X'mas Greetings

[Sumanta-Sandhya Niyogi]

Dear Friends and Fellow-members,
       Merry Christmas.  On this solemn occasion we pray,"May the Almighty God and one of his noblest sons, Lord Jesus Christ shower Their choicest blessings on you all." Jesus Christ is such a universally loved and revered soul that even in our Hindu-majority country there are millionms and millions of people who virtually worship him. It gives us a wonderful feeling to send our greetings to you on such a grand occasion. May his sermons, the words of wisdom and benevolence, guide, protect and inspire us all.  As Brahmos,we feel proud of the way Raja Rammohun in his classic work, The Precepts of Jesus, and Swami Vivekananda (his broadness and liberality originated from his Brahmo background) in his Thus Spake the Christ, paid their homage to Jesus Christ.  Vivekananda wrote, "If I, as an Oriental, am to worship Jesus of Nazareth, there is only one way left to me, that is to worship Him as God and nothing else." This reflects our universal and
 cosmopolitan tradition. Interestingly enough, it is the Brahmo Samaj which was the first Indian non-Christian religious community to start the annual celebration of the Chritmas and to conduct upasana on the occasion. Later the Ramakrishna Mission follow3ed the example.
           On such a holy occasion we generally make it a point to read the Holy Bible, at least some portions, if not the whole, of it. This time one message of Jesus that deeply touched us is that one should not evaluate what he/she has got or could not get from God, but should find joy and happiness from His divine presence within himself/herself all the time and the way he protected us at different times. That will bring greatest satisfaction to everyone and this will be as good as the key to the Kingdom of God. What a profound message and so similar to the thoughts of our ancient sages and Brahmo pioneers.    
Regards,
Yours truly,
Sumanta and Sandhya Niyogi


     

[Rahul Dev Sharma]

Dear Fellow members

Even a cursory reading of the Bible shows the vast chasm between
Brahmoism and Christianity which the Christians in our midst should be
aware of.

For example the book of Genesis (1:26, 1;27 and 2:7) we are told by
Christians that "God created Man in his own image from the dust of the
earth". Rammohan had challenged this and we say that to the contrary
"it was Man who creates (idols of) God from the dust of the earth.".
Rammohan foresaw the great importance for Christians that Man is in
God's image for does not Christ have the same image as his Father GOD
(Corinthians).

Another example would be of the "Fatherhood of God". This is a
decidedly Christian concept (inserted by Keshab Sen) antithetical to
Brahmoism where the "Godhood of father" is upheld. Christianity asks
us to accept that Christ is God's son and that salvation lies through
God's Son and his chosen representatives on earth (namely Popery).
Keshab went on to introduce more alien Christian concepts "Motherhood
of God", "Kingdom of God" "Loyalty to Sovereign" etc which True
Brahmos reject out of hand.

Nay, Brahmoism is to be regarded as the highest form of a much debased
Hinduism, a Hinduism which has now ceased to be Brahmoism.

Rahul

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Sumanta-Sandhya Niyogi
<sumantaniyogi@...> wrote:

> Dear Friends and Fellow-members,
>        Merry Christmas.  On this solemn occasion we pray,"May the Almighty
> God and one of his noblest sons, Lord Jesus Christ shower Their choicest
> blessings on you all." Jesus Christ is such a universally loved and revered
> soul that even in our Hindu-majority country there are millionms and
> millions of people who virtually worship him. It gives us a wonderful
> feeling to send our greetings to you on such a grand occasion. May his
> sermons, the words of wisdom and benevolence, guide, protect and inspire us
> all.  As Brahmos,we feel proud of the way Raja Rammohun in his classic work,
> The Precepts of Jesus, and Swami Vivekananda (his broadness and liberality
> originated from his Brahmo background) in his Thus Spake the Christ, paid
> their homage to Jesus Christ.  Vivekananda wrote, "If I, as an Oriental, am
> to worship Jesus of Nazareth, there is only one way left to me, that is to
> worship Him as God and nothing else." This reflects our universal and
> cosmopolitan tradition. Interestingly enough, it is the Brahmo Samaj which
> was the first Indian non-Christian religious community to start the annual
> celebration of the Chritmas and to conduct upasana on the occasion. Later
> the Ramakrishna Mission follow3ed the example.
>            On such a holy occasion we generally make it a point to read the
> Holy Bible, at least some portions, if not the whole, of it. This time one
> message of Jesus that deeply touched us is that one should not evaluate what
> he/she has got or could not get from God, but should find joy and happiness
> from His divine presence within himself/herself all the time and the way he
> protected us at different times. That will bring greatest satisfaction to
> everyone and this will be as good as the key to the Kingdom of God. What a
> profound message and so similar to the thoughts of our ancient sages and
> Brahmo pioneers.
> Regards,
> Yours truly,
> Sumanta and Sandhya Niyogi
>

[Ray, Debanjan IN BLR SISL]

Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma,

 

What is the definition of True Brahmo?

Where is it written?

Why is it True?

 

Regards,

- Debanjan Ray

________________________________

From: brahmoconferenceorg@...
[mailto:brahmoconferenceorg@...] On Behalf Of Rahul Dev
Sharma
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 2:28 PM
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Subject: Re: [brahmoconferenceorg] X'mas Greetings

 

Dear Fellow members

Even a cursory reading of the Bible shows the vast chasm between
Brahmoism and Christianity which the Christians in our midst should be
aware of.

For example the book of Genesis (1:26, 1;27 and 2:7) we are told by
Christians that "God created Man in his own image from the dust of the
earth". Rammohan had challenged this and we say that to the contrary
"it was Man who creates (idols of) God from the dust of the earth.".
Rammohan foresaw the great importance for Christians that Man is in
God's image for does not Christ have the same image as his Father GOD
(Corinthians).

Another example would be of the "Fatherhood of God". This is a
decidedly Christian concept (inserted by Keshab Sen) antithetical to
Brahmoism where the "Godhood of father" is upheld. Christianity asks
us to accept that Christ is God's son and that salvation lies through
God's Son and his chosen representatives on earth (namely Popery).
Keshab went on to introduce more alien Christian concepts "Motherhood
of God", "Kingdom of God" "Loyalty to Sovereign" etc which True
Brahmos reject out of hand.

Nay, Brahmoism is to be regarded as the highest form of a much debased
Hinduism, a Hinduism which has now ceased to be Brahmoism.

Rahul

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Sumanta-Sandhya Niyogi
<sumantaniyogi@... <mailto:sumantaniyogi%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
> Dear Friends and Fellow-members,
> Merry Christmas. On this solemn occasion we pray,"May the Almighty
> God and one of his noblest sons, Lord Jesus Christ shower Their
choicest
> blessings on you all." Jesus Christ is such a universally loved and
revered
> soul that even in our Hindu-majority country there are millionms and
> millions of people who virtually worship him. It gives us a wonderful
> feeling to send our greetings to you on such a grand occasion. May his
> sermons, the words of wisdom and benevolence, guide, protect and
inspire us
> all. As Brahmos,we feel proud of the way Raja Rammohun in his classic
work,
> The Precepts of Jesus, and Swami Vivekananda (his broadness and
liberality
> originated from his Brahmo background) in his Thus Spake the Christ,
paid
> their homage to Jesus Christ. Vivekananda wrote, "If I, as an
Oriental, am
> to worship Jesus of Nazareth, there is only one way left to me, that
is to
> worship Him as God and nothing else." This reflects our universal and
> cosmopolitan tradition. Interestingly enough, it is the Brahmo Samaj
which
> was the first Indian non-Christian religious community to start the
annual
> celebration of the Chritmas and to conduct upasana on the occasion.
Later
> the Ramakrishna Mission follow3ed the example.
> On such a holy occasion we generally make it a point to read the
> Holy Bible, at least some portions, if not the whole, of it. This time
one
> message of Jesus that deeply touched us is that one should not
evaluate what
> he/she has got or could not get from God, but should find joy and
happiness
> from His divine presence within himself/herself all the time and the
way he
> protected us at different times. That will bring greatest satisfaction
to
> everyone and this will be as good as the key to the Kingdom of God.
What a
> profound message and so similar to the thoughts of our ancient sages
and
> Brahmo pioneers.
> Regards,
> Yours truly,
> Sumanta and Sandhya Niyogi
>

 



 
 
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[Rahul Dev Sharma]

Dear Mr Debanjan Ray

For instance,
"True Brahmos abhor any kind of image worship."
"True Brahmos respect the 1830 Trust deed of the Samaj which forbids
the admission of any graven work, painting, sculpture or image etc
into the premises"

It is written at many places. For example you can read page 87 of
"Calcutta: A Cultural and Literary History
By Krishna Dutta, fwd by Anita Desai, Published by Signal Books, 2003,
ISBN 1902669592, 9781902669595"
where this is written.

