Wrong chapter positions

[Eric Martel-2]

Hi,

Whenever I set chapter time positions in my .xml file, the resulting DVD
won't jump at the right times: they are always many seconds too soon
(for example, a chapter defined at 00:05:00 will appear at 00:04:43 min
when DVD is played, and this delay will increase for each new chapter; a
chapter set at 10:00:00 will appear at 00:09:32 and so on). This
behaviour is the same whether I play the DVD folder with any software
(such as VLC and Xine) or I burn the DVD and play it in a physical DVD
player.

The movie files I use are DVD mpeg2 files produced with Kino from raw
.dv files.

There is no error nor warning from the dvdauthor output; here is a
sample output for reference (see also the attached corresponding
dvdauthor.xml file generated by Qdvdauthor):

     $ dvdauthor -x /500G/tmp/EDM_LOST_FILES/dvdauthor.xml
     DVDAuthor::dvdauthor, version 0.6.14.
     Build options: gnugetopt magick iconv freetype
     Send bugs to <dvdauthor-users@...>

     INFO: Locale=fr_CA.UTF-8
     INFO: Converting filenames to UTF-8
     INFO: dvdauthor creating VTS
     STAT: Picking VTS 01
     STAT: Processing /500G/DVD/EDM_LOST_FILES/party_noel.mpeg...
     STAT: VOBU 7744 at 3817MB, 3 PGCS
     INFO: Video pts = 0.133 .. 4651.246
     INFO: Audio[8] pts = 0.133 .. 4651.237

     STAT: Processing /500G/DVD/EDM_LOST_FILES/candidatures_banquier.mpeg...
     STAT: VOBU 10299 at 4891MB, 3 PGCS
     INFO: Video pts = 0.133 .. 1529.494
     INFO: Audio[8] pts = 0.133 .. 1529.485

     STAT: Processing /500G/DVD/EDM_LOST_FILES/adieux_el.mpeg...
     STAT: VOBU 11233 at 5264MB, 3 PGCS
     INFO: Video pts = 0.133 .. 554.086
     INFO: Audio[8] pts = 0.133 .. 554.077
     STAT: VOBU 11234 at 5265MB, 3 PGCS
     INFO: Generating VTS with the following video attributes:
     INFO: MPEG version: mpeg2
     INFO: TV standard: ntsc
     INFO: Aspect ratio: 4:3
     INFO: Resolution: 720x480
     INFO: Audio ch 0 format: mp2/2ch, 48khz 20bps, 'en'

     STAT: fixed 11234 VOBUS
     INFO: dvdauthor creating table of contents
     INFO: Scanning /500G/DVD/EDM_LOST_FILES//VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_0.IFO
     INFO: Creating menu for TOC

     STAT: Processing /500G/tmp/EDM_LOST_FILES/Main Menu VMGM_menu.mpg...

     INFO: Video pts = 0.133 .. 1.134
     INFO: Audio[0] pts = 0.133 .. 1.093
     INFO: Audio[32] pts = 0.133 .. 0.133
     STAT: VOBU 2 at 0MB, 1 PGCS
     INFO: Generating VMGM with the following video attributes:
     INFO: MPEG version: mpeg2
     INFO: TV standard: ntsc
     INFO: Aspect ratio: 4:3
     INFO: Resolution: 720x480
     INFO: Audio ch 0 format: ac3/2ch, 48khz drc

