Willing to help with spanish translation

[Emerson Posadas-2]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello. I'm willing to help with the spanish translation of picard.
A guy in IRC tell me to watch at this URL
(http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/PicardTranslation?highlight=%28%28CategoryDevelopment%29%29)
to see the current languages and their status. So i downloaded the .po
file. What's next? send the translated file to this list?

Thanks.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEH0bQ76YHuLjcnvURAsF8AKC0KkhOrOydWVS6SbbZWNv28TFBCQCg1L3k
oEaxeQUwWP7Lz/n2+21p3Cg=
=fGrf
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Mika Heiska-2]

This reminded me of my ongoing work on the Finnish translation. A
question about poEdit. Everytime I save the document I get an error
message that says

msgfmt: D:\Temp\fi.po: some header fields still have the initial default
value
msgfmt: found 1 fatal error


What does that mean and how can I get rid of that error? It appears to
save the document fine despite that though, so I'm a little baffled.

On a related note, I have an updated fi.po done. All 186 strings are now
translated, but 68 of them are fuzzy, so it still needs work. The
vocabulary of picard is a bit strange so coming up with decent
translations for some terms is a bit of pain in the ass.

Anyway, here's the updated fi.po http://www.bob.lintbox.net/files/fi.po
_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Emerson Posadas-2]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mika Heiska wrote:
>
> What does that mean and how can I get rid of that error? It appears to
> save the document fine despite that though, so I'm a little baffled.
>
> On a related note, I have an updated fi.po done. All 186 strings are now
> translated, but 68 of them are fuzzy, so it still needs work. The
> vocabulary of picard is a bit strange so coming up with decent
> translations for some terms is a bit of pain in the ass.

I thought it was just my imagination. But now i see that i'm not the
only one with translation difficulties. In fact, there are also some
strings that i can't translate or i have to think a lot on how to
translate them into Spanish.

> Anyway, here's the updated fi.po http://www.bob.lintbox.net/files/fi.po

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEIDnT76YHuLjcnvURAgoqAKDFbws8E0fUz0ap7jcav5q00ReTyQCcCQpB
Ergq1oDkMaff4NtZDOQqOrg=
=K9eR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Mika Heiska-2]

One big problem I have is the grammar rules of Finnish, which are hugely
different from English. Generally this is not bad, but in cases where
the beginning and the end are on a different string, such as
"When matching tracks to albums, accept tracks that are at least" and
"Automatically move clusters to albums that are at least"
in combination with the "percent similar." string gives me headache
because of different grammar rules. Directly translating this makes it
pretty bad Finnish (tough understandable) but I'm sure I will figure out
a decent solution for it in the end.


~Kilu

Emerson Posadas wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> I thought it was just my imagination. But now i see that i'm not the
> only one with translation difficulties. In fact, there are also some
> strings that i can't translate or i have to think a lot on how to
> translate them into Spanish.

_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

Hi,

first of all, thanks for the translation!

Mika Heiska wrote:
> One big problem I have is the grammar rules of Finnish, which are hugely
> different from English. Generally this is not bad, but in cases where
> the beginning and the end are on a different string, such as
> "When matching tracks to albums, accept tracks that are at least" and
> "Automatically move clusters to albums that are at least"
> in combination with the "percent similar." string gives me headache
> because of different grammar rules.

Do you have any suggestion how to make this "language neutral"?
_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Mika Heiska-2]

Lukáš Lalinský wrote:

> Hi,
>
> first of all, thanks for the translation!
>
> Mika Heiska wrote:
>> One big problem I have is the grammar rules of Finnish, which are
>> hugely different from English. Generally this is not bad, but in cases
>> where the beginning and the end are on a different string, such as
>> "When matching tracks to albums, accept tracks that are at least" and
>> "Automatically move clusters to albums that are at least"
>> in combination with the "percent similar." string gives me headache
>> because of different grammar rules.
>
> Do you have any suggestion how to make this "language neutral"?

Unfortunately no, not right now anyway. I'm going to have to think about
it a bit more, I'll let you know if I think of anything substantial.

~Kilu
_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Alexander Dupuy]

>> One big problem I have is the grammar rules of Finnish, which are
>> hugely different from English. Generally this is not bad, but in
>> cases where the beginning and the end are on a different string, such as
>> "When matching tracks to albums, accept tracks that are at least" and
>> "Automatically move clusters to albums that are at least"
>> in combination with the "percent similar." string gives me headache
>> because of different grammar rules.
>
>
> Do you have any suggestion how to make this "language neutral"?