It is True because there are many False Brahmos who ressurect
Rammohan's bust and install it in their False Samajes to pray to.  And
in which False Samajes "Fatherhood of God",  "Motherhood of God",
"Kingdom of God" and "Loyalty to Sovereign" are taught (falsely) as
Brahmic doctrine.

Rahul

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Ray, Debanjan  IN BLR SISL
<debanjan.ray@...> wrote:

> Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma,
>
> What is the definition of True Brahmo?
>
> Where is it written?
>
> Why is it True?
>
> Regards,
>
> - Debanjan Ray
>

[Malay Sanyal]

>RE: [brahmoconferenceorg] X'mas Greetings
>
>Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma,
>
>What is the definition of True Brahmo?
>
>Where is it written?
>
>Why is it True?
>
>Regards,
>- Debanjan Ray

You may refer to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brahmoconferenceorg/message/157
and make your own decision

Malay Sanyal

Some group members have sought clarification on
"True Brahmos and False Brahmos" and some other incidentals.

Our position on these subjects is:-

1) Brahmoism is the highest form of Hinduism, and is so very different
from what passes for Hinduism today that Brahmos consider themselves
to be "beyond the pale of Hinduism" and a separate religion altogether.

2) A "True" Brahmo is either an adherent of Brahmoism to the exclusion of
all other religions, or a person with at least one Brahmo parent or
guardian and who has never denied his faith.

3) "False" Brahmos are those who believe that "following" the principles
of Brahmoism is sufficient. These people have given Brahmoism a very
bad reputation. Prominent examples of such "False" Brahmos are "Keshub
Chunder Sen" and Nabobidhan "New Dispensation" who have preached and
propagated Rosicrucianism and other Masonic beliefs in the guise of
Brahmoism. Even today they operate secret societies to attract
neophytes to their symbolic devil worship in the name of Brahmoism.

4) To distinguish Brahmoism from such fakes and charlatans,  the Brahmo
religion was compelled to rename itself, first as the "Adi Brahmo
Samaj" and later the religious aspect was termed as "Adi Dharm". Our
religion has no secrets or mysticism or initiation or rites or
rituals. The creed and tenets are widely known, anyone can follow and
practice them.

   1. There is only One "Supreme Spirit", Author and Preserver of Existence
   2. There is no salvation and no way to achieve it.
   3. There is no scripture, revelation, creation, prophet, priest or
teacher to be revered
   4. There is no distinction.

Once these core principles are accepted we progress to our complete
"articles of faith" which define our "Dharmic" religion

    * Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.
    * Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous
intuition (observation) as guides.
    * Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and
imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation
of religious belief by government).
    * Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with
governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo
principles.
    * Brahmos reject narrow theism (epecially polytheism), idolatry,
ascetism and symbolism.
    * Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places
(church, temple, mosque) for worship.
    * Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.
    * Brahmos reject scripture as authority.
    * Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or
avatars as authority.
    * Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.
    * Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.
    * Brahmos reject the prevalent notion of "sin".
    * Brahmos reject the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".
    * Brahmos reject the prevalent notion of "salvation".

The test of a Brahmo Samajist (the wider community which follows
Brahmoism) is acceptance of the Trust Deed principles settled
permanently in law by Rammohun Roy, Dwarakanath Tagore etc.

The test of a Brahmo religionist is if he adheres scrupulously to the
Adi Dharm principles and submits to the binding Articles of Faith.

Everyone else is unworthy of the Brahmo name and needs to be denounced.

Yours
Shantanu Lahiri
Hony President Brahmo Conference Organisation (1881)

[biswajit dutta-2]

Dear All ,
Was this a mail sent by Shantanu Lahiri or Malay Sanyal ?

You have mentioned the following :-
 "Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,

creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings."
If I am not mistaken , not too long back you were extolling the virtues of caste system . Shall you now explain it away with some new logic ? Perhaps say , I completely misunderstood you . Would the "True Brahmo" now stand up & clarify please ?
Biswajit Dutta

--- On Sun, 25/1/09, Malay Sanyal <malay.sanyal@...> wrote:
From: Malay Sanyal <malay.sanyal@...>
Subject: RE: [brahmoconferenceorg] X'mas Greetings
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Date: Sunday, 25 January, 2009, 7:33 AM










   
            >RE: [brahmoconferenceor g] X'mas Greetings

>

>Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma,

>

>What is the definition of True Brahmo?

>

>Where is it written?

>

>Why is it True?

>

>Regards,

>- Debanjan Ray



You may refer to

http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/brahmoconf erenceorg/ message/157

and make your own decision



Malay Sanyal



Some group members have sought clarification on

"True Brahmos and False Brahmos" and some other incidentals.



Our position on these subjects is:-



1) Brahmoism is the highest form of Hinduism, and is so very different

from what passes for Hinduism today that Brahmos consider themselves

to be "beyond the pale of Hinduism" and a separate religion altogether.



2) A "True" Brahmo is either an adherent of Brahmoism to the exclusion of

all other religions, or a person with at least one Brahmo parent or

guardian and who has never denied his faith.



3) "False" Brahmos are those who believe that "following" the principles

of Brahmoism is sufficient. These people have given Brahmoism a very

bad reputation. Prominent examples of such "False" Brahmos are "Keshub

Chunder Sen" and Nabobidhan "New Dispensation" who have preached and

propagated Rosicrucianism and other Masonic beliefs in the guise of

Brahmoism. Even today they operate secret societies to attract

neophytes to their symbolic devil worship in the name of Brahmoism.



4) To distinguish Brahmoism from such fakes and charlatans,  the Brahmo

religion was compelled to rename itself, first as the "Adi Brahmo

Samaj" and later the religious aspect was termed as "Adi Dharm". Our

religion has no secrets or mysticism or initiation or rites or

rituals. The creed and tenets are widely known, anyone can follow and

practice them.



1. There is only One "Supreme Spirit", Author and Preserver of Existence

   2. There is no salvation and no way to achieve it.

   3. There is no scripture, revelation, creation, prophet, priest or

teacher to be revered

   4. There is no distinction.



Once these core principles are accepted we progress to our complete

"articles of faith" which define our "Dharmic" religion



* Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.

    * Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous

intuition (observation) as guides.

    * Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and

imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation

of religious belief by government).

    * Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with

governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo

principles.

    * Brahmos reject narrow theism (epecially polytheism), idolatry,

ascetism and symbolism.

    * Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places

(church, temple, mosque) for worship.

    * Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.

    * Brahmos reject scripture as authority.

    * Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or

avatars as authority.

    * Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,

creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.

    * Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.

    * Brahmos reject the prevalent notion of "sin".

    * Brahmos reject the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".

    * Brahmos reject the prevalent notion of "salvation".



The test of a Brahmo Samajist (the wider community which follows

Brahmoism) is acceptance of the Trust Deed principles settled

permanently in law by Rammohun Roy, Dwarakanath Tagore etc.



The test of a Brahmo religionist is if he adheres scrupulously to the

Adi Dharm principles and submits to the binding Articles of Faith.



Everyone else is unworthy of the Brahmo name and needs to be denounced.



Yours

Shantanu Lahiri

Hony President Brahmo Conference Organisation (1881)


     

   
   
       
         
       
       








       


       
       


      Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/

[Malay Sanyal]

>RE: [brahmoconferenceorg] X'mas Greetings
>
>Dear All ,
>Was this a mail sent by Shantanu Lahiri or Malay Sanyal ?
>
>You have mentioned the following :-
>"Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
>creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings."
>If I am not mistaken , not too long back you were extolling the virtues of caste system . Shall you >now explain it away with some new logic ? Perhaps say , I completely misunderstood you . >Would the "True Brahmo" now stand up & clarify please ?
>Biswajit Dutta

Dear Mr Dutta,

I reminded Mr. D Ray of the previous email by Shantanu Lahiri and
included the text of the earlier message for Mr. Ray's convenience.

