Why can't I ugrade Fedora like Centos?

[Timothy Murphy-5]

I upgraded from CentOS-5.3 to CentOS-5.4
(and earlier from CentOS-5.2 to CentOS-5.3)
just by running "yum update".

Why can't I upgrade to Fedora-12 like that?
Is it just that the CentOS makers are cleverer...?

--
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[rahulsundaram]

On 11/07/2009 06:51 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>
> I upgraded from CentOS-5.3 to CentOS-5.4
> (and earlier from CentOS-5.2 to CentOS-5.3)
> just by running "yum update".
>
> Why can't I upgrade to Fedora-12 like that?
> Is it just that the CentOS makers are cleverer...?

CentOS is just a rebuild of Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Since there is no
point release of Fedora, you have to compare a upgrade from say CentOS
4.x to CentOS 5.x.

Other than that, I have continued to use yum (and other times using
preupgrade) to upgrade to new releases of Fedora and they have worked fine.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading

Rahul

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[Todd Zullinger]

Timothy Murphy wrote:
> I upgraded from CentOS-5.3 to CentOS-5.4
> (and earlier from CentOS-5.2 to CentOS-5.3)
> just by running "yum update".
>
> Why can't I upgrade to Fedora-12 like that?
> Is it just that the CentOS makers are cleverer...?

No.  When CentOS-6 is released, a yum update on a CentOS-5 box won't
update you to 6.  You will be able to use yum to update, but it won't
be a supported method, much like with Fedora.  There are folks here
who have updated from Fedora 1 all the way through Fedora 11 using
yum.  It's possible with a little effort, but it's not supported.

--
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Process and Procedure are the last hiding place of people without the
wit and wisdom to do their job properly.



--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[Itamar Reis Peixoto]

I am one guy

I am upgrading since fc1


now with f12



 There are folks here
> who have updated from Fedora 1 all the way through Fedora 11 using
> yum.  It's possible with a little effort, but it's not supported.


------------

Itamar Reis Peixoto

e-mail/msn/google talk/sip: itamar@...
skype: itamarjp
icq: 81053601
[phone]
[phone]

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[John Aldrich-2]

On Saturday 07 November 2009, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> I upgraded from CentOS-5.3 to CentOS-5.4
> (and earlier from CentOS-5.2 to CentOS-5.3)
> just by running "yum update".
>
> Why can't I upgrade to Fedora-12 like that?
> Is it just that the CentOS makers are cleverer...?
>
Actually, that's exactly how I upgraded to F11 from F10. Fedora noticed
that there was an updated version of Fedora available and asked if I wanted
to upgrade. I said sure, so it downloaded all the RPMs and upgraded me.

No more wipe and reload any more!

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[Timothy Murphy-5]

Rahul Sundaram wrote:

>> I upgraded from CentOS-5.3 to CentOS-5.4
>> (and earlier from CentOS-5.2 to CentOS-5.3)
>> just by running "yum update".
>>
>> Why can't I upgrade to Fedora-12 like that?
>> Is it just that the CentOS makers are cleverer...?
>
> CentOS is just a rebuild of Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Since there is no
> point release of Fedora, you have to compare a upgrade from say CentOS
> 4.x to CentOS 5.x.

Well, the change from CentOS-5.n to CentOS-5.n+1 seems to occur
about as often as Fedora-m to Fedora-m+1.
Hopefully, CentOS-6 will not come in my lifetime.
(I'm quite old.)

> Other than that, I have continued to use yum (and other times using
> preupgrade) to upgrade to new releases of Fedora and they have worked
> fine.

I was rather unsuccessful with preupgrade from Fedora-10 to Fedora-11;
I think it worked on 1 out of 4 machines.
It was much more successful (for me) with Fedora-9 to Fedora-10.

I'll try it with Fedora-12 but I'm not too hopeful ...



--
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[Timothy Murphy-5]

John Aldrich wrote:

>> I upgraded from CentOS-5.3 to CentOS-5.4
>> (and earlier from CentOS-5.2 to CentOS-5.3)
>> just by running "yum update".
>>
>> Why can't I upgrade to Fedora-12 like that?
>> Is it just that the CentOS makers are cleverer...?
>>
> Actually, that's exactly how I upgraded to F11 from F10. Fedora noticed
> that there was an updated version of Fedora available and asked if I
> wanted to upgrade. I said sure, so it downloaded all the RPMs and upgraded
> me.

