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Workspaces?
by geoff@enmore
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Hi - I'm a bit
confused. I've just set up a new prototype site, synch'd with trunk, that I was
going to start using for Workspaces. But I can't find any trace of
Workspaces in trunk? I can see the Perspectives feature but nothing about
Workspaces.
I remember some
discussion about whether Workspaces should be 4.0 but I don't understand why I
can't see it in trunk - am I doing something wrong? dev.tiki... seems to be down
at the moment so I can't check that out
geoff
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Roberto Javier López Sastre
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Hi Geoff,
Worspaces are out of trunk since Nov 3. I copy Marc's email below. You are very welcome to contribute/test/whatever. Marc, maybe we can create a branch again, what do you think? In my opinion, what we need now is to get a simple and useful GUI to test the wslib Aldo and Ben did, that is to work on the ws-helper http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper Currently, the wslib is using perspectives so as to integrate the ws in tiki. It would be good idea (again my opinion) to use stuff from Aulawiki and Categories GUIs. The ws handler is in the ToDo list too. Thanks for your interest. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Marc Laporte <marc@...> Date: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 1:33 AM Subject: Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Are workspaces ready for tiki 4.0? To: Tikiwiki developers <tikiwiki-devel@...> Hi! All the workspace-related things here are working: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Roadmap However, for the workspace helper (http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper), I just tried again: 1- Most of the issues reported below have not been addressed yet 2- We are way past the feature freeze date. 3- This was not supposed to be added to trunk before some issues were addressed. So, I repeat that more time is needed to make this feature what it should be. It is promising to make it easier to manage workspaces. Thus, I will remove the workspace-helper-related code. I will try to make in a minimal number of commits so it's easy to re-instate later. (to an experimental branch or to trunk) I won't touch the rootCategId (in DB) for now, because we are so close to the release. Anyone who disagrees: 1- Please take the time to make: a) Documentation with screenshots b) A profile, for people to quickly use/understand the feature My prediction: As doing so, you will come to the same conclusion. The feature is not ready. Not even as experimental. And it would just confuse end users (who are looking for a simpler way to do things). Not to mention creating permissions in the database which are never used. I think there are some interesting things, however, the cost/benefit/risk/overhead is not there. 2- Please help Ben & Aldo make this work for Tiki5. (which may be backported to 4.1) Best regards, M ;-) On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:27 AM, geoff@enmore <geoff@...> wrote: > Hi - I'm a bit confused. I've just set up a new prototype site, synch'd with > trunk, that I was going to start using for Workspaces. But I can't find any > trace of Workspaces in trunk? I can see the Perspectives feature but nothing > about Workspaces. > > I remember some discussion about whether Workspaces should be 4.0 but I > don't understand why I can't see it in trunk - am I doing something wrong? > dev.tiki... seems to be down at the moment so I can't check that out > > geoff > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus > on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tikiwiki-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > > -- Rober ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by geoff@enmore
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OK - I can understand why its not going forward into 4.0, but if its not in
trunk either then I don't understand how it will move forward? And it surely can't make it into 4.1 since a .x 'Proposed rule' is that it has to be in trunk first. I guess everyone (including me) is focused on 4.0 release at the moment but I had assumed Workspaces still had 'life' ? geoff -----Original Message----- From: rober.lopez.sastre@... [mailto:rober.lopez.sastre@...] On Behalf Of Roberto Javier López Sastre Sent: 07 November 2009 11:01 To: geoff@...; Tikiwiki developers Subject: Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Workspaces? Hi Geoff, Worspaces are out of trunk since Nov 3. I copy Marc's email below. You are very welcome to contribute/test/whatever. Marc, maybe we can create a branch again, what do you think? In my opinion, what we need now is to get a simple and useful GUI to test the wslib Aldo and Ben did, that is to work on the ws-helper http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper Currently, the wslib is using perspectives so as to integrate the ws in tiki. It would be good idea (again my opinion) to use stuff from Aulawiki and Categories GUIs. The ws handler is in the ToDo list too. Thanks for your interest. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Marc Laporte <marc@...> Date: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 1:33 AM Subject: Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Are workspaces ready for tiki 4.0? To: Tikiwiki developers <tikiwiki-devel@...> Hi! All the workspace-related things here are working: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Roadmap However, for the workspace helper (http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper), I just tried again: 1- Most of the issues reported below have not been addressed yet 2- We are way past the feature freeze date. 3- This was not supposed to be added to trunk before some issues were addressed. So, I repeat that more time is needed to make this feature what it should be. It is promising to make it easier to manage workspaces. Thus, I will remove the workspace-helper-related code. I will try to make in a minimal number of commits so it's easy to re-instate later. (to an experimental branch or to trunk) I won't touch the rootCategId (in DB) for now, because we are so close to the release. Anyone who disagrees: 1- Please take the time to make: a) Documentation with screenshots b) A profile, for people to quickly use/understand the feature My prediction: As doing so, you will come to the same conclusion. The feature is not ready. Not even as experimental. And it would just confuse end users (who are looking for a simpler way to do things). Not to mention creating permissions in the database which are never used. I think there are some interesting things, however, the cost/benefit/risk/overhead is not there. 2- Please help Ben & Aldo make this work for Tiki5. (which may be backported to 4.1) Best regards, M ;-) On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:27 AM, geoff@enmore <geoff@...> wrote: > Hi - I'm a bit confused. I've just set up a new prototype site, > synch'd with trunk, that I was going to start using for Workspaces. > But I can't find any trace of Workspaces in trunk? I can see the > Perspectives feature but nothing about Workspaces. > > I remember some discussion about whether Workspaces should be 4.0 but > I don't understand why I can't see it in trunk - am I doing something wrong? > dev.tiki... seems to be down at the moment so I can't check that out > > geoff > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal > Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration > and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application > coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tikiwiki-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > > -- Rober No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 19:39:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 19:39:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by gary_c