In one of my own earlier messages addressed to you, we had already
discussed caste and distinctions. The consistent stand of the Adi
Brahmo Samaj since it's inception has been that we (Brahmos) are not
opposed to caste or creed etc per se but to the "irrational
distinctions" consequent to such divisions. There is much to be said
positively for the caste system and as a social institution - it is
the perversions and distortions of the caste system including
Brahminism   Kulinism etc which our leaders like Rammohun etc set out
to reform and remove.

It is a great pity that the consistent position of the Adi Brahmo
Samaj on this issue is repeatedly questioned and distorted to project
a false picture. It is immaterial to us if people have castes or not,
(or creeds or not) - it is their private affair - and such matters are
not to be raked up within Samaj premises especially for divisive ends.

Are there any another aspects of "True" Brahmoism, its doctrine,
articles of faith etc which you  take serious exception to? (NB: We
have already discussed the salvation / no salvation differences -
which devolves around the "optional" Brahmic belief in Karmic cycles)

Malay

[bikash.roy02]

Brahmoism is somewhat unique in bringing together people who have an interest in religion but at the same time are skeptical about infantile dogma or ceremony which are external trappings of religion and the most obvious difference between one religion and the next. In fact, the Brahmos were pioneers of what is today the academic specialty of comparative religion, making a serious attempt to understand Christianity and Islam and to extract the common core of those religions and Hindu tradition into a set of stated principles of belief and conduct that comported with science and reason. Brahmos therefore rejected all dogma but at the same time recognized the value of the ethical teaching and the mental discipline inculcated in various religious traditions. Brahmo approaches to religion had some common features with the intellectual atmosphere of the Scottish Enlightenment embodied in figures ranging from Adam Smith to Alexander Duff which is not surprising given the level of interaction between Scots expatriates and elite groups in Bengal.

Where you go seriously wrong is in siezing upon isolated passages of the Old Testament (or New Testament), which is common to both Christians and Jews, and claiming that this or that isolated fact proves a Chinese wall exists between this religion or that religion when one should really view religions, or better still, the distinctive traditions within religions as belief systems having multiple components. You cannot equate Christianity with "Popery." Only Roman Catholics acknowledge the authority of the Pope. Other Christians do not. Some Christians such as Anglicans or Episcopalians recognize priests. Most non-conformists or dissenters, who are the majority of Christians in the US, do not even recognize priesthood in the Catholic/Episcopal sense. So, clearly, "Popery" is not a common denominator of Christianity--neither is the observance of X'Mas as a particularly religious occasion. Moreover, the expression "Popery" comes from the era of the religious wars in Europe and is the same sort of expression as 'kaffir' or 'mleccha' used in religious street fights that should horrify anyone claiming a Brahmo heritage. I have responded in the X'mas greeting thread where I found the original poster's comment but anyone wishing to respond may wish to start a new thread.  


--- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., "Rahul Dev Sharma" <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

>
> Dear Fellow members
>
> Even a cursory reading of the Bible shows the vast chasm between
> Brahmoism and Christianity which the Christians in our midst should be
> aware of.
>
> For example the book of Genesis (1:26, 1;27 and 2:7) we are told by
> Christians that "God created Man in his own image from the dust of the
> earth". Rammohan had challenged this and we say that to the contrary
> "it was Man who creates (idols of) God from the dust of the earth.".
> Rammohan foresaw the great importance for Christians that Man is in
> God's image for does not Christ have the same image as his Father GOD
> (Corinthians).
>
> Another example would be of the "Fatherhood of God". This is a
> decidedly Christian concept (inserted by Keshab Sen) antithetical to
> Brahmoism where the "Godhood of father" is upheld. Christianity asks
> us to accept that Christ is God's son and that salvation lies through
> God's Son and his chosen representatives on earth (namely Popery).
> Keshab went on to introduce more alien Christian concepts "Motherhood
> of God", "Kingdom of God" "Loyalty to Sovereign" etc which True
> Brahmos reject out of hand.
>
> Nay, Brahmoism is to be regarded as the highest form of a much debased
> Hinduism, a Hinduism which has now ceased to be Brahmoism.
>
> Rahul
>
> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Sumanta-Sandhya Niyogi
> <sumantaniyogi@...> wrote:
> > Dear Friends and Fellow-members,
> >        Merry Christmas.  On this solemn occasion we pray,"May the Almighty
> > God and one of his noblest sons, Lord Jesus Christ shower Their choicest
> > blessings on you all." Jesus Christ is such a universally loved and revered
> > soul that even in our Hindu-majority country there are millionms and
> > millions of people who virtually worship him. It gives us a wonderful
> > feeling to send our greetings to you on such a grand occasion. May his
> > sermons, the words of wisdom and benevolence, guide, protect and inspire us
> > all.  As Brahmos,we feel proud of the way Raja Rammohun in his classic work,
> > The Precepts of Jesus, and Swami Vivekananda (his broadness and liberality
> > originated from his Brahmo background) in his Thus Spake the Christ, paid
> > their homage to Jesus Christ.  Vivekananda wrote, "If I, as an Oriental, am
> > to worship Jesus of Nazareth, there is only one way left to me, that is to
> > worship Him as God and nothing else." This reflects our universal and
> > cosmopolitan tradition. Interestingly enough, it is the Brahmo Samaj which
> > was the first Indian non-Christian religious community to start the annual
> > celebration of the Chritmas and to conduct upasana on the occasion. Later
> > the Ramakrishna Mission follow3ed the example.
> >            On such a holy occasion we generally make it a point to read the
> > Holy Bible, at least some portions, if not the whole, of it. This time one
> > message of Jesus that deeply touched us is that one should not evaluate what
> > he/she has got or could not get from God, but should find joy and happiness
> > from His divine presence within himself/herself all the time and the way he
> > protected us at different times. That will bring greatest satisfaction to
> > everyone and this will be as good as the key to the Kingdom of God. What a
> > profound message and so similar to the thoughts of our ancient sages and
> > Brahmo pioneers.
> > Regards,
> > Yours truly,
> > Sumanta and Sandhya Niyogi
> >
>

[Rahul Dev Sharma]

Dear Mr Roy

There are a few assumptions in your message :-

1) Brahmoism is NOT a Unitarian-Universalism club where religions are
compared.

2) Brahmoism is NOT a manufactured religion artificially synthesized out of
disparate strands of Islam, Christianity and Hinduism etc. Brahmoism IS
ancient Hinduism, even the word Brahma long predates "Abraham", "Ibrahim"
etc of later Judeo-Islamic theologies which "embody" the One God into a
"prophet". This incidentally is why our Trustees explicitly prohibited any
appellation being attached to / associated with  "God".

3) Alexander Duff WAS opposed to what is now modern Brahmoism.

4) I did NOT equate Christianity to "Popery". I was careful to distinguish
the "Popery" element from Christianity when it touched upon Christ's
divinity. Incidentally which part of Christianity denies Christ's descent
from God ?

5) I respect your decision to limit your comments to the original poster, Dr
Sumanta Niyogi who started this thread and who curiously (for a Brahmo)
accepts a) Christ's descent from God, b) Swami Vikeknand's "Brahmo
background" (disregarding the insults Narendra later heaped on us in the
Epistles etc).

Rahul D

On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:55 PM, bikash.roy02 <bikashroy02@...> wrote:
>
> Brahmoism is somewhat unique in bringing together people who have an
> interest in religion but at the same time are skeptical about infantile
> dogma or ceremony which are external trappings of religion and the most
> obvious difference between one religion and the next. In fact, the Brahmos
> were pioneers of what is today the academic specialty of comparative
> religion, making a serious attempt to understand Christianity and Islam
and
> to extract the common core of those religions and Hindu tradition into a
set
> of stated principles of belief and conduct that comported with science and
> reason. Brahmos therefore rejected all dogma but at the same time
recognized
> the value of the ethical teaching and the mental discipline inculcated in
> various religious traditions. Brahmo approaches to religion had some
common
> features with the intellectual atmosphere of the Scottish Enlightenment
> embodied in figures ranging from Adam Smith to Alexander Duff which is not
> surprising given the level of interaction between Scots expatriates and
> elite groups in Bengal.
>
> Where you go seriously wrong is in siezing upon isolated passages of the
Old
> Testament (or New Testament), which is common to both Christians and Jews,
> and claiming that this or that isolated fact proves a Chinese wall exists
> between this religion or that religion when one should really view
> religions, or better still, the distinctive traditions within religions as
> belief systems having multiple components. You cannot equate Christianity
> with "Popery." Only Roman Catholics acknowledge the authority of the Pope.
> Other Christians do not. Some Christians such as Anglicans or
Episcopalians
> recognize priests. Most non-conformists or dissenters, who are the
majority
> of Christians in the US, do not even recognize priesthood in the
> Catholic/Episcopal sense. So, clearly, "Popery" is not a common
denominator
> of Christianity--neither is the observance of X'Mas as a particularly
> religious occasion. Moreover, the expression "Popery" comes from the era
of
> the religious wars in Europe and is the same sort of expression as
'kaffir'