     STAT: fixed 2 VOBUS

--
Eric Martel
Québec (Québec)
Canada

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<dvdauthor dest="/500G/DVD/EDM_LOST_FILES/" >
 <vmgm>
  <menus>
   <video format="ntsc" aspect="4:3" resolution="720x480" />
   <pgc entry="title" >
    <pre> { if ( g4 gt 0 ) button=g4;
           if ( g2 gt 0 )  {
                if ( g2 eq 1 ) jump titleset 1 menu entry root;
                jump title 1; }
        } </pre>
    <vob file="/500G/tmp/EDM_LOST_FILES/Main Menu VMGM_menu.mpg" pause="inf" />
    <button name="01_Button_1" > { g4=1024;  g3=1; jump titleset 1 menu entry root; } </button>
    <button name="02_Button_2" > { g4=2048;  g3=2; jump titleset 1 menu entry root; } </button>
    <button name="03_Button_3" > { g4=3072;  g3=3; jump titleset 1 menu entry root; } </button>
    <post> { g4=button; g2=0; jump vmgm menu 1; } </post>
   </pgc>
  </menus>
 </vmgm>
 <titleset>
  <menus>
   <pgc entry="root" >
    <pre> {   if ( g3 gt 0 )  {
                if ( g3 eq 1 ) { g3=0; jump title 1  chapter 1; }
                if ( g3 eq 2 ) { g3=0; jump title 2  chapter 1; }
                if ( g3 eq 3 ) { g3=0; jump title 3  chapter 1; }
                jump vmgm menu entry title;
                }
        } </pre>
    <post> { g2 = 0; jump vmgm menu entry title; } </post>
   </pgc>
  </menus>
  <titles>
   <video format="ntsc" aspect="4:3" resolution="720x480" />
   <audio lang="en" />
   <pgc>
    <vob file="/500G/DVD/EDM_LOST_FILES/party_noel.mpeg" pause="0" chapters="00:00:00.000,00:05:00.000,00:10:00.000,00:15:00.000,00:20:00.000,00:25:00.000,00:30:00.000,00:35:00.000,00:40:00.000,00:45:00.000,00:50:00.000" />
    <post> call vmgm menu 1;</post>
   </pgc>
   <pgc>
    <vob file="/500G/DVD/EDM_LOST_FILES/candidatures_banquier.mpeg" pause="0" chapters="00:00:00.000,00:01:48.946,00:03:36.999,00:03:58.430,00:09:21.697,00:14:01.206" />
    <post> call vmgm menu 1;</post>
   </pgc>
   <pgc>
    <vob file="/500G/DVD/EDM_LOST_FILES/adieux_el.mpeg" pause="0" chapters="00:00:00.000,00:00:19.158,00:00:30.282,00:00:44.187,00:00:45.084,00:00:48.066,00:00:53.882,00:00:58.158,00:01:00.000,00:01:22.194,00:01:58.400,00:02:21.423,00:02:24.056,00:02:34.500,00:04:07.200" />
    <post> call vmgm menu 1;</post>
   </pgc>
  </titles>
 </titleset>
</dvdauthor>



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[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI-4]

On Ter, 21 Jul 2009, Eric Martel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Whenever I set chapter time positions in my .xml file, the resulting DVD
> won't jump at the right times: they are always many seconds too soon
> (for example, a chapter defined at 00:05:00 will appear at 00:04:43 min
> when DVD is played, and this delay will increase for each new chapter; a
> chapter set at 10:00:00 will appear at 00:09:32 and so on). This
> behaviour is the same whether I play the DVD folder with any software
> (such as VLC and Xine) or I burn the DVD and play it in a physical DVD
> player.

That's because the jumps are always at GOP boundaries (I frames, those  
that represent the whole image of the frame, instead of only the  
differences from the previous ones). So you'll only get to jump to the  
exact place if it happens to be an I frame there.

That said, it seems your I frames are too much spaced (they should be  
present every few seconds). Check your encoding settings.


--
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@...


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[Giacomo Comes]

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 04:48:46PM -0300, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

> On Ter, 21 Jul 2009, Eric Martel wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Whenever I set chapter time positions in my .xml file, the resulting DVD
> > won't jump at the right times: they are always many seconds too soon
> > (for example, a chapter defined at 00:05:00 will appear at 00:04:43 min
> > when DVD is played, and this delay will increase for each new chapter; a
> > chapter set at 10:00:00 will appear at 00:09:32 and so on). This
> > behaviour is the same whether I play the DVD folder with any software
> > (such as VLC and Xine) or I burn the DVD and play it in a physical DVD
> > player.
>
> That's because the jumps are always at GOP boundaries (I frames, those  
> that represent the whole image of the frame, instead of only the  
> differences from the previous ones). So you'll only get to jump to the  
> exact place if it happens to be an I frame there.
>
> That said, it seems your I frames are too much spaced (they should be  
> present every few seconds). Check your encoding settings.

The fact that the delay increases let me think more of a bad ntsc mpeg
created by Kino. Try to use a different program or use Kino with
different options.

Giacomo

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[Eric Martel-2]

Le 2009-07-21 15:48, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI a écrit :
> That's because the jumps are always at GOP boundaries (I frames, those  
> that represent the whole image of the frame, instead of only the  
> differences from the previous ones). So you'll only get to jump to the  
> exact place if it happens to be an I frame there.
>
> That said, it seems your I frames are too much spaced (they should be  
> present every few seconds). Check your encoding settings.
>  

Thanks for the answer. However, I don't understand from what you say how
the drifts would increase over time. From the mpeg2enc manpage, I read
that NTSC (that I use) has a max GOP size of 18 frames by default;
wouldn't that mean a max drift of 18f / 29.97f/s = 0.6s for any given
chapter? Anyway, for testing, I forced GOPs to be fixed at 6 frames: I
noticed an expected increase in the resulting movie file size, but the
drifts didn't change *at all* (one would have expected from what you
said that they would at least become smaller). I don't rule out a movie
format problem, but I'm not at all convinced that GOP size is the
problem here.

In order to make further investigation, could someone provide me with
sample commands known to work for converting a .dv file to a
DVD-compliant file for which dvdauthor has no problems setting chapters?
I'll report back if they work on my side too. Thanks!