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Yeah, I was really surprised to hear this. I thought it was agreed
before that workspaces was going to stay in trunk. The files have really been removed? -- Gary geoff@enmore wrote: > OK - I can understand why its not going forward into 4.0, but if its not in > trunk either then I don't understand how it will move forward? And it surely > can't make it into 4.1 since a .x 'Proposed rule' is that it has to be in > trunk first. > > I guess everyone (including me) is focused on 4.0 release at the moment but > I had assumed Workspaces still had 'life' ? > > geoff > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rober.lopez.sastre@... [mailto:rober.lopez.sastre@...] On > Behalf Of Roberto Javier López Sastre > Sent: 07 November 2009 11:01 > To: geoff@...; Tikiwiki developers > Subject: Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Workspaces? > > Hi Geoff, > Worspaces are out of trunk since Nov 3. I copy Marc's email below. > You are very welcome to contribute/test/whatever. > > Marc, maybe we can create a branch again, what do you think? > > In my opinion, what we need now is to get a simple and useful GUI to test > the wslib Aldo and Ben did, that is to work on the ws-helper > http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper > Currently, the wslib is using perspectives so as to integrate the ws in > tiki. > > It would be good idea (again my opinion) to use stuff from Aulawiki and > Categories GUIs. > > The ws handler is in the ToDo list too. > > Thanks for your interest. > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Marc Laporte <marc@...> > Date: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 1:33 AM > Subject: Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Are workspaces ready for tiki 4.0? > To: Tikiwiki developers <tikiwiki-devel@...> > > > Hi! > > All the workspace-related things here are working: > http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Roadmap > > However, for the workspace helper > (http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper), I just tried again: > > 1- Most of the issues reported below have not been addressed yet > 2- We are way past the feature freeze date. > 3- This was not supposed to be added to trunk before some issues were > addressed. > > So, I repeat that more time is needed to make this feature what it should > be. It is promising to make it easier to manage workspaces. > > Thus, I will remove the workspace-helper-related code. I will try to make in > a minimal number of commits so it's easy to re-instate later. > (to an experimental branch or to trunk) > > I won't touch the rootCategId (in DB) for now, because we are so close to > the release. > > > Anyone who disagrees: > 1- Please take the time to make: > a) Documentation with screenshots > b) A profile, for people to quickly use/understand the feature > > My prediction: As doing so, you will come to the same conclusion. The > feature is not ready. Not even as experimental. And it would just confuse > end users (who are looking for a simpler way to do things). > Not to mention creating permissions in the database which are never used. I > think there are some interesting things, however, the > cost/benefit/risk/overhead is not there. > > 2- Please help Ben & Aldo make this work for Tiki5. (which may be backported > to 4.1) > > Best regards, > > M ;-) > > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:27 AM, geoff@enmore <geoff@...> > wrote: >> Hi - I'm a bit confused. I've just set up a new prototype site, >> synch'd with trunk, that I was going to start using for Workspaces. >> But I can't find any trace of Workspaces in trunk? I can see the >> Perspectives feature but nothing about Workspaces. >> >> I remember some discussion about whether Workspaces should be 4.0 but >> I don't understand why I can't see it in trunk - am I doing something > wrong? >> dev.tiki... seems to be down at the moment so I can't check that out >> >> geoff >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -------- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal >> Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration >> and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application >> coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july >> _______________________________________________ >> Tikiwiki-devel mailing list >> Tikiwiki-devel@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel >> >> > > > > -- > Rober > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 > 19:39:00 > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 > 19:39:00 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tikiwiki-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 19:39:00 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Aldo-2
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Hi Geoff,
first of all thank you for your interest ;) The problem itself about Workspaces is I can not continue here developing and testing the code as I did the last year, because I have to attend to my studies. So, as Marc said a couple of emails before, Workspaces are not ready and we need, somehow, help to continue this task. Marc, maybe we can create a branch again, what do you think? It's mandatory to create a new branch and focus the development there. In my opinion, what we need now is to get a simple and useful GUI to IMHO, I think it's better to test if wslib is good enough to support the Workspaces overload in db (if not, recode it). Then, the next task is to work in WS Handler, and finally, create and test the simple GUI. I talked with Ben yesterday, and he is out of the project. He don't want continue here in Tiki. So, I'm alone :( because in my case I will stay here until I see this task done. On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 12:52 PM, geoff@enmore <geoff@...> wrote: OK - I can understand why its not going forward into 4.0, but if its not in -- Aldo Borrero González Estudiante de Ingeniería Técnica en Informática de Sistemas Universidad de Alcalá de Henares ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Nelson Ko
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All the underlying functionality for workspaces is encapsulated in the
