XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Yves Raimond
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Hello!
I began to write such an xslt transform, available at http://motools.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/motools/xspf/, although there is still a significant amount of work to be done on that. I would be really happy if you could help me fix that xslt (i am not an xsl guru at all :-) ) Cheers! y On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Daniel O'Connor <daniel.oconnor@...> wrote: > Hey all, > I'm sure you've seen http://libby.asemantics.com/2005/01/XSPF/ ; and a long > time ago there was some very early thoughts about an XSPF / RDF mapping that > never really went anywhere. > > Well, it's now 2008 and worth mentioning GRDDL. > > GRDDL can be used to tell smart user agents how to turn a specific XML > format into RDF/XML. > > > How it works: > All you do is host a very small RDF document and an XSL transformation (see > Libby's link) at http://xspf.org/ns/0/ > > Basically: > > <rdf:RDF > xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" > xmlns:dataview="http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view#"> > > > <rdf:Description rdf:about="http://xspf.org/ns/0/"> > <dataview:namespaceTransformation > rdf:resource="http://xspf.org/ns/0/xspf_to_rdf.xsl"/> > > > </rdf:Description> > </rdf:RDF> > > > More technical stuff: http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/#ns-bind > > ... and then anything which knows how to read GRDDL can know how to > transform an XSPF playlist into RDF, including everything that has already > been published on the web. > > What are the chances of this kind of change happening? I'm quite happy to > lend a hand and fix up any xsl that is needed... > > > > -- > Looking for a new php job? See what you can do with > https://vx.valex.com.au/tests/season/ > > _______________________________________________ > Playlist mailing list > Playlist@... > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist > _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Daniel O'Connor
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Bring on the test cases!
I'll probably have a decent go at this over the weekend, and we'll see what can be done :) Yves, I'll chat to you via jabber (I presume your gmail account) off-list? I began to write such an xslt transform, available at _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Lucas Gonze
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Can we do this without having to affirm that the RDF is canonical and
correct? That is a can of worms. If we build it, will they come? In practice are there user agents which will know to auto-fetch the namespace document, find the XSL URI in the document, grab it, run it, and present the result to the user? If we build it and they don't come, are we agreed that we can reuse that URI for some other document type in the future? On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Daniel O'Connor <daniel.oconnor@...> wrote: > Bring on the test cases! > I'll probably have a decent go at this over the weekend, and we'll see what > can be done :) > > Yves, I'll chat to you via jabber (I presume your gmail account) off-list? > > > >> I began to write such an xslt transform, available at >> http://motools.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/motools/xspf/, although >> there is still a significant amount of work to be done on that. >> I would be really happy if you could help me fix that xslt (i am not >> an xsl guru at all :-) ) > > > _______________________________________________ > Playlist mailing list > Playlist@... > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist > _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Danny Ayers
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2008/10/9 Lucas Gonze <lucas.gonze@...>
Can we do this without having to affirm that the RDF is canonical and Yes. All that is needed is a link from the namespace to the XSLT. No other assumptions. That is a can of worms. Dunno - but it's low-cost, nothing to lose. In practice are there user agents Oh, you read the GRDDL docs. Spot on.
Yes - but hopefully you'll follow good practice on URIs, the resource is the same as identified already, whatever the representation. Worse case you've got a redundant link. Danny. _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Daniel O'Connor
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At the moment there are a fair few GRDDL implementations (http://esw.w3.org/topic/GrddlImplementations); mostly built into existing RDF eating tools, all of which would just learn how to eat xspf too. Music players themselves? Probably less of a use case there for them. If we build it and they don't come, are we agreed that we can reuse Absolutely: handily, you don't have to just serve up that fragment of RDF and that's all you get - you could host an XSD there with the RDF woven in, or use (client side) XSLT to present the user with a shiny XHTML + RDF page with documentation / links / other useful bits and pieces. _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Lucas Gonze
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On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Daniel O'Connor
<daniel.oconnor@...> wrote: > Bring on the test cases! > I'll probably have a decent go at this over the weekend, and we'll see what > can be done :) Not sure if you know about these already: http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/xspf/testcase/ _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Lucas Gonze
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On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Daniel O'Connor
<daniel.oconnor@...> wrote: > At the moment there are a fair few GRDDL implementations > (http://esw.w3.org/topic/GrddlImplementations); mostly built into existing > RDF eating tools, all of which would just learn how to eat xspf too. > > Music players themselves? Probably less of a use case there for them. I could see a setup where the XSPF is driving one of many players and the RDF is driving a browse experience. > Absolutely: handily, you don't have to just serve up that fragment of RDF > and that's all you get - you could host an XSD there with the RDF woven in, > or use (client side) XSLT to present the user with a shiny XHTML + RDF page > with documentation / links / other useful bits and pieces. Anybody know of client side XSLT for that GRDDL RDF? That would make the complexity of content negotiation go away. _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Daniel O'Connor
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Option 1: Just stick XHTML into the document, like http://www.w3.org/2003/12/rdf-in-xhtml-xslts/grokFOAF.xsl It's an XSL document, but it uses the XHTML namespace. Firefox intelligently picks up the HTML, other user agents ignore. Option 2: Just like http://www.w3schools.com/XML/xml_xsl.asp The RDF/XML document contains an <?xml-stylesheet ?>, which renders out a simple XHTML page for humans to Go Elsewhere for documentation. _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Danny Ayers
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What Daniel said.
