WordPress Bike Shed Mailing List

[Matt Martz-2]

I've got this great idea.  My idea is to create a wp-bikeshed mailing
list so that all of you on this list have a place to argue endlessly
and never come to any decisions, without disrupting everyone's inboxes
with your pointless spam.

I realise you all may think you are helping move the project along but
in the end what you are doing is pushing the people who contribute the
most to WordPress off of this mailing list.  It seems like at least
once a year a user starts a flame war and I and many others end up
leaving the list because of this type of discussion, to only come back
sometime later and find the same thing happening again.  If you want
to help move the project along write a patch and submit it.  If there
are enough people who want it in core it will likely go in.  Arguing
endlessly and never coming to a decision and never acting upon what
you want is absolutely maddening.

I just want to write the damn patch and submit it so you people will
stop making my phone ding every 3 seconds to find out it is a reply to
one of these pointless conversations.

Anyway, that is my idea.  Anyone like it?  Anyone from Automattic want
to make my dream a realisation?

--
Matt Martz
matt@...
http://sivel.net/
_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
wp-hackers@...
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers

[Otto-19]

Why are you getting a mailing list in your inbox? Make a folder, make
a rule that moves messages to the list into that folder. Check the
folder whenever you like.

As somebody who receives 600+ emails a day, filtering rules are a *must*.

If you use GMail, then use the rule:
Has the Words: listid:"wp-hackers.lists.automattic.com"

To match everything in the list.

-Otto



On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Matt Martz <matt@...> wrote:

> I've got this great idea.  My idea is to create a wp-bikeshed mailing
> list so that all of you on this list have a place to argue endlessly
> and never come to any decisions, without disrupting everyone's inboxes
> with your pointless spam.
>
> I realise you all may think you are helping move the project along but
> in the end what you are doing is pushing the people who contribute the
> most to WordPress off of this mailing list.  It seems like at least
> once a year a user starts a flame war and I and many others end up
> leaving the list because of this type of discussion, to only come back
> sometime later and find the same thing happening again.  If you want
> to help move the project along write a patch and submit it.  If there
> are enough people who want it in core it will likely go in.  Arguing
> endlessly and never coming to a decision and never acting upon what
> you want is absolutely maddening.
>
> I just want to write the damn patch and submit it so you people will
> stop making my phone ding every 3 seconds to find out it is a reply to
> one of these pointless conversations.
>
> Anyway, that is my idea.  Anyone like it?  Anyone from Automattic want
> to make my dream a realisation?
>
> --
> Matt Martz
> matt@...
> http://sivel.net/
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> wp-hackers@...
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>

_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
wp-hackers@...
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers

[Andy Skelton]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Matt Martz <matt@...> wrote:
> I've got this great idea.  My idea is to create a wp-bikeshed mailing
> list so that all of you on this list have a place to argue endlessly
> and never come to any decisions, without disrupting everyone's inboxes
> with your pointless spam.

-1 for wp-bikeshed. Shed color arguments never happen in a forum
created for that purpose. Use wp-discuss.

+1 for "show me the code" and "put up or shut up". The people you are
complaining about on wp-hackers aren't actually hackers, i.e. won't
code or won't learn to code. Maybe their opinions have value but they
have subverted this list against the actual hackers. By all means
create a new list but that won't fix wp-hackers. You must repel
unwanted behavior.

I admit that my habit of Muting every wp-hackers thread doesn't help.
If that's the way I'm going to be I should unsubscribe.

Andy
_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
wp-hackers@...
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers

[Nathan Rice]

It's my fault for starting this thread (sort of) on hackers. It's obviously
better to have this discussion on wp-discuss (though I don't see a subscribe
link for wp-discuss here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Mailing_Lists)

Because these emails all come to the same inbox for me, I rarely
differentiate which list they are coming from.

Apologies.