Perspectives, Category Jailroot, Category/Group Transition features that are in 4.x. The only thing that is not working is the Workspaces Configuration UI and wslib (and I believe this is removed from 4.x). However, from what I can see, all workspace functionality are workable through Profiles. Through Data Channels it is also possible to create runtime widgets (plugins) that do workspace-type operations. We intend to create profiles and possibly plugins that use data channels to do workspace functionality in 4.0. I'm going to spend some time creating some prototype of how this would work over the next week to show how you can create "workspaces" even without wslib through using profiles/data channels. Nelson nkoth On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Gary Cunningham-Lee <gary_c@...> wrote: > Yeah, I was really surprised to hear this. I thought it was agreed > before that workspaces was going to stay in trunk. The files have really > been removed? > > -- Gary > > geoff@enmore wrote: >> OK - I can understand why its not going forward into 4.0, but if its not in >> trunk either then I don't understand how it will move forward? And it surely >> can't make it into 4.1 since a .x 'Proposed rule' is that it has to be in >> trunk first. >> >> I guess everyone (including me) is focused on 4.0 release at the moment but >> I had assumed Workspaces still had 'life' ? >> >> geoff >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rober.lopez.sastre@... [mailto:rober.lopez.sastre@...] On >> Behalf Of Roberto Javier López Sastre >> Sent: 07 November 2009 11:01 >> To: geoff@...; Tikiwiki developers >> Subject: Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Workspaces? >> >> Hi Geoff, >> Worspaces are out of trunk since Nov 3. I copy Marc's email below. >> You are very welcome to contribute/test/whatever. >> >> Marc, maybe we can create a branch again, what do you think? >> >> In my opinion, what we need now is to get a simple and useful GUI to test >> the wslib Aldo and Ben did, that is to work on the ws-helper >> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper >> Currently, the wslib is using perspectives so as to integrate the ws in >> tiki. >> >> It would be good idea (again my opinion) to use stuff from Aulawiki and >> Categories GUIs. >> >> The ws handler is in the ToDo list too. >> >> Thanks for your interest. >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Marc Laporte <marc@...> >> Date: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 1:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Are workspaces ready for tiki 4.0? >> To: Tikiwiki developers <tikiwiki-devel@...> >> >> >> Hi! >> >> All the workspace-related things here are working: >> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Roadmap >> >> However, for the workspace helper >> (http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper), I just tried again: >> >> 1- Most of the issues reported below have not been addressed yet >> 2- We are way past the feature freeze date. >> 3- This was not supposed to be added to trunk before some issues were >> addressed. >> >> So, I repeat that more time is needed to make this feature what it should >> be. It is promising to make it easier to manage workspaces. >> >> Thus, I will remove the workspace-helper-related code. I will try to make in >> a minimal number of commits so it's easy to re-instate later. >> (to an experimental branch or to trunk) >> >> I won't touch the rootCategId (in DB) for now, because we are so close to >> the release. >> >> >> Anyone who disagrees: >> 1- Please take the time to make: >> a) Documentation with screenshots >> b) A profile, for people to quickly use/understand the feature >> >> My prediction: As doing so, you will come to the same conclusion. The >> feature is not ready. Not even as experimental. And it would just confuse >> end users (who are looking for a simpler way to do things). >> Not to mention creating permissions in the database which are never used. I >> think there are some interesting things, however, the >> cost/benefit/risk/overhead is not there. >> >> 2- Please help Ben & Aldo make this work for Tiki5. (which may be backported >> to 4.1) >> >> Best regards, >> >> M ;-) >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:27 AM, geoff@enmore <geoff@...> >> wrote: >>> Hi - I'm a bit confused. I've just set up a new prototype site, >>> synch'd with trunk, that I was going to start using for Workspaces. >>> But I can't find any trace of Workspaces in trunk? I can see the >>> Perspectives feature but nothing about Workspaces. >>> >>> I remember some discussion about whether Workspaces should be 4.0 but >>> I don't understand why I can't see it in trunk - am I doing something >> wrong? >>> dev.tiki... seems to be down at the moment so I can't check that out >>> >>> geoff >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -------- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal >>> Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration >>> and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application >>> coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tikiwiki-devel mailing list >>> Tikiwiki-devel@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rober >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 >> 19:39:00 >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 >> 19:39:00 >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day >> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on >> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with >> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july >> _______________________________________________ >> Tikiwiki-devel mailing list >> Tikiwiki-devel@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 19:39:00 >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tikiwiki-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Nelson Ko
::
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Having said this, I would like to point out that in my opinion it will
take months of experimentation to get a good handle on the multiple ways to expose workspaces functionality, through profiles/data channels as well as the Workspace Helper functionality encapsulated through wslib. I'll help Aldo with wslib as I think there is some value there in addition to the profiles/data channel approach in exposing workspace functionality, but this will be for 5.x (it is too rushed for 4.x now). Nevertheless, as I said, if you are a super-power user/plugin developer, it seems to me possible to get workspaces functionality through profiles/data channels, and I'll be trying this out over the next week. Will give some feedback when I get there... On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Nelson Ko <nelson@...> wrote: > All the underlying functionality for workspaces is encapsulated in the > Perspectives, Category Jailroot, Category/Group Transition features > that are in 4.x. > > The only thing that is not working is the Workspaces Configuration UI > and wslib (and I believe this is removed from 4.x). However, from what > I can see, all workspace functionality are workable through Profiles. > Through Data Channels it is also possible to create runtime widgets > (plugins) that do workspace-type operations. > > We intend to create profiles and possibly plugins that use data > channels to do workspace functionality in 4.0. I'm going to spend some > time creating some prototype of how this would work over the next week > to show how you can create "workspaces" even without wslib through > using profiles/data channels. > > Nelson > nkoth > > > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Gary Cunningham-Lee > <gary_c@...> wrote: >> Yeah, I was really surprised to hear this. I thought it was agreed >> before that workspaces was going to stay in trunk. The files have really >> been removed? >> >> -- Gary >> >> geoff@enmore wrote: >>> OK - I can understand why its not going forward into 4.0, but if its not in >>> trunk either then I don't understand how it will move forward? And it surely >>> can't make it into 4.1 since a .x 'Proposed rule' is that it has to be in >>> trunk first. >>> >>> I guess everyone (including me) is focused on 4.0 release at the moment but >>> I had assumed Workspaces still had 'life' ? >>> >>> geoff >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rober.lopez.sastre@... [mailto:rober.lopez.sastre@...] On >>> Behalf Of Roberto Javier López Sastre >>> Sent: 07 November 2009 11:01 >>> To: geoff@...; Tikiwiki developers >>> Subject: Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Workspaces? >>> >>> Hi Geoff, >>> Worspaces are out of trunk since Nov 3. I copy Marc's email below. >>> You are very welcome to contribute/test/whatever. >>> >>> Marc, maybe we can create a branch again, what do you think? >>> >>> In my opinion, what we need now is to get a simple and useful GUI to test >>> the wslib Aldo and Ben did, that is to work on the ws-helper >>> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper >>> Currently, the wslib is using perspectives so as to integrate the ws in >>> tiki. >>> >>> It would be good idea (again my opinion) to use stuff from Aulawiki and >>> Categories GUIs. >>> >>> The ws handler is in the ToDo list too. >>> >>> Thanks for your interest. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Marc Laporte <marc@...> >>> Date: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 1:33 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] Are workspaces ready for tiki 4.0? >>> To: Tikiwiki developers <tikiwiki-devel@...> >>> >>> >>> Hi! >>> >>> All the workspace-related things here are working: >>> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Roadmap >>> >>> However, for the workspace helper >>> (http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper), I just tried again: >>> >>> 1- Most of the issues reported below have not been addressed yet >>> 2- We are way past the feature freeze date. >>> 3- This was not supposed to be added to trunk before some issues were >>> addressed. >>> >>> So, I repeat that more time is needed to make this feature what it should >>> be. It is promising to make it easier to manage workspaces. >>> >>> Thus, I will remove the workspace-helper-related code. I will try to make in >>> a minimal number of commits so it's easy to re-instate later. >>> (to an experimental branch or to trunk) >>> >>> I won't touch the rootCategId (in DB) for now, because we are so close to >>> the release. >>> >>> >>> Anyone who disagrees: >>> 1- Please take the time to make: >>> a) Documentation with screenshots >>> b) A profile, for people to quickly use/understand the feature >>> >>> My prediction: As doing so, you will come to the same conclusion. The >>> feature is not ready. Not even as experimental. And it would just confuse >>> end users (who are looking for a simpler way to do things). >>> Not to mention creating permissions in the database which are never used. I >>> think there are some interesting things, however, the >>> cost/benefit/risk/overhead is not there. >>> >>> 2- Please help Ben & Aldo make this work for Tiki5. (which may be backported >>> to 4.1) >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> M ;-) >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:27 AM, geoff@enmore <geoff@...> >>> wrote: >>>> Hi - I'm a bit confused. I've just set up a new prototype site, >>>> synch'd with trunk, that I was going to start using for Workspaces. >>>> But I can't find any trace of Workspaces in trunk? I can see the >>>> Perspectives feature but nothing about Workspaces. >>>> >>>> I remember some discussion about whether Workspaces should be 4.0 but >>>> I don't understand why I can't see it in trunk - am I doing something >>> wrong? >>>> dev.tiki... seems to be down at the moment so I can't check that out >>>> >>>> geoff >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> -------- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal >>>> Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration >>>> and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application >>>> coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Tikiwiki-devel mailing list >>>> Tikiwiki-devel@... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rober >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 >>> 19:39:00 >>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 >>> 19:39:00 >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day >>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on >>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with >>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tikiwiki-devel mailing list >>> Tikiwiki-devel@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2485 - Release Date: 11/06/09 19:39:00 >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day >> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on >> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with >> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july >> _______________________________________________ >> Tikiwiki-devel mailing list >> Tikiwiki-devel@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Nelson Ko
::
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I think that to make things simple before the creation of 4.x branch,
Marc removed the wslib related code in trunk before the creation of 4.x, hence the disappearance of it from trunk. I'll have a discussion with Aldo later (after I get the rest of the functionality working through profiles/data channels first) to get this back into trunk (for 5.x). But for now, I really do want to prototype much workspace functionality can be done through profiles/data channels without wslib first. On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:27 AM, geoff@enmore <geoff@...> wrote: > Hi - I'm a bit confused. I've just set up a new prototype site, synch'd with > trunk, that I was going to start using for Workspaces. But I can't find any > trace of Workspaces in trunk? I can see the Perspectives feature but nothing > about Workspaces. > > I remember some discussion about whether Workspaces should be 4.0 but I > don't understand why I can't see it in trunk - am I doing something wrong? > dev.tiki... seems to be down at the moment so I can't check that out > > geoff > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus > on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tikiwiki-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Nelson Ko
::
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On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Roberto Javier López Sastre
<rober.lopez@...> wrote: > Hi Geoff, > Worspaces are out of trunk since Nov 3. I copy Marc's email below. > You are very welcome to contribute/test/whatever. > > Marc, maybe we can create a branch again, what do you think? I prefer that this (the wslib related parts removed from trunk) simply be put back into trunk (instead of a branch again) since we have branched 4.x already. Marc, any objection? > > In my opinion, what we need now is to get a simple and useful GUI to > test the wslib Aldo and Ben did, that is to work on the ws-helper > http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper > Currently, the wslib is using perspectives so as to integrate the ws in tiki. > > It would be good idea (again my opinion) to use stuff from Aulawiki > and Categories GUIs. I am not sure about this part for now -- as I have explained in my other emails, I am experimenting with the profiles/data channels approach first and then see how it this wslib be unified with that..., and then after that I can help Aldo with the wslib related parts. > > The ws handler is in the ToDo list too. > > Thanks for your interest. > Nelson, nkoth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Aldo-2
::
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I am not sure about this part for now -- as I have explained in my Great! Nelson, simply great! Anyway we can talk each other and I can help you with your experiments because with profiles everything should be better. ;) On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Nelson Ko <nelson@...> wrote:
-- Aldo Borrero González Estudiante de Ingeniería Técnica en Informática de Sistemas Universidad de Alcalá de Henares ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Roberto Javier López Sastre
::
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Hi, my comments below.