The GRDDL docs are hard work (mea maxima culpa), but I did a cheatsheet: http://dannyayers.com/misc/grddl-reference Fortunately GRDDL is a lot easier than trying to get an OpenOffice doc into clean HTML :-) Seriously, little effort is needed. View source on this: http://www.metalinker.org/ The couple of links in the <head> are enough to make every document using that XML namespace to have a transparent RDF interpretation (the XSLT is no doubt a bit rubbish - one of mine ;-) Cheers, Danny. -- http://dannyayers.com ~ http://blogs.talis.com/nodalities/this_weeks_semantic_web/ _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Lucas Gonze-3
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If there exist tools which will actually use these new files (the GRDDL
and XSLT), let's target them. What are they? What do they support? What do they need? Daniel O'Connor wrote: > Option 1: > Just stick XHTML into the document, like > http://www.w3.org/2003/12/rdf-in-xhtml-xslts/grokFOAF.xsl > > It's an XSL document, but it uses the XHTML namespace. Firefox > intelligently picks up the HTML, other user agents ignore. > > > Option 2: > Just like http://www.w3schools.com/XML/xml_xsl.asp > > The RDF/XML document contains an <?xml-stylesheet ?>, which renders out > a simple XHTML page for humans to Go Elsewhere for documentation. > _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Danny Ayers
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Lucas, cc'ing to semantic-web@...
Someone there can tell you better than I about tools (I hope). For their benefit, Lucas is talking about XSPF, an XML lingua for talking about music stuff. The latest incarnation of musicbrainz things. 2008/10/10 Lucas Gonze <lucas@...> If there exist tools which will actually use these new files (the GRDDL Somebody please bite. Cheers, Danny. _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Danny Ayers
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Sorry if I sound blaze', but got a terrible memory.
Talking in real time can save a lot of wasted time. I recommend everyone around here fires up their favourite IRC client on: irc.freenode,net specifically #swig (semweb), #talis (semweb again, but it's the folks I work with) and #swhack (lunatics, but a bit clever with it) Cheers, Danny. -- http://dannyayers.com ~ http://blogs.talis.com/nodalities/this_weeks_semantic_web/ _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Yves Raimond
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> If there exist tools which will actually use these new files (the GRDDL
> and XSLT), let's target them. What are they? What do they support? > What do they need? I guess most RDF parsers support GRDDL now (e.g. Jena or Redland). There's also a couple of web services for doing that, e.g. Dave Beckett's awesome http://triplr.org . All applications sitting on top of that would then be happy to ingest and store XSPF without any further ado. Cheers! y > > Daniel O'Connor wrote: >> Option 1: >> Just stick XHTML into the document, like >> http://www.w3.org/2003/12/rdf-in-xhtml-xslts/grokFOAF.xsl >> >> It's an XSL document, but it uses the XHTML namespace. Firefox >> intelligently picks up the HTML, other user agents ignore. >> >> >> Option 2: >> Just like http://www.w3schools.com/XML/xml_xsl.asp >> >> The RDF/XML document contains an <?xml-stylesheet ?>, which renders out >> a simple XHTML page for humans to Go Elsewhere for documentation. >> > > _______________________________________________ > Playlist mailing list > Playlist@... > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist > _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Lucas Gonze-3
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How do these tools interact with the namespace document, Yves? Do they
just fetch whatever's in the XML namespace URI in hopes that it returns a GRDDL document? And what are the nearest applications and users (even if comp sci people)? Yves Raimond wrote: >> If there exist tools which will actually use these new files (the GRDDL >> and XSLT), let's target them. What are they? What do they support? >> What do they need? > > I guess most RDF parsers support GRDDL now (e.g. Jena or Redland). > There's also a couple of web services for doing that, e.g. Dave > Beckett's awesome http://triplr.org . > All applications sitting on top of that would then be happy to ingest > and store XSPF without any further ado. > > Cheers! > y > >> Daniel O'Connor wrote: >>> Option 1: >>> Just stick XHTML into the document, like >>> http://www.w3.org/2003/12/rdf-in-xhtml-xslts/grokFOAF.xsl >>> >>> It's an XSL document, but it uses the XHTML namespace. Firefox >>> intelligently picks up the HTML, other user agents ignore. >>> >>> >>> Option 2: >>> Just like http://www.w3schools.com/XML/xml_xsl.asp >>> >>> The RDF/XML document contains an <?xml-stylesheet ?>, which renders out >>> a simple XHTML page for humans to Go Elsewhere for documentation. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Playlist mailing list >> Playlist@... >> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist >> > > _______________________________________________ > Playlist mailing list > Playlist@... > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist > > _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Yves Raimond
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> How do these tools interact with the namespace document, Yves? Do they
