]

Markus Schönhaber wrote:
> Nils Kassube:
>
>> Again a general statement which isn't necessarily true for everybody. I
>> prefer wicd because of a totally different reason: it will make the WLAN
>> connection independent from the login of a user.
>
> Which NM also does - at least for me since Jaunty.
>
        Not really. Using NM you must give the other user the
password to the keyring.

73 Karl


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[Andy-93]

2009/11/6 Karl F. Larsen <klarsen1@...>:
>> Load either Ubuntu version 9.01 or 9.10

There is no Ubuntu 9.01, did you mean 9.04?
You probably want to use 9.10 anyway,

>>         Now Network Manager starts working and it is fine. But every time you reboot you
>> must do the same drill above.

Never had to do that on my machine.

>>         A partial fix was found that involves delete of several files which cause the keyring to
>> ask for a new password. You can give this password. Then reboot and the keyring panel
>> appears and you give it your known password and Network Manager starts automatic.

Probably unwise to delete files unless you know precisely what they do.
Also makes it harder for developers to debug your problem as you are
now running a non-standard install of Gnome Keyring.
Gnome-keyring my be misperforming because it actually needed those files.
Try replacing the files (you did backup the files right?).

>>         The solution to this bug is to change the software so keychain ignores the
>> Network Manager like it already does for wcid, a replacement for Network Manager.

I'm not up on the architecture of Gnome but I would imagine it's NM
asking keychain for access to the password. Thus keychain does not
require changing.

I doubt this can be considered a bug. It was probably designed this way,

It could just be a permissions issue. Try opening "Passwords and
encryption keys" (under applications).
Select the passwords tab.
Expand any entries and look for something like "Network secret for XXXXXXX"
Right click and select properties.
Under applications check you have "nm-connection-editor" and "Network
Manager Applet"
Set permissions to Read/Write/Delete for both of them.

I'm not sure how to add applications to that list. I assume they are
added if they ask for permission and you click "Always Allow".

Andy

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[Markus Schönhaber-11]

Karl F. Larsen:

> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
>> Nils Kassube:
>>
>>> Again a general statement which isn't necessarily true for everybody. I
>>> prefer wicd because of a totally different reason: it will make the WLAN
>>> connection independent from the login of a user.
>> Which NM also does - at least for me since Jaunty.
>>
> Not really. Using NM you must give the other user the
> password to the keyring.

Wrong.
NM establishes the WLAN connection even *without any user logged in*.
Which makes it very obvious that the WPA password is not stored in any
individual user's keyring.

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[Karl F. Larsen]

Markus Schönhaber wrote:

> Karl F. Larsen:
>
>> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
>>> Nils Kassube:
>>>
>>>> Again a general statement which isn't necessarily true for everybody. I
>>>> prefer wicd because of a totally different reason: it will make the WLAN
>>>> connection independent from the login of a user.
>>> Which NM also does - at least for me since Jaunty.
>>>
>> Not really. Using NM you must give the other user the
>> password to the keyring.
>
> Wrong.
> NM establishes the WLAN connection even *without any user logged in*.
> Which makes it very obvious that the WPA password is not stored in any
> individual user's keyring.
>

        You are dead wrong!

Karl


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[SteVe Cook]

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:05:19 -0000, Karl F. Larsen <klarsen1@...>  
wrote:

> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
>> Karl F. Larsen:
>>
>>> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
>>>> Nils Kassube:
>>>>
>>>>> Again a general statement which isn't necessarily true for  
>>>>> everybody. I
>>>>> prefer wicd because of a totally different reason: it will make the  
>>>>> WLAN
>>>>> connection independent from the login of a user.
>>>> Which NM also does - at least for me since Jaunty.
>>>>
>>> Not really. Using NM you must give the other user the
>>> password to the keyring.
>>
>> Wrong.
>> NM establishes the WLAN connection even *without any user logged in*.
>> Which makes it very obvious that the WPA password is not stored in any
>> individual user's keyring.
>>
> You are dead wrong!
>
> Karl
>
>

"Since NetworkManager considers wireless selection as a preference, it  
does not connect to any wireless networks unless a user is logged onto a  
desktop and one is selected."