--
Eric Martel
Québec (Québec)
Canada




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[Eric Martel-2]

Le 2009-07-22 12:24, Giacomo Comes a écrit :
> The fact that the delay increases let me think more of a bad ntsc mpeg
> created by Kino. Try to use a different program or use Kino with
> different options.
>
> Giacomo
>  

Indeed, that's more likely I think. As I asked in my previous post,
could anyone provide me with commands/parameters known to produce
DVD-compliant files from .dv files that will work correctly with
dvdauthor for setting chapters? I'll also check with Google for some
hints, even though some search returned nothing as to how prevent such
drifts.

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[Eric Martel-2]

But nevertheless and whatever how bad my file could possibly be, mybe
it's a very naive question, but I can't help wondering how come 100% of
the DVD players I've tried (either software or hardware) always give me
the same frame at the same time-position, while obviously dvdauthor
won't do the same... Shouldn't dvdauthor be consistent with players in
the way it determines the time-position of frames?


Le 2009-07-23 07:44, Eric Martel a écrit :

> Le 2009-07-22 12:24, Giacomo Comes a écrit :
>  
>> The fact that the delay increases let me think more of a bad ntsc mpeg
>> created by Kino. Try to use a different program or use Kino with
>> different options.
>>
>> Giacomo
>>  
>>    
>
> Indeed, that's more likely I think. As I asked in my previous post,
> could anyone provide me with commands/parameters known to produce
> DVD-compliant files from .dv files that will work correctly with
> dvdauthor for setting chapters? I'll also check with Google for some
> hints, even though some search returned nothing as to how prevent such
> drifts.
>
>  

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[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI-4]

On Qui, 23 Jul 2009, Eric Martel wrote:
> But nevertheless and whatever how bad my file could possibly be, mybe
> it's a very naive question, but I can't help wondering how come 100% of
> the DVD players I've tried (either software or hardware) always give me
> the same frame at the same time-position, while obviously dvdauthor
> won't do the same... Shouldn't dvdauthor be consistent with players in
> the way it determines the time-position of frames?

I'm not really sure what you mean. dvdauthor only gets the video and  
encapsulates it in the DVD structure. It also has nothing to do with  
playing DVDs. If you use the exact same encoded video with another dvd  
authorer program, does the chapter boundary appear in the spot you  
want, instead of several seconds off?



--
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@...


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[Eric Martel-2]

Le 2009-07-23 11:47, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI a écrit :
> I'm not really sure what you mean. dvdauthor only gets the video and  
> encapsulates it in the DVD structure. It also has nothing to do with  
> playing DVDs. If you use the exact same encoded video with another dvd  
> authorer program, does the chapter boundary appear in the spot you  
> want, instead of several seconds off?
>  

As I said, that may be a naive question... I don't know how the
chapter-jumping system works on a DVD, i.e. what dvdauthor actually does
with the time-positions I give it in the .xml file. But what I mean is
that if I ask any DVD player to jump directly at a certain time-position
in the movie (say, at 10mins from the beginning), every one of them will
jump to the same frame (so they all "know" in the same way what frame is
at which time-position). How come, then, when I ask dvdauthor to put a
chapter at 10mins, the "marked frame" (maybe there isn't even such a
thing, I don't know) will be many seconds earlier than what DVD players
show me?

As for what another dvd authorer program would do, I will surely give it
a try as soon as I can. Stay tuned! :)

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[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI-4]

On Qui, 23 Jul 2009, Eric Martel wrote:
> As I said, that may be a naive question... I don't know how the
> chapter-jumping system works on a DVD, i.e. what dvdauthor actually does
> with the time-positions I give it in the .xml file.

I don't know the technical details, but some mark is created pointing  
the the chapter boundaries.

However, since apparently there is no GOP boundary at the time you  
request, dvdauthor adjusts the position you asked so that the mark  
points to the nearest (or perhaps previous or following GOP boundary).

> But what I mean is
> that if I ask any DVD player to jump directly at a certain time-position
> in the movie (say, at 10mins from the beginning), every one of them will
> jump to the same frame (so they all "know" in the same way what frame is
> at which time-position).

That's certainly true.

> How come, then, when I ask dvdauthor to put a
> chapter at 10mins, the "marked frame" (maybe there isn't even such a
> thing, I don't know) will be many seconds earlier than what DVD players
> show me?

Because the frame at 10 minutes is not an I-frame (those that start  
GOPs), so the position is adjusted to match a GOP boundary.



--
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@...


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[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI-4]

Eric Martel wrote:
> In order to make further investigation, could someone provide me with
> sample commands known to work for converting a .dv file to a
> DVD-compliant file for which dvdauthor has no problems setting chapters?
> I'll report back if they work on my side too. Thanks!
>  

I like to use ffmpeg for conversion. I generally convert avi divx/xvid
files, but if ffmpeg can read DV it should work the same. This command
line works:

ffmpeg -i input.avi -target ntsc-dvd -b 4250k -s 720x480 -aspect 16:9
-mbd 2 -sws_flags lanczos -trellis 2 -ab 192k -ar 48000 -acodec ac3
output.mpg


--
All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
eduardo@...


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