------------------
Nathan Rice
WordPress and Web Development
www.nathanrice.net | twitter.com/nathanrice | www.modthemes.com


On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Andy Skelton <skeltoac@...> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Matt Martz <matt@...> wrote:
> > I've got this great idea.  My idea is to create a wp-bikeshed mailing
> > list so that all of you on this list have a place to argue endlessly
> > and never come to any decisions, without disrupting everyone's inboxes
> > with your pointless spam.
>
> -1 for wp-bikeshed. Shed color arguments never happen in a forum
> created for that purpose. Use wp-discuss.
>
> +1 for "show me the code" and "put up or shut up". The people you are
> complaining about on wp-hackers aren't actually hackers, i.e. won't
> code or won't learn to code. Maybe their opinions have value but they
> have subverted this list against the actual hackers. By all means
> create a new list but that won't fix wp-hackers. You must repel
> unwanted behavior.
>
> I admit that my habit of Muting every wp-hackers thread doesn't help.
> If that's the way I'm going to be I should unsubscribe.
>
> Andy
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> wp-hackers@...
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>

_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
wp-hackers@...
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers

[Lynne Pope]

2009/10/23 Andy Skelton <skeltoac@...>

> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Matt Martz <matt@...> wrote:
> > I've got this great idea.  My idea is to create a wp-bikeshed mailing
> > list so that all of you on this list have a place to argue endlessly
> > and never come to any decisions, without disrupting everyone's inboxes
> > with your pointless spam.
>
> -1 for wp-bikeshed. Shed color arguments never happen in a forum
> created for that purpose. Use wp-discuss.
>

The problem is, too many feature requests/ideas are posted to this list by
people who are asking others to make their ideas happen. Try pointing the
person to the ideas forum and a slanging match results. Try telling someone
that they should be posting support questions on the forum and the same
thing happens.

As a result of the noise people who want genuine feedback before wasting
their time creating a patch nobody wants just get drowned out, discouraged,
and give up.

Lynne
_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
wp-hackers@...
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers

[Otto-19]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Nathan Rice <ncrice@...> wrote:
> It's my fault for starting this thread (sort of) on hackers. It's obviously
> better to have this discussion on wp-discuss (though I don't see a subscribe
> link for wp-discuss here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Mailing_Lists)

wp-discuss?

I can't find that one in the lists:
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/


-Otto
Sent from Memphis, TN, United States
_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
wp-hackers@...
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers

[Nathan Rice]

Otto,
Me neither. No wonder we don't have these types of conversations there! :-)

------------------
Nathan Rice
WordPress and Web Development
www.nathanrice.net | twitter.com/nathanrice | www.modthemes.com


On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Otto <otto@...> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Nathan Rice <ncrice@...> wrote:
> > It's my fault for starting this thread (sort of) on hackers. It's
> obviously
> > better to have this discussion on wp-discuss (though I don't see a
> subscribe
> > link for wp-discuss here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Mailing_Lists)
>
> wp-discuss?
>
> I can't find that one in the lists:
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/
>
>
> -Otto
> Sent from Memphis, TN, United States
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> wp-hackers@...
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>

_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
wp-hackers@...
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers

[Andy Skelton]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Otto <otto@...> wrote:
> wp-discuss?

I was suggesting a better name than bikeshed for a non-hackers list.

Andy
_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
wp-hackers@...
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers

[Stephen Rider]

Nathan Rice said:

> It's my fault for starting this thread (sort of) on hackers.
>
> Apologies.

The CMS discussion had two aspects to it, one good, one bad.

The discussion directly regarding the *how* of a proposed "CMS" plugin was
extremely useful, not only for specific advice, but for all the support
people showed for it.  This appears to be something that a *lot* of people
want, and I will definitely work on this when I have some time.  That
discussion was *exactly* what wp-hackers is good for.

The bad side was the "is not/is too" regarding *why* someone would want
such a thing.  I allowed myself to be baited by it, and jumped right into
that fray, and I should not have done so.  Others are free to think it's a
useless idea, and they are free to not use it when it's released.  And
that's the last I will say of it here.

So I too offer an apology.  I'm sorry for helping perpetuate the "why"
discussion.  It served little purpose and went on too long.  I'll try to
avoid the useless discussions in the future.

I would also like to say thank you to everyone who offered advice, and
everyone who showed support for the idea.  In comparison to the deafening
silence that has accompanied some of my other ideas, it's encouraging to
say the least.  I'm sure I'll be popping up again to ask about how to
accomplish certain things.  Some of the ideas (and code!) presented were
*very* useful, and probably better than the ways I may have tried to do
things on my own.

And with that said, this is the last I hope to say of it until I've
written some code. ;-)

Sincerely,

Stephen Rider

_______________________________________________
wp-hackers mailing list
wp-hackers@...
http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers