Nabble - WikiNews General

Office hours Thursday, December 17

2009-12-15T15:26:33Z

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This Thursday's office hours will feature Sara Crouse, the
Wikimedia Foundation's Head of Partnerships and Foundation Relations.
Sara's biography is available at
<http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/User:Sara_Crouse>.

Office hours on Thursday are from 1700 to 1800 UTC (9:00 AM - 10:00 AM
PST). *Please note: This will be the last office hours of 2009. Office
hours will start back after the New Years!*

If you do not have an IRC client, there are two ways you can come chat
using a web browser: First is using the Wikizine chat gateway at
<http://chatwikizine.memebot.com/cgi-bin/cgiirc/irc.cgi>. Type a
nickname, select irc.freenode.net from the top menu and
#wikimedia-office from the following menu, then login to join.

Also, you can access Freenode by going to http://webchat.freenode.net/,
typing in the nickname of your choice and choosing wikimedia-office as
the channel. You may be prompted to click through a security warning.
It should be all right.

Please feel free to forward (and translate!) this email to any other
relevant email lists you happen to be on.

- --
Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: Strategy Question of the Week: Dec 14

2009-12-15T13:43:32Z

On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 14:08 -0600, Philippe Beaudette wrote:

> http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Question_of_the_week
>
>
> Last week's Question of the week focused on how Wikimedia could change
> its technology to enable a friendlier and more welcoming environment.
> Certainly new technology and increasing the friendliness is one tactic
> that Wikipedia might use to increase participation. The following
> graph shows that there are some key countries with a large online
> populations where Wikipedia still has significant room to increase the
> number of users and active participants. Specifically, in China,
> Brazil, France, South Korea, Turkey and Indonesia, Wikipedia.org
> ranking is below 10. What tactics do you think could be used to
> increase participation in a specific country?

Sorry to be blunt but, Why is this question so Wikipedia-centric? Other
projects have proved ideal testing grounds for usability and such.

>
>
> <Graph and link to participate are
> at http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Question_of_the_week>
> ____________________
> Philippe Beaudette
> Facilitator, Strategy Project
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
>
> philippe@...
>
>
> mobile: 918 200-WIKI (9454)
>
> Imagine a world in which every human being can freely share in
> the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> Wikinews-l@...
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>
Wikinewsie.org

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Strategy Question of the Week: Dec 14

2009-12-15T12:08:00Z

http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Question_of_the_week

Last week's Question of the week focused on how Wikimedia could change its technology to enable a friendlier and more welcoming environment. Certainly new technology and increasing the friendliness is one tactic that Wikipedia might use to increase participation. The following graph shows that there are some key countries with a large online populations where Wikipedia still has significant room to increase the number of users and active participants. Specifically, in China, Brazil, France, South Korea, Turkey and Indonesia, Wikipedia.org ranking is below 10. What tactics do you think could be used to increase participation in a specific country?

____________________

Philippe Beaudette

Facilitator, Strategy Project
Wikimedia Foundation

philippe@...

mobile: 918 200-WIKI (9454)

Imagine a world in which every human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Strategic Planning Office Hours

2009-12-14T10:34:40Z

The next strategic planning office hours are Tuesday from 20:00-21:00 UTC (12-1PM PST, 3-4PM EST).

Office hours are on #wikimedia-strategy on freenode. You can access the chat by going to https://webchat.freenode.net/ and filling in a username and the channel name (#wikimedia-strategy). You may be prompted to click through a security warning. It's fine. Another option is http://chat.wikizine.org. You can also, of course, use your favorite IRC chat client.

See you there!

____________________

Philippe Beaudette

Facilitator, Strategy Project
Wikimedia Foundation

philippe@...

mobile: 918 200-WIKI (9454)

Imagine a world in which every human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: Newstrust.net

2009-12-13T11:24:55Z

Thanks, Brian!

Sounds like the best thing we could do to serve your needs (and those of many other sites) would be to offer an API for NewsTrust.

We will put this on our to-do list for 2010, and see if we can schedule it early next year.

For now, let's focus on the services we already offer, and build our relationship from there. We have a lot on our plate in the next few weeks, so this will probably not be in a position to start new technology development on this until January.

I really appreciate your excellent recommendations, and will definitely want to involve you in our next steps for the API.

We will also get back to you by the end of next week about a co-promotion of the Wikinews contest at the end of January.

Thanks again, and speak with you soon!

Fabrice

On Dec 12, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Brian McNeil wrote:

> [Erik Moeller dropped from CC list; no response to any emails over past
> week on these issues.]
>
> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 18:39 -0800, Fabrice Florin wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I have added our web engineer Subbu Sastry to this thread, as he would know whether or not it's feasible for us to give you this data.
>
> Hi Subbu!
>
> Wikinews has a few techies who hack things together for the site.
> Bawolff specialises in Javascript with unusual exception errors
> containing creative spelling mistakes. I'm going to suggest one of his
> widgets for NewsTrust (later), I think you and Fabrice will both quite
> like it.
>
> We've also Jon (ShakataGaNai) who helps with a number of other coding
> things. Some less-noticeable people also help with other bits and
> pieces.
>
> Personally I've little experience with developing server-side things
> like a web API; but, does 20+ years as a systems analyst help? Mostly
> working on Billing Systems and Enterprise Resource Planning, I did do
> some XML-spewing designs for that. I'd probably have no problems with
> looking at your database structures and identifying the information I
> think most useful to expose in an API. Happy to drop Fabrice and some of
> the other CC'd people from that discussion. If there's a need for a
> non-disclosure agreement to get at such data it won't be the first time
> I've signed one.
>
>> We don't yet have a full API, though our widgets function a bit like an API.
>
>> One new widget we have been considering is a rating widget which a third-party could put on their site, to show the NT story rating for a particular story on that site. It might also be possible to show the source rating we have for that source, if known. We hadn't planned on doing this right away, but it's in the queue of things we would consider doing, if requested by one of our partners.
>
> I'd say the advantage of an API is the scripts for your widgets should
> be greatly simplified, and you can freely license examples of them.
>
> The drawback is you'll want to do various logs and analyses on API usage
> so you can block any particularly abusive sites; just like web spiders
> that don't respect robots.txt end up blocked everywhere except SEO
> linkbuilder sites.
>
>> Your request seems a bit different, if I understand it correctly: you would want to display the ratings for sources cited by your articles, is that right? if that's the case, it may be sufficient for us to get just the URL. We would then look up that URL in our DB, and if we have it on file, that would allow us to provide the story rating and number of reviews. We may also be able to provide the source rating and number of reviews for the source associated with that story at the same time. Lastly, it may be possible to provide the source rating and reviews for the source typically associated with that domain name, though this is a risky proposition, because often a story featured on a site is not really from that site. So it would be best to ask for source ratings by specifying a source name, but you would need to request the exact name we use for that source, which could be prone to human error.
>
> Yes. At the moment there's a significant percentage of Wikinews articles
> are what we call "synthesis" articles. They contain no original
> research, but are constructed through using multiple independent sources
> which must be listed at the foot of the article.
>
> Within the Wikicode this looks as follows:
>
> *{{source|url=http://news.example.com/articleurl
> |title=Name of story, as given by publisher
> |author=the article's author(s), if specified by the publisher
> |pub=The name of the publisher. This *should* be as listed on Wikipedia
> |date=Monthname daynumber, year - as specified by the publisher}}
>
> This was one point another contributor raised off-list; we currently
> list all used sources with no regard to their reliability or reputation.
> That can see Fox News listed and "supposedly" on a par with the BBC,
> Reuters, or PBS. Your own critique of Iain's article on the Garuda
> pilot's conviction noted we'd not had contact with some key primary
> sources; as independents, with zero financial backing for our reporting
> activities, getting that can be challenging. International phone calls
> can soon mount up if you're looking for comment from the other side of
> the globe. Personally, I've sunk between €500-€1,000 into setting up our
> wikinewsie.org domain, mostly used so we're not emailing people with
> addresses like "fluffykitteh1024@...".
>
>> In any case, we should probably prioritize the tasks you are considering, so we know which is most important to you from an editorial standpoint.
>
> I don't want to end up pushing NewsTrust to develop something that would
> have limited use outside that of Wikinews. However, I do think that the
> elimination of cross-server scripting vulnerabilities would be a big
> selling point for a published API.
>
>> Is it more important for you to have your own articles display a story rating? or to give a rating to the third-party articles cited as sources for your own articles?
>
> Both, I think. But, that's the beauty of doing it with an API; anyone
> could do either.
>
>> If it's the latter, how often would you need this information to be updated? If it's an old story, its story rating is unlikely to change much after a month or two after its release, so maybe you could settle for a one-time rating -- the source rating is more likely to change over time, but not by much. So maybe a once-a-month or less frequent update might be fine.
>
> Bawolff's input on this suggests the volume of requests to NewsTrust
> would naturally tail off as articles age. Thus:
>
> * Someone request a Wikinews article.
> * Javascript on Wikinews activates, parses required parameters from the
> source template, and sends them to our back end (the ToolServer).
> * If less than 10-15 minutes since NewsTrust last queried, back end
> returns cached data.
> * Else the back end submits a new request
> * If NewsTrust returns updated data (instead of an "unchanged" response)
> the back end updates its stats and sends that on to the reader via the
> Javascript invoked above
>
>> Either way, we would need to figure out how important all this is to you, and if we can squeeze in some simple technology that addresses most of your needs.
>
> As you've mentioned, and one of the other headaches we have, something
> from AP, Reuters, or AFP can end up on dozens - if not hundreds - of
> newspaper sites. Wikinews tends to push for people to go back to the
> wire site or, say, Google News' hosting of these. We also push for the
> wire to be cited as the author (eg Reuters); that *might* help NewsTrust
> consolidate the different URLs because the article title is generally
> only changed if the site publishing it applies a house style for
> capitalisation.
>
> If, perhaps as a more long-term goal for NewsTrust, you were getting
> that data you could tie up all the different URLs for a Reuters or AP
> story, group under a unique article identifier, and expose that in the
> API so, once you've queried with a URL, the API asks for future requests
> to use a much shorter identifier.
>
>> But this is a good conversation to have, and we appreciate your thinking about these creative uses of NewsTrust for your site.
>
> I did warn you Wikinewsies will steal anything that isn't nailed down
> and watched by armed guards. :-P
>
> Oh, and the widget I said I'd suggest:
>
> http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Gadget-dictionaryLookupHover.js
>
> Subbu will likely follow this most quickly; it's a freely licensed piece
> of Javascript that uses Wiktionary (another WMF project) to do a
> dictionary lookup of any work a user double clicks on.
>
> It is multilingual, so if NewsTrust account holders could set a "Mother
> tongue" option they wouldn't get definitions in an English default, but
> their chosen language. (The gadget looks up "example" in Wiktionary,
> tracks down the link to the definition in "Mother tongue", and displays
> it in a small pop-up window.)
>
> If you'd like to try it out on Wikinews, sign up for an account, log in,
> select your preferences at the top of the page, go to the gadgets tab,
> and look for and enable Wiktionary Hover.
>
> Here endeth another shameless plug for Bawolff's Javascript-fu.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
> Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
> of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
>
>
>
> --
> Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
> Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
> of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
> * Problems replying? Forward bounces to brianmc@... to raise with Godaddy Hosting.
>

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Re: Newstrust.net

2009-12-12T20:29:12Z

[Erik Moeller dropped from CC list; no response to any emails over past
week on these issues.]

On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 18:39 -0800, Fabrice Florin wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I have added our web engineer Subbu Sastry to this thread, as he would know whether or not it's feasible for us to give you this data.

Hi Subbu!

Wikinews has a few techies who hack things together for the site.
Bawolff specialises in Javascript with unusual exception errors
containing creative spelling mistakes. I'm going to suggest one of his
widgets for NewsTrust (later), I think you and Fabrice will both quite
like it.

We've also Jon (ShakataGaNai) who helps with a number of other coding
things. Some less-noticeable people also help with other bits and
pieces.

Personally I've little experience with developing server-side things
like a web API; but, does 20+ years as a systems analyst help? Mostly
working on Billing Systems and Enterprise Resource Planning, I did do
some XML-spewing designs for that. I'd probably have no problems with
looking at your database structures and identifying the information I
think most useful to expose in an API. Happy to drop Fabrice and some of
the other CC'd people from that discussion. If there's a need for a
non-disclosure agreement to get at such data it won't be the first time
I've signed one.

> We don't yet have a full API, though our widgets function a bit like an API.

> One new widget we have been considering is a rating widget which a third-party could put on their site, to show the NT story rating for a particular story on that site. It might also be possible to show the source rating we have for that source, if known. We hadn't planned on doing this right away, but it's in the queue of things we would consider doing, if requested by one of our partners.

I'd say the advantage of an API is the scripts for your widgets should
be greatly simplified, and you can freely license examples of them.

The drawback is you'll want to do various logs and analyses on API usage
so you can block any particularly abusive sites; just like web spiders
that don't respect robots.txt end up blocked everywhere except SEO
linkbuilder sites.

> Your request seems a bit different, if I understand it correctly: you would want to display the ratings for sources cited by your articles, is that right? if that's the case, it may be sufficient for us to get just the URL. We would then look up that URL in our DB, and if we have it on file, that would allow us to provide the story rating and number of reviews. We may also be able to provide the source rating and number of reviews for the source associated with that story at the same time. Lastly, it may be possible to provide the source rating and reviews for the source typically associated with that domain name, though this is a risky proposition, because often a story featured on a site is not really from that site. So it would be best to ask for source ratings by specifying a source name, but you would need to request the exact name we use for that source, which could be prone to human error.

Yes. At the moment there's a significant percentage of Wikinews articles
are what we call "synthesis" articles. They contain no original
research, but are constructed through using multiple independent sources
which must be listed at the foot of the article.