The way to make these "language neutral" is to embed the number (in this
case) the percentage value into the string.

So rather than having two strings: "Automatically move clusters to
albums that are at least" and "percent similar." you would have one
string: "Automatically move clusters to albums that are at least %d
percent similar."  You can then translate this idiomatically into
Spanish or Finnish in a way that doesn't have to fight to make the text
after the number the same for both this case and the tracks to albums
case, as they happen to be in English.

Note that this does *not* fully solve the issue of language neutrality
in general, because with numbers there are sometimes issues with noun
agreement and pluralization.  In English, we say "0 days," "1 day," "2
days," "3 days," etcetera, but in Russian, there would be a different
form of the word "day" for nearly all of these cases, not just the
special case for 1 day.

However, parameterizing the numbers is a start, and for percentages, the
agreement issues are not significant.

@alex

_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Mika Heiska-2]

Alexander Dupuy wrote:

>
>>> One big problem I have is the grammar rules of Finnish, which are
>>> hugely different from English. Generally this is not bad, but in
>>> cases where the beginning and the end are on a different string, such as
>>> "When matching tracks to albums, accept tracks that are at least" and
>>> "Automatically move clusters to albums that are at least"
>>> in combination with the "percent similar." string gives me headache
>>> because of different grammar rules.
>>
>>
>> Do you have any suggestion how to make this "language neutral"?
>
>
> The way to make these "language neutral" is to embed the number (in this
> case) the percentage value into the string.
>
> So rather than having two strings: "Automatically move clusters to
> albums that are at least" and "percent similar." you would have one
> string: "Automatically move clusters to albums that are at least %d
> percent similar."  You can then translate this idiomatically into
> Spanish or Finnish in a way that doesn't have to fight to make the text
> after the number the same for both this case and the tracks to albums
> case, as they happen to be in English.
>
> Note that this does *not* fully solve the issue of language neutrality
> in general, because with numbers there are sometimes issues with noun
> agreement and pluralization.  In English, we say "0 days," "1 day," "2
> days," "3 days," etcetera, but in Russian, there would be a different
> form of the word "day" for nearly all of these cases, not just the
> special case for 1 day.
>
> However, parameterizing the numbers is a start, and for percentages, the
> agreement issues are not significant.
>
> @alex

How would this kind of change translate to picards layout though? As in,
where would the % input box be? Would it change place according to where
the %d is on the string?

~Kilu
_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Alexander Dupuy]

Mika Heiska wrote:

> How would this kind of change translate to picards layout though? As
> in, where would the % input box be? Would it change place according to
> where the %d is on the string?


Not having used Picard, I didn't realize that the number before and
after was an input box, not just displayed text.

In this case, probably the best way to handle it is to use a special
character (e.g. '#') in the localization string to mark the location of
the input box.  The Picard code would take the prompt string, localize
it, then split it into two strings at the point where # appears, then
use these two strings.  It's a bit more coding, but that's always the
case when making a more internationalized application.

@alex

_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Mika Heiska-2]

Hi.

After the release of 0.70beta2 I started fixing some of the errors
present in the translation, and noticed couple things that are kind of
strange. First of
"The MusicBrainz Tagger requires wx.Widgets with UNICODE support.\n
Please download the appropriate toolkit from  http://www.wxwidgets.com "

www.wxwidgets.com doesn't seem to excist, perhaps it's supposed to be
http://www.wxwidgets.org ?


There are also 'Add File...' and Add Dir...' under the File menu, but
the image menu mouse tooltips are 'Open file' and 'Open directory'
eventhough they do the exact same thing.


Then there are couple strings that talk about 'MB Tagger' or just
'Tagger'. They should probably be changed to something consistent all
around. For example, when MB Tagger is mentioned, I always think of the
old tagger. Eg, "Launch MB Tagger automatically for inserted Audio CDs"
would be better if it was "Launch Picard automatically for inserted
Audio CDs" or somesuch.