 From http://www.redhat.com/magazine/003jan05/features/networkmanager/


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[Karl F. Larsen]

Steve wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:05:19 -0000, Karl F. Larsen <klarsen1@...>  
> wrote:
>
>> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
>>> Karl F. Larsen:
>>>
>>>> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
>>>>> Nils Kassube:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Again a general statement which isn't necessarily true for  
>>>>>> everybody. I
>>>>>> prefer wicd because of a totally different reason: it will make the  
>>>>>> WLAN
>>>>>> connection independent from the login of a user.
>>>>> Which NM also does - at least for me since Jaunty.
>>>>>
>>>> Not really. Using NM you must give the other user the
>>>> password to the keyring.
>>> Wrong.
>>> NM establishes the WLAN connection even *without any user logged in*.
>>> Which makes it very obvious that the WPA password is not stored in any
>>> individual user's keyring.
>>>
>> You are dead wrong!
>>
>> Karl
>>
>>
> "Since NetworkManager considers wireless selection as a preference, it  
> does not connect to any wireless networks unless a user is logged onto a  
> desktop and one is selected."
>
>  From http://www.redhat.com/magazine/003jan05/features/networkmanager/
>
>

        I hope it is possible to stop this stupidity.

73 Karl


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[Markus Schönhaber-11]

Karl F. Larsen:

> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
>> Karl F. Larsen:

>>> Not really. Using NM you must give the other user the
>>> password to the keyring.
>> Wrong.
>> NM establishes the WLAN connection even *without any user logged in*.
>> Which makes it very obvious that the WPA password is not stored in any
>> individual user's keyring.
>>
> You are dead wrong!

No. As almost always, you don't have the slightest clue what you are
talking about and you're therefore unable to tell right from wrong.

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[Markus Schönhaber-11]

Steve:

>>>> Markus Schönhaber wrote:

>>>>> Which NM also does - at least for me since Jaunty.
>>>>>
>>>> Not really. Using NM you must give the other user the
>>>> password to the keyring.

> "Since NetworkManager considers wireless selection as a preference, it  
> does not connect to any wireless networks unless a user is logged onto a  
> desktop and one is selected."
>
>  From http://www.redhat.com/magazine/003jan05/features/networkmanager/

Great! You have excavated some information almost five years old.
What does that prove wrt the situation today?

BTW: ever wondered what the "Available to all users" check-box in NM's
connection editor might be good for?

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[Markus Schönhaber-11]

Karl F. Larsen:

> I hope it is possible to stop this stupidity.

That's what I hope, too.
But, alas, experience shows: you will not stop.

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[Karl F. Larsen]

Markus Schönhaber wrote:
> Karl F. Larsen:
>
>> I hope it is possible to stop this stupidity.
>
> That's what I hope, too.
> But, alas, experience shows: you will not stop.
>

        I finish what I do much different from you. I direct you to
bug # 476967 which is technical and you may not understand it.
Too bad, for you!

Karl


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[Markus Schönhaber-11]

Karl F. Larsen:

> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
>> Karl F. Larsen:
>>
>>> I hope it is possible to stop this stupidity.
>> That's what I hope, too.
>> But, alas, experience shows: you will not stop.
>>
>
> I finish what I do much different from you. I direct you to
> bug # 476967 which is technical and you may not understand it.
> Too bad, for you!

OK, I've read your "bug report" (of which the most "technical" thing is
that you prove yourself, again, as technically clueless).
I was even inclined to consider that as funny. But, OTOH, you're wasting
the developers'/bug wranglers' time with senseless gibberish. And that
isn't funny at all.

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[meandmine]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Markus Schönhaber wrote:

> Karl F. Larsen:
>
>> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
>>> Karl F. Larsen:
>>>
>>>> I hope it is possible to stop this stupidity.
>>> That's what I hope, too.
>>> But, alas, experience shows: you will not stop.
>>>
>> I finish what I do much different from you. I direct you to
>> bug # 476967 which is technical and you may not understand it.
>> Too bad, for you!
>
> OK, I've read your "bug report" (of which the most "technical" thing is
> that you prove yourself, again, as technically clueless).
> I was even inclined to consider that as funny. But, OTOH, you're wasting
> the developers'/bug wranglers' time with senseless gibberish. And that
> isn't funny at all.
>

As I used to box when I was younger, I say take it to the ring or off list.
Neither one has clearly spoken an answer to the origins of this post.
Even though Karl started it. It's become a smattering of "I'm smarter
than you, so shut up." to "I'm older and demand respect.".