Within the Wikicode this looks as follows:

*{{source|url=http://news.example.com/articleurl
|title=Name of story, as given by publisher
|author=the article's author(s), if specified by the publisher
|pub=The name of the publisher. This *should* be as listed on Wikipedia
|date=Monthname daynumber, year - as specified by the publisher}}

This was one point another contributor raised off-list; we currently
list all used sources with no regard to their reliability or reputation.
That can see Fox News listed and "supposedly" on a par with the BBC,
Reuters, or PBS. Your own critique of Iain's article on the Garuda
pilot's conviction noted we'd not had contact with some key primary
sources; as independents, with zero financial backing for our reporting
activities, getting that can be challenging. International phone calls
can soon mount up if you're looking for comment from the other side of
the globe. Personally, I've sunk between €500-€1,000 into setting up our
wikinewsie.org domain, mostly used so we're not emailing people with
addresses like "fluffykitteh1024@...".

> In any case, we should probably prioritize the tasks you are considering, so we know which is most important to you from an editorial standpoint.

I don't want to end up pushing NewsTrust to develop something that would
have limited use outside that of Wikinews. However, I do think that the
elimination of cross-server scripting vulnerabilities would be a big
selling point for a published API.

> Is it more important for you to have your own articles display a story rating? or to give a rating to the third-party articles cited as sources for your own articles?

Both, I think. But, that's the beauty of doing it with an API; anyone
could do either.

> If it's the latter, how often would you need this information to be updated? If it's an old story, its story rating is unlikely to change much after a month or two after its release, so maybe you could settle for a one-time rating -- the source rating is more likely to change over time, but not by much. So maybe a once-a-month or less frequent update might be fine.

Bawolff's input on this suggests the volume of requests to NewsTrust
would naturally tail off as articles age. Thus:

* Someone request a Wikinews article.
* Javascript on Wikinews activates, parses required parameters from the
source template, and sends them to our back end (the ToolServer).
* If less than 10-15 minutes since NewsTrust last queried, back end
returns cached data.
* Else the back end submits a new request
* If NewsTrust returns updated data (instead of an "unchanged" response)
the back end updates its stats and sends that on to the reader via the
Javascript invoked above

> Either way, we would need to figure out how important all this is to you, and if we can squeeze in some simple technology that addresses most of your needs.

As you've mentioned, and one of the other headaches we have, something
from AP, Reuters, or AFP can end up on dozens - if not hundreds - of
newspaper sites. Wikinews tends to push for people to go back to the
wire site or, say, Google News' hosting of these. We also push for the
wire to be cited as the author (eg Reuters); that *might* help NewsTrust
consolidate the different URLs because the article title is generally
only changed if the site publishing it applies a house style for
capitalisation.

If, perhaps as a more long-term goal for NewsTrust, you were getting
that data you could tie up all the different URLs for a Reuters or AP
story, group under a unique article identifier, and expose that in the
API so, once you've queried with a URL, the API asks for future requests
to use a much shorter identifier.

> But this is a good conversation to have, and we appreciate your thinking about these creative uses of NewsTrust for your site.

I did warn you Wikinewsies will steal anything that isn't nailed down
and watched by armed guards. :-P

Oh, and the widget I said I'd suggest:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Gadget-dictionaryLookupHover.js

Subbu will likely follow this most quickly; it's a freely licensed piece
of Javascript that uses Wiktionary (another WMF project) to do a
dictionary lookup of any work a user double clicks on.

It is multilingual, so if NewsTrust account holders could set a "Mother
tongue" option they wouldn't get definitions in an English default, but
their chosen language. (The gadget looks up "example" in Wiktionary,
tracks down the link to the definition in "Mother tongue", and displays
it in a small pop-up window.)

If you'd like to try it out on Wikinews, sign up for an account, log in,
select your preferences at the top of the page, go to the gadgets tab,
and look for and enable Wiktionary Hover.

Here endeth another shameless plug for Bawolff's Javascript-fu.

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.

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Re: Newstrust.net

2009-12-12T18:39:48Z

Hi guys,

I have added our web engineer Subbu Sastry to this thread, as he would know whether or not it's feasible for us to give you this data.

We don't yet have a full API, though our widgets function a bit like an API.

One new widget we have been considering is a rating widget which a third-party could put on their site, to show the NT story rating for a particular story on that site. It might also be possible to show the source rating we have for that source, if known. We hadn't planned on doing this right away, but it's in the queue of things we would consider doing, if requested by one of our partners.

Your request seems a bit different, if I understand it correctly: you would want to display the ratings for sources cited by your articles, is that right? if that's the case, it may be sufficient for us to get just the URL. We would then look up that URL in our DB, and if we have it on file, that would allow us to provide the story rating and number of reviews. We may also be able to provide the source rating and number of reviews for the source associated with that story at the same time. Lastly, it may be possible to provide the source rating and reviews for the source typically associated with that domain name, though this is a risky proposition, because often a story featured on a site is not really from that site. So it would be best to ask for source ratings by specifying a source name, but you would need to request the exact name we use for that source, which could be prone to human error.

In any case, we should probably prioritize the tasks you are considering, so we know which is most important to you from an editorial standpoint.

Is it more important for you to have your own articles display a story rating? or to give a rating to the third-party articles cited as sources for your own articles?

If it's the latter, how often would you need this information to be updated? If it's an old story, its story rating is unlikely to change much after a month or two after its release, so maybe you could settle for a one-time rating -- the source rating is more likely to change over time, but not by much. So maybe a once-a-month or less frequent update might be fine.

Either way, we would need to figure out how important all this is to you, and if we can squeeze in some simple technology that addresses most of your needs.

But this is a good conversation to have, and we appreciate your thinking about these creative uses of NewsTrust for your site.

Thanks again,

Fabrice

On Dec 12, 2009, at 6:02 PM, bawolff wrote:

> Yes, it can detect the categories (or at least be made to do so. JS
> looks at categories on article, maps them to category scheme for news
> trust, and dynamically modifies url of button). I'll try to add that
> some point in the near future.
>
> Ideally if we did use the toolserver as an intermediary, it'd cache
> responses, so not to overload newstrust (and script on wikinews end
> would fail gracefully if toolserver has downtime).
> --
> - Bawolff
> Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
> million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Brian McNeil
> <brian.mcneil@...> wrote:
>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 18:27 -0700, bawolff wrote:
>>> Note, I'm 99% sure that pulling the rating data off NewsTrust using
>>> clientside js would be in violation of the wmf privacy policy (99% as
>>> i have not actually read the privacy policy...). It also represents
>>> somewhat of a security risk (the usual method of doing such things is
>>> to execute foreign javascript that inserts rating data and/or puts
>>> data in a global variable. which is generally something we try to
>>> avoid, as executing arbitrary code on the client that is not under our
>>> direct control = bad thing in my mind). With that being said, that
>>> would probably be ok as a gadget, but not ok as enabled for everyone.
>>>
>>> However, if we were to do this, i think a better approach would be to
>>> get someone with a toolserver account to create a tool that acts as
>>> intermediatery. That way, only the toolserver is in the position to
>>> potentially collect user data.
>>>
>>> It'd go like this: Client loads page, page asks toolserver what rating
>>> of source is, toolserver asks newstrust (possibly caching results).
>>>
>>> I assume that'd take care of privacy issues
>>
>> I do worry how much work that would impose on NewsTrust. There would
>> need to be some sort of API on their end to serve requests up with
>> needed data.
>>
>> It would also make having a "mission critical" Toolserver box essential.
>> I know how flaky the toolserve has historically been. We can't rely on
>> what's there for stuff appearing in published main namespace content.
>>
>> In any case, we'd need to be sending the following information to
>> NewsTrust from the Toolserver:
>>
>> article URL
>> source name
>> if an initial request, or periodic polling
>>
>> It'd need to return
>>
>> any rating they have for the article
>> an indicator there rating is for the article
>> the number of reviews for the article
>> any rating they have for the source
>> the number of reviews for the source
>>
>> If a periodic polling, NewsTrust could return some sort of "no change"
>> indicator.
>>
>> This would be flexible enough that Wikinews could collect the
>> information on our own articles and stay within the privacy policy and
>> the WMF techies paranoia about cross-site scripting attacks.
>>
>> For us using the NewsTrust review widget in the {{social bookmarks}}
>> template Bawolff, is there any way we can pick out best-guess categories
>> when someone submits a story? As I said, the "basic" submission from
>> where we've got the code fails until you complete those details.
>>
>> --
>> Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
>> Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
>> of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
>>

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Re: Newstrust.net

2009-12-12T18:39:42Z

[Refactored because top-posting is evil.]

> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Brian McNeil wrote:

> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 18:27 -0700, bawolff wrote:

> >> It'd go like this: Client loads page, page asks toolserver what
> >> rating
> >> of source is, toolserver asks newstrust (possibly caching results).

Reminder: I'm wanting the url parameter and publisher name sent to
NewsTrust. Ideally Wikinews is displaying the sourced-from article's
rating. If they don't have one, or a very small number of reviews, it
falls back to the publisher's more general rating. We do want to pick
out where a normally good publisher spits out a dud.

> >> I assume that'd take care of privacy issues
> >
> > I do worry how much work that would impose on NewsTrust. There would
> > need to be some sort of API on their end to serve requests up with
> > needed data.
> >
> > It would also make having a "mission critical" Toolserver box essential.
> > I know how flaky the toolserve has historically been. We can't rely on
> > what's there for stuff appearing in published main namespace content.
> >
> > In any case, we'd need to be sending the following information to
> > NewsTrust from the Toolserver:
> >
> > article URL
> > source name
> > if an initial request, or periodic polling
> >
> > It'd need to return
> >
> > any rating they have for the article
> > an indicator there rating is for the article
> > the number of reviews for the article
> > any rating they have for the source
> > the number of reviews for the source
> >
> > If a periodic polling, NewsTrust could return some sort of "no change"
> > indicator.
> >
> > This would be flexible enough that Wikinews could collect the
> > information on our own articles and stay within the privacy policy and
> > the WMF techies paranoia about cross-site scripting attacks.

> Ideally if we did use the toolserver as an intermediary, it'd cache
> responses, so not to overload newstrust (and script on wikinews end
> would fail gracefully if toolserver has downtime).

I'm factoring in an "unchanged" response instead of a large blob of XML.
This way we can minimise the load put on NewsTrust and keep the data
current. I don't want too long a delay between someone reviewing an
article on NewsTrust and that being reflected anywhere the data is
displayed on Wikinews. It encourages readers both to look at these
things on NewsTrust *and* to check Wikinews articles more than once.

A last point I'd be really keen to go over with Kul in the office is how
the Foundation itself, as opposed to a semi-independent project effort,
could partner with NewsTrust. Few points on that:

The Wikinews logo is a registered mark. NewsTrust could use it under
fair-use provisions but an actual in-writing agreement would be far, far
better - and more *transparent*.

The Foundation has, as far as I know, done a few select deals with the
Wikipedia logo. If I recall correctly, one of the Spanish ISPs has a
deal to do a portal into Wikipedia content. I think that would involve
private data sharing. Can a similar deal be drawn up with NewsWire? Is
it, perhaps, just as simple as specific clauses in NewsTrust's privacy
policy and terms of use?

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
* Problems replying? Forward bounces to brianmc@... to raise with Godaddy Hosting.

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Re: Newstrust.net

2009-12-12T18:02:36Z

Yes, it can detect the categories (or at least be made to do so. JS
looks at categories on article, maps them to category scheme for news
trust, and dynamically modifies url of button). I'll try to add that
some point in the near future.

Ideally if we did use the toolserver as an intermediary, it'd cache
responses, so not to overload newstrust (and script on wikinews end
would fail gracefully if toolserver has downtime).
--
- Bawolff
Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Brian McNeil
<brian.mcneil@...> wrote:

> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 18:27 -0700, bawolff wrote:
>> Note, I'm 99% sure that pulling the rating data off NewsTrust using
>> clientside js would be in violation of the wmf privacy policy (99% as
>> i have not actually read the privacy policy...). It also represents
>> somewhat of a security risk (the usual method of doing such things is
>> to execute foreign javascript that inserts rating data and/or puts
>> data in a global variable. which is generally something we try to
>> avoid, as executing arbitrary code on the client that is not under our
>> direct control = bad thing in my mind). With that being said, that
>> would probably be ok as a gadget, but not ok as enabled for everyone.
>>
>> However, if we were to do this, i think a better approach would be to
>> get someone with a toolserver account to create a tool that acts as
>> intermediatery. That way, only the toolserver is in the position to
>> potentially collect user data.
>>
>> It'd go like this: Client loads page, page asks toolserver what rating
>> of source is, toolserver asks newstrust (possibly caching results).
>>
>> I assume that'd take care of privacy issues
>
> I do worry how much work that would impose on NewsTrust. There would
> need to be some sort of API on their end to serve requests up with
> needed data.
>
> It would also make having a "mission critical" Toolserver box essential.
> I know how flaky the toolserve has historically been. We can't rely on
> what's there for stuff appearing in published main namespace content.
>
> In any case, we'd need to be sending the following information to
> NewsTrust from the Toolserver:
>
> article URL
> source name
> if an initial request, or periodic polling
>
> It'd need to return
>
> any rating they have for the article
> an indicator there rating is for the article
> the number of reviews for the article
> any rating they have for the source
> the number of reviews for the source
>
> If a periodic polling, NewsTrust could return some sort of "no change"
> indicator.
>
> This would be flexible enough that Wikinews could collect the
> information on our own articles and stay within the privacy policy and
> the WMF techies paranoia about cross-site scripting attacks.
>
> For us using the NewsTrust review widget in the {{social bookmarks}}
> template Bawolff, is there any way we can pick out best-guess categories
> when someone submits a story? As I said, the "basic" submission from
> where we've got the code fails until you complete those details.
>
> --
> Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
> Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
> of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
>

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Re: Newstrust.net

2009-12-12T17:50:28Z

On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 18:27 -0700, bawolff wrote:

> Note, I'm 99% sure that pulling the rating data off NewsTrust using
> clientside js would be in violation of the wmf privacy policy (99% as
> i have not actually read the privacy policy...). It also represents
> somewhat of a security risk (the usual method of doing such things is
> to execute foreign javascript that inserts rating data and/or puts
> data in a global variable. which is generally something we try to
> avoid, as executing arbitrary code on the client that is not under our
> direct control = bad thing in my mind). With that being said, that
> would probably be ok as a gadget, but not ok as enabled for everyone.
>
> However, if we were to do this, i think a better approach would be to
> get someone with a toolserver account to create a tool that acts as
> intermediatery. That way, only the toolserver is in the position to
> potentially collect user data.
>
> It'd go like this: Client loads page, page asks toolserver what rating
> of source is, toolserver asks newstrust (possibly caching results).
>
> I assume that'd take care of privacy issues

I do worry how much work that would impose on NewsTrust. There would
need to be some sort of API on their end to serve requests up with
needed data.