What do you mean by "Fedora asked"?
Do you mean Yum?

--
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[Patrick O'Callaghan-2]

On Sat, 2009-11-07 at 09:22 -0500, John Aldrich wrote:

> On Saturday 07 November 2009, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> > I upgraded from CentOS-5.3 to CentOS-5.4
> > (and earlier from CentOS-5.2 to CentOS-5.3)
> > just by running "yum update".
> >
> > Why can't I upgrade to Fedora-12 like that?
> > Is it just that the CentOS makers are cleverer...?
> >
> Actually, that's exactly how I upgraded to F11 from F10. Fedora noticed
> that there was an updated version of Fedora available and asked if I wanted
> to upgrade. I said sure, so it downloaded all the RPMs and upgraded me.

Presumably you're talking about the Package Manager. yum on its own
isn't going to ask you if you want to upgrade Fedora.

poc

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[rahulsundaram]

On 11/07/2009 08:33 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote:

>
> Well, the change from CentOS-5.n to CentOS-5.n+1 seems to occur
> about as often as Fedora-m to Fedora-m+1.

That's because RHEL has a longer lifecyle. No surprise there.

> I was rather unsuccessful with preupgrade from Fedora-10 to Fedora-11;
> I think it worked on 1 out of 4 machines.
> It was much more successful (for me) with Fedora-9 to Fedora-10.

Did you file any bug reports?  Fedora has a shorter lifecycle, no point
updates and software changes far more often.  This naturally does mean
that you have to upgrade more often as well. If you are willing to spend
sometime testing and reporting bugs, it will help us resolve the issues.
There is really magic bullet to solve upgrade problems. We are getting
better at it however.

Rahul

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[John Aldrich-2]

On Saturday 07 November 2009, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>
> What do you mean by "Fedora asked"?
> Do you mean Yum?
>
Yes. Actually, I believe it was the "auto update" tool (which seems to not
work so well on my system... but running "yum update" a couple times a week
does the same thing! <G>)

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[rahulsundaram]

On 11/07/2009 08:39 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> On Sat, 2009-11-07 at 09:22 -0500, John Aldrich wrote:
>> On Saturday 07 November 2009, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>>> I upgraded from CentOS-5.3 to CentOS-5.4
>>> (and earlier from CentOS-5.2 to CentOS-5.3)
>>> just by running "yum update".
>>>
>>> Why can't I upgrade to Fedora-12 like that?
>>> Is it just that the CentOS makers are cleverer...?
>>>
>> Actually, that's exactly how I upgraded to F11 from F10. Fedora noticed
>> that there was an updated version of Fedora available and asked if I wanted
>> to upgrade. I said sure, so it downloaded all the RPMs and upgraded me.
>
> Presumably you're talking about the Package Manager. yum on its own
> isn't going to ask you if you want to upgrade Fedora.

Here it how this works:

When there is a new release of Fedora, GNOME PackageKit or specifically
gpk-update-icon which is the update notifier prompts you to upgrade with
a notification on your desktop

http://packagekit.org/img/gpk-distro-upgrade-notify.png

If you agree, in Fedora, it will call preupgrade to perform the actual
upgrade.  This works starting from Fedora 10 onwards.

Rahul

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[Timothy Murphy-5]

Rahul Sundaram wrote:

> When there is a new release of Fedora, GNOME PackageKit or specifically
> gpk-update-icon which is the update notifier prompts you to upgrade with
> a notification on your desktop
>
> http://packagekit.org/img/gpk-distro-upgrade-notify.png
>
> If you agree, in Fedora, it will call preupgrade to perform the actual
> upgrade.  This works starting from Fedora 10 onwards.

One problem with preupgrade for me is that it requires me
to have an ethernet connection (if I understand it correctly),
which is a bit of a nuisance with my laptop.
I don't see why I shouldn't use WiFi if I want to take the risk.

