Wikipedia slags off Palmerston North

[Steve Bennett-8]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2516472/Wikipedia-entries-slag-off-Palmerston-North

Maybe I'm getting old and jaded, but when I read that the local
council altered the Wikipedia article about their city to be more
favourable, my reaction was "oh, good, that was the right thing to
do". Heh.

I also particularly like the final line of the article.

Steve

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[Carcharoth]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Steve Bennett<stevagewp@...> wrote:
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2516472/Wikipedia-entries-slag-off-Palmerston-North
>
> Maybe I'm getting old and jaded, but when I read that the local
> council altered the Wikipedia article about their city to be more
> favourable, my reaction was "oh, good, that was the right thing to
> do". Heh.
>
> I also particularly like the final line of the article.

Worth quoting here:

"Wikipedia could not be reached for comment."

Carcharoth

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[Thomas Dalton]

2009/6/26 Steve Bennett <stevagewp@...>:
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2516472/Wikipedia-entries-slag-off-Palmerston-North
>
> Maybe I'm getting old and jaded, but when I read that the local
> council altered the Wikipedia article about their city to be more
> favourable, my reaction was "oh, good, that was the right thing to
> do". Heh.
>
> I also particularly like the final line of the article.

The "Wikipedia could not be reached for comment." bit? That seems odd
to me, I wonder who they tried to contact...

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[Steve Bennett-8]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Thomas Dalton<thomas.dalton@...> wrote:
> The "Wikipedia could not be reached for comment." bit? That seems odd
> to me, I wonder who they tried to contact...

Yeah. We actually do have processes for that. Without too much
difficulty I reached http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us
and thus http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_room . I guess they
tried press@ and didn't get a response in time. I guess.

Steve

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[Charles Matthews]

Steve Bennett wrote:
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2516472/Wikipedia-entries-slag-off-Palmerston-North
>
> Maybe I'm getting old and jaded, but when I read that the local
> council altered the Wikipedia article about their city to be more
> favourable, my reaction was "oh, good, that was the right thing to
> do". Heh.
>  
You meant "neutral" of course ...

Charles


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[Durova]

Might be a good idea for someone from ComCom to make outreach and find out
who they attempted to contact.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:39 AM, Charles Matthews <
charles.r.matthews@...> wrote:

> Steve Bennett wrote:
> >
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/2516472/Wikipedia-entries-slag-off-Palmerston-North
> >
> > Maybe I'm getting old and jaded, but when I read that the local
> > council altered the Wikipedia article about their city to be more
> > favourable, my reaction was "oh, good, that was the right thing to
> > do". Heh.
> >
> You meant "neutral" of course ...
>
> Charles
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--
http://durova.blogspot.com/
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[WJhonson]

In a message dated 6/26/2009 5:12:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
carcharothwp@... writes:

Worth  quoting here:

"Wikipedia could not be reached for  comment.">>
-----------------
 
The coffee I had this morning was crappy.  The coffee could not be  reached
for comment.
Wikipedia is not a person who can comment.  In fact Wikipedia is not a  
person or even sentient or even living.
 
How exactly do you get comment from Wikipedia anyway?
Oops I stepped in that one....
 
Will Johnson
 
 
 
 
**************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)
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[Ken Arromdee]

It's like a BLP except that the subject isn't a person.  The same problems
come up--ultimately, if a city can't attract professionals because of a bad
Wikipedia article, it's still real people being hurt in real-life ways by
us.  Just not one at a time.  It's also like BLP in that the city's marginally
notable and probably isn't on a lot of watchlists.

Maybe we should expand the BLP concept to include organizations, cities, etc.?
Like BLP, it's most needed when the group is small.  There won't be
Biography of Living Organization problems on Coca-Cola any more than there
will be BLP problems on Bill Gates.  But BLO problems on small cities (or
small companies, etc.) where the Wikipedia entry is the top search result,
can wreak havoc.