> I prefer that this (the wslib related parts removed from trunk) simply > be put back into trunk (instead of a branch again) since we have > branched 4.x already. > > Marc, any objection? Nelson, I'm not sure whether this is a good idea or not. If there is no appropriate UI to let the user play with WS it has no sense to have the wslib there in trunk or 4.x. Wouldn't it be confusing for tiki 4.x users? I agree with Marc in this point. However, to have wslib in trunk is going to help a lot with the development and testing. So, I actually don't know what to do. One thing is true: we did not meet the deadline of 4.x release, as we promised to Marc, because it was to much work for Aldo and Ben (you did a great job guys, don't misunderstand me ;-) ). > I am not sure about this part for now -- as I have explained in my > other emails, I am experimenting with the profiles/data channels > approach first and then see how it this wslib be unified with that..., > and then after that I can help Aldo with the wslib related parts. I would say that to get an approach to ws based on profiles/data channels implies to have a ws handler first. We can design some profiles to create/manage perspectives ( http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Perspective+Handler ), to add groups of users, define roles with perms, add object to a ws, define the perms for these objects, etc... But all these things must be done by hand one by one. With a WS handler we would have an easy and generic way for doing this, I think. I like to see that there are people interested in workspaces. ;-) Thanks to all. -- Rober ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Roberto Javier López Sastre
::
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> I talked with Ben yesterday, and he is out of the project. He don't want
> continue here in Tiki. So, I'm alone :( because in my case I will stay here > until I see this task done. Sorry to hear that, Aldo. Anyway, we should reactive this asap. So far we have done a lot of work but it is not connected. On one hand we have the great perspectives you all did in Barcelona. On the other hand we have the wslib Aldo and Ben did for the GSOC. We should define which is going to be the new direction we want to follow. Perspectives and categories solve almost all the problems related with perms. The wslib wants to offer an scalable way for managing ws resources within perspectives. I would say we already have the train in movement, next stations are: UI and Profiles for WS management. -- Rober ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by luci aka luciash d' being
::
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hi aldo,
On 11/07/2009 04:29 PM, Aldo wrote: > The problem itself about Workspaces is I can not continue here > developing and testing the code as I did the last year, because I have > to attend to my studies. So, as Marc said a couple of emails before, > Workspaces are not ready and we need, somehow, help to continue this task. i can help with the GUI at the beginning of December but first i need to understand how to make it work on my localhost > > I talked with Ben yesterday, and he is out of the project. He don't > want continue here in Tiki. So, I'm alone :( because in my case I will > stay here until I see this task done. > sad to hear that :( thanks that you don't give up luci ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by luci aka luciash d' being
::
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hi nelson,
On 11/07/2009 05:30 PM, Nelson Ko wrote: > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Roberto Javier López Sastre > <rober.lopez@...> wrote: > >> Hi Geoff, >> Worspaces are out of trunk since Nov 3. I copy Marc's email below. >> You are very welcome to contribute/test/whatever. >> >> Marc, maybe we can create a branch again, what do you think? >> > > I prefer that this (the wslib related parts removed from trunk) simply > be put back into trunk (instead of a branch again) since we have > branched 4.x already. > > Marc, any objection? > > +1 from me >> In my opinion, what we need now is to get a simple and useful GUI to >> test the wslib Aldo and Ben did, that is to work on the ws-helper >> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper >> Currently, the wslib is using perspectives so as to integrate the ws in tiki. >> >> It would be good idea (again my opinion) to use stuff from Aulawiki >> and Categories GUIs. >> > > I am not sure about this part for now -- as I have explained in my > other emails, I am experimenting with the profiles/data channels > approach first and then see how it this wslib be unified with that..., > and then after that I can help Aldo with the wslib related parts. > > i am not sure about re-using the aulawiki stuff too... last time i saw it it was very weird GUI to me hard to understand and ugly looking... mostly some in-table stuff in the center of a Tiki... maybe the backend (if any) and re-design it from scratch to match the rest of Tiki (TikiTabs, etc.) ? luci ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Nelson Ko
::
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On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Roberto Javier López Sastre