> or 'mleccha' used in religious street fights that should horrify anyone
> claiming a Brahmo heritage. I have responded in the X'mas greeting thread
> where I found the original poster's comment but anyone wishing to respond
> may wish to start a new thread.
>
> --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., "Rahul Dev Sharma"
> <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Fellow members
>>
>> Even a cursory reading of the Bible shows the vast chasm between
>> Brahmoism and Christianity which the Christians in our midst should be
>> aware of.
>>
>> For example the book of Genesis (1:26, 1;27 and 2:7) we are told by
>> Christians that "God created Man in his own image from the dust of the
>> earth". Rammohan had challenged this and we say that to the contrary
>> "it was Man who creates (idols of) God from the dust of the earth.".
>> Rammohan foresaw the great importance for Christians that Man is in
>> God's image for does not Christ have the same image as his Father GOD
>> (Corinthians).
>>
>> Another example would be of the "Fatherhood of God". This is a
>> decidedly Christian concept (inserted by Keshab Sen) antithetical to
>> Brahmoism where the "Godhood of father" is upheld. Christianity asks
>> us to accept that Christ is God's son and that salvation lies through
>> God's Son and his chosen representatives on earth (namely Popery).
>> Keshab went on to introduce more alien Christian concepts "Motherhood
>> of God", "Kingdom of God" "Loyalty to Sovereign" etc which True
>> Brahmos reject out of hand.
>>
>> Nay, Brahmoism is to be regarded as the highest form of a much debased
>> Hinduism, a Hinduism which has now ceased to be Brahmoism.
>>
>> Rahul
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Sumanta-Sandhya Niyogi
>> <sumantaniyogi@...> wrote:
>> > Dear Friends and Fellow-members,
>> > Merry Christmas. On this solemn occasion we pray,"May the Almighty
>> > God and one of his noblest sons, Lord Jesus Christ shower Their

choicest
>> > blessings on you all." Jesus Christ is such a universally loved and
>> > revered
>> > soul that even in our Hindu-majority country there are millionms and
>> > millions of people who virtually worship him. It gives us a wonderful
>> > feeling to send our greetings to you on such a grand occasion. May his
>> > sermons, the words of wisdom and benevolence, guide, protect and
inspire

>> > us
>> > all. As Brahmos,we feel proud of the way Raja Rammohun in his classic
>> > work,
>> > The Precepts of Jesus, and Swami Vivekananda (his broadness and
>> > liberality
>> > originated from his Brahmo background) in his Thus Spake the Christ,
>> > paid
>> > their homage to Jesus Christ. Vivekananda wrote, "If I, as an Oriental,
>> > am
>> > to worship Jesus of Nazareth, there is only one way left to me, that is
>> > to
>> > worship Him as God and nothing else." This reflects our universal and
>> > cosmopolitan tradition. Interestingly enough, it is the Brahmo Samaj
>> > which
>> > was the first Indian non-Christian religious community to start the
>> > annual
>> > celebration of the Chritmas and to conduct upasana on the occasion.
>> > Later
>> > the Ramakrishna Mission follow3ed the example.
>> > On such a holy occasion we generally make it a point to read the
>> > Holy Bible, at least some portions, if not the whole, of it. This time
>> > one
>> > message of Jesus that deeply touched us is that one should not evaluate
>> > what
>> > he/she has got or could not get from God, but should find joy and
>> > happiness
>> > from His divine presence within himself/herself all the time and the

way
>> > he
>> > protected us at different times. That will bring greatest satisfaction
>> > to
>> > everyone and this will be as good as the key to the Kingdom of God.
What
>> > a
>> > profound message and so similar to the thoughts of our ancient sages
and
>> > Brahmo pioneers.
>> > Regards,
>> > Yours truly,
>> > Sumanta and Sandhya Niyogi
>> >
>>
>
>

[biswajit dutta-2]

Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
In his treatise , "The Mission of the Brahmo Samaj" , Pandit Sivanath Sastri said :
"The Mission of the Brahmo Samaj or the Theistic Church of India in the modern world is unique ; & the work that it has undertaken to do is altogether new :-viz., to organise a system of religious culture , & to build a church on the basis of natural & universal theism........ . The Theistic Church of India has a great & glorious mission as far as this country is concerned , namely , to fuse in a bond of spiritual union the conflicting claims of Hinduism , Mahomedanism & Christianity , by laying insistence on their universal aspects ; for certainly that was the grand ideal before the mind of Raja Rammohun Roy , the founder of the Brahmo Samaj."

Doesn't it then run counter to some of your contentions in points 1 & 2 ? Brahmoism has its unitarian aspects & is some kind of distilled synthesis of other religions - mainly Hinduism , Islam & Christianity .
Regards,
Biswajit Dutta


--- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

From: Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...>
Subject: Re: [brahmoconferenceorg] Re: X'mas Greetings
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Date: Saturday, 14 March, 2009, 12:34 PM











   
            Dear Mr Roy

There are a few assumptions in your message :-

1) Brahmoism is NOT a Unitarian-Universal ism club where religions are compared.

2) Brahmoism is NOT a manufactured religion artificially synthesized out of disparate strands of Islam, Christianity and Hinduism etc. Brahmoism IS ancient Hinduism, even the word Brahma long predates "Abraham", "Ibrahim" etc of later Judeo-Islamic theologies which "embody" the One God into a "prophet". This incidentally is why our Trustees explicitly prohibited any appellation being attached to / associated with  "God".


3) Alexander Duff WAS opposed to what is now modern Brahmoism.

4) I did NOT equate Christianity to "Popery". I was careful to distinguish the "Popery" element from Christianity when it touched upon Christ's divinity. Incidentally which part of Christianity denies Christ's descent from God ?


5) I respect your decision to limit your comments to the original poster, Dr Sumanta Niyogi who started this thread and who curiously (for a Brahmo) accepts a) Christ's descent from God, b) Swami Vikeknand's "Brahmo background" (disregarding the insults Narendra later heaped on us in the Epistles etc).


Rahul D

On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:55 PM, bikash.roy02 <bikashroy02@ gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Brahmoism is somewhat unique in bringing together people who have an


> interest in religion but at the same time are skeptical about infantile
> dogma or ceremony which are external trappings of religion and the most
> obvious difference between one religion and the next. In fact, the Brahmos


> were pioneers of what is today the academic specialty of comparative
> religion, making a serious attempt to understand Christianity and Islam and
> to extract the common core of those religions and Hindu tradition into a set


> of stated principles of belief and conduct that comported with science and
> reason. Brahmos therefore rejected all dogma but at the same time recognized
> the value of the ethical teaching and the mental discipline inculcated in


> various religious traditions. Brahmo approaches to religion had some common
> features with the intellectual atmosphere of the Scottish Enlightenment
> embodied in figures ranging from Adam Smith to Alexander Duff which is not


> surprising given the level of interaction between Scots expatriates and
> elite groups in Bengal.
>
> Where you go seriously wrong is in siezing upon isolated passages of the Old
> Testament (or New Testament), which is common to both Christians and Jews,


> and claiming that this or that isolated fact proves a Chinese wall exists
> between this religion or that religion when one should really view
> religions, or better still, the distinctive traditions within religions as


> belief systems having multiple components. You cannot equate Christianity
> with "Popery." Only Roman Catholics acknowledge the authority of the Pope.
> Other Christians do not. Some Christians such as Anglicans or Episcopalians


> recognize priests. Most non-conformists or dissenters, who are the majority
> of Christians in the US, do not even recognize priesthood in the
> Catholic/Episcopal sense. So, clearly, "Popery" is not a common denominator


> of Christianity- -neither is the observance of X'Mas as a particularly
> religious occasion. Moreover, the expression "Popery" comes from the era of
> the religious wars in Europe and is the same sort of expression as 'kaffir'


> or 'mleccha' used in religious street fights that should horrify anyone
> claiming a Brahmo heritage. I have responded in the X'mas greeting thread
> where I found the original poster's comment but anyone wishing to respond


> may wish to start a new thread.
>
> --- In brahmoconferenceorg @yahoogroups. com, "Rahul Dev Sharma"
> <rahul.dvsharma@ ...> wrote:


>>
>> Dear Fellow members
>>
>> Even a cursory reading of the Bible shows the vast chasm between
>> Brahmoism and Christianity which the Christians in our midst should be
>> aware of.