> just fetch whatever's in the XML namespace URI in hopes that it returns > a GRDDL document? Whenever there is a grddl:transformation="http://example.org/xspf.xsl" available in the XML, it will get that XSL, and apply it to the XML, expecting some RDF/XML to be outputted. > > And what are the nearest applications and users (even if comp sci people)? > RDF browser, e.g. tabulator, Semantic Web clients, e.g the semantic web client library, RDF stores/aggregators, e.g. the one I used in http://blog.dbtune.org/post/2008/07/31/Semantic-search-on-aggregated-music-data Hope that helps - I am not sure what specific use-cases Daniel had in mind though. Cheers y > > Yves Raimond wrote: >>> If there exist tools which will actually use these new files (the GRDDL >>> and XSLT), let's target them. What are they? What do they support? >>> What do they need? >> >> I guess most RDF parsers support GRDDL now (e.g. Jena or Redland). >> There's also a couple of web services for doing that, e.g. Dave >> Beckett's awesome http://triplr.org . >> All applications sitting on top of that would then be happy to ingest >> and store XSPF without any further ado. >> >> Cheers! >> y >> >>> Daniel O'Connor wrote: >>>> Option 1: >>>> Just stick XHTML into the document, like >>>> http://www.w3.org/2003/12/rdf-in-xhtml-xslts/grokFOAF.xsl >>>> >>>> It's an XSL document, but it uses the XHTML namespace. Firefox >>>> intelligently picks up the HTML, other user agents ignore. >>>> >>>> >>>> Option 2: >>>> Just like http://www.w3schools.com/XML/xml_xsl.asp >>>> >>>> The RDF/XML document contains an <?xml-stylesheet ?>, which renders out >>>> a simple XHTML page for humans to Go Elsewhere for documentation. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Playlist mailing list >>> Playlist@... >>> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Playlist mailing list >> Playlist@... >> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Playlist mailing list > Playlist@... > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist > _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Daniel O'Connor
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Alrighty:
http://motools.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/motools/xspf/ 1) I've built a bit on Yves' existing XSL, and its reasonably complete in what it can map. You can grab a copy with svn co https://motools.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/motools/xspf and test it with xsltproc XSPF.xsl <your-document-here> IE: ~/motools/xspf$ xsltproc XSPF.xsl data/XSPFtest.xml 2) I created a RDF document which is suitable to live at http://xspf.org/ns/0/ ; along with XSPF.xsl I also created about.xsl, which renders out a disambiguation page for Humans; and its linked to the RDF document. It's quick, and nasty, but you don't have to deal with content negotiation. So; if those files started living at http://xspf.org/ns/0/ ; the way to test it would be to check http://triplr.org/rdf/www.preachtheword.com/playlist.xspf ... produces RDF _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Lucas Gonze
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Awesome.
Have you checked against the testcases at http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/xspf/testcase/ , Daniel? On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 10:17 PM, Daniel O'Connor <daniel.oconnor@...> wrote: > Alrighty: > http://motools.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/motools/xspf/ > > 1) I've built a bit on Yves' existing XSL, and its reasonably complete in > what it can map. > You can grab a copy with > svn co https://motools.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/motools/xspf > > and test it with > xsltproc XSPF.xsl <your-document-here> > > IE: > ~/motools/xspf$ xsltproc XSPF.xsl data/XSPFtest.xml > > > > > 2) I created a RDF document which is suitable to live at > http://xspf.org/ns/0/ ; along with XSPF.xsl > I also created about.xsl, which renders out a disambiguation page for > Humans; and its linked to the RDF document. > It's quick, and nasty, but you don't have to deal with content negotiation. > > > > So; if those files started living at http://xspf.org/ns/0/ ; the way to test > it would be to check > > http://triplr.org/rdf/www.preachtheword.com/playlist.xspf > > ... produces RDF > > _______________________________________________ > Playlist mailing list > Playlist@... > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist > _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Daniel O'Connor
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Sure have
The testcases are even linked as an svn external :) The main one I've used for testing: http://motools.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/motools/xspf/data/XSPFtest.xml?view=markup which is a mix of playlist-detail and track-detail On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Lucas Gonze <lucas.gonze@...> wrote: Awesome. _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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Re: XSPF -> RDF - using GRDDL
by Yves Raimond
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> Sure have
> The testcases are even linked as an svn external :) > > The main one I've used for testing: > http://motools.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/motools/xspf/data/XSPFtest.xml?view=markup > > which is a mix of playlist-detail and track-detail This is great Daniel :-) I'll take a deeper look at the outputted RDF later today. Cheers, and many many thanks! y > > On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Lucas Gonze <lucas.gonze@...> wrote: >> >> Awesome. >> >> Have you checked against the testcases at >> http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/xspf/testcase/ , Daniel? > > > _______________________________________________ > Playlist mailing list > Playlist@... > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist > _______________________________________________ Playlist mailing list Playlist@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/playlist |
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