<rober.lopez@...> wrote: > Hi, my comments below. > >> I prefer that this (the wslib related parts removed from trunk) simply >> be put back into trunk (instead of a branch again) since we have >> branched 4.x already. >> >> Marc, any objection? > > Nelson, I'm not sure whether this is a good idea or not. If there is > no appropriate UI to let the user play with WS it has no sense to have > the wslib there in trunk or 4.x. Wouldn't it be confusing for tiki 4.x > users Totallly. But trunk not equals 4.x now trunk = 5.x and 4.x is 4.x since we branched earlier this week < I agree with Marc in this point. However, to have wslib in > trunk is going to help a lot with the development and testing. > So, I actually don't know what to do. One thing is true: we did not > meet the deadline of 4.x release, as we promised to Marc, because it > was to much work for Aldo and Ben (you did a great job guys, don't > misunderstand me ;-) ). > >> I am not sure about this part for now -- as I have explained in my >> other emails, I am experimenting with the profiles/data channels >> approach first and then see how it this wslib be unified with that..., >> and then after that I can help Aldo with the wslib related parts. > > I would say that to get an approach to ws based on profiles/data > channels implies to have a ws handler first. We can design some > profiles to create/manage perspectives ( > http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Perspective+Handler ), to add groups of > users, define roles with perms, add object to a ws, define the perms > for these objects, etc... But all these things must be done by hand > one by one. With a WS handler we would have an easy and generic way > for doing this, I think. > > I like to see that there are people interested in workspaces. ;-) Thanks to all. > > > -- > Rober > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tikiwiki-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Roberto Javier López Sastre
::
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> Totallly. But trunk not equals 4.x now
> trunk = 5.x and 4.x is 4.x since we branched earlier this week Then +100 for having ws back in trunk ;-) -- Rober ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Xavier de Pedro Puente-2
::
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That's good news, Nelson! thank you so much to push forward some basic
UI for workspaces administration, such as the one started by Aldo and Ben. Cheers Xavi En/na Nelson Ko ha escrit: > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Roberto Javier López Sastre > <rober.lopez@...> wrote: > >> Hi Geoff, >> Worspaces are out of trunk since Nov 3. I copy Marc's email below. >> You are very welcome to contribute/test/whatever. >> >> Marc, maybe we can create a branch again, what do you think? >> > > I prefer that this (the wslib related parts removed from trunk) simply > be put back into trunk (instead of a branch again) since we have > branched 4.x already. > > Marc, any objection? > > >> In my opinion, what we need now is to get a simple and useful GUI to >> test the wslib Aldo and Ben did, that is to work on the ws-helper >> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper >> Currently, the wslib is using perspectives so as to integrate the ws in tiki. >> >> It would be good idea (again my opinion) to use stuff from Aulawiki >> and Categories GUIs. >> > > I am not sure about this part for now -- as I have explained in my > other emails, I am experimenting with the profiles/data channels > approach first and then see how it this wslib be unified with that..., > and then after that I can help Aldo with the wslib related parts. > > >> The ws handler is in the ToDo list too. >> >> Thanks for your interest. >> >> > > Nelson, nkoth > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tikiwiki-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Marc Laporte-3
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Hi!
For now, I would like everyone to focus on 4.0 Once 4.0 is released, let's revisit this topic and any re-introduction of the removed code. Since there is still a lot of confusion about workspaces, I will attempt to explain this another way (answering various things on the whole thread) About workspaces --------------------------- The same way there is no checkbox for project management, for community site, Intranet, etc, there is __no checkbox__ for workspaces. Just to be sure this sinks in. I will repeat: There is __no checkbox__ for workspaces. There is __no checkbox__ for workspaces. There is __no checkbox__ for workspaces. Workspaces are __not__ a feature like forums, blogs and trackers. Thus, there is __no checkbox__ for workspaces. Workspaces, like project management, are the result of combining various things in Tiki. Mainly category permissions, but also group transitions, perspectives, category jail, etc. http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Roadmap Projects are very different from one to another, so different solutions are needed. Sometimes, it's wiki-based project management, sometimes, it's classic what-you-learn-in-school-Gantt-chart-project-management, with PERT, etc. There is even a group that intends to make a profile for this type of PM: http://projectmanagementwiki.org/WBS+for+building+an+airplane+TikiWiki+profile Here are 10 examples of the workspaces use cases: http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Workspaces There is no way a workspaces "feature" could cover them all. If we had a workspace or project management "feature", we would have to streamline to one of the main uses, and all the others would have to bend their needs to fit the tool. This would limit people using it and ultimately put pressure on people to add other (similar but different) features, and we would end with feature duplication. Instead, Louis-Philippe designed a very future-proof and flexible solution (toolbox approach). We will be able to do a great job with all the use cases. Since it is a toolbox approach, there are three ways we expect people to build workspaces: 1- Manually, by clicking around, adding permissions to categories, adding items to that category. This mostly works, but there are some features only manageable via profiles. 2- Via profiles (like Learning_Center) This works but we only have demo/proof of concept profiles so far. So we need people to create some. If some people come up with clear descriptions of common use cases, I will help make the profiles. 3- Profiles Helper A GUI to help you build profiles, worked on by Ben & Aldo. This third aspect is what was being work on in a branch. Then, was merged to trunk, and now removed. About file removal -------------------------- File removal only concerns #3. It was not ready and the concerns expressed in Barcelona were globally not addressed. About the future of workspace helper ---------------------------------------------------- I think this is a useful and interesting idea. However, this is __much__ more complex than many people think. Which explains why people get to a certain point and then, they are stuck. Features in Tiki are very different from one to the next. Sometimes, you categorize a file gallery, other times a file. However, for wiki pages, there is not this "container" logic. The same way workspaces can be seen as supercharged categories, I think the workspace helper can be seen as a supercharged category manager. From the category manager, we should be able to add any type of object. It is not yet possible for example: Trackers & categories: add a tracker item to a category via tiki-admin_categories.php http://dev.tikiwiki.org/wish1107 This is something that we need. About working in trunk vs experimental branch ------------------------------------------------------------------- As we have seen over the summer, when working in trunk, there is an expectation that it's supposed to work at a certain level. And if the data structure changes, an appropriate sql patch is introduced. So the concept (or at least the data structure) should be fairly clear before going to trunk. Or otherwise time needs to be taken to maintain the migration paths. On the other hand, working in a experimental branch doesn't get as many eyeballs. That is the trade-off. To the question: any objection? I'll remind everyone that: 1- Conditions to add to trunk were not met. They should be met __before__ adding. 2- I was stuck cleaning up. I did it in a single commit to make it easy to restore later on. 3- It's still not all cleaned up. We have data "corruption" in the category table. (rootCategId) I object to restoring to trunk without at least a basic plan. I certainly object to creating all the permissions which were not used anywhere. Just putting back the code as is: I don't see how it will evolve more than it did in the last two month. The summer is over and students are back in school. Here is what is needed: 1- For someone to clean up everything related to $rootCategId changes (installer/schema/20090921_workspaces_tiki.sql ) before Tiki4.0 2- We need a basic plan: Tasks, names and and global timeline And I ask for two commitments: A- The people are responsible for keeping up to date the data migration scripts, so people that run sites in trunk do not have corrupt databases. B- These people are also responsible for cleaning up any unfinished business in time for 5.0 I don't want to be stuck with this again :-) But for now, I ask a moratorium on this discussion. I ask that everyone focuses on 4.x Let's revisit after 4.0 Nelson, Aldo, luci, Roberto, Xavi, Gary, Geoff: who takes the responsibility to clean up $rootCategId changes (installer/schema/20090921_workspaces_tiki.sql ) before Tiki4.0 ? This means surgically removing from categlib. Thanks! M ;-) On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Xavier de Pedro <xavier.depedro@...> wrote: > That's good news, Nelson! thank you so much to push forward some basic > UI for workspaces administration, such as the one started by Aldo and Ben. > > Cheers > > Xavi > > En/na Nelson Ko ha escrit: >> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Roberto Javier López Sastre >> <rober.lopez@...> wrote: >> >>> Hi Geoff, >>> Worspaces are out of trunk since Nov 3. I copy Marc's email below. >>> You are very welcome to contribute/test/whatever. >>> >>> Marc, maybe we can create a branch again, what do you think? >>> >> >> I prefer that this (the wslib related parts removed from trunk) simply >> be put back into trunk (instead of a branch again) since we have >> branched 4.x already. >> >> Marc, any objection? >> >> >>> In my opinion, what we need now is to get a simple and useful GUI to >>> test the wslib Aldo and Ben did, that is to work on the ws-helper >>> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper >>> Currently, the wslib is using perspectives so as to integrate the ws in tiki. >>> >>> It would be good idea (again my opinion) to use stuff from Aulawiki >>> and Categories GUIs. >>> >> >> I am not sure about this part for now -- as I have explained in my >> other emails, I am experimenting with the profiles/data channels >> approach first and then see how it this wslib be unified with that..., >> and then after that I can help Aldo with the wslib related parts. >> >> >>> The ws handler is in the ToDo list too. >>> >>> Thanks for your interest. >>> >>> >> >> Nelson, nkoth >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day >> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on >> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with >> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july >> _______________________________________________ >> Tikiwiki-devel mailing list >> Tikiwiki-devel@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tikiwiki-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > -- Marc Laporte http://MarcLaporte.com http://TikiWiki.org/MarcLaporte http://AvanTech.net http://OurWiki.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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Re: Workspaces?
by Nelson Ko
::
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ok, revisit after 4.0.