>>
>> For example the book of Genesis (1:26, 1;27 and 2:7) we are told by
>> Christians that "God created Man in his own image from the dust of the
>> earth". Rammohan had challenged this and we say that to the contrary


>> "it was Man who creates (idols of) God from the dust of the earth.".
>> Rammohan foresaw the great importance for Christians that Man is in
>> God's image for does not Christ have the same image as his Father GOD


>> (Corinthians) .
>>
>> Another example would be of the "Fatherhood of God". This is a
>> decidedly Christian concept (inserted by Keshab Sen) antithetical to
>> Brahmoism where the "Godhood of father" is upheld. Christianity asks


>> us to accept that Christ is God's son and that salvation lies through
>> God's Son and his chosen representatives on earth (namely Popery).
>> Keshab went on to introduce more alien Christian concepts "Motherhood


>> of God", "Kingdom of God" "Loyalty to Sovereign" etc which True
>> Brahmos reject out of hand.
>>
>> Nay, Brahmoism is to be regarded as the highest form of a much debased


>> Hinduism, a Hinduism which has now ceased to be Brahmoism.
>>
>> Rahul
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Sumanta-Sandhya Niyogi
>> <sumantaniyogi@ ...> wrote:


>> > Dear Friends and Fellow-members,
>> > Merry Christmas. On this solemn occasion we pray,"May the Almighty
>> > God and one of his noblest sons, Lord Jesus Christ shower Their choicest


>> > blessings on you all." Jesus Christ is such a universally loved and
>> > revered
>> > soul that even in our Hindu-majority country there are millionms and
>> > millions of people who virtually worship him. It gives us a wonderful


>> > feeling to send our greetings to you on such a grand occasion. May his
>> > sermons, the words of wisdom and benevolence, guide, protect and inspire
>> > us
>> > all. As Brahmos,we feel proud of the way Raja Rammohun in his classic


>> > work,
>> > The Precepts of Jesus, and Swami Vivekananda (his broadness and
>> > liberality
>> > originated from his Brahmo background) in his Thus Spake the Christ,
>> > paid


>> > their homage to Jesus Christ. Vivekananda wrote, "If I, as an Oriental,
>> > am
>> > to worship Jesus of Nazareth, there is only one way left to me, that is
>> > to


>> > worship Him as God and nothing else." This reflects our universal and
>> > cosmopolitan tradition. Interestingly enough, it is the Brahmo Samaj
>> > which
>> > was the first Indian non-Christian religious community to start the


>> > annual
>> > celebration of the Chritmas and to conduct upasana on the occasion.
>> > Later
>> > the Ramakrishna Mission follow3ed the example.
>> > On such a holy occasion we generally make it a point to read the


>> > Holy Bible, at least some portions, if not the whole, of it. This time
>> > one
>> > message of Jesus that deeply touched us is that one should not evaluate
>> > what

>> > he/she has got or could not get from God, but should find joy and

>> > happiness
>> > from His divine presence within himself/herself all the time and the way
>> > he
>> > protected us at different times. That will bring greatest satisfaction


>> > to
>> > everyone and this will be as good as the key to the Kingdom of God. What
>> > a
>> > profound message and so similar to the thoughts of our ancient sages and
>> > Brahmo pioneers.


>> > Regards,
>> > Yours truly,
>> > Sumanta and Sandhya Niyogi
>> >
>>
>
>



 

     

   
   
       
         
       
       








       


       
       


      From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/

[Rahul Dev Sharma]

Dear Mr Biswajit Dutta

No inconsistency

1) Brahmo Samaj (universalism) <> Brahmoism (nationalism)

2) Distillation <> Decantation

3) Sibnath Sastri => Sadharan Brahmo Samaj (Ordinary Theistic CHURCH)
=> dregs (decantation) of Brahmoism.

Rahul

PS: "In compiling this history I have used every available source of
information ; such, for instance,
as Mr. G. S. Leonard's " History of the Brahmo Samaj", Rev. Bhai T. N.
Sanyal's History of the
Brahmo Samaj in Bengali, Miss S. D. Collet's Brahmo Year Books, her
short " History of the
Brahmo Samaj," and her life of Rajah Rammohun Roy, Rev. Bhai P. C.
Mozoomdar's Life of
Keshub Chunder Sen," Rev. Bhai Gour Govinda Upadhyaya's Bengali life
of Minister Keshub
Chunder Sen, Banka Behari Kar's " Life of Bijay Krishna Goswami,"
Maharshi Devendra Nath
Tagore's Autobiography and Mr. Sen's lectures and sermons ; for the
rest I have depended upon
other sources of information and also upon my own memory."

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 1:25 PM, <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:

>
> Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
> In his treatise , "The Mission of the Brahmo Samaj" , Pandit Sivanath Sastri said :
> "The Mission of the Brahmo Samaj or the Theistic Church of India in the modern world is unique ; & the work that it has undertaken to do is altogether new :-viz., to organise a system of religious culture , & to build a church on the basis of natural & universal theism........ . The Theistic Church of India has a great & glorious mission as far as this country is concerned , namely , to fuse in a bond of spiritual union the conflicting claims of Hinduism , Mahomedanism & Christianity , by laying insistence on their universal aspects ; for certainly that was the grand ideal before the mind of Raja Rammohun Roy , the founder of the Brahmo Samaj."
>
> Doesn't it then run counter to some of your contentions in points 1 & 2 ? Brahmoism has its unitarian aspects & is some kind of distilled synthesis of other religions - mainly Hinduism , Islam & Christianity .
> Regards,
> Biswajit Dutta
>
>

[biswajit dutta-2]

It appears that you make an artificial distinction between Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism . I am afraid your views may not resonate with the majority for whom :-
a)Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism are not at cross purposes .
b)The terms "universalism" & "nationalism" may not be mutually exclusive . That I have a tolerant/open/rational mind willing to imbibe global best practices does not mean I am anti-national or less nationalistic . On the contrary , universalism can lead to improved nationalism .
c)By distillation of essence(accepting only what is suitable/relevant) from other religions Brahmoism has become a better religion . There is no harm in assimilating the good or the great from others .
d)Sivanath Sastri's interpretation of Brahmo history finds wide acceptablity with most Brahmos .
e)I don't know by what yardstick , Sadharan Samajis can be regarded to be the basest of Brahmos ? This appears to be too sweeping a statement .  

Biswajit Dutta

--- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

From: Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...>
Subject: Re: [brahmoconferenceorg] Re: X'mas Greetings
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Date: Saturday, 14 March, 2009, 2:55 PM











   
            Dear Mr Biswajit Dutta



No inconsistency



1) Brahmo Samaj (universalism) <> Brahmoism (nationalism)



2) Distillation <> Decantation



3) Sibnath Sastri => Sadharan Brahmo Samaj (Ordinary Theistic CHURCH)

=> dregs (decantation) of Brahmoism.



Rahul



PS: "In compiling this history I have used every available source of

information ; such, for instance,

as Mr. G. S. Leonard's " History of the Brahmo Samaj", Rev. Bhai T. N.

Sanyal's History of the

Brahmo Samaj in Bengali, Miss S. D. Collet's Brahmo Year Books, her

short " History of the

Brahmo Samaj," and her life of Rajah Rammohun Roy, Rev. Bhai P. C.

Mozoomdar's Life of

Keshub Chunder Sen," Rev. Bhai Gour Govinda Upadhyaya's Bengali life

of Minister Keshub

Chunder Sen, Banka Behari Kar's " Life of Bijay Krishna Goswami,"

Maharshi Devendra Nath

Tagore's Autobiography and Mr. Sen's lectures and sermons ; for the

rest I have depended upon

other sources of information and also upon my own memory."