~Kilu
_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

On 4/1/06, Mika Heiska <kilualmighty@...> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> After the release of 0.70beta2 I started fixing some of the errors
> present in the translation, and noticed couple things that are kind of
> strange. First of
> "The MusicBrainz Tagger requires wx.Widgets with UNICODE support.\n
> Please download the appropriate toolkit from  http://www.wxwidgets.com "
>
> www.wxwidgets.com doesn't seem to excist, perhaps it's supposed to be
> http://www.wxwidgets.org ?
>
> There are also 'Add File...' and Add Dir...' under the File menu, but
> the image menu mouse tooltips are 'Open file' and 'Open directory'
> eventhough they do the exact same thing.
>
> Then there are couple strings that talk about 'MB Tagger' or just
> 'Tagger'. They should probably be changed to something consistent all
> around. For example, when MB Tagger is mentioned, I always think of the
> old tagger. Eg, "Launch MB Tagger automatically for inserted Audio CDs"
> would be better if it was "Launch Picard automatically for inserted
> Audio CDs" or somesuch.

Sorry for not replying sooner, Gmail marked this e-mail as a spam :(

Yes, wxwidgets.com should be wxwidgets.org. And also the "MB Tagger"
strings should be replaced with "Picard", I think. But for the
menu/toolbar texts I'm not sure which one is better, "Add file" or
"Open file"?

Lukas

_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Mika Heiska-2]

Lukas Lalinsky wrote:
>But for the
> menu/toolbar texts I'm not sure which one is better, "Add file" or
> "Open file"?
>
> Lukas

Someone with English OS should chime in on this, which one is more
common? I have a feeling that the 'Open file' is used more often, but I
really can't be sure. Plus of course I'm only thinking about Windows
world, I have no idea if other OS' have different naming standards.

~Kilu
_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Alexander Dupuy]

Mika Heiska wrote:

> Someone with English OS should chime in on this, which one is more
> common? I have a feeling that the 'Open file' is used more often, but
> I really can't be sure. Plus of course I'm only thinking about Windows
> world, I have no idea if other OS' have different naming standards.


Add File vs. Open File - I would say that if the operation creates a new
window that shows the file in some way, it should be "Open File".  If it
merely adds it to a list of many other files that it has opened, and is
not displayed separately, "Add File" would be a better choice.

That said, I don't think I have ever seen an "Add File" menu option on
any English OS  (Mac/MacOSX/Windows/Linux) that I have ever used.  But
that doesn't it make it wrong, or a worse choice.

@alex

_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Mika Heiska-2]

Alexander Dupuy wrote:

> Mika Heiska wrote:
>
>> Someone with English OS should chime in on this, which one is more
>> common? I have a feeling that the 'Open file' is used more often, but
>> I really can't be sure. Plus of course I'm only thinking about Windows
>> world, I have no idea if other OS' have different naming standards.
>
>
> Add File vs. Open File - I would say that if the operation creates a new
> window that shows the file in some way, it should be "Open File".  If it
> merely adds it to a list of many other files that it has opened, and is
> not displayed separately, "Add File" would be a better choice.
>
> That said, I don't think I have ever seen an "Add File" menu option on
> any English OS  (Mac/MacOSX/Windows/Linux) that I have ever used.  But
> that doesn't it make it wrong, or a worse choice.
>
> @alex

The operation adds a file or files (incase of a dir) to the 'new files'
folder to be scanned. So I guess the question is, should we use what is
standard (Open), or what is actually right and makes more sense (Add)? :)

On a sidenote, I used 'Add' for all the places in the Finnish
translation, eventhough the Finnish standard is also equivalent to 'Open'.

~Kilu
_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n

[Nikki-12]

On Tue, Apr 04, 2006 at 10:39:58AM -0400, Alexander Dupuy wrote:

> Add File vs. Open File - I would say that if the operation creates a new
> window that shows the file in some way, it should be "Open File".  If it
> merely adds it to a list of many other files that it has opened, and is
> not displayed separately, "Add File" would be a better choice.
>
> That said, I don't think I have ever seen an "Add File" menu option on
> any English OS  (Mac/MacOSX/Windows/Linux) that I have ever used.  But
> that doesn't it make it wrong, or a worse choice.

I would definitely choose "Add File". The main action I associate with
opening music files is playing them. Picard doesn't open them in the sense
people think about opening files, we're not exposed to the music in the
file at all.

--Nikki
_______________________________________________
MusicBrainz-i18n mailing list
MusicBrainz-i18n@...
http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-i18n