It would also make having a "mission critical" Toolserver box essential.
I know how flaky the toolserve has historically been. We can't rely on
what's there for stuff appearing in published main namespace content.

In any case, we'd need to be sending the following information to
NewsTrust from the Toolserver:

article URL
source name
if an initial request, or periodic polling

It'd need to return

any rating they have for the article
an indicator there rating is for the article
the number of reviews for the article
any rating they have for the source
the number of reviews for the source

If a periodic polling, NewsTrust could return some sort of "no change"
indicator.

This would be flexible enough that Wikinews could collect the
information on our own articles and stay within the privacy policy and
the WMF techies paranoia about cross-site scripting attacks.

For us using the NewsTrust review widget in the {{social bookmarks}}
template Bawolff, is there any way we can pick out best-guess categories
when someone submits a story? As I said, the "basic" submission from
where we've got the code fails until you complete those details.

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.

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Re: Newstrust.net

2009-12-12T17:27:12Z

Note, I'm 99% sure that pulling the rating data off NewsTrust using
clientside js would be in violation of the wmf privacy policy (99% as
i have not actually read the privacy policy...). It also represents
somewhat of a security risk (the usual method of doing such things is
to execute foreign javascript that inserts rating data and/or puts
data in a global variable. which is generally something we try to
avoid, as executing arbitrary code on the client that is not under our
direct control = bad thing in my mind). With that being said, that
would probably be ok as a gadget, but not ok as enabled for everyone.

However, if we were to do this, i think a better approach would be to
get someone with a toolserver account to create a tool that acts as
intermediatery. That way, only the toolserver is in the position to
potentially collect user data.

It'd go like this: Client loads page, page asks toolserver what rating
of source is, toolserver asks newstrust (possibly caching results).

I assume that'd take care of privacy issues
--
- Bawolff
Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Brian McNeil
<brian.mcneil@...> wrote:

> Fabrice,
>
> I've whitelisted your address for posing to wikinews-l. The mailing list
> archives are here:
>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>
> If I see any other posts from NewsTrust people I'll whitelist their
> email addresses too. You'll only get sent copies of other messages if
> you subscribe to the mailing list.
>
> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 14:37 -0800, Fabrice Florin wrote:
>> Dear Brian,
>>
>>
>> It was great to speak with you yesterday - I'm glad that we got along
>> so well, and that you are interested in working together!
>>
>>
>> Thank you so much for moving so swiftly to contact your community
>> about a possible collaboration between NewsTrust and Wikinews.
>>
>> We will discuss this idea in our editorial meeting on Monday. We
>> really appreciate your commitment to factual reporting from a neutral
>> perspective, and it appears that we have many shared values in
>> common.
>>
>> We are also honored that you are willing to consider using NewsTrust
>> as a possible tool for judging the entries of participants in your
>> upcoming writing contest (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/WN:WWC-2010). We
>> will discuss the idea of cross-promoting this contest on both of our
>> sites at the end of January and perhaps again in early or mid-April. A
>> good way to do this might be to use our News Hunt format at that time,
>> if you all find the idea interesting. Read more about our News
>> Hunts below, as well as the attached PDF with more details about
>> NewsTrust.
>>
>>
>> I am also delighted that you were able to install our NT review
>> buttons so quickly on the Wikimedia article pages. Thanks, bawolff,
>> nicely done! See my response to your comment below.
>>
>> At your request, we already corrected the misspelling of your name on
>> our source profile page for Wikinews:
>> http://newstrust.net/sources/wikinews
>>
>>
>> Note that is is now possible for you to add one of our source widgets
>> on your site, listing stories for review from Wikinews:
>> http://newstrust.net/widgets?url=/sources/wikinews/for_review
>>
> I'm puzzling over where we could fit that in.
>>
>> You can customize your widget in many different ways on that page (be
>> sure to click on 'More Options') and we have many topic widgets you
>> might consider putting next to articles that would benefit from more
>> related stories on the same topic.
>>
>> We've also started to review a couple of your featured stories, which
>> we encourage you to review as well:
>>
>> http://newstrust.net/stories/506880/toolbar?go=review
>>
>> http://newstrust.net/stories/507108/toolbar?go=review
>
> I noticed a few were up. Iain (User Blood Red Sandman) was quite pleased
> with the review he got on the Garuda pilot story. As you probably
> understand, we can have issues getting those actually involved (such as
> the pilot) to speak to us.
>
> The one I put up and admitted a COI/writing involvement saw me acting as
> the reviewing editor, doing quite a lot of copyedit work on it and
> bringing it in line with house style.
>>
>> (if you are a co-author of any of these articles, or have any serious
>> conflicts of interest, please check the appropriate box in the 'About
>> You' section of our review form, as Brian was kind enough to do for
>> one of the articles he co-wrote)
>>
>> Lastly, I also started a Smart Feed for Wikinews here, using your
>> feedburner RSS feed:
>> http://newstrust.net/feeds/180/show
>>
>>
>> This will make it easier for any of us to submit some of your upcoming
>> stories from your feedburner feed, since much of your metada is
>> automatically pulled from your feed. However, I encourage you to focus
>> on posting some of your best stories, so we don't flood our review
>> pipeline with too many stories from Wikinews right away.
>
> I suspect the metadata on Feedburner is pathetic. We have an extension
> for MediaWiki developed to produce RSS feeds based on categories and
> (our) review process.
>>
>> We are in the middle of a News Hunt on Climate Change, which will keep
>> us busy through the weekend, and I have to prepare for a board meeting
>> at the end of the week, so I will not be able to review any more
>> stories from you guys until the following week. Thanks for your
>> understanding. But if you have any good articles about Social Change,
>> we would be happy to have our community review them, as that will be
>> one of our major themes next week.
>>
>>
>> I would also like to introduce our associate editor Kaizar Campwala,
>> who is our point person for News Hunts and partnerships. Kaizar can be
>> reached at <kaizar@...> and can answer any other questions
>> you might have about using our service.
>>
>> Look forward to continuing this discussion in coming weeks.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Fabrice
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> P.S.: Do you guys know how we could encourage a Wikipedia writer to
>> write an entry about NewsTrust on their site?
>
> Have you independent press reports on NewsTrust? That's the key thing.
> There's a few Wikipedians also contribute to Wikinews, they might know
> if there is still a "requesting an article" page on Wikipedia (and where
> it's hidden).
>>
>>
>> We understand and respect Wikipedia's rules against writing entries
>> about yourself -- or asking your friends to do it -- so we have not
>> made any attempts to have an entry written about us to date.
>>
>>
>> But we do think that it would be reasonable for someone to write one,
>> given all that we have contributed to this field over the years (see
>> attached project overview).
>
> It's all down to, unlike Wikinews, Wikipedia having a policy against
> original research, and being a tertiary source.
>
> If there is a press release or two for NewsTrust then any board or other
> people might get their Wikipedia articles updated to reflect the
> position. You can go right ahead and ask for that on an article talk
> page as long as you disclose your interest.
>
> Example:
>
> "I'm XXX of NewsTrust (http://newstrust.net), this article on <someone>
> does not mention that he is <positionholder> at NewsTrust. This is
> verifiable in <link to press releases> and <links to news reports>. Can
> this detail be added as a redlink to [[w:NewsTrust.net]], or that
> article actually started? --~~~~"
>>
>>
>> Would you be willing to nudge an experienced Wikipedia writer
>> interested in this topic to consider us as a worthy subject for an
>> article?
>
> I think I just did. I'll point a few other people at the mailing list
> archive, it might encourage them.
>
> <snip>
>>
>> Brian, to answer your question above, clicking on our NT review button
>> on a story that has already been submitted will take you directly to
>> our review form.
>
> Great!
>
>> > I've had encouraging feedback off-list about tying into NewsTrust's
>> > source rating system. Here's how I see us using this:
>> >
>> > {{source}}[5] is modified to have an optional "|NT" parameter. Where
>> > present, the URL for the cited source is checked for on NewsTrust,
>> > the
>> > story rating is retrieved, and a (likely smaller than NT uses)
>> > graphic
>> > of their trust level for the story is displayed somewhere. If
>> > NewsTrust
>> > doesn't have the story, the ideal is to fall back to their trust
>> > level
>> > for the source that published the story. Here we're going to run
>> > into
>> > the usual headaches with wire reports that are everywhere and end up
>> > cited as published by Ya-who?
>
>> We would be very happy to support any efforts along these lines, and
>> are delighted that you find them worthwhile.
>
>> > [5] http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Template:Source
>
> Still waiting to hear if we can pull that information off NewsTrust
> without having third party site requests that might violate policy.
>> >
>> > Now, I pointed Fabrice at the writing contest[6]. I would be very
>> > interested in getting the NewsTrust community to review the rules
>> > we're
>> > running by (the ever-popular "anyone can edit" including, at the
>> > moment,
>> > the competition rules). It may be possible to do some collaboration
>> > on
>> > that. NewsTrust could feature our competition a few days before the
>> > start, Wikinews invites readers not in the competition to look at
>> > ratings on NewsTrust and possibly contribute their own.
>> >
>> We are very happy to support your contest in any way we can, using the
>> current NewsTrust review tools.
>
>> But we will let you guys decide how you want to calculate the final
>> scores and award the prizes, as this is a bit outside of our area of
>> expertise.
>
>> > NewsTrust, I think, would be an ideal group to bring in on the
>> > post-competition Featured Article section. That is, all competition
>> > entries scanned for FA candidates on Wikinews, and in some way
>> > highlighted for review on NewsTrust. At the moment my penned-in idea
>> > there is to invite some of the WMF Trustees (a few have journo
>> > backgrounds) to get involved in that. The big question is, will
>> > offering
>> > just five points for an article that gets promoted be enough of a
>> > game-changer at that stage? Should it be higher - say 20 points?
>> >
>> > I didn't ask Fabrice if they could help out with sponsorship for
>> > prizes,
>> > so we're still begging for that. Anyone think it would be worth
>> > asking
>> > on the Wikipedia rewards board if a few of the people who put cash
>> > up
>> > there might chip together to have a netbook for the outright winner?
>
>> Our financial resources are limited, but we could perhaps give away
>> NewsTrust mugs to the winners, if they were selected using our review
>> tools.
>
> I don't see any reason why the mugs couldn't be awarded to the top-rated
> articles from the competition end-stage after submissions are closed and
> we're looking for those to promote to featured article status.
>
>> The mugs have a list of the core principles of journalism on the back,
>> so they offer more value than just promoting us ;o)
>
> I've pointed people at Kipling for that ;-)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
> Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
> of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> Wikinews-l@...
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>
>

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Re: Newstrust.net

2009-12-12T16:28:10Z

Fabrice,

I've whitelisted your address for posing to wikinews-l. The mailing list
archives are here:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

If I see any other posts from NewsTrust people I'll whitelist their
email addresses too. You'll only get sent copies of other messages if
you subscribe to the mailing list.

On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 14:37 -0800, Fabrice Florin wrote:

> Dear Brian,
>
>
> It was great to speak with you yesterday - I'm glad that we got along
> so well, and that you are interested in working together!
>
>
> Thank you so much for moving so swiftly to contact your community
> about a possible collaboration between NewsTrust and Wikinews.
>
> We will discuss this idea in our editorial meeting on Monday. We
> really appreciate your commitment to factual reporting from a neutral
> perspective, and it appears that we have many shared values in
> common.
>
> We are also honored that you are willing to consider using NewsTrust
> as a possible tool for judging the entries of participants in your
> upcoming writing contest (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/WN:WWC-2010). We
> will discuss the idea of cross-promoting this contest on both of our
> sites at the end of January and perhaps again in early or mid-April. A
> good way to do this might be to use our News Hunt format at that time,
> if you all find the idea interesting. Read more about our News
> Hunts below, as well as the attached PDF with more details about
> NewsTrust.
>
>
> I am also delighted that you were able to install our NT review
> buttons so quickly on the Wikimedia article pages. Thanks, bawolff,
> nicely done! See my response to your comment below.
>
> At your request, we already corrected the misspelling of your name on
> our source profile page for Wikinews:
> http://newstrust.net/sources/wikinews
>
>
> Note that is is now possible for you to add one of our source widgets
> on your site, listing stories for review from Wikinews:
> http://newstrust.net/widgets?url=/sources/wikinews/for_review
>

I'm puzzling over where we could fit that in.