On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 1:25 PM, <bis_dutta2000@ yahoo.co. in> wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,

> In his treatise , "The Mission of the Brahmo Samaj" , Pandit Sivanath Sastri said :

> "The Mission of the Brahmo Samaj or the Theistic Church of India in the modern world is unique ; & the work that it has undertaken to do is altogether new :-viz., to organise a system of religious culture , & to build a church on the basis of natural & universal theism...... .. . The Theistic Church of India has a great & glorious mission as far as this country is concerned , namely , to fuse in a bond of spiritual union the conflicting claims of Hinduism , Mahomedanism & Christianity , by laying insistence on their universal aspects ; for certainly that was the grand ideal before the mind of Raja Rammohun Roy , the founder of the Brahmo Samaj."

>

> Doesn't it then run counter to some of your contentions in points 1 & 2 ? Brahmoism has its unitarian aspects & is some kind of distilled synthesis of other religions - mainly Hinduism , Islam & Christianity .

> Regards,

> Biswajit Dutta

>

>


 

     

   
   
       
         
       
       








       


       
       


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[Rahul Dev Sharma]

Brahmoism is a religious system, Brahmo Samajes are societies which
peddle a diluted (universally palatable) version of True Brahmoism.
What is peddled at Brahmo Samajes is more often than not unacceptable
to Brahmos.

I think you are confusing nationalism with patriotism.

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, biswajit dutta
<bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:

> It appears that you make an artificial distinction between Brahmo Samaj &
> Brahmoism . I am afraid your views may not resonate with the majority for
> whom :-
> a)Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism are not at cross purposes .
> b)The terms "universalism" & "nationalism" may not be mutually exclusive .
> That I have a tolerant/open/rational mind willing to imbibe global best
> practices does not mean I am anti-national or less nationalistic . On the
> contrary , universalism can lead to improved nationalism .
> c)By distillation of essence(accepting only what is suitable/relevant) from
> other religions Brahmoism has become a better religion . There is no harm in
> assimilating the good or the great from others .
> d)Sivanath Sastri's interpretation of Brahmo history finds wide acceptablity
> with most Brahmos .
> e)I don't know by what yardstick , Sadharan Samajis can be regarded to be
> the basest of Brahmos ? This appears to be too sweeping a statement .
>
> Biswajit Dutta
>
> --- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>

[biswajit dutta-2]

I am not too fond of the term nationalism as it may be anti peace . Brahmos should rather call themselves patriots than nationalists .

I give below an interesting view on this debate  :-

George Orwell wrote that nationalism was one of the worst enemies of
peace. He defined nationalism as the feeling that your way of life,
country, or ethnic group were superior to others. These types of
feelings lead a group to attempt to impose their morality on any given
situation. When those standards were not met, more often then not, war
would result.
In contrast he stated that patriotism was the feeling of admiration
for a way of life etc. and the willingness to defend it against attack.
The obvious difference between the two is that while patriotism is a
passive attitude, nationalism is aggressive by nature.
Should we thus be wary of Brahmo nationalists/moral policemen ?

Biswajit Dutta



--- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

From: Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...>
Subject: Re: [brahmoconferenceorg] Re: X'mas Greetings
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Date: Saturday, 14 March, 2009, 6:47 PM











   
            Brahmoism is a religious system, Brahmo Samajes are societies which

peddle a diluted (universally palatable) version of True Brahmoism.

What is peddled at Brahmo Samajes is more often than not unacceptable

to Brahmos.



I think you are confusing nationalism with patriotism.



On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, biswajit dutta

<bis_dutta2000@ yahoo.co. in> wrote:

> It appears that you make an artificial distinction between Brahmo Samaj &

> Brahmoism . I am afraid your views may not resonate with the majority for

> whom :-

> a)Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism are not at cross purposes .

> b)The terms "universalism" & "nationalism" may not be mutually exclusive .

> That I have a tolerant/open/ rational mind willing to imbibe global best

> practices does not mean I am anti-national or less nationalistic . On the

> contrary , universalism can lead to improved nationalism .

> c)By distillation of essence(accepting only what is suitable/relevant) from

> other religions Brahmoism has become a better religion . There is no harm in

> assimilating the good or the great from others .

> d)Sivanath Sastri's interpretation of Brahmo history finds wide acceptablity

> with most Brahmos .

> e)I don't know by what yardstick , Sadharan Samajis can be regarded to be

> the basest of Brahmos ? This appears to be too sweeping a statement .

>

> Biswajit Dutta

>

> --- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@ gmail.com> wrote:

>


 

     

   
   
       
         
       
       








       


       
       


      Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser, without download. Go to http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/

[Holger Lüttich]

Nationalism is is the practise of a nations typical way of life. It's not the same like chauvinism. Chauvinism means intolerance and propagating that one specific nation is the best. But no one is the best. Every nation has it's fascinating sides and merits and it's darks sides...

 


 


To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
From: bis_dutta2000@...
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:23:04 +0530
Subject: Re: [brahmoconferenceorg] Re: X'mas Greetings









It appears that you make an artificial distinction between Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism . I am afraid your views may not resonate with the majority for whom :-
a)Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism are not at cross purposes .
b)The terms "universalism" & "nationalism" may not be mutually exclusive . That I have a tolerant/open/rational mind willing to imbibe global best practices does not mean I am anti-national or less nationalistic . On the contrary , universalism can lead to improved nationalism .
c)By distillation of essence(accepting only what is suitable/relevant) from other religions Brahmoism has become a better religion . There is no harm in assimilating the good or the great from others .
d)Sivanath Sastri's interpretation of Brahmo history finds wide acceptablity with most Brahmos .
e)I don't know by what yardstick , Sadharan Samajis can be regarded to be the basest of Brahmos ? This appears to be too sweeping a statement .  

Biswajit Dutta

--- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:


From: Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...>
Subject: Re: [brahmoconferenceorg] Re: X'mas Greetings
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Date: Saturday, 14 March, 2009, 2:55 PM




Dear Mr Biswajit Dutta

No inconsistency

1) Brahmo Samaj (universalism) <> Brahmoism (nationalism)

2) Distillation <> Decantation

3) Sibnath Sastri => Sadharan Brahmo Samaj (Ordinary Theistic CHURCH)
=> dregs (decantation) of Brahmoism.

Rahul

PS: "In compiling this history I have used every available source of
information ; such, for instance,
as Mr. G. S. Leonard's " History of the Brahmo Samaj", Rev. Bhai T. N.
Sanyal's History of the
Brahmo Samaj in Bengali, Miss S. D. Collet's Brahmo Year Books, her
short " History of the
Brahmo Samaj," and her life of Rajah Rammohun Roy, Rev. Bhai P. C.
Mozoomdar's Life of
Keshub Chunder Sen," Rev. Bhai Gour Govinda Upadhyaya's Bengali life
of Minister Keshub
Chunder Sen, Banka Behari Kar's " Life of Bijay Krishna Goswami,"
Maharshi Devendra Nath
Tagore's Autobiography and Mr. Sen's lectures and sermons ; for the
rest I have depended upon
other sources of information and also upon my own memory."

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 1:25 PM, <bis_dutta2000@ yahoo.co. in> wrote:

>
> Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
> In his treatise , "The Mission of the Brahmo Samaj" , Pandit Sivanath Sastri said :
> "The Mission of the Brahmo Samaj or the Theistic Church of India in the modern world is unique ; & the work that it has undertaken to do is altogether new :-viz., to organise a system of religious culture , & to build a church on the basis of natural & universal theism...... .. . The Theistic Church of India has a great & glorious mission as far as this country is concerned , namely , to fuse in a bond of spiritual union the conflicting claims of Hinduism , Mahomedanism & Christianity , by laying insistence on their universal aspects ; for certainly that was the grand ideal before the mind of Raja Rammohun Roy , the founder of the Brahmo Samaj."
>
> Doesn't it then run counter to some of your contentions in points 1 & 2 ? Brahmoism has its unitarian aspects & is some kind of distilled synthesis of other religions - mainly Hinduism , Islam & Christianity .
> Regards,
> Biswajit Dutta
>
>

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[sroy1947-2]

"Peddling" ??? This raises an interesting issue - "Does Brahmoism permit donations to be collected within Samaj premises?"

"and that no sacrifice, offering or oblation of any kind or thing, shall ever be permitted therein;"

Sarbajit

--- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

>
> Brahmoism is a religious system, Brahmo Samajes are societies which
> peddle a diluted (universally palatable) version of True Brahmoism.
> What is peddled at Brahmo Samajes is more often than not unacceptable
> to Brahmos.
>
> I think you are confusing nationalism with patriotism.
>
> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, biswajit dutta
> <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:
> > It appears that you make an artificial distinction between Brahmo Samaj &
> > Brahmoism . I am afraid your views may not resonate with the majority for
> > whom :-
> > a)Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism are not at cross purposes .
> > b)The terms "universalism" & "nationalism" may not be mutually exclusive .
> > That I have a tolerant/open/rational mind willing to imbibe global best
> > practices does not mean I am anti-national or less nationalistic . On the
> > contrary , universalism can lead to improved nationalism .
> > c)By distillation of essence(accepting only what is suitable/relevant) from
> > other religions Brahmoism has become a better religion . There is no harm in
> > assimilating the good or the great from others .
> > d)Sivanath Sastri's interpretation of Brahmo history finds wide acceptablity
> > with most Brahmos .
> > e)I don't know by what yardstick , Sadharan Samajis can be regarded to be
> > the basest of Brahmos ? This appears to be too sweeping a statement .
> >
> > Biswajit Dutta
> >
> > --- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
> >
>

[Rahul Dev Sharma]

Dear Sarbajit

I was waiting for someone (other than I) to reply to your query.

The Anusthanic Brahmo movement frowns upon seeking donations in the
name of our religion. We base this upon the 1830 Trust Deed text which
forbids "oblations" and offerings to be collected within.

The Ananusthanics on the other hand are charlatans soliciting funds at
every stage. There can be no better example than this of  "Pandit"
Sitanath Tattwabhushan who in 1880 was one of the 8 Brahmos of Sylhet
who issued the provlamation denouncing Keshab Sen and Navabidhan. (see
Sivnath Sastri's History of the Brahmo Samaj"). Tattwabhushan (whose
real name was Sitanath Dutta) then tried to insert a pseudo-Brahmanism
into the Sadharan Brahmo Samaj by publishing in 1921 his "Manual of
Brahmic prayer and devotions" which exhorts the Sadharan adherents at
every stage to "donate" to the Brahmo Samaj. Got married ? - donate,
Recovered from illness ? - donate, Setting up a new Samaj ? - donate.

Although Tattwabhushan (Dutta) claimed to have compiled his devotional
manual from 4 sources - 2 Hindu podhattis, the Adi Samaj Anusthan
Paddati and the Navabidhan 'New Samhita', we find that such out and
out commercial practices are only in the Navabidhan Samhita followed
by one faction of Sadharan Samaj.

Dutta's manual was roundly denounced in 1921 when it was first
published and no sensible person would rely on it today except as an
awkward anachronism.

All right thinking Brahmos should be careful of these Dutta's in
Brahmoism, ie Sitanath (Tattwabhushan) Dutta, Narendra (Vivekanand)
Dutta etc and their descendants who have always been counted amongst
the enemies of True Brahmoism for trying to commercialise Brahmoism
into a Ramakrishna "Mission" model at every step.

Rahul

On 3/31/09, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:

> "Peddling" ??? This raises an interesting issue - "Does Brahmoism permit
> donations to be collected within Samaj premises?"
>
> "and that no sacrifice, offering or oblation of any kind or thing, shall
> ever be permitted therein;"
>
> Sarbajit
>
> --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma
> <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>>
>> Brahmoism is a religious system, Brahmo Samajes are societies which
>> peddle a diluted (universally palatable) version of True Brahmoism.
>> What is peddled at Brahmo Samajes is more often than not unacceptable
>> to Brahmos.
>>
>> I think you are confusing nationalism with patriotism.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, biswajit dutta
>> <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:
>> > It appears that you make an artificial distinction between Brahmo Samaj
>> > &
>> > Brahmoism . I am afraid your views may not resonate with the majority
>> > for
>> > whom :-
>> > a)Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism are not at cross purposes .
>> > b)The terms "universalism" & "nationalism" may not be mutually exclusive
>> > .
>> > That I have a tolerant/open/rational mind willing to imbibe global best
>> > practices does not mean I am anti-national or less nationalistic . On
>> > the
>> > contrary , universalism can lead to improved nationalism .
>> > c)By distillation of essence(accepting only what is suitable/relevant)
>> > from
>> > other religions Brahmoism has become a better religion . There is no
>> > harm in
>> > assimilating the good or the great from others .
>> > d)Sivanath Sastri's interpretation of Brahmo history finds wide
>> > acceptablity
>> > with most Brahmos .
>> > e)I don't know by what yardstick , Sadharan Samajis can be regarded to
>> > be
>> > the basest of Brahmos ? This appears to be too sweeping a statement .
>> >
>> > Biswajit Dutta
>> >
>> > --- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>> >
>>
>
>
>

[Shymal Dutta]

Dear Sir,

My name is Shymal DUTTA Basu. I am not a practiceing Brahmo and had joined
this group because my late grandmother was Brahmika before marriage and I
want to learn about Brahmo Samaj..

Please remove me from the group because I have now decided to go as far from
Brahmo Samaj as I can. This is the only religion group
where people are asked for complete family history and "identity proof" to
join.

*>>Dear Mr. Shyamal Dutta,*
*>>Thanks a lot for showing interest to join this brahmoconference group.*
*>>Since, this is a moderated group, we would like to have a small due
diligence before we include you in this >>group. Could you pl. answer
following questions?*
*>>1) How did you come to know about the existence of this group?
>>2) Do you know any existing member of this group? Or, any prominent Brahmo
whom you know?
>>3) Are you Brahmo by birth (does anyone of your parents is Brahmo?)?
>>4) Could you give a little bit background about yourself?
>>5) Could you pl. send me some proof of identity ?*
*>>
>>With best regards,
>>Debanjan Ray*

Shymal Dutta Basu
(Dept of Sociology)
University of California at Merced

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Rahul Dev Sharma
<rahul.dvsharma@...>wrote:

>
>
> Dear Sarbajit
>
> I was waiting for someone (other than I) to reply to your query.
>
> The Anusthanic Brahmo movement frowns upon seeking donations in the
> name of our religion. We base this upon the 1830 Trust Deed text which
> forbids "oblations" and offerings to be collected within.
>
> The Ananusthanics on the other hand are charlatans soliciting funds at
> every stage. There can be no better example than this of "Pandit"
> Sitanath Tattwabhushan who in 1880 was one of the 8 Brahmos of Sylhet
> who issued the provlamation denouncing Keshab Sen and Navabidhan. (see
> Sivnath Sastri's History of the Brahmo Samaj"). Tattwabhushan (whose
> real name was Sitanath Dutta) then tried to insert a pseudo-Brahmanism
> into the Sadharan Brahmo Samaj by publishing in 1921 his "Manual of
> Brahmic prayer and devotions" which exhorts the Sadharan adherents at
> every stage to "donate" to the Brahmo Samaj. Got married ? - donate,
> Recovered from illness ? - donate, Setting up a new Samaj ? - donate.
>
> Although Tattwabhushan (Dutta) claimed to have compiled his devotional
> manual from 4 sources - 2 Hindu podhattis, the Adi Samaj Anusthan
> Paddati and the Navabidhan 'New Samhita', we find that such out and
> out commercial practices are only in the Navabidhan Samhita followed
> by one faction of Sadharan Samaj.
>
> Dutta's manual was roundly denounced in 1921 when it was first
> published and no sensible person would rely on it today except as an
> awkward anachronism.
>
> All right thinking Brahmos should be careful of these Dutta's in
> Brahmoism, ie Sitanath (Tattwabhushan) Dutta, Narendra (Vivekanand)
> Dutta etc and their descendants who have always been counted amongst
> the enemies of True Brahmoism for trying to commercialise Brahmoism
> into a Ramakrishna "Mission" model at every step.
>
> Rahul
>
> On 3/31/09, sroy1947 <sroy1947@... <sroy1947%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
> > "Peddling" ??? This raises an interesting issue - "Does Brahmoism permit
> > donations to be collected within Samaj premises?"
> >
> > "and that no sacrifice, offering or oblation of any kind or thing, shall
> > ever be permitted therein;"
> >
> > Sarbajit
> >
> > --- In brahmoconferenceorg@...<brahmoconferenceorg%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Rahul Dev Sharma
> > <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Brahmoism is a religious system, Brahmo Samajes are societies which
> >> peddle a diluted (universally palatable) version of True Brahmoism.
> >> What is peddled at Brahmo Samajes is more often than not unacceptable
> >> to Brahmos.
> >>
> >> I think you are confusing nationalism with patriotism.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, biswajit dutta
> >> <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:
> >> > It appears that you make an artificial distinction between Brahmo
> Samaj
> >> > &
> >> > Brahmoism . I am afraid your views may not resonate with the majority
> >> > for
> >> > whom :-
> >> > a)Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism are not at cross purposes .
> >> > b)The terms "universalism" & "nationalism" may not be mutually
> exclusive
> >> > .
> >> > That I have a tolerant/open/rational mind willing to imbibe global
> best
> >> > practices does not mean I am anti-national or less nationalistic . On
> >> > the
> >> > contrary , universalism can lead to improved nationalism .
> >> > c)By distillation of essence(accepting only what is suitable/relevant)
> >> > from
> >> > other religions Brahmoism has become a better religion . There is no
> >> > harm in
> >> > assimilating the good or the great from others .
> >> > d)Sivanath Sastri's interpretation of Brahmo history finds wide
> >> > acceptablity
> >> > with most Brahmos .
> >> > e)I don't know by what yardstick , Sadharan Samajis can be regarded to
> >> > be
> >> > the basest of Brahmos ? This appears to be too sweeping a statement .
> >> >
> >> > Biswajit Dutta
> >> >
> >> > --- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

--
Shymal Dutta Basu
(Dept of Sociology)
University of California at Merced

[bikash.roy02]

Mr. Basu:
The Brahmo community is a small one even if one includes, in addition to
practicing Brahmos, persons such as yourself who may have an interest in
Brahmoism because of family connections and not because I am myself a
practicing Brahmo. I was asked for similar information when I requested
admission to the group and I freely provided the requested information. No
one quizzed me or cross-questioned me about the information I provided. Any
online group has an interest in 'policing' its membership/audience and the
group's efforts in this connection were reasonable in my view. I have found
the debates of the group highly educational and enlightening and helped my
to put a lot of my family history in perspective even when I do not
necessarily agree with or care for the views expressed. I would urge you to
provide the information requested and to try out the group before deciding
to opt out. If you object to an information request, you might want to
indicate the nature of the objection and let the moderators handle the
matter. But I do think you will find the group of interest if you join.
That said, I would suggest to the group that the information request be
reframed in a manner that elicits the information sought while avoiding any
possibility of personal offense to anyone. I would phrase the information
request alone the following lines: 'please include detailed information
about your interest in Brahmoism including personal adherence, family
connections, academic interest or any other to facilite the moderator's
determination of your request.' Where the information provided is inadequate
or appears to be other than genuine, the moderators can then seek additional
information.
Bikash Roy



On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Shymal Dutta <shymal.dutta@...>wrote:

>
>
>  Dear Sir,
>
> My name is Shymal DUTTA Basu. I am not a practiceing Brahmo and had joined
> this group because my late grandmother was Brahmika before marriage and I
> want to learn about Brahmo Samaj..
>
> Please remove me from the group because I have now decided to go as far
> from Brahmo Samaj as I can. This is the only religion group
> where people are asked for complete family history and "identity proof" to
> join.
>
> *>>Dear Mr. Shyamal Dutta,*
> *>>Thanks a lot for showing interest to join this brahmoconference group.*
> *>>Since, this is a moderated group, we would like to have a small due
> diligence before we include you in this >>group. Could you pl. answer
> following questions?*
> *>>1) How did you come to know about the existence of this group?
> >>2) Do you know any existing member of this group? Or, any prominent
> Brahmo whom you know?
> >>3) Are you Brahmo by birth (does anyone of your parents is Brahmo?)?
> >>4) Could you give a little bit background about yourself?
> >>5) Could you pl. send me some proof of identity ?*
> *>>
> >>With best regards,
> >>Debanjan Ray*
>
> Shymal Dutta Basu
> (Dept of Sociology)
> University of California at Merced
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Rahul Dev Sharma <
> rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dear Sarbajit
>>
>> I was waiting for someone (other than I) to reply to your query.
>>
>> The Anusthanic Brahmo movement frowns upon seeking donations in the
>> name of our religion. We base this upon the 1830 Trust Deed text which
>> forbids "oblations" and offerings to be collected within.
>>
>> The Ananusthanics on the other hand are charlatans soliciting funds at
>> every stage. There can be no better example than this of "Pandit"
>> Sitanath Tattwabhushan who in 1880 was one of the 8 Brahmos of Sylhet
>> who issued the provlamation denouncing Keshab Sen and Navabidhan. (see
>> Sivnath Sastri's History of the Brahmo Samaj"). Tattwabhushan (whose
>> real name was Sitanath Dutta) then tried to insert a pseudo-Brahmanism
>> into the Sadharan Brahmo Samaj by publishing in 1921 his "Manual of
>> Brahmic prayer and devotions" which exhorts the Sadharan adherents at
>> every stage to "donate" to the Brahmo Samaj. Got married ? - donate,
>> Recovered from illness ? - donate, Setting up a new Samaj ? - donate.
>>
>> Although Tattwabhushan (Dutta) claimed to have compiled his devotional
>> manual from 4 sources - 2 Hindu podhattis, the Adi Samaj Anusthan
>> Paddati and the Navabidhan 'New Samhita', we find that such out and
>> out commercial practices are only in the Navabidhan Samhita followed
>> by one faction of Sadharan Samaj.
>>
>> Dutta's manual was roundly denounced in 1921 when it was first
>> published and no sensible person would rely on it today except as an
>> awkward anachronism.
>>
>> All right thinking Brahmos should be careful of these Dutta's in
>> Brahmoism, ie Sitanath (Tattwabhushan) Dutta, Narendra (Vivekanand)
>> Dutta etc and their descendants who have always been counted amongst
>> the enemies of True Brahmoism for trying to commercialise Brahmoism
>> into a Ramakrishna "Mission" model at every step.
>>
>> Rahul
>>
>> On 3/31/09, sroy1947 <sroy1947@... <sroy1947%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
>> > "Peddling" ??? This raises an interesting issue - "Does Brahmoism permit
>> > donations to be collected within Samaj premises?"
>> >
>> > "and that no sacrifice, offering or oblation of any kind or thing, shall
>> > ever be permitted therein;"
>> >
>> > Sarbajit
>> >
>> > --- In brahmoconferenceorg@...<brahmoconferenceorg%40yahoogroups.com>,
>> Rahul Dev Sharma
>> > <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Brahmoism is a religious system, Brahmo Samajes are societies which
>> >> peddle a diluted (universally palatable) version of True Brahmoism.
>> >> What is peddled at Brahmo Samajes is more often than not unacceptable
>> >> to Brahmos.
>> >>
>> >> I think you are confusing nationalism with patriotism.
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, biswajit dutta
>> >> <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:
>> >> > It appears that you make an artificial distinction between Brahmo
>> Samaj
>> >> > &
>> >> > Brahmoism . I am afraid your views may not resonate with the majority
>> >> > for
>> >> > whom :-
>> >> > a)Brahmo Samaj & Brahmoism are not at cross purposes .
>> >> > b)The terms "universalism" & "nationalism" may not be mutually
>> exclusive
>> >> > .
>> >> > That I have a tolerant/open/rational mind willing to imbibe global
>> best
>> >> > practices does not mean I am anti-national or less nationalistic . On
>> >> > the
>> >> > contrary , universalism can lead to improved nationalism .
>> >> > c)By distillation of essence(accepting only what is
>> suitable/relevant)
>> >> > from
>> >> > other religions Brahmoism has become a better religion . There is no
>> >> > harm in
>> >> > assimilating the good or the great from others .
>> >> > d)Sivanath Sastri's interpretation of Brahmo history finds wide
>> >> > acceptablity
>> >> > with most Brahmos .
>> >> > e)I don't know by what yardstick , Sadharan Samajis can be regarded
>> to
>> >> > be
>> >> > the basest of Brahmos ? This appears to be too sweeping a statement .
>> >> >
>> >> > Biswajit Dutta
>> >> >
>> >> > --- On Sat, 14/3/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Shymal Dutta Basu
> (Dept of Sociology)
> University of California at Merced
>
>
>

--
Bikash Roy, JD (UC Davis), PhD (Rutgers GSNB)
Attorney licensed in North Carolina, New York, New Jersey
610 Walcott Way, Cary, NC 27519
Cell # 919 215 8626
Landline # 919 650 3651