Nelson On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Marc Laporte <marc@...> wrote: > Hi! > > For now, I would like everyone to focus on 4.0 Once 4.0 is released, > let's revisit this topic and any re-introduction of the removed code. > > Since there is still a lot of confusion about workspaces, I will > attempt to explain this another way (answering various things on the > whole thread) > > About workspaces > --------------------------- > The same way there is no checkbox for project management, for > community site, Intranet, etc, there is __no checkbox__ for > workspaces. > > Just to be sure this sinks in. I will repeat: > > There is __no checkbox__ for workspaces. > There is __no checkbox__ for workspaces. > There is __no checkbox__ for workspaces. > > > Workspaces are __not__ a feature like forums, blogs and trackers. > Thus, there is __no checkbox__ for workspaces. > > Workspaces, like project management, are the result of combining > various things in Tiki. Mainly category permissions, but also group > transitions, perspectives, category jail, etc. > http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Roadmap > > Projects are very different from one to another, so different > solutions are needed. Sometimes, it's wiki-based project management, > sometimes, it's classic > what-you-learn-in-school-Gantt-chart-project-management, with PERT, > etc. > > There is even a group that intends to make a profile for this type of PM: > http://projectmanagementwiki.org/WBS+for+building+an+airplane+TikiWiki+profile > > Here are 10 examples of the workspaces use cases: > http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Workspaces > > There is no way a workspaces "feature" could cover them all. If we had > a workspace or project management "feature", we would have to > streamline to one of the main uses, and all the others would have to > bend their needs to fit the tool. This would limit people using it and > ultimately put pressure on people to add other (similar but different) > features, and we would end with feature duplication. Instead, > Louis-Philippe designed a very future-proof and flexible solution > (toolbox approach). We will be able to do a great job with all the use > cases. > > Since it is a toolbox approach, there are three ways we expect people > to build workspaces: > > 1- Manually, by clicking around, adding permissions to categories, > adding items to that category. > This mostly works, but there are some features only manageable via profiles. > > 2- Via profiles (like Learning_Center) > This works but we only have demo/proof of concept profiles so far. So > we need people to create some. If some people come up with clear > descriptions of common use cases, I will help make the profiles. > > 3- Profiles Helper > A GUI to help you build profiles, worked on by Ben & Aldo. > > This third aspect is what was being work on in a branch. Then, was > merged to trunk, and now removed. > > > About file removal > -------------------------- > File removal only concerns #3. It was not ready and the concerns > expressed in Barcelona were globally not addressed. > > About the future of workspace helper > ---------------------------------------------------- > I think this is a useful and interesting idea. However, this is > __much__ more complex than many people think. Which explains why > people get to a certain point and then, they are stuck. Features in > Tiki are very different from one to the next. Sometimes, you > categorize a file gallery, other times a file. However, for wiki > pages, there is not this "container" logic. > > The same way workspaces can be seen as supercharged categories, I > think the workspace helper can be seen as a supercharged category > manager. From the category manager, we should be able to add any type > of object. It is not yet possible for example: > > Trackers & categories: add a tracker item to a category via > tiki-admin_categories.php > http://dev.tikiwiki.org/wish1107 > This is something that we need. > > > About working in trunk vs experimental branch > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > As we have seen over the summer, when working in trunk, there is an > expectation that it's supposed to work at a certain level. And if the > data structure changes, an appropriate sql patch is introduced. So the > concept (or at least the data structure) should be fairly clear before > going to trunk. Or otherwise time needs to be taken to maintain the > migration paths. On the other hand, working in a experimental branch > doesn't get as many eyeballs. That is the trade-off. > > > To the question: any objection? > > I'll remind everyone that: > 1- Conditions to add to trunk were not met. They should be met > __before__ adding. > 2- I was stuck cleaning up. I did it in a single commit to make it > easy to restore later on. > 3- It's still not all cleaned up. We have data "corruption" in the > category table. (rootCategId) > > I object to restoring to trunk without at least a basic plan. I > certainly object to creating all the permissions which were not used > anywhere. Just putting back the code as is: I don't see how it will > evolve more than it did in the last two month. The summer is over and > students are back in school. > > Here is what is needed: > 1- For someone to clean up everything related to $rootCategId changes > (installer/schema/20090921_workspaces_tiki.sql ) before Tiki4.0 > 2- We need a basic plan: Tasks, names and and global timeline > > And I ask for two commitments: > A- The people are responsible for keeping up to date the data > migration scripts, so people that run sites in trunk do not have > corrupt databases. > B- These people are also responsible for cleaning up any unfinished > business in time for 5.0 I don't want to be stuck with this again :-) > > But for now, I ask a moratorium on this discussion. I ask that > everyone focuses on 4.x Let's revisit after 4.0 > > Nelson, Aldo, luci, Roberto, Xavi, Gary, Geoff: who takes the > responsibility to clean up $rootCategId changes > (installer/schema/20090921_workspaces_tiki.sql ) before Tiki4.0 ? This > means surgically removing from categlib. > > Thanks! > > M ;-) > > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Xavier de Pedro <xavier.depedro@...> wrote: >> That's good news, Nelson! thank you so much to push forward some basic >> UI for workspaces administration, such as the one started by Aldo and Ben. >> >> Cheers >> >> Xavi >> >> En/na Nelson Ko ha escrit: >>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Roberto Javier López Sastre >>> <rober.lopez@...> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Geoff, >>>> Worspaces are out of trunk since Nov 3. I copy Marc's email below. >>>> You are very welcome to contribute/test/whatever. >>>> >>>> Marc, maybe we can create a branch again, what do you think? >>>> >>> >>> I prefer that this (the wslib related parts removed from trunk) simply >>> be put back into trunk (instead of a branch again) since we have >>> branched 4.x already. >>> >>> Marc, any objection? >>> >>> >>>> In my opinion, what we need now is to get a simple and useful GUI to >>>> test the wslib Aldo and Ben did, that is to work on the ws-helper >>>> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Helper >>>> Currently, the wslib is using perspectives so as to integrate the ws in tiki. >>>> >>>> It would be good idea (again my opinion) to use stuff from Aulawiki >>>> and Categories GUIs. >>>> >>> >>> I am not sure about this part for now -- as I have explained in my >>> other emails, I am experimenting with the profiles/data channels >>> approach first and then see how it this wslib be unified with that..., >>> and then after that I can help Aldo with the wslib related parts. >>> >>> >>>> The ws handler is in the ToDo list too. >>>> >>>> Thanks for your interest. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Nelson, nkoth >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day >>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on >>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with >>> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tikiwiki-devel mailing list >>> Tikiwiki-devel@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day >> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on >> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with >> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july >> _______________________________________________ >> Tikiwiki-devel mailing list >> Tikiwiki-devel@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel >> > > > > -- > Marc Laporte > > http://MarcLaporte.com > http://TikiWiki.org/MarcLaporte > http://AvanTech.net > http://OurWiki.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tikiwiki-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july _______________________________________________ Tikiwiki-devel mailing list Tikiwiki-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |
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