--
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[Patrick O'Callaghan-2]

On Sat, 2009-11-07 at 21:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

> On 11/07/2009 08:39 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Sat, 2009-11-07 at 09:22 -0500, John Aldrich wrote:
> >> On Saturday 07 November 2009, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> >>> I upgraded from CentOS-5.3 to CentOS-5.4
> >>> (and earlier from CentOS-5.2 to CentOS-5.3)
> >>> just by running "yum update".
> >>>
> >>> Why can't I upgrade to Fedora-12 like that?
> >>> Is it just that the CentOS makers are cleverer...?
> >>>
> >> Actually, that's exactly how I upgraded to F11 from F10. Fedora noticed
> >> that there was an updated version of Fedora available and asked if I wanted
> >> to upgrade. I said sure, so it downloaded all the RPMs and upgraded me.
> >
> > Presumably you're talking about the Package Manager. yum on its own
> > isn't going to ask you if you want to upgrade Fedora.
>
> Here it how this works:
>
> When there is a new release of Fedora, GNOME PackageKit or specifically
> gpk-update-icon which is the update notifier prompts you to upgrade with
> a notification on your desktop
>
> http://packagekit.org/img/gpk-distro-upgrade-notify.png
>
> If you agree, in Fedora, it will call preupgrade to perform the actual
> upgrade.  This works starting from Fedora 10 onwards.

That's fine. All I was trying to establish is that asking the question
isn't a function of yum as such, but of Package Kit, which uses yum to
do the actual upgrade. I can't be bothered with PK so I just use
preupgrade on my own (or download a DVD).

poc

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[Jonathan Ryshpan]

On Sat, 2009-11-07 at 20:45 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> ...
> Did you file any bug reports?  Fedora has a shorter lifecycle, no point
> updates and software changes far more often...

I'm not familiar with the terms "point update" and "point release",
which R.S. used in an earlier message.  What do they mean?

Thanks - jon




--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[Kevin J. Cummings]

On 11/07/2009 01:38 PM, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-11-07 at 20:45 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> ...
>> Did you file any bug reports?  Fedora has a shorter lifecycle, no point
>> updates and software changes far more often...
>
> I'm not familiar with the terms "point update" and "point release",
> which R.S. used in an earlier message.  What do they mean?

They refer to an update or release of a number which contains a non-zero
after the decimal point.  An update from, say, 5.4 to 5.5 would be a
point update, whereas an update from 5.4 to 6.0 would not.

5.5 would be a point release.  6.0 would not.

> Thanks - jon

--
Kevin J. Cummings
kjchome@...
cummings@...
cummings@...
Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org)

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[Beartooth Comcast]

On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 13:15:09 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
 
> That's fine. All I was trying to establish is that asking the question
> isn't a function of yum as such, but of Package Kit, which uses yum to
> do the actual upgrade. I can't be bothered with PK so I just use
> preupgrade on my own (or download a DVD).

        There is an intermediate choice. You can disable the automatic
checking, put the launcher for gpk-update-viewer on a panel, and click
that at your convenience; I do, more or less daily.

        Then, when a new release has been out for a week or so, I use
preupgrade -- at *my* convenience, just like the updates.

        It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that gpk-update-viewer
also has an upgrade function; being comfortable with my compromise, I
haven't bothered to look.

--
Beartooth Staffwright, Neo-Redneck Not Quite Clueless Power User
I have precious (very precious!) little idea where up is.


--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[steve-391]

On 11/07/2009 06:51 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>
> I upgraded from CentOS-5.3 to CentOS-5.4
> (and earlier from CentOS-5.2 to CentOS-5.3)
> just by running "yum update".
>
> Why can't I upgrade to Fedora-12 like that?
> Is it just that the CentOS makers are cleverer...?
>
While others have pointed out the similarity between upgrading fedora and
upgrading CentOS releases (as opposed to upgrading CentOS point releases), allow
me to defend fedora against the last comment that you made (maybe in jest, but
just the same :))

a. The number of packages in Fedora are larger than in CentOS (I don't know
absolute numbers but I'm willing to bet fedora has at least twice the number of
packages as CentOS does). This implies that theoretically fedora has at least
twice the number of possible points of failure during an upgrade -- of course
with good packaging polices this is contained and one barely ever notices the
differences between CentOS and Fedora upgrades.

b. One of the things Fedora aims for, is to include new technology and innovate
as early as possible. This necessarily implies that some things might change
drastically between releases. However, the effect of this too is contained by
proper packaging policies.

c. Fedora is what Red Hat decides to base it's RHEL platform upon. RHEL is what
CentOS distributes (after cleaning out the legal hassles to allow them to do so,
for instance Red Hat trademarks). So, basically the 'cleverer' CentOS makers are
building on top of the work of the Fedora makers, /including/ the tests and bugs
coming out of the Fedora community as well as Red Hat's QA team.

d. RHEL (and so also CentOS) is designed to be run on production systems, so
upgrades (using either yum upgrade or otherwise), undergo more rigorous testing
compared to Fedora (which relies on people like us to test at least the beta
releases and file bugs, if we expect upgrades to just work).