>
> You can customize your widget in many different ways on that page (be
> sure to click on 'More Options') and we have many topic widgets you
> might consider putting next to articles that would benefit from more
> related stories on the same topic.
>
> We've also started to review a couple of your featured stories, which
> we encourage you to review as well:
>
> http://newstrust.net/stories/506880/toolbar?go=review
>
> http://newstrust.net/stories/507108/toolbar?go=review

I noticed a few were up. Iain (User Blood Red Sandman) was quite pleased
with the review he got on the Garuda pilot story. As you probably
understand, we can have issues getting those actually involved (such as
the pilot) to speak to us.

The one I put up and admitted a COI/writing involvement saw me acting as
the reviewing editor, doing quite a lot of copyedit work on it and
bringing it in line with house style.

>
> (if you are a co-author of any of these articles, or have any serious
> conflicts of interest, please check the appropriate box in the 'About
> You' section of our review form, as Brian was kind enough to do for
> one of the articles he co-wrote)
>
> Lastly, I also started a Smart Feed for Wikinews here, using your
> feedburner RSS feed:
> http://newstrust.net/feeds/180/show
>
>
> This will make it easier for any of us to submit some of your upcoming
> stories from your feedburner feed, since much of your metada is
> automatically pulled from your feed. However, I encourage you to focus
> on posting some of your best stories, so we don't flood our review
> pipeline with too many stories from Wikinews right away.

I suspect the metadata on Feedburner is pathetic. We have an extension
for MediaWiki developed to produce RSS feeds based on categories and
(our) review process.

>
> We are in the middle of a News Hunt on Climate Change, which will keep
> us busy through the weekend, and I have to prepare for a board meeting
> at the end of the week, so I will not be able to review any more
> stories from you guys until the following week. Thanks for your
> understanding. But if you have any good articles about Social Change,
> we would be happy to have our community review them, as that will be
> one of our major themes next week.
>
>
> I would also like to introduce our associate editor Kaizar Campwala,
> who is our point person for News Hunts and partnerships. Kaizar can be
> reached at <kaizar@...> and can answer any other questions
> you might have about using our service.
>
> Look forward to continuing this discussion in coming weeks.
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Fabrice
>
>
>
>
> P.S.: Do you guys know how we could encourage a Wikipedia writer to
> write an entry about NewsTrust on their site?

Have you independent press reports on NewsTrust? That's the key thing.
There's a few Wikipedians also contribute to Wikinews, they might know
if there is still a "requesting an article" page on Wikipedia (and where
it's hidden).

>
>
> We understand and respect Wikipedia's rules against writing entries
> about yourself -- or asking your friends to do it -- so we have not
> made any attempts to have an entry written about us to date.
>
>
> But we do think that it would be reasonable for someone to write one,
> given all that we have contributed to this field over the years (see
> attached project overview).

It's all down to, unlike Wikinews, Wikipedia having a policy against
original research, and being a tertiary source.

If there is a press release or two for NewsTrust then any board or other
people might get their Wikipedia articles updated to reflect the
position. You can go right ahead and ask for that on an article talk
page as long as you disclose your interest.

Example:

"I'm XXX of NewsTrust (http://newstrust.net), this article on <someone>
does not mention that he is <positionholder> at NewsTrust. This is
verifiable in <link to press releases> and <links to news reports>. Can
this detail be added as a redlink to [[w:NewsTrust.net]], or that
article actually started? --~~~~"
>
>
> Would you be willing to nudge an experienced Wikipedia writer
> interested in this topic to consider us as a worthy subject for an
> article?

I think I just did. I'll point a few other people at the mailing list
archive, it might encourage them.

<snip>
>
> Brian, to answer your question above, clicking on our NT review button
> on a story that has already been submitted will take you directly to
> our review form.

Great!

> > I've had encouraging feedback off-list about tying into NewsTrust's
> > source rating system. Here's how I see us using this:
> >
> > {{source}}[5] is modified to have an optional "|NT" parameter. Where
> > present, the URL for the cited source is checked for on NewsTrust,
> > the
> > story rating is retrieved, and a (likely smaller than NT uses)
> > graphic
> > of their trust level for the story is displayed somewhere. If
> > NewsTrust
> > doesn't have the story, the ideal is to fall back to their trust
> > level
> > for the source that published the story. Here we're going to run
> > into
> > the usual headaches with wire reports that are everywhere and end up
> > cited as published by Ya-who?

> We would be very happy to support any efforts along these lines, and
> are delighted that you find them worthwhile.

> > [5] http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Template:Source

Still waiting to hear if we can pull that information off NewsTrust
without having third party site requests that might violate policy.

> >
> > Now, I pointed Fabrice at the writing contest[6]. I would be very
> > interested in getting the NewsTrust community to review the rules
> > we're
> > running by (the ever-popular "anyone can edit" including, at the
> > moment,
> > the competition rules). It may be possible to do some collaboration
> > on
> > that. NewsTrust could feature our competition a few days before the
> > start, Wikinews invites readers not in the competition to look at
> > ratings on NewsTrust and possibly contribute their own.
> >
> We are very happy to support your contest in any way we can, using the
> current NewsTrust review tools.

> But we will let you guys decide how you want to calculate the final
> scores and award the prizes, as this is a bit outside of our area of
> expertise.

> > NewsTrust, I think, would be an ideal group to bring in on the
> > post-competition Featured Article section. That is, all competition
> > entries scanned for FA candidates on Wikinews, and in some way
> > highlighted for review on NewsTrust. At the moment my penned-in idea
> > there is to invite some of the WMF Trustees (a few have journo
> > backgrounds) to get involved in that. The big question is, will
> > offering
> > just five points for an article that gets promoted be enough of a
> > game-changer at that stage? Should it be higher - say 20 points?
> >
> > I didn't ask Fabrice if they could help out with sponsorship for
> > prizes,
> > so we're still begging for that. Anyone think it would be worth
> > asking
> > on the Wikipedia rewards board if a few of the people who put cash
> > up
> > there might chip together to have a netbook for the outright winner?

> Our financial resources are limited, but we could perhaps give away
> NewsTrust mugs to the winners, if they were selected using our review
> tools.

I don't see any reason why the mugs couldn't be awarded to the top-rated
articles from the competition end-stage after submissions are closed and
we're looking for those to promote to featured article status.

> The mugs have a list of the core principles of journalism on the back,
> so they offer more value than just promoting us ;o)

I've pointed people at Kipling for that ;-)

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
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Re: Newstrust.net

2009-12-12T14:37:15Z

Dear Brian,

It was great to speak with you yesterday - I'm glad that we got along so well, and that you are interested in working together!

Thank you so much for moving so swiftly to contact your community about a possible collaboration between NewsTrust and Wikinews.

We will discuss this idea in our editorial meeting on Monday. We really appreciate your commitment to factual reporting from a neutral perspective, and it appears that we have many shared values in common.

We are also honored that you are willing to consider using NewsTrust as a possible tool for judging the entries of participants in your upcoming writing contest (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/WN:WWC-2010). We will discuss the idea of cross-promoting this contest on both of our sites at the end of January and perhaps again in early or mid-April. A good way to do this might be to use our News Hunt format at that time, if you all find the idea interesting. Read more about our News Hunts below, as well as the attached PDF with more details about NewsTrust.

I am also delighted that you were able to install our NT review buttons so quickly on the Wikimedia article pages. Thanks, bawolff, nicely done! See my response to your comment below.

At your request, we already corrected the misspelling of your name on our source profile page for Wikinews:
http://newstrust.net/sources/wikinews

Note that is is now possible for you to add one of our source widgets on your site, listing stories for review from Wikinews:

http://newstrust.net/widgets?url=/sources/wikinews/for_review

You can customize your widget in many different ways on that page (be sure to click on 'More Options') and we have many topic widgets you might consider putting next to articles that would benefit from more related stories on the same topic.

We've also started to review a couple of your featured stories, which we encourage you to review as well:

http://newstrust.net/stories/506880/toolbar?go=review

http://newstrust.net/stories/507108/toolbar?go=review

(if you are a co-author of any of these articles, or have any serious conflicts of interest, please check the appropriate box in the 'About You' section of our review form, as Brian was kind enough to do for one of the articles he co-wrote)

Lastly, I also started a Smart Feed for Wikinews here, using your feedburner RSS feed:
http://newstrust.net/feeds/180/show

This will make it easier for any of us to submit some of your upcoming stories from your feedburner feed, since much of your metada is automatically pulled from your feed. However, I encourage you to focus on posting some of your best stories, so we don't flood our review pipeline with too many stories from Wikinews right away.

We are in the middle of a News Hunt on Climate Change, which will keep us busy through the weekend, and I have to prepare for a board meeting at the end of the week, so I will not be able to review any more stories from you guys until the following week. Thanks for your understanding. But if you have any good articles about Social Change, we would be happy to have our community review them, as that will be one of our major themes next week.

I would also like to introduce our associate editor Kaizar Campwala, who is our point person for News Hunts and partnerships. Kaizar can be reached at <kaizar@...> and can answer any other questions you might have about using our service.

Look forward to continuing this discussion in coming weeks.

All the best,

Fabrice

P.S.: Do you guys know how we could encourage a Wikipedia writer to write an entry about NewsTrust on their site?

We understand and respect Wikipedia's rules against writing entries about yourself -- or asking your friends to do it -- so we have not made any attempts to have an entry written about us to date.

But we do think that it would be reasonable for someone to write one, given all that we have contributed to this field over the years (see attached project overview).

Would you be willing to nudge an experienced Wikipedia writer interested in this topic to consider us as a worthy subject for an article?

__________________________________________________________________

ABOUT NEWSTRUST

NewsTrust helps people find good journalism online, so they can make more informed decisions as citizens.

We're nonprofit, nonpartisan, and committed to news literacy and civic engagement. Our social news network features a daily feed of quality news and opinions from mainstream and independent sources, based on ratings from our reviewers. Our web review tools enable the public to evaluate accuracy, fairness, context and other core journalistic principles -- and help people become more discriminating news consumers in the process. We also rate our reviewers based on performance, to increase the reliability of our reviews and help them grow their own news literacy. To find out more, check our site:
http://www.newstrust.net/

NewsTrust has attracted a growing community of journalists, educators and citizens, who share a passion for quality news and information, serving over a million visitors last year. Our media partners include The Washington Post, PBS NewsHour, the Huffington Post and Scientific American -- and our educational partners include Stanford University, Stony Brook and the University of Nevada, to name but a few.

NewsTrust's Executive Director is Fabrice Florin, a former journalist and a digital media pioneer at Apple and Macromedia. Our team includes a select group of award-winning journalists, technologists and community organizers -- with advisors such as Dan Gillmor, Craig Newmark, Howard Rheingold and other media innovators from organizations like the Associated Press, Google, the Poynter Institute and Stanford University.

Founded in 2005 and based in Mill Valley, California, NewsTrust is funded through grants and private donations. The MacArthur Foundation is our main funder and has awarded two multi-year grants to support NewsTrust's online credibility service. Other funding sources include Ashoka, Ayrshire Foundation, Mitch Kapor Foundation, Sunlight Foundation and Tides Foundation, as well as Google and private donors such as Craig Newmark (Craigslist) and Doug Carlston (Public Radio International). Though we are nonprofit, we aim to run a sustainable business, and plan to generate revenue from online sponsorships, memberships, licensing and partner services to support this project in coming years.

For more information about NewsTrust, view our About page:
http://newstrust.net/about

__________________________________________________________________

THE NEWSTRUST DIFFERENCE

Our collaborative evaluation system is more effective for evaluating quality information than other social news sites like Digg.

Here are some key differences between our services:
* we rate journalistic quality, not just popularity
* we track ratings for each publication in our source reputation database
* we feature stories from our most trusted sources in our daily listings
* citizens using our tools can assess news quality as well as professionals
* our multiple-rating evaluations are more reliable than single ratings

To discourage gaming, we offer these preventive measures:
* reviewers are identified by their real names
* we rate our reviewers based on the quality of their work
* our reviewers' ratings are weighted based on their own member level
* member levels are based on activity, experience, ratings and transparency
__________________________________________________________________

ABOUT OUR NEWS HUNTS

NewsTrust organizes regular News Hunts for good journalism on important public issues, in partnership with leading news providers and journalism schools. Our partners so far include leading media organizations like the Washington Post, PBS's NewsHour, Scientific American, Huffington Post and the Council on Foreign Relations -- as well as educational organizations like Stanford University, Northeastern, University of Nevada and Arizona State University.

A News Hunt is a bit like a scavenger hunt for quality information. For each News Hunt, we invite our partner communities to join forces with us, and review hundreds of stories in weeklong searches for good journalism on topics like the Economy, the Environment, the Middle East, and Education. Participants typically include news professionals, content experts, concerned citizens, educators and students, all using the NewsTrust review tools for this common quest. At the end of each News Hunt, we collectively recommend the best news coverage on that topic, based on ratings from your community and ours.

Our News Hunts have helped hundreds of thousands of people become more discriminating news consumers this year -- empowering them to make more informed decisions as citizens. By focusing on factual evidence and constructive dialog, we hope NewsTrust can bring Americans closer together -- and broaden their perspective about journalism and democracy.

Partnering with NewsTrust can help the public develop a better appreciation for quality news and opinion -- and support the core journalistic and civic values we stand for.

Here are some of the News Hunts we have organized recently:
* Climate Change (Link TV)
* Lobbyists (Washington Post's WhoRunsGov)
* Psychology (Miller-McCune)
* Health Care (Huffington Post's Eyes & Ears)
* Afghanistan (WNET's WorldFocus)
* Pakistan (Huffington Post and Eyes & Ears)
* Obama's First Hundred Days (PolitiFact and U. of Nevada)
* Black Experience (PBS, Tavis Smiley and U. of Santa-Clara)
* Money (Consumers Union + Stanford
* Bush Legacy (Washington Post)
* Economy (NewsHour, PBS and University of Nevada)
* Immigration (New America Media)
* Presidential Election (PBS Engage and P.O.V.)
* Media and Politics (Poynter Institute and PolitiFact)
* John McCain (Huffington Post and OffTheBus)
* Internet/Digital Natives (Frontline and Stanford University)
* Middle East (CFR.org, Global Voices, and LinkTV)
* Environment (Scientific American and University of Nevada)

We are discussing more partnerships with major new providers and journalism schools in 2009. We work with our partners to find the best coverage on important issues like Energy, Health Care, Human Rights, or about any topic that they think will interest their community. We also invite them to add our top-rated news widgets on their sites, where they can act as a scoreboard for our joint News Hunts. We have widgets for dozens of hot news topics (e.g.: Barack Obama, Global Warming, War in Iraq), as well as for hundreds of sources and members featured on our site, and they're a great way to strengthen our partnerships:
http://newstrust.net/widgets/

Our partners typically promote our News Hunts to their communities -- and announce them prominently on their sites, blogs and email newsletters, at the start of each week. Many of them also participate actively as a reviewers, submitters and creators of quality journalism on the News Hunt's chosen topic. NewsTrust manages the projects and provides most of the legwork for these News Hunts.

You can find more about previous News Hunts on our blog:
http://newstrust.net/newshunt/

On Dec 12, 2009, at 6:54 AM, Brian McNeil wrote:

Okay, I've set up an account on NewsTrust[1], reviewed a couple of
articles they've selected, and tested Bawolff's addition to the social
bookmarks template

[1] http://newstrust.net/members/brian-mcneil
[2] http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Template:Social_bookmarks

On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 23:41 -0400, bawolff wrote:
Interesting stuff. As an initial first step, I added a newstrust
button to the {{Social bookmarks}} template. Its somewhat in the
background right now. We might perhaps consider a bigger, "review this
article" button later if we really want to push this. (Their review a
story button also has the option to add what categories the article
falls in, but I haven't added that part as its not used in their basic
button, and its unclear if its really used (And its somewhat more
complicated to do, as i can't do it directly via template) If we want
that i can do it later.)

If someone else has signed up on NewsTrust I would be interested to see
what they get if they click the review button on the article I submitted
for review (protest against Lockheed Marten). Will this cause duplicate
submissions or match up with my prior submission? I did find getting a
submission in a little tricky; had to fiddle a few forms to get the
article in categories. As disclosure, I put myself as co-author on the
article because of extensive copyedit before I reviewed and published.

Thanks, bawolff, that's wonderful!

Brian, to answer your question above, clicking on our NT review button on a story that has already been submitted will take you directly to our review form.

So if you click on our NT button below this story:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Indonesian_court_overturns_Garuda_pilot%27s_conviction_over_air_disaster

... you are taken directly to our review form:

http://newstrust.net/stories/509516/toolbar?go=review

For having credibility ratings next to the source, sounds like a cool
idea (at the very least for a gadget, having it global would require
some careful consideration + potential privacy issues would need to be
looked at), but I can't see anyway of getting such information off
their site. The best i could find was a way of getting the last couple
articles that a specific source published, and the ratings for those,
but i did not see any way of getting the overall rating of a source,
or the specific rating of an article.

Amusingly, it seems NewsTrust relies a lot on Wikipedia for the basic
description of their sources, well, at least they did for Wikinews. That
*should* be good news as sources are likely to be listed with the same
names.

Yeah, we figured we might as well leverage all the good work that's being done at Wikipedia, rather than reinvent the wheel ;o)

Before we start trying to do that there's a few points to raise.
I've CC'd Cary for input on the big question; privacy policy
repercussions. Here's what we've got to work with [3], and NewsTrust's
in-development policy[4].

[3] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
[4] http://newstrust.net/about/privacy

Considering you explicitly have to sign up to NewsTrust to identify
yourself this seems much better than your average news site with loads
of embedded adverts.

What else. I think we should re-model the flagged revisions reader
feedback into some better design, perhaps inspired by newstrust.
(flagged revs reader feedback module in its current form, sucks. a
lot).

You'll get zero argument from me on that; is the review element getting
any flack on the Strategy wiki? It would be far, far better if users
were asked to review in a friendlier form (say a collapsed "Review this
article"). Better yet if that can actually be moved around the article
with a {{flagged review}} template. Within that it would be great if we
can pull up any NewsTrust rating, as well as readers submit a review to
NewsTrust.

My general concern is the idea ending up shot down because we could have
to share readers' IP details with NewsTrust. As it stands, use in
{{social bookmarking}} requires the user actively click on the NewsTrust
logo. As I understand it, quite a few projects have been very happy to
steal that template from us.

I've had encouraging feedback off-list about tying into NewsTrust's
source rating system. Here's how I see us using this:

{{source}}[5] is modified to have an optional "|NT" parameter. Where
present, the URL for the cited source is checked for on NewsTrust, the
story rating is retrieved, and a (likely smaller than NT uses) graphic
of their trust level for the story is displayed somewhere. If NewsTrust
doesn't have the story, the ideal is to fall back to their trust level
for the source that published the story. Here we're going to run into
the usual headaches with wire reports that are everywhere and end up
cited as published by Ya-who?

This is where I need Cary, or some other Foundation person's input. If
trust metrics are retrieved and displayed on-the-fly we either need to
make the reader's browser fetch them, or retrieve them periodically and
store locally. The latter has issues with keeping data current and
reflecting someone's review if they go over to NewsTrust and apply one.

We would be very happy to support any efforts along these lines, and are delighted that you find them worthwhile.

[5] http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Template:Source

What's likely to be most interesting about having a play with NewsTrust
is how the "levels" of their reputation system go. As Fabrice explained
to me, the entry level only asks simple questions on how you rate an
article. As you build your personal reputation as a news reviewer you
are asked for more details. What this led me to conclude is that
whatever segment of their reviewer populace has an interest in writing
might be enticed to try doing so on Wikinews; they'll certainly be the
sort of critical thinkers we could benefit from.

Now, I pointed Fabrice at the writing contest[6]. I would be very
interested in getting the NewsTrust community to review the rules we're
running by (the ever-popular "anyone can edit" including, at the moment,
the competition rules). It may be possible to do some collaboration on
that. NewsTrust could feature our competition a few days before the
start, Wikinews invites readers not in the competition to look at
ratings on NewsTrust and possibly contribute their own.

We are very happy to support your contest in any way we can, using the current NewsTrust review tools.

But we will let you guys decide how you want to calculate the final scores and award the prizes, as this is a bit outside of our area of expertise.

[6] http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/WN:WWC-2010

NewsTrust, I think, would be an ideal group to bring in on the
post-competition Featured Article section. That is, all competition
entries scanned for FA candidates on Wikinews, and in some way
highlighted for review on NewsTrust. At the moment my penned-in idea
there is to invite some of the WMF Trustees (a few have journo
backgrounds) to get involved in that. The big question is, will offering
just five points for an article that gets promoted be enough of a
game-changer at that stage? Should it be higher - say 20 points?

I didn't ask Fabrice if they could help out with sponsorship for prizes,
so we're still begging for that. Anyone think it would be worth asking
on the Wikipedia rewards board if a few of the people who put cash up
there might chip together to have a netbook for the outright winner?

Our financial resources are limited, but we could perhaps give away NewsTrust mugs to the winners, if they were selected using our review tools.

The mugs have a list of the core principles of journalism on the back, so they offer more value than just promoting us ;o)

As far as the competition goes, few things seem needed first. A
{{WWC-2010 entry}} template with associated categories. I think we need
to start having [[Category:Writer <username>]] hidden categories, and a
userpage template to display them. I suspect if collaborating with
NewsTrust we could get them to add a category for comp. entries so
people can track it on their site.

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@...
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

NewsTrustOverview.pdf (285K) Download Attachment

Re: Newstrust.net

2009-12-12T06:54:09Z

Okay, I've set up an account on NewsTrust[1], reviewed a couple of
articles they've selected, and tested Bawolff's addition to the social
bookmarks template

[1] http://newstrust.net/members/brian-mcneil
[2] http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Template:Social_bookmarks

On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 23:41 -0400, bawolff wrote:
> Interesting stuff. As an initial first step, I added a newstrust
> button to the {{Social bookmarks}} template. Its somewhat in the
> background right now. We might perhaps consider a bigger, "review this
> article" button later if we really want to push this. (Their review a
> story button also has the option to add what categories the article
> falls in, but I haven't added that part as its not used in their basic
> button, and its unclear if its really used (And its somewhat more
> complicated to do, as i can't do it directly via template) If we want
> that i can do it later.)

If someone else has signed up on NewsTrust I would be interested to see
what they get if they click the review button on the article I submitted
for review (protest against Lockheed Marten). Will this cause duplicate
submissions or match up with my prior submission? I did find getting a
submission in a little tricky; had to fiddle a few forms to get the
article in categories. As disclosure, I put myself as co-author on the
article because of extensive copyedit before I reviewed and published.

> For having credibility ratings next to the source, sounds like a cool
> idea (at the very least for a gadget, having it global would require
> some careful consideration + potential privacy issues would need to be
> looked at), but I can't see anyway of getting such information off
> their site. The best i could find was a way of getting the last couple
> articles that a specific source published, and the ratings for those,
> but i did not see any way of getting the overall rating of a source,
> or the specific rating of an article.

Amusingly, it seems NewsTrust relies a lot on Wikipedia for the basic
description of their sources, well, at least they did for Wikinews. That
*should* be good news as sources are likely to be listed with the same
names. Before we start trying to do that there's a few points to raise.
I've CC'd Cary for input on the big question; privacy policy
repercussions. Here's what we've got to work with [3], and NewsTrust's
in-development policy[4].

[3] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
[4] http://newstrust.net/about/privacy

Considering you explicitly have to sign up to NewsTrust to identify
yourself this seems much better than your average news site with loads
of embedded adverts.

> What else. I think we should re-model the flagged revisions reader
> feedback into some better design, perhaps inspired by newstrust.
> (flagged revs reader feedback module in its current form, sucks. a
> lot).

You'll get zero argument from me on that; is the review element getting
any flack on the Strategy wiki? It would be far, far better if users
were asked to review in a friendlier form (say a collapsed "Review this
article"). Better yet if that can actually be moved around the article
with a {{flagged review}} template. Within that it would be great if we
can pull up any NewsTrust rating, as well as readers submit a review to
NewsTrust.

My general concern is the idea ending up shot down because we could have
to share readers' IP details with NewsTrust. As it stands, use in
{{social bookmarking}} requires the user actively click on the NewsTrust
logo. As I understand it, quite a few projects have been very happy to
steal that template from us.

I've had encouraging feedback off-list about tying into NewsTrust's
source rating system. Here's how I see us using this:

{{source}}[5] is modified to have an optional "|NT" parameter. Where
present, the URL for the cited source is checked for on NewsTrust, the
story rating is retrieved, and a (likely smaller than NT uses) graphic
of their trust level for the story is displayed somewhere. If NewsTrust
doesn't have the story, the ideal is to fall back to their trust level
for the source that published the story. Here we're going to run into
the usual headaches with wire reports that are everywhere and end up
cited as published by Ya-who?

This is where I need Cary, or some other Foundation person's input. If
trust metrics are retrieved and displayed on-the-fly we either need to
make the reader's browser fetch them, or retrieve them periodically and
store locally. The latter has issues with keeping data current and
reflecting someone's review if they go over to NewsTrust and apply one.

[5] http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Template:Source

What's likely to be most interesting about having a play with NewsTrust
is how the "levels" of their reputation system go. As Fabrice explained
to me, the entry level only asks simple questions on how you rate an
article. As you build your personal reputation as a news reviewer you
are asked for more details. What this led me to conclude is that
whatever segment of their reviewer populace has an interest in writing
might be enticed to try doing so on Wikinews; they'll certainly be the
sort of critical thinkers we could benefit from.

Now, I pointed Fabrice at the writing contest[6]. I would be very
interested in getting the NewsTrust community to review the rules we're
running by (the ever-popular "anyone can edit" including, at the moment,
the competition rules). It may be possible to do some collaboration on
that. NewsTrust could feature our competition a few days before the
start, Wikinews invites readers not in the competition to look at
ratings on NewsTrust and possibly contribute their own.

[6] http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/WN:WWC-2010

NewsTrust, I think, would be an ideal group to bring in on the
post-competition Featured Article section. That is, all competition
entries scanned for FA candidates on Wikinews, and in some way
highlighted for review on NewsTrust. At the moment my penned-in idea
there is to invite some of the WMF Trustees (a few have journo
backgrounds) to get involved in that. The big question is, will offering
just five points for an article that gets promoted be enough of a
game-changer at that stage? Should it be higher - say 20 points?

I didn't ask Fabrice if they could help out with sponsorship for prizes,
so we're still begging for that. Anyone think it would be worth asking
on the Wikipedia rewards board if a few of the people who put cash up
there might chip together to have a netbook for the outright winner?

As far as the competition goes, few things seem needed first. A
{{WWC-2010 entry}} template with associated categories. I think we need
to start having [[Category:Writer <username>]] hidden categories, and a
userpage template to display them. I suspect if collaborating with
NewsTrust we could get them to add a category for comp. entries so
people can track it on their site.

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@...
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

signature.asc (852 bytes) Download Attachment

Re: Newstrust.net

2009-12-11T19:41:42Z

Interesting stuff. As an initial first step, I added a newstrust
button to the {{Social bookmarks}} template. Its somewhat in the
background right now. We might perhaps consider a bigger, "review this
article" button later if we really want to push this. (Their review a
story button also has the option to add what categories the article
falls in, but I haven't added that part as its not used in their basic
button, and its unclear if its really used (And its somewhat more
complicated to do, as i can't do it directly via template) If we want
that i can do it later.)

For having credibility ratings next to the source, sounds like a cool
idea (at the very least for a gadget, having it global would require
some careful consideration + potential privacy issues would need to be
looked at), but I can't see anyway of getting such information off
their site. The best i could find was a way of getting the last couple
articles that a specific source published, and the ratings for those,
but i did not see any way of getting the overall rating of a source,
or the specific rating of an article.

Feel free to send me said pdf. Can't guarantee i'll read 6 mb of pdf
(unless there's a lot of pictures ;), but i'll flip through it.

What else. I think we should re-model the flagged revisions reader
feedback into some better design, perhaps inspired by newstrust.
(flagged revs reader feedback module in its current form, sucks. a
lot).

cheers,
bawolff

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Brian McNeil
<brian.mcneil@...> wrote:

> I just got off of an hour long Skype chat with Fabrice Floren, founder
> of http://newstrust.net. Jimmy suggested to him it might be interesting
> if there are ways Wikinews can work with them. I think there are, but to
> some extent we need to check we're all within WMF rules, and we might
> want to kick a few more people about Amgine's MediaWiki extension for
> XML feeds.
>
> NewsTrust is a non-profit, ostensibly a news aggregator, but they
> challenge people to review news and become more critical of it. They're
> a hell of a lot more clued up about reviewing and being critical of news
> than the feeble review widget in MediaWiki.
>
> I was up-front with Fabrice, Wikinewsies will look at their site and
> say, "what can we steal?" Well, unless we run into the privacy policy,
> we're welcome to steal all their gadgets, and get them reviewing our
> stuff.
>
> My thoughts on this at the moment are there is room for collaboration;
> feeding Wikinews stories into NewsTrust and putting the NewsTrust
> review/rating widget on each Wikinews article. This could be
> incorporated into the publish template.
>
> Second, they have pretty good background on the sources they follow and
> are crowdsourcing "credibility ratings" for them. Could we pull that
> data into the {{source}} template on Wikinews? By this I mean someone
> reading one of Wikinews' articles scrolls down to the sources, it says
> "The Guardian", gives the WikiTrust rating for the source, and the cited
> article.
>
> Fabrice had not had a lot of time to look at Wikinews articles, but will
> be sticking a couple up for the NewsTrust community to review. Cirt will
> be pleased to know that at a semi-casual read his "Glenn Beck" coverage
> was deemed comprehensive and well-researched.
>
> I'm going to sign up on the site and have a real dig round in the
> morning. For now, there's the following links that might interest people
> like, ooh, I don't know ;-) Bawolff?
>
> http://newstrust.net/tools/buttons
> http://newstrust.net/sources/the_guardian
> http://newstrust.net/widgets
> http://newstrust.net/feeds/todays_feeds
>
> I also have a PDF of a NewsTrust presentation (~6Mb) if you want a copy
> let me know a suitably well-endowed email address.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
> Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
> of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> Wikinews-l@...
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>
>

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Newstrust.net

2009-12-11T14:33:40Z

I just got off of an hour long Skype chat with Fabrice Floren, founder
of http://newstrust.net. Jimmy suggested to him it might be interesting
if there are ways Wikinews can work with them. I think there are, but to
some extent we need to check we're all within WMF rules, and we might
want to kick a few more people about Amgine's MediaWiki extension for
XML feeds.

NewsTrust is a non-profit, ostensibly a news aggregator, but they
challenge people to review news and become more critical of it. They're
a hell of a lot more clued up about reviewing and being critical of news
than the feeble review widget in MediaWiki.

I was up-front with Fabrice, Wikinewsies will look at their site and
say, "what can we steal?" Well, unless we run into the privacy policy,
we're welcome to steal all their gadgets, and get them reviewing our
stuff.

My thoughts on this at the moment are there is room for collaboration;
feeding Wikinews stories into NewsTrust and putting the NewsTrust
review/rating widget on each Wikinews article. This could be
incorporated into the publish template.

Second, they have pretty good background on the sources they follow and
are crowdsourcing "credibility ratings" for them. Could we pull that
data into the {{source}} template on Wikinews? By this I mean someone
reading one of Wikinews' articles scrolls down to the sources, it says
"The Guardian", gives the WikiTrust rating for the source, and the cited
article.

Fabrice had not had a lot of time to look at Wikinews articles, but will
be sticking a couple up for the NewsTrust community to review. Cirt will
be pleased to know that at a semi-casual read his "Glenn Beck" coverage
was deemed comprehensive and well-researched.

I'm going to sign up on the site and have a real dig round in the
morning. For now, there's the following links that might interest people
like, ooh, I don't know ;-) Bawolff?

http://newstrust.net/tools/buttons
http://newstrust.net/sources/the_guardian
http://newstrust.net/widgets
http://newstrust.net/feeds/todays_feeds

I also have a PDF of a NewsTrust presentation (~6Mb) if you want a copy
let me know a suitably well-endowed email address.

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.

_______________________________________________
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Re: News sharing

2009-12-11T07:44:56Z

Lets be bad guys.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 05:08, bawolff <bawolff%2Bwn@...> wrote:

ohh! Shiny!

--
- Bawolff
Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Brian McNeil
<brian.mcneil@...> wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 12:26 -0400, bawolff wrote:
>> Ads are perfectly fine. Pretty much as long as you give us the credit
>> line, you can do whatever you want with it (or as
>> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ puts it, you are free to
>> share, transmit, re-use, modify, or adapt, even in a commercial
>> manner, as long as attribution is provided).
>
> /me gives bawolff a public-service barnstar.
>
>>
>> cheers.
>> -bawolff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Gianni Sabbione
>> <gsabbione@...> wrote:
>> > Thank you Bawolff! I will be supporting it via ads, is there any problem
>> > with that?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Juan
>> >
>> > ----- Mensaje original -----
>> > Fecha: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:55:35 -0400
>> > De: "bawolff" <bawolff%2Bwn@...>
>> > Para: "Wikinews mailing list" <wikinews-l@...>
>> > Asunto: Re: [Wikinews-l] News sharing
>> > Copia: gsabbione@...
>> >
>> > Not only is it ok, its encouraged. All you have to do, is for anything
>> > that you add which is based on something from wikinews, at the end of
>> > the article, add a line like:
>> >
>> > This article is based on the Wikinews article "<article title at
>> > wikinews>" which is released under the Creative Commons Attribution
>> > 2.5 license
>> >
>> > And have the word Wikinews linked to http://en.wikinews.org , have
>> > "<article title at wikinews>" linked to the specific article on
>> > wikinews, and Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 license linked to
>> > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/
>> >
>> >
>> > Please also note that well the text of the article is licensed under
>> > the cc-by 2.5, images typically are not. Before copying an image, you
>> > should check its copyright status (click on the image in question).
>> > Typically you can copy the images as well, but sometimes they require
>> > different attributions.
>> >
>> > Cheers, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>> > --
>> > - Bawolff
>> > Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
>> > million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.
>> >
>> > p.s. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. If you need legal
>> > advice you should ask a lawyer. There is always the possibility I am
>> > incorrect in my understanding of how the world works, and could be
>> > wrong.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Gianni Sabbione <gsabbione@...>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Hello, I am opening a free news service website and I want to add some
>> >> news
>> >> from Wikinews. I have read that it can be done via "Creative Commons"
>> >> licensing, is it OK?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks a lot in advance,
>> >> Juan
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wikinews-l mailing list
>> >> Wikinews-l@...
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikinews-l mailing list
>> Wikinews-l@...
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>
> Wikinewsie.org
>

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@...
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

--
Jon
[[User:ShakataGaNai]]
http://snowulf.com/ - Blog
http://snowulf.imagekind.com/ - Pictures
This has been a test of the emergency sig system.

_______________________________________________
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Re: News sharing

2009-12-11T05:08:19Z

ohh! Shiny!
--
- Bawolff
Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Brian McNeil
<brian.mcneil@...> wrote:

> On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 12:26 -0400, bawolff wrote:
>> Ads are perfectly fine. Pretty much as long as you give us the credit
>> line, you can do whatever you want with it (or as
>> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ puts it, you are free to
>> share, transmit, re-use, modify, or adapt, even in a commercial
>> manner, as long as attribution is provided).
>
> /me gives bawolff a public-service barnstar.
>
>>
>> cheers.
>> -bawolff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Gianni Sabbione
>> <gsabbione@...> wrote:
>> > Thank you Bawolff! I will be supporting it via ads, is there any problem
>> > with that?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Juan
>> >
>> > ----- Mensaje original -----
>> > Fecha: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:55:35 -0400
>> > De: "bawolff" <bawolff+wn@...>
>> > Para: "Wikinews mailing list" <wikinews-l@...>
>> > Asunto: Re: [Wikinews-l] News sharing
>> > Copia: gsabbione@...
>> >
>> > Not only is it ok, its encouraged. All you have to do, is for anything
>> > that you add which is based on something from wikinews, at the end of
>> > the article, add a line like:
>> >
>> > This article is based on the Wikinews article "<article title at
>> > wikinews>" which is released under the Creative Commons Attribution
>> > 2.5 license
>> >
>> > And have the word Wikinews linked to http://en.wikinews.org , have
>> > "<article title at wikinews>" linked to the specific article on
>> > wikinews, and Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 license linked to
>> > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/
>> >
>> >
>> > Please also note that well the text of the article is licensed under
>> > the cc-by 2.5, images typically are not. Before copying an image, you
>> > should check its copyright status (click on the image in question).
>> > Typically you can copy the images as well, but sometimes they require
>> > different attributions.
>> >
>> > Cheers, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>> > --
>> > - Bawolff
>> > Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
>> > million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.
>> >
>> > p.s. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. If you need legal
>> > advice you should ask a lawyer. There is always the possibility I am
>> > incorrect in my understanding of how the world works, and could be
>> > wrong.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Gianni Sabbione <gsabbione@...>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Hello, I am opening a free news service website and I want to add some
>> >> news
>> >> from Wikinews. I have read that it can be done via "Creative Commons"
>> >> licensing, is it OK?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks a lot in advance,
>> >> Juan
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wikinews-l mailing list
>> >> Wikinews-l@...
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikinews-l mailing list
>> Wikinews-l@...
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>
> Wikinewsie.org
>

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@...
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

Re: News sharing

2009-12-10T09:28:35Z

On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 12:26 -0400, bawolff wrote:
> Ads are perfectly fine. Pretty much as long as you give us the credit
> line, you can do whatever you want with it (or as
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ puts it, you are free to
> share, transmit, re-use, modify, or adapt, even in a commercial
> manner, as long as attribution is provided).

/me gives bawolff a public-service barnstar.

>
> cheers.
> -bawolff
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Gianni Sabbione
> <gsabbione@...> wrote:
> > Thank you Bawolff! I will be supporting it via ads, is there any problem
> > with that?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Juan
> >
> > ----- Mensaje original -----
> > Fecha: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:55:35 -0400
> > De: "bawolff" <bawolff+wn@...>
> > Para: "Wikinews mailing list" <wikinews-l@...>
> > Asunto: Re: [Wikinews-l] News sharing
> > Copia: gsabbione@...
> >
> > Not only is it ok, its encouraged. All you have to do, is for anything
> > that you add which is based on something from wikinews, at the end of
> > the article, add a line like:
> >
> > This article is based on the Wikinews article "<article title at
> > wikinews>" which is released under the Creative Commons Attribution
> > 2.5 license
> >
> > And have the word Wikinews linked to http://en.wikinews.org , have
> > "<article title at wikinews>" linked to the specific article on
> > wikinews, and Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 license linked to
> > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/
> >
> >
> > Please also note that well the text of the article is licensed under
> > the cc-by 2.5, images typically are not. Before copying an image, you
> > should check its copyright status (click on the image in question).
> > Typically you can copy the images as well, but sometimes they require
> > different attributions.
> >
> > Cheers, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
> > --
> > - Bawolff
> > Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
> > million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.
> >
> > p.s. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. If you need legal
> > advice you should ask a lawyer. There is always the possibility I am
> > incorrect in my understanding of how the world works, and could be
> > wrong.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Gianni Sabbione <gsabbione@...>
> > wrote:
> >> Hello, I am opening a free news service website and I want to add some
> >> news
> >> from Wikinews. I have read that it can be done via "Creative Commons"
> >> licensing, is it OK?
> >>
> >> Thanks a lot in advance,
> >> Juan
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikinews-l mailing list
> >> Wikinews-l@...
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
> >>
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> Wikinews-l@...
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>
Wikinewsie.org

_______________________________________________
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Re: News sharing

2009-12-10T09:25:54Z

Sounds good, can you let us know the website URL?

Thanks!

2009/12/10 bawolff <bawolff%2Bwn@...>

Ads are perfectly fine. Pretty much as long as you give us the credit
line, you can do whatever you want with it (or as
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ puts it, you are free to
share, transmit, re-use, modify, or adapt, even in a commercial
manner, as long as attribution is provided).

cheers.
-bawolff

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Gianni Sabbione
<gsabbione@...> wrote:
> Thank you Bawolff! I will be supporting it via ads, is there any problem
> with that?
>
> Regards,
> Juan
>
> ----- Mensaje original -----
> Fecha: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:55:35 -0400
> De: "bawolff" <bawolff%2Bwn@...>
> Para: "Wikinews mailing list" <wikinews-l@...>
> Asunto: Re: [Wikinews-l] News sharing
> Copia: gsabbione@...
>
> Not only is it ok, its encouraged. All you have to do, is for anything
> that you add which is based on something from wikinews, at the end of
> the article, add a line like:
>
> This article is based on the Wikinews article "<article title at
> wikinews>" which is released under the Creative Commons Attribution
> 2.5 license
>
> And have the word Wikinews linked to http://en.wikinews.org , have
> "<article title at wikinews>" linked to the specific article on
> wikinews, and Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 license linked to
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/
>
>
> Please also note that well the text of the article is licensed under
> the cc-by 2.5, images typically are not. Before copying an image, you
> should check its copyright status (click on the image in question).
> Typically you can copy the images as well, but sometimes they require
> different attributions.
>
> Cheers, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
> --
> - Bawolff
> Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
> million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.
>
> p.s. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. If you need legal
> advice you should ask a lawyer. There is always the possibility I am
> incorrect in my understanding of how the world works, and could be
> wrong.
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Gianni Sabbione <gsabbione@...>
> wrote:
>> Hello, I am opening a free news service website and I want to add some
>> news
>> from Wikinews. I have read that it can be done via "Creative Commons"
>> licensing, is it OK?
>>
>> Thanks a lot in advance,
>> Juan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikinews-l mailing list
>> Wikinews-l@...
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>
>>

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@...
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

_______________________________________________
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Wikinews-l@...
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

Re: News sharing

2009-12-10T08:26:04Z

Ads are perfectly fine. Pretty much as long as you give us the credit
line, you can do whatever you want with it (or as
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ puts it, you are free to
share, transmit, re-use, modify, or adapt, even in a commercial
manner, as long as attribution is provided).

cheers.
-bawolff

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Gianni Sabbione
<gsabbione@...> wrote:

> Thank you Bawolff! I will be supporting it via ads, is there any problem
> with that?
>
> Regards,
> Juan
>
> ----- Mensaje original -----
> Fecha: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:55:35 -0400
> De: "bawolff" <bawolff+wn@...>
> Para: "Wikinews mailing list" <wikinews-l@...>
> Asunto: Re: [Wikinews-l] News sharing
> Copia: gsabbione@...
>
> Not only is it ok, its encouraged. All you have to do, is for anything
> that you add which is based on something from wikinews, at the end of
> the article, add a line like:
>
> This article is based on the Wikinews article "<article title at
> wikinews>" which is released under the Creative Commons Attribution
> 2.5 license
>
> And have the word Wikinews linked to http://en.wikinews.org , have
> "<article title at wikinews>" linked to the specific article on
> wikinews, and Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 license linked to
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/
>
>
> Please also note that well the text of the article is licensed under
> the cc-by 2.5, images typically are not. Before copying an image, you
> should check its copyright status (click on the image in question).
> Typically you can copy the images as well, but sometimes they require
> different attributions.
>
> Cheers, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
> --
> - Bawolff
> Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
> million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.
>
> p.s. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. If you need legal
> advice you should ask a lawyer. There is always the possibility I am
> incorrect in my understanding of how the world works, and could be
> wrong.
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Gianni Sabbione <gsabbione@...>
> wrote:
>> Hello, I am opening a free news service website and I want to add some
>> news
>> from Wikinews. I have read that it can be done via "Creative Commons"
>> licensing, is it OK?
>>
>> Thanks a lot in advance,
>> Juan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikinews-l mailing list
>> Wikinews-l@...
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>>
>>

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@...
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

Re: News sharing

2009-12-09T16:55:35Z

Not only is it ok, its encouraged. All you have to do, is for anything
that you add which is based on something from wikinews, at the end of
the article, add a line like:

This article is based on the Wikinews article "<article title at
wikinews>" which is released under the Creative Commons Attribution
2.5 license

And have the word Wikinews linked to http://en.wikinews.org , have
"<article title at wikinews>" linked to the specific article on
wikinews, and Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 license linked to
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/

Please also note that well the text of the article is licensed under
the cc-by 2.5, images typically are not. Before copying an image, you
should check its copyright status (click on the image in question).
Typically you can copy the images as well, but sometimes they require
different attributions.

Cheers, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
--
- Bawolff
Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

p.s. I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. If you need legal
advice you should ask a lawyer. There is always the possibility I am
incorrect in my understanding of how the world works, and could be
wrong.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Gianni Sabbione <gsabbione@...> wrote:

> Hello, I am opening a free news service website and I want to add some news
> from Wikinews. I have read that it can be done via "Creative Commons"
> licensing, is it OK?
>
> Thanks a lot in advance,
> Juan
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> Wikinews-l@...
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>
>

_______________________________________________
Wikinews-l mailing list
Wikinews-l@...
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

Re: WikiVoices #51 / English Wikinews Writing Contest 2010 - #wikiwednesday

2009-12-09T16:34:55Z

Link correction:

Competition link should be: (one w)
http://enwn.net/WC2010
--
- Bawolff
Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Brian McNeil
<brian.mcneil@...> wrote:

> Mike Peel has near-confirmed/agreed to do WikiVoices #51 (previously Not
> the Wikipedia Weekly). I'm there, Durova is ringmaster, and Jimmy Wales
> will also be in on it.
>
> It's the 23rd, 8pm UK time, and via Skype, a Skypecast (funny name for a
> podcast) should be available shortly thereafter.
>
> The idea is to see if a few Wikinews articles can be put together during
> the recording session. Up to around 15 additional call-ins can be
> supported provided people mute mics as appropriate to avoid a "wall of
> background noise".
>
> It will also be another point to promote Wikinews' 2010 writing contest,
> which starts on January 25. Alas, so far we've not dug up any prizes -
> in a couple of previous competitions I've put up some cash - the idea of
> it being "paid editing" goes away when you're looking at about
> 10p/article.
>
> Please complain bitterly, but *constructively*, about any of the
> neglected Wikinews landing or help pages; if you've a relative that
> relates you the news blow-by-blow, send them our way, and if you're a
> twit, send it out with the #wikiwednesday tag.
>
> Competition:
> http://enwn.net/WWC2010
>
> WikiVoices #51
> http://enwn.net/7F9Cf
>
> The "for Wikipedians" Wikinews intro
> http://enwn.net/197b
>
> The "for your friends who might try" Wikinews intro
> http://enwn.net/6bc42
>
>
> --
> Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
> Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
> of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Wikinews-l@...
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>
>

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Re: Office hours next Friday, December 11

2009-12-09T12:01:16Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I hope my inability to send these out without one single mistake is
amply entertaining. The day is Friday (as indicated in the subject and
the second paragraph), not Thursday (as carelessly left in the first line).

Cary

Cary Bass wrote:

> Hello all!
>
> Next Thursday's office hours will feature Frank Schulenberg, the
> Wikimedia Foundation's Head of Public Outreach. If you don't know Frank
> you can learn all about him at
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Frank_Schulenburg>.
>
> Office hours on Friday are from 2330 to 0030 UTC (3:30 PM - 4:30 PM PST).
>
> If you do not have an IRC client, there are two ways you can come chat
> using a web browser: First is using the Wikizine chat gateway at
> <http://chatwikizine.memebot.com/cgi-bin/cgiirc/irc.cgi>. Type a
> nickname, select irc.freenode.net from the top menu and
> #wikimedia-office from the following menu, then login to join.
>
> Also, you can access Freenode by going to http://webchat.freenode.net/,
> typing in the nickname of your choice and choosing wikimedia-office as
> the channel. You may be prompted to click through a security warning.
> It should be all right.
>
> Please feel free to forward (and translate!) this email to any other
> relevant email lists you happen to be on.
>

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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3ggAoOUVXpd3/f5runSOeNXVWopEDU73
=67cZ
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Office hours next Friday, December 11

2009-12-09T11:23:55Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello all!

Next Thursday's office hours will feature Frank Schulenberg, the
Wikimedia Foundation's Head of Public Outreach. If you don't know Frank
you can learn all about him at
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Frank_Schulenburg>.

Office hours on Friday are from 2330 to 0030 UTC (3:30 PM - 4:30 PM PST).

If you do not have an IRC client, there are two ways you can come chat
using a web browser: First is using the Wikizine chat gateway at
<http://chatwikizine.memebot.com/cgi-bin/cgiirc/irc.cgi>. Type a
nickname, select irc.freenode.net from the top menu and
#wikimedia-office from the following menu, then login to join.

Also, you can access Freenode by going to http://webchat.freenode.net/,
typing in the nickname of your choice and choosing wikimedia-office as
the channel. You may be prompted to click through a security warning.
It should be all right.

Please feel free to forward (and translate!) this email to any other
relevant email lists you happen to be on.

- --
Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
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/AQAoMPzapFkeimtSijqas9hDpLDvpc7
=4HdT
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News sharing

2009-12-09T09:14:00Z

Hello, I am opening a free news service website and I want to add some news from Wikinews. I have read that it can be done via "Creative Commons" licensing, is it OK?

Thanks a lot in advance,
Juan
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Re: Wikinews on the night before the night before Christmas

2009-12-09T06:43:13Z

If I can get the technical bugs sorted out at my end, I am willing to stand in the wings. Would you also like me to liaise with fr-Wikinews as I know a couple of people there, and of course, French is one of my mother tongues as an added bonus?

Jonathan Alexandr Ledbury-Romanov

User AlexandrDmitri on all Wikimedia Foundation projects

This message and any attachments (the "message") are intended solely for the addressees and is confidential. If you have received this message by mistake, please delete it and immediately inform me by replying to this email address. Any use not in accord with its purpose, any dissemination or disclosure, either whole or partial, is prohibited except after formal approval. The internet can not guarantee the integrity of this message. I can not therefore be held liable for the message if it is modified.

Ce message et toutes les pièces-jointes (ci-après le « message » ou « courrier email ») sont établis a l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires et sont confidentiels. Si vous recevez ce message par erreur, merci de le détruire et de m'en avertir immédiatement en répondant à cette adresse email. Toute utilisation de ce message non conforme à sa destination, toute diffusion ou toute publication, totale ou partielle, est interdite, sauf autorisation expresse. L'internet ne permettant pas d'assurer l'intégrité de ce message, je décline toute responsabilité au titre de ce message, dans l'hypothèse où il aurait été modifié.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Wikinews-l] Wikinews on the night before the night before
Christmas
From: Jon Davis <wiki@...>
Date: Mon, December 07, 2009 8:57 pm
To: Wikinews mailing list <wikinews-l@...>
Cc: scoop <scoop@...>, "Mike Peel (WMUK)"
<email@...>, Jimmy Wales <jwales@...>

Hey! I get my 1% off the top no matter what, that was part of the cabal deal when I got 'crat'd.

That being said, I've not been paying attention, but I presume we're expecting a (hopefully) decently fair usage jump for this? A few thoughts:

* Tempo will need to work overtime as greeting bot. Unless someone of importance can harass the devs. We've got a bug filled requesting Extension:NewUserMessage ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20508 ), but it has been languishing for 3 months now.
* We really should be extra nice. This means no banning w/o warning (Yes, I'm talking to myself too)
* Most importantly: If anyone rejects a review (or speedy kicks back something in {{review}}) for the next few days after, seek out the article writer and alert them on their talk page that it was done so. Not everyone pays attention to the articles they wrote.
* Make sure to include information sources when dealing with people who don't get our "system". That starts with the obvious, like [[WN:SG]] ( http://enwn.net/9Adc5 ) and [[Wikinews:Writing an article]] ( http://enwn.net/78B55 ) but also includes pages like [[Wikinews:For Wikipedians]] ( http://enwn.net/197b ).
* We really should set a site notice to dedicate a page (or at least a topic on The Cooler), providing an advance warning for everything. There are a few slackers out there who we haven't whipped into shape and got them signed up for Wikinews-l yet.

-Jon
--
[[User:ShakataGaNai]]
http://snowulf.com/ - Blog
http://snowulf.imagekind.com/ - Pictures
This has been a test of the emergency sig system.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:03, Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...> wrote:
Wikinews WikiParty!
[No! This does not mean I wear my kilt Cary.]

This will be the first time ever that Jimmy Wales has done WikiVoices
(previously: Not the Wikipedia Weekly), *and* it's on Wikinews.

George Watson (Dendodge) has said he should be able to do this too.
Just in case not, I'd welcome a standby or two; you *need* Skype, and a
headset or other good microphone. Considering French Wikinews is working
towards getting listed in GNews, it would be really nice to have someone
from there in - even if not for the full session. That's in addition to
Dendodge. One of Wikinews' strengths is the international nature; moving
to two of the top Western languages being in GNews is good news.

An as-yet unconfirmed attendee is Rory Cellan-Jones, one of the
semi-geeky, and semi-independent, journalists that works with/for the
BBC. So, yes, I have high hopes of this getting Wikinews some publicity.

Set diverse alarms for making sure you're in IRC, tracking recent
changes, and anything else like that during the recording and few hours
after. I'll try and get Durova to give fair warning of the actual
Skypecast going up on Wikipedia - there will likely be another spike
then.

Regrettably, ShakataGaNai will have to earn his 1% when this is
happening; I considered a Prozac prescription. But, he'd just smile more
while blowing people off the Internet for trolling and POV-pushing.

And if you do have Skype, there will be a text chat session too,
everyone writing on Wikinews who can be involved in that, should.

-------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Jimmy Wales
> To: Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>
> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 10:34:25 -0800
>
> On my calendar!

> Brian McNeil wrote:
> > On Sun, 2009-12-06 at 17:32 -0800, Jimmy Wales wrote:
> >> What exact date/time?
> >>
> >> Brian McNeil wrote:
> >
> >>> I've put up a date/time marked as provisional...
> >>>
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikivoices#Episode_51
> >>>
> >>> Kinda had to do this when I've perhaps landed Rory Cellan-Jones from the
> >>> BBC as a participant.
> >
> > Time (provisional): Wednesday December 23, 2009 (1200 PST 2000 UTC)
> >
> > That's 3pm in Florida - I think.

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
* Problems replying? Forward bounces to brianmc@... to raise with Godaddy Hosting.

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WikiVoices #51 / English Wikinews Writing Contest 2010 - #wikiwednesday

2009-12-09T05:54:32Z

Mike Peel has near-confirmed/agreed to do WikiVoices #51 (previously Not
the Wikipedia Weekly). I'm there, Durova is ringmaster, and Jimmy Wales
will also be in on it.