After a simple Google, I found this: >
http://lifehacker.com/276986/stop-nm+applet-from-authenticating-with-the-keyring
and here is where that post is pointing: >
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?s=f5de5634f4448d733a599c23e4bb0257&p=2776815&postcount=1

Satisfied? Karl was actually right.

Me runs for flame-proof suit!
Scott
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[Leonard Chatagnier-2]

--- On Fri, 11/6/09, meandmine <redhowlingwolves@...> wrote:

> From: meandmine <redhowlingwolves@...>
> Subject: Re: Whoever gave NM a keyring
> To: ubuntu-users@...
> Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 11:32 PM
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
> > Karl F. Larsen:
> >
> >> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
> >>> Karl F. Larsen:
> >>>
> >>>>     I hope it is possible
> to stop this stupidity.
> >>> That's what I hope, too.
> >>> But, alas, experience shows: you will not
> stop.
> >>>
> >>     I finish what I do much
> different from you. I direct you to
> >> bug # 476967 which is technical and you may not
> understand it.
> >> Too bad, for you!
> >
> > OK, I've read your "bug report" (of which the most
> "technical" thing is
> > that you prove yourself, again, as technically
> clueless).
> > I was even inclined to consider that as funny. But,
> OTOH, you're wasting
> > the developers'/bug wranglers' time with senseless
> gibberish. And that
> > isn't funny at all.
> >
> As I used to box when I was younger, I say take it to the
> ring or off list.
> Neither one has clearly spoken an answer to the origins of
> this post.
> Even though Karl started it. It's become a smattering of
> "I'm smarter
> than you, so shut up." to "I'm older and demand respect.".
>
> After a simple Google, I found this: >
> http://lifehacker.com/276986/stop-nm+applet-from-authenticating-with-the-keyring
> and here is where that post is pointing: >
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?s=f5de5634f4448d733a599c23e4bb0257&p=2776815&postcount=1
>
> Satisfied? Karl was actually right.
>
> Me runs for flame-proof suit!
> Scott
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> =Cxiw
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

Yeah, you'll likely need it-:o))  Do you reckon that this
will now close the issue.  I hope so but rather doubt it will stop.  Good googling by the way.
Leonard Chatagnier
lenc5570@...



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[Robert Holtzman]

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009, Karl F. Larsen wrote:

> Markus Schönhaber wrote:
>> Karl F. Larsen:
>>
>>> I hope it is possible to stop this stupidity.
>>
>> That's what I hope, too.
>> But, alas, experience shows: you will not stop.
>>
>
> I finish what I do much different from you.

Is this an actual sentence?

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[Tom H-4]

>>> I finish what I do much different from you. I direct you to
>>> bug # 476967 which is technical and you may not understand it.

>> OK, I've read your "bug report" (of which the most "technical" thing is
>> that you prove yourself, again, as technically clueless).
>> I was even inclined to consider that as funny. But, OTOH, you're wasting
>> the developers'/bug wranglers' time with senseless gibberish. And that
>> isn't funny at all.

> After a simple Google, I found this: >
> http://lifehacker.com/276986/stop-nm+applet-from-authenticating-with-the-keyring
> and here is where that post is pointing: >
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?s=f5de5634f4448d733a599c23e4bb0257&p=2776815&postcount=1

> Satisfied? Karl was actually right.

Both your links are from 2007; antiquity in Ubuntu terms.

A dev has replied to Karl: "When Ubuntu 9.04 or 9.10 is installed, the
login keyring is set to the same password as the user that was setup
during installation. When the user logs in the first time, the keyring
is unlocked automatically. I cannot reproduce the behaviour you
described. Network manager and gnome-keyring work as expected. Please
give exact steps needed to reproduce the problem you are having."

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