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[Ken Arromdee]

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 WJhonson@... wrote:

> Worth  quoting here:
>
> "Wikipedia could not be reached for  comment.">>
> -----------------
>  
> The coffee I had this morning was crappy.  The coffee could not be  reached
> for comment.
> Wikipedia is not a person who can comment.  In fact Wikipedia is not a  
> person or even sentient or even living.
>  
> How exactly do you get comment from Wikipedia anyway?
> Oops I stepped in that one....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonymy

    Metonymy example: The White House supports the bill (using The White
    House instead of the President. The President is not like The White
    House, but there is contiguity between them...


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[WJhonson]

 OK but apply it.
Who do you ask at "Wikipedia" for comment.
And how do you state "Wikipedia could not be reached for comment" ?




 Metonymy example: The White House supports the bill (using The White
    House instead of the President. The President is not like The White
    House, but there is contiguity between them...



 


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Arromdee <arromdee@...>
To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l@...>
Sent: Fri, Jun 26, 2009 3:17 pm
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia slags off Palmerston North










On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 WJhonson@... wrote:

> Worth  quoting here:
>
> "Wikipedia could not be reached for  comment.">>
> -----------------
>  
> The coffee I had this morning was crappy.  The coffee could not be  reached
> for comment.
> Wikipedia is not a person who can comment.  In fact Wikipedia is not a  
> person or even sentient or even living.
>  
> How exactly do you get comment from Wikipedia anyway?
> Oops I stepped in that one....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonymy

    Metonymy example: The White House supports the bill (using The White
    House instead of the President. The President is not like The White
    House, but there is contiguity between them...


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[Thomas Dalton]

2009/6/27  <wjhonson@...>:
>
>  OK but apply it.
> Who do you ask at "Wikipedia" for comment.
> And how do you state "Wikipedia could not be reached for comment" ?

Well, I would click the "Contact Wikipedia" link in the sidebar,
personally. Given that it says "Contact Wikipedia" not "Contact a
representative of the Wikimedia movement", I think we can excuse the
equally imprecise (but concise) language used by the journalist.

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[Phil Nash-2]

Ken Arromdee wrote:

>> It's like a BLP except that the subject isn't a person.  The same
>> problems come up--ultimately, if a city can't attract professionals
>> because of a bad Wikipedia article, it's still real people being
>> hurt in real-life ways by
>> us.  Just not one at a time.  It's also like BLP in that the city's
>> marginally notable and probably isn't on a lot of watchlists.
>>
>> Maybe we should expand the BLP concept to include organizations,
>> cities, etc.? Like BLP, it's most needed when the group is small.
>> There won't be
>> Biography of Living Organization problems on Coca-Cola any more than
>> there will be BLP problems on Bill Gates.  But BLO problems on small
>> cities (or small companies, etc.) where the Wikipedia entry is the
>> top search result, can wreak havoc.

[[WP:UNDUE]] should cover this. I wouldn't want a BLP analogy to
settlements, because most major cities tend to have crime, simply because of
the opportunities that exist; but to have an analogous policy for all
settlements would seem to be over-egging the pudding somewhat.



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[Cary Bass-4]

Thomas Dalton wrote:

> 2009/6/27  <wjhonson@...>:
>  
>>  OK but apply it.
>> Who do you ask at "Wikipedia" for comment.
>> And how do you state "Wikipedia could not be reached for comment" ?
>>    
>
> Well, I would click the "Contact Wikipedia" link in the sidebar,
> personally. Given that it says "Contact Wikipedia" not "Contact a
> representative of the Wikimedia movement", I think we can excuse the
> equally imprecise (but concise) language used by the journalist.
>  

I'm fairly certain Wikipedia was off hiking in the Appalachians when
they tried to call.

Cary

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[Carcharoth]

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:43 AM, Cary Bass<cary@...> wrote:

> Thomas Dalton wrote:
>> 2009/6/27  <wjhonson@...>:
>>
>>>  OK but apply it.
>>> Who do you ask at "Wikipedia" for comment.
>>> And how do you state "Wikipedia could not be reached for comment" ?
>>>
>>
>> Well, I would click the "Contact Wikipedia" link in the sidebar,
>> personally. Given that it says "Contact Wikipedia" not "Contact a
>> representative of the Wikimedia movement", I think we can excuse the
>> equally imprecise (but concise) language used by the journalist.
>>
> I'm fairly certain Wikipedia was off hiking in the Appalachians when
> they tried to call.

And Wikipedia had left it's satellite phone at home...

Carcharoth

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[Jussi-Ville Heiskanen]

Ken Arromdee wrote:

> It's like a BLP except that the subject isn't a person.  The same problems
> come up--ultimately, if a city can't attract professionals because of a bad
> Wikipedia article, it's still real people being hurt in real-life ways by
> us.  Just not one at a time.  It's also like BLP in that the city's marginally
> notable and probably isn't on a lot of watchlists.
>
> Maybe we should expand the BLP concept to include organizations, cities, etc.?
> Like BLP, it's most needed when the group is small.  There won't be
> Biography of Living Organization problems on Coca-Cola any more than there
> will be BLP problems on Bill Gates.  But BLO problems on small cities (or
> small companies, etc.) where the Wikipedia entry is the top search result,
> can wreak havoc.
>
>
>  

I would call it AOSO, or Articles on Organizations Still in Operation.


Yours,

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen




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[Fred Bauder-2]

> Ken Arromdee wrote:
>> It's like a BLP except that the subject isn't a person.  The same
>> problems
>> come up--ultimately, if a city can't attract professionals because of a
>> bad
>> Wikipedia article, it's still real people being hurt in real-life ways
>> by
>> us.  Just not one at a time.  It's also like BLP in that the city's
>> marginally
>> notable and probably isn't on a lot of watchlists.
>>
>> Maybe we should expand the BLP concept to include organizations,
>> cities, etc.?
>> Like BLP, it's most needed when the group is small.  There won't be
>> Biography of Living Organization problems on Coca-Cola any more than
>> there
>> will be BLP problems on Bill Gates.  But BLO problems on small cities
>> (or
>> small companies, etc.) where the Wikipedia entry is the top search
>> result,
>> can wreak havoc.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I would call it AOSO, or Articles on Organizations Still in Operation.
>
>
> Yours,
>
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>

The arbitration committee has held that the principles of Biographies of
living persons apply to organizations:

Articles regarding ongoing enterprises

2) The principles of editing articles about ongoing enterprises are
analogous to those which govern Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons.
As applied to this matter, unsourced or poorly sourced negative material
may be removed without discussion, such removal being an exception to the
3 revert rule
Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Remove_unsourced_criticism. This
extension of policy is based on the proposition that any unsourced or
poorly sourced negative material is potentially harmful.

    Passed 6 to 0 at 14:24, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Hunger#Articles_regarding_ongoing_enterprises

However Wikipedia:Articles about ongoing enterprises failed to reach
consensus.

Fred Bauder



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[Carcharoth]

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Fred Bauder<fredbaud@...> wrote:

<snip>

> However Wikipedia:Articles about ongoing enterprises failed to reach
> consensus.

Wouldn't it have been simpler to include a paragraph in BLP (though
that is rather big now)?

Carcharoth

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[Fred Bauder-2]

> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Fred Bauder<fredbaud@...>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> However Wikipedia:Articles about ongoing enterprises failed to reach
>> consensus.
>
> Wouldn't it have been simpler to include a paragraph in BLP (though
> that is rather big now)?
>
> Carcharoth
>

What I did, and I originated the proposed policy, is include a sentence
or two and a link to the proposed policy, combined with some mailing list
posts.

Please finish the job, if you can. Clearly, business, organizations, and
towns can also suffer both embarrassment and damages from libel and
unfounded negative information.

Fred



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[Ken Arromdee]

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009, Fred Bauder wrote:
> The arbitration committee has held that the principles of Biographies of
> living persons apply to organizations:

I thought that arbcom doesn't make policy, so its decision only applies to that
particular case.


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[Ken Arromdee]

Also, the way that ongoing enterprises page is written, it doesn't seem to
be very meaningful for anything other than a company.  For instance, an
article about a city might be edited by a resident of the city, who isn't an
employee or agent (and in general has a weaker conflict of interest, since
a city can't fire its residents).


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