It's the 23rd, 8pm UK time, and via Skype, a Skypecast (funny name for a
podcast) should be available shortly thereafter.

The idea is to see if a few Wikinews articles can be put together during
the recording session. Up to around 15 additional call-ins can be
supported provided people mute mics as appropriate to avoid a "wall of
background noise".

It will also be another point to promote Wikinews' 2010 writing contest,
which starts on January 25. Alas, so far we've not dug up any prizes -
in a couple of previous competitions I've put up some cash - the idea of
it being "paid editing" goes away when you're looking at about
10p/article.

Please complain bitterly, but *constructively*, about any of the
neglected Wikinews landing or help pages; if you've a relative that
relates you the news blow-by-blow, send them our way, and if you're a
twit, send it out with the #wikiwednesday tag.

Competition:
http://enwn.net/WWC2010

WikiVoices #51
http://enwn.net/7F9Cf

The "for Wikipedians" Wikinews intro
http://enwn.net/197b

The "for your friends who might try" Wikinews intro
http://enwn.net/6bc42

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.

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Office Hours

2009-12-08T13:36:33Z

It's happening again :)

Wikimedia Strategy Project office hours on IRC (#wikimedia-strategy at freenode) are Wednesday from 04:00-05:00 UTC, which is:

- Tuesday, 8-9pm PST
- Tuesday, 11pm-12am EST
You can access the chat by going to https://webchat.freenode.net/ and filling in a username and the channel name (#wikimedia-strategy). You may be prompted to click through a security warning. It's fine. Another option is http://chat.wikizine.org.
For more information about IRC clients, go to the Wikipedia entry on IRC or the Meta page on Wikimedia IRC.

____________________

Philippe Beaudette

Facilitator, Strategy Project
Wikimedia Foundation

philippe@...

mobile: 918 200-WIKI (9454)

Imagine a world in which every human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: Wikinews on the night before the night before Christmas

2009-12-07T13:23:41Z

On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 12:57 -0800, Jon Davis wrote:
> Hey! I get my 1% off the top no matter what, that was part of the
> cabal deal when I got 'crat'd.

One percent of nothing... is still nothing. :-P
>
> That being said, I've not been paying attention, but I presume we're
> expecting a (hopefully) decently fair usage jump for this? A few
> thoughts:
>
> * We really should set a site notice to dedicate a page (or at least a
> topic on The Cooler), providing an advance warning for everything.
> There are a few slackers out there who we haven't whipped into shape
> and got them signed up for Wikinews-l yet.

Yes.

There will also be a need for a decent post-mortem. I think on enWN
everyone with Editor/Admin should review the full Skypecast. It will
shed light on areas where it is difficult for people to quickly get
involved. I know the Newsroom could do with more makeover (I put in a
header; quick, dirty, but need to push an "urgency"); and, at least one
of the other links from the main page's masthead is dull-as-ditchwater
offputting - coma-inducing material.

The writing contest is already showing a nice number of signups, and I
do intend to mention it. I really, really hope by time of recording
there's some firm prize commitments to spice it up a bit. For that, I
would really like to see frWN in GNews, and the competition. THEN I can
ask Josh at GNews if they're interested, bilingual entrants can get a
few extra points for doing in both languages, and - hopefully - google
translate could get feedback on improving their translation engine.

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
* Problems replying? Forward bounces to brianmc@... to raise with Godaddy Hosting.

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Re: Wikinews on the night before the night before Christmas

2009-12-07T12:57:55Z

Hey! I get my 1% off the top no matter what, that was part of the cabal deal when I got 'crat'd.

That being said, I've not been paying attention, but I presume we're expecting a (hopefully) decently fair usage jump for this? A few thoughts:

* Tempo will need to work overtime as greeting bot. Unless someone of importance can harass the devs. We've got a bug filled requesting Extension:NewUserMessage ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20508 ), but it has been languishing for 3 months now.
* We really should be extra nice. This means no banning w/o warning (Yes, I'm talking to myself too)
* Most importantly: If anyone rejects a review (or speedy kicks back something in {{review}}) for the next few days after, seek out the article writer and alert them on their talk page that it was done so. Not everyone pays attention to the articles they wrote.
* Make sure to include information sources when dealing with people who don't get our "system". That starts with the obvious, like [[WN:SG]] ( http://enwn.net/9Adc5 ) and [[Wikinews:Writing an article]] ( http://enwn.net/78B55 ) but also includes pages like [[Wikinews:For Wikipedians]] ( http://enwn.net/197b ).
* We really should set a site notice to dedicate a page (or at least a topic on The Cooler), providing an advance warning for everything. There are a few slackers out there who we haven't whipped into shape and got them signed up for Wikinews-l yet.

-Jon
--
[[User:ShakataGaNai]]
http://snowulf.com/ - Blog
http://snowulf.imagekind.com/ - Pictures
This has been a test of the emergency sig system.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:03, Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...> wrote:

Wikinews WikiParty!
[No! This does not mean I wear my kilt Cary.]

This will be the first time ever that Jimmy Wales has done WikiVoices
(previously: Not the Wikipedia Weekly), *and* it's on Wikinews.

George Watson (Dendodge) has said he should be able to do this too.
Just in case not, I'd welcome a standby or two; you *need* Skype, and a
headset or other good microphone. Considering French Wikinews is working
towards getting listed in GNews, it would be really nice to have someone
from there in - even if not for the full session. That's in addition to
Dendodge. One of Wikinews' strengths is the international nature; moving
to two of the top Western languages being in GNews is good news.

An as-yet unconfirmed attendee is Rory Cellan-Jones, one of the
semi-geeky, and semi-independent, journalists that works with/for the
BBC. So, yes, I have high hopes of this getting Wikinews some publicity.

Set diverse alarms for making sure you're in IRC, tracking recent
changes, and anything else like that during the recording and few hours
after. I'll try and get Durova to give fair warning of the actual
Skypecast going up on Wikipedia - there will likely be another spike
then.

Regrettably, ShakataGaNai will have to earn his 1% when this is
happening; I considered a Prozac prescription. But, he'd just smile more
while blowing people off the Internet for trolling and POV-pushing.

And if you do have Skype, there will be a text chat session too,
everyone writing on Wikinews who can be involved in that, should.

-------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Jimmy Wales
> To: Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>
> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 10:34:25 -0800
>
> On my calendar!

> Brian McNeil wrote:
> > On Sun, 2009-12-06 at 17:32 -0800, Jimmy Wales wrote:
> >> What exact date/time?
> >>
> >> Brian McNeil wrote:
> >
> >>> I've put up a date/time marked as provisional...
> >>>
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikivoices#Episode_51
> >>>
> >>> Kinda had to do this when I've perhaps landed Rory Cellan-Jones from the
> >>> BBC as a participant.
> >
> > Time (provisional): Wednesday December 23, 2009 (1200 PST 2000 UTC)
> >
> > That's 3pm in Florida - I think.

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
* Problems replying? Forward bounces to brianmc@... to raise with Godaddy Hosting.

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Wikinews on the night before the night before Christmas

2009-12-07T12:03:14Z

Wikinews WikiParty!
[No! This does not mean I wear my kilt Cary.]

This will be the first time ever that Jimmy Wales has done WikiVoices
(previously: Not the Wikipedia Weekly), *and* it's on Wikinews.

George Watson (Dendodge) has said he should be able to do this too.
Just in case not, I'd welcome a standby or two; you *need* Skype, and a
headset or other good microphone. Considering French Wikinews is working
towards getting listed in GNews, it would be really nice to have someone
from there in - even if not for the full session. That's in addition to
Dendodge. One of Wikinews' strengths is the international nature; moving
to two of the top Western languages being in GNews is good news.

An as-yet unconfirmed attendee is Rory Cellan-Jones, one of the
semi-geeky, and semi-independent, journalists that works with/for the
BBC. So, yes, I have high hopes of this getting Wikinews some publicity.

Set diverse alarms for making sure you're in IRC, tracking recent
changes, and anything else like that during the recording and few hours
after. I'll try and get Durova to give fair warning of the actual
Skypecast going up on Wikipedia - there will likely be another spike
then.

Regrettably, ShakataGaNai will have to earn his 1% when this is
happening; I considered a Prozac prescription. But, he'd just smile more
while blowing people off the Internet for trolling and POV-pushing.

And if you do have Skype, there will be a text chat session too,
everyone writing on Wikinews who can be involved in that, should.

-------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Jimmy Wales
> To: Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>
> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 10:34:25 -0800
>
> On my calendar!

> Brian McNeil wrote:
> > On Sun, 2009-12-06 at 17:32 -0800, Jimmy Wales wrote:
> >> What exact date/time?
> >>
> >> Brian McNeil wrote:
> >
> >>> I've put up a date/time marked as provisional...
> >>>
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikivoices#Episode_51
> >>>
> >>> Kinda had to do this when I've perhaps landed Rory Cellan-Jones from the
> >>> BBC as a participant.
> >
> > Time (provisional): Wednesday December 23, 2009 (1200 PST 2000 UTC)
> >
> > That's 3pm in Florida - I think.

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
* Problems replying? Forward bounces to brianmc@... to raise with Godaddy Hosting.

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Re: Wikinews in Google News

2009-12-06T10:31:26Z

On that note - who's ready for a kludge party! :P
--
- bawolff
Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85
million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Amgine <amgine.saewyc@...> wrote:

>
> I am not actively developing on this project.
>
> I spent 8 weeks developing, 5 of which were spent attempting to get
> feedback from WMF devs, after which I abandoned the project when I was
> working on feature requests without any hope of it being implemented.
> When I did get feedback it was live review in IRC, was told
> (paraphraased) 'I don't want to look at the sql [the primary element of
> the script] for potential xss', and the developer did not like my style
> of development so I should 'clean it up and resubmit it.' Whatever the
> hell that might mean since 90% of the script is the sql.
>
> The script as-is meets the specification, is secure, and it works. Spec:
> http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Amgine/Google_News_Sitemap. Working
> implementation: http://wiki.enwn.net/index.php/Special:SpecialGNSM.
>
> Amgine
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> Wikinews-l@...
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>

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Re: Wikinews in Google News

2009-12-06T09:40:44Z

On Sun, 2009-12-06 at 16:39 +0000, Brian McNeil wrote:

> NB! This email is CC'd to several people who have requested parts of
> Flagged Revisions be enabled on various Wikinews language versions. I
> would urge these recipients to subscribe to wikinews-l.
>
> I would like to see so as many language versions of Wikinews as possible
> listed in Google News. Erik Moeller, WMF Deputy CEO, graciously put me
> in touch with someone who helped make it happen for English Wikinews, as
> far as I can tell it should be possible for
>
> English
> French
> Hungarian
> Polish
> Portuguese
> Spanish
>
> There are processes that need to be visible to Google and assure them of
> certain editorial controls, and at the moment there are some technical
> kludges required to meet other requirements laid out by Google.
>
> For technical issues, some work is being done on a new MediaWiki
> extension:
>
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20818
>
> Hopefully Amgine will have another patch on offer soon, but I encourage
> all Wikinewsies to vote for this bug.
>
> For non-English Wikinews editions, I'm happy to try and help get
> appropriate pages interlinked and presented to Google as proof of
> editorial control. Bawolff can also help with some of the technical
> measures and helper tools.
>
> Ideally, given the six languages above, Google News could list us in a
> special way where a story is covered in several languages.
>
> I would also like to see the upcoming Writing contest
> ( http://enwn.net/WC2010 ) expanded to languages that can get a Google
> News listing before the start date. This might encourage Google to
> sponsor a prize or two in light of having to implement measures to limit
> public access to certain newspaper websites.

I am not actively developing on this project.

I spent 8 weeks developing, 5 of which were spent attempting to get
feedback from WMF devs, after which I abandoned the project when I was
working on feature requests without any hope of it being implemented.
When I did get feedback it was live review in IRC, was told
(paraphraased) 'I don't want to look at the sql [the primary element of
the script] for potential xss', and the developer did not like my style
of development so I should 'clean it up and resubmit it.' Whatever the
hell that might mean since 90% of the script is the sql.

The script as-is meets the specification, is secure, and it works. Spec:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Amgine/Google_News_Sitemap. Working
implementation: http://wiki.enwn.net/index.php/Special:SpecialGNSM.

Amgine

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Wikinews in Google News

2009-12-06T08:39:07Z

NB! This email is CC'd to several people who have requested parts of
Flagged Revisions be enabled on various Wikinews language versions. I
would urge these recipients to subscribe to wikinews-l.

I would like to see so as many language versions of Wikinews as possible
listed in Google News. Erik Moeller, WMF Deputy CEO, graciously put me
in touch with someone who helped make it happen for English Wikinews, as
far as I can tell it should be possible for

English
French
Hungarian
Polish
Portuguese
Spanish

There are processes that need to be visible to Google and assure them of
certain editorial controls, and at the moment there are some technical
kludges required to meet other requirements laid out by Google.

For technical issues, some work is being done on a new MediaWiki
extension:

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20818

Hopefully Amgine will have another patch on offer soon, but I encourage
all Wikinewsies to vote for this bug.

For non-English Wikinews editions, I'm happy to try and help get
appropriate pages interlinked and presented to Google as proof of
editorial control. Bawolff can also help with some of the technical
measures and helper tools.

Ideally, given the six languages above, Google News could list us in a
special way where a story is covered in several languages.

I would also like to see the upcoming Writing contest
( http://enwn.net/WC2010 ) expanded to languages that can get a Google
News listing before the start date. This might encourage Google to
sponsor a prize or two in light of having to implement measures to limit
public access to certain newspaper websites.

--
Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil@...>|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil
Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position
of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects.
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