Hope that clarifies a few things about the cleverness of the Fedora 'community'. :)

cheers,
- steve

--
random non tech spiel: http://lonetwin.blogspot.com/
tech randomness: http://lonehacks.blogspot.com/
what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[Craig White-6]

On Sun, 2009-11-08 at 12:29 +0530, steve wrote:

> On 11/07/2009 06:51 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> >
> > I upgraded from CentOS-5.3 to CentOS-5.4
> > (and earlier from CentOS-5.2 to CentOS-5.3)
> > just by running "yum update".
> >
> > Why can't I upgrade to Fedora-12 like that?
> > Is it just that the CentOS makers are cleverer...?
> >
> While others have pointed out the similarity between upgrading fedora and
> upgrading CentOS releases (as opposed to upgrading CentOS point releases), allow
> me to defend fedora against the last comment that you made (maybe in jest, but
> just the same :))
>
> a. The number of packages in Fedora are larger than in CentOS (I don't know
> absolute numbers but I'm willing to bet fedora has at least twice the number of
> packages as CentOS does). This implies that theoretically fedora has at least
> twice the number of possible points of failure during an upgrade -- of course
> with good packaging polices this is contained and one barely ever notices the
> differences between CentOS and Fedora upgrades.
>
> b. One of the things Fedora aims for, is to include new technology and innovate
> as early as possible. This necessarily implies that some things might change
> drastically between releases. However, the effect of this too is contained by
> proper packaging policies.
>
> c. Fedora is what Red Hat decides to base it's RHEL platform upon. RHEL is what
> CentOS distributes (after cleaning out the legal hassles to allow them to do so,
> for instance Red Hat trademarks). So, basically the 'cleverer' CentOS makers are
> building on top of the work of the Fedora makers, /including/ the tests and bugs
> coming out of the Fedora community as well as Red Hat's QA team.
>
> d. RHEL (and so also CentOS) is designed to be run on production systems, so
> upgrades (using either yum upgrade or otherwise), undergo more rigorous testing
> compared to Fedora (which relies on people like us to test at least the beta
> releases and file bugs, if we expect upgrades to just work).
>
> Hope that clarifies a few things about the cleverness of the Fedora 'community'. :)

----
actually, I think this doesn't do much for clarifying things.

RHEL (and CentOS since it is essentially a repackage of RHEL) is
designed to be long term releases...approximately 8 years with the first
5 years being updates and the last 3 being security updates. The 'point'
releases of RHEL (and CentOS) are mostly implementations for newer
hardware but the commitment is to maintain ABI throughout the release to
prevent breakage of currently running configurations. The kernel on an
RHEL release is consistent throughout the release (i.e. RHEL or CentOS 4
is 2.6.9-X and RHEL 5 is 2.6.18-X). The updates are largely incremental.

Fedora can have vast changes of kernels, glibc and ABI from release to
release and is intended to be the development edge for Linux rather than
the stable release philosophy of RHEL. They are vastly different
philosophies.

Thus there isn't any particular cleverness of either RHEL (or CentOS)
vs. Fedora but rather they are by intent serving different functions. If
you want a stable server that requires less maintenance and less
overwhelming upgrades, RHEL (or CentOS) are clearly a better choice. If
you want the latest features, i.e. typically usage on users desktops,
Fedora provides that. For example, RHEL 5 (and CentOS 5) still use
openoffice.org 2.3.x where Fedora uses openoffice.org 3.1.x.

Craig


--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

[rahulsundaram]

On 11/07/2009 09:41 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote:

> Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>
>> When there is a new release of Fedora, GNOME PackageKit or specifically
>> gpk-update-icon which is the update notifier prompts you to upgrade with
>> a notification on your desktop
>>
>> http://packagekit.org/img/gpk-distro-upgrade-notify.png
>>
>> If you agree, in Fedora, it will call preupgrade to perform the actual
>> upgrade.  This works starting from Fedora 10 onwards.
>
> One problem with preupgrade for me is that it requires me
> to have an ethernet connection (if I understand it correctly),
> which is a bit of a nuisance with my laptop.
> I don't see why I shouldn't use WiFi if I want to take the risk.

Preupgrade can just download packages over any active network
connection. The actual upgrade is done via Anaconda. Don't see a problem.

Rahul

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@...
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines