Window manager interaction

[Philippe Roussel]

Hi all,

When using GNUstep applications under a Gnome desktop and it's
Metacity window manager, I often 'lose' those applications : if I
minimize a windows, it appears in the task bar as expected but if I
hide the application there's nothing left in the task bar. The only
solution seems to launch the application again to get it back.

I'm running with GSAppOwnsMiniwindow set to NO and GSSuppressAppIcon
set to YES as I don't want AppIcons to appear on the desktop.

Is it the intended behavior ? Did I miss something ?

Thanks,
Philippe
--
NT is to UNIX what a doughnut is to a particle accelerator.



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[Riccardo Mottola-4]

Hi,

I don't think it is expected, I get a similar behaviour with WIndowMaker.

I put the application in the background, it looses its windows and I
can't get it to the front again.

Also the icon does not have the small "dot" which shows it is minimized.
Also it does not respond to right-click on the icon: the windowmaker
menu shows up.

Indeed, doing another gopen  of the apps, makes it pop-up again with all
the windows!

Riccardo


Philippe Roussel wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> When using GNUstep applications under a Gnome desktop and it's
> Metacity window manager, I often 'lose' those applications : if I
> minimize a windows, it appears in the task bar as expected but if I
> hide the application there's nothing left in the task bar. The only
> solution seems to launch the application again to get it back.
>
> I'm running with GSAppOwnsMiniwindow set to NO and GSSuppressAppIcon
> set to YES as I don't want AppIcons to appear on the desktop.
>
> Is it the intended behavior ? Did I miss something ?
>
> Thanks,
> Philippe
>  

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[Philippe Roussel]

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:13:19AM +0200, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
> Hi,

Hi Riccardo

> I don't think it is expected, I get a similar behaviour with WIndowMaker.
>
> I put the application in the background, it looses its windows and I  
> can't get it to the front again.
>
> Also the icon does not have the small "dot" which shows it is minimized.  
> Also it does not respond to right-click on the icon: the windowmaker  
> menu shows up.

I think that's a different problem : I don't have an icon where to put
a small dot as I set GSSuppressAppIcon to YES. In my case everything
disappear, not a single pixel left on the screen !
Maybe you're refering to an icon in windowmaker dock ?

By the way, to clarify, when I said 'hide' the application, I meant
using the Hide menu item.

Philippe
--
Sans le kangourou, l'homme n'aurait jamais su qu'il ne possede pas de poche marsupiale. Alexandre Vialatte



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[Charles philip Chan]

Riccardo Mottola <multix@...> writes:

> I don't think it is expected, I get a similar behaviour with
> WIndowMaker.

No problems here.

> I put the application in the background, it looses its windows and I
> can't get it to the front again.

I have no problems clicking the appicon to get the windows back for both
hidden GNUstep and non-Gnustep apps.

> Also the icon does not have the small "dot" which shows it is
> minimized. Also it does not respond to right-click on the icon: the
> windowmaker menu shows up.

Right clicking on a hidden GNustep app's appicon brings up the
application's menu for me.

Which version of Window Maker are you using. I am using the last updated
cvs tree.

Charles

--
"Open Standards, Open Documents, and Open Source"

  -- Scott Bradner (Open Sources, 1999 O'Reilly and Associates)


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[Richard Frith-Macdonald-2]

On 15 Oct 2009, at 21:34, Philippe Roussel wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> When using GNUstep applications under a Gnome desktop and it's
> Metacity window manager, I often 'lose' those applications : if I
> minimize a windows, it appears in the task bar as expected but if I
> hide the application there's nothing left in the task bar. The only
> solution seems to launch the application again to get it back.
>
> I'm running with GSAppOwnsMiniwindow set to NO and GSSuppressAppIcon
> set to YES as I don't want AppIcons to appear on the desktop.
>
> Is it the intended behavior ? Did I miss something ?

The documentation says:

GSSuppressAppIcon
A boolean value, NO by default. Specifies wether the application icon  
window should not be displayed. Set to YES for background server  
applications.

I think the expectation is that, if you have set GSSuppressAppIcon to  
YES, it's because your app is not intended to appear on-screen (I  
think that's what 'background server' means), or that your window  
manager will be handling activation of the app some other way.


The other default (GSAppOwnsMiniwindow) is the one which is supposed  
to control whether miniwindows are controlled by the application or by  
the window manager, and if that's set to 'NO' then (as I understand  
it) the miniwindows should not appear on the desktop.  I'm not sure  
how well this works though.


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[Philippe Roussel]

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 07:29:59AM +0100, Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:

> The documentation says:
>
> GSSuppressAppIcon
> A boolean value, NO by default. Specifies wether the application icon  
> window should not be displayed. Set to YES for background server  
> applications.
>
> I think the expectation is that, if you have set GSSuppressAppIcon to  
> YES, it's because your app is not intended to appear on-screen (I think
> that's what 'background server' means), or that your window manager will
> be handling activation of the app some other way.

Well, yes, but that's the only way I know of to suppress the AppIcon.
I just want the windows of my applications to appear on the screen and
in the taskbar.

> The other default (GSAppOwnsMiniwindow) is the one which is supposed to
> control whether miniwindows are controlled by the application or by the
> window manager, and if that's set to 'NO' then (as I understand it) the
> miniwindows should not appear on the desktop.  I'm not sure how well this
> works though.

It works quite well. If set to YES, when I minimize a window, this
window disappears from the taskbar and becomes a miniwindow. If set to
NO, the window remains in the taskbar and there's no miniwindow.

In my case, if the 'Hide' menu item just minimized the application
windows, GNUstep applications would behave like other applications.

I'll add my commments to the bug Fred pointed to.

Thanks,
Philippe
--
Sur le plus beau trône du monde, on n'est jamais assis que sur son cul ! Montaigne



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[Riccardo Mottola-4]

Hi,

Philippe Roussel wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:13:19AM +0200, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
>  
>> Hi,
>>    
>
> Hi Riccardo
>
>  
>> I don't think it is expected, I get a similar behaviour with WIndowMaker.
>>
>> I put the application in the background, it looses its windows and I  
>> can't get it to the front again.
>>
>> Also the icon does not have the small "dot" which shows it is minimized.  
>> Also it does not respond to right-click on the icon: the windowmaker  
>> menu shows up.
>>    
>
> I think that's a different problem : I don't have an icon where to put
> a small dot as I set GSSuppressAppIcon to YES. In my case everything
> disappear, not a single pixel left on the screen !
> Maybe you're refering to an icon in windowmaker dock ?
>
> By the way, to clarify, when I said 'hide' the application, I meant
> using the Hide menu item.
>  

Well, if I did not have the AppIcon, I'd have no pixel left either.
I'm running 0.92 on Freebsd, but I had the same on linux debian, linux
gentoo, x86, ppc... it is a long-standing problem.

It does not happen "always" or I'd have filed a bug for it. It affects
of course only GNUstep apps, but I do not know if interaction with
non-gnustep apps plays a role.

Riccardo


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[Wolfgang Lux-3]

Riccardo Mottola wrote:

> Well, if I did not have the AppIcon, I'd have no pixel left either.
> I'm running 0.92 on Freebsd, but I had the same on linux debian,  
> linux gentoo, x86, ppc... it is a long-standing problem.
>
> It does not happen "always" or I'd have filed a bug for it. It  
> affects of course only GNUstep apps, but I do not know if  
> interaction with non-gnustep apps plays a role.

I think this problem is related to (or the same as) the one I  
reported in bug #26438. The problem essentially seems to be that  
WindowMaker lets a GNUstep application manage the appicon only if it  
is the first window created. If the appicon is not the first window,  
WindowMaker takes over responsibility for the appicon itself. This  
problem can be reproduced (at least) when you start the first GNUstep  
application in a fresh X session and also when you set the user  
default GSIgnoreRootOffsets to YES, because in both cases -back  
attempts to determine the size of the window decorations before  
creating the appicon.

Wolfgang


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[Wolfgang Lux]

Riccardo Mottola wrote:

> Well, if I did not have the AppIcon, I'd have no pixel left either.
> I'm running 0.92 on Freebsd, but I had the same on linux debian,  
> linux gentoo, x86, ppc... it is a long-standing problem.
>
> It does not happen "always" or I'd have filed a bug for it. It  
> affects of course only GNUstep apps, but I do not know if  
> interaction with non-gnustep apps plays a role.

I think this problem is related to (or the same as) the one I  
reported in bug #26438. The problem essentially seems to be that  
WindowMaker lets a GNUstep application manage the appicon only if it  
is the first window created. If the appicon is not the first window,  
WindowMaker takes over responsibility for the appicon itself. This  
problem can be reproduced (at least) when you start the first GNUstep  
application in a fresh X session and also when you set the user  
default GSIgnoreRootOffsets to YES, because in both cases -back  
attempts to determine the size of the window decorations before  
creating the appicon.

Wolfgang


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[Aria Stewart]

On Oct 18, 2009, at 12:04 PM, Wolfgang Lux wrote:

>
> I feel unsure about mac-style menus. Classic Mac OS was similar to  
> OS X and NeXTstep in that applications normally did not quit when  
> their last window is closed. You could also hide and unhide  
> applications as on OS X. For that reason I would think the right  
> default for mac-style menus would me NO.
>
> On the other hand, Classic Mac OS also had an application switcher,  
> a menu at the right end of the menubar that allowed you to switch to  
> any running application (whether hidden or not). Yet, I expect that  
> it is unlikely that anybody would (want to) implement such an  
> application switcher for Mac style menus, so returning YES makes  
> sense to me too.
>

Could have a dock ... And actually, if good specs get written for  
handling drawing on app icons in a cross-environment manner, it'd be a  
prime opportunity for Gnustep to shine. Write a good dock and let the  
gnome folks get all excited about using it.


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