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adding reification ids

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	adding reification ids by publicayers :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message I need to associate a triple with its reification id, then make triples on that id (for things like creator and created). The only way I can figure out to do this in RDFa is to make the triple in the usual way (with about/rel/resource), but also assert the reification triples on the subject, predicate, and object. I was planning on putting the reification triples in the head. It seems unfortunate to add 3 triples and their elements in the head for each triple in the body just to represent the mapping from reification id to a triple's subject, predicate, and object. The only other option I can come up with is to extend RDFa with a new attribute to give the reification id and have it expand into the 3 triples, something like <meta about="s" rel="p" resource="o" reification="id" /> Since there isn't any special handling for reification in RDFa, I was wondering if it was discussed and rejected, and if so, what were the problems. Also, is there any inclination to expand RDFa sometime in the future for convenient handling of reification? Brian
	Re: adding reification ids by Simon Reinhardt :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message publicayers@... wrote: > I need to associate a triple with its reification id, then make triples > on that id (for things like creator and created). The only way I can > figure out to do this in RDFa is to make the triple in the usual way > (with about/rel/resource), but also assert the reification triples on > the subject, predicate, and object. I was planning on putting the > reification triples in the head. > > It seems unfortunate to add 3 triples and their elements in the head for > each triple in the body just to represent the mapping from reification > id to a triple's subject, predicate, and object. The only other option I > can come up with is to extend RDFa with a new attribute to give the > reification id and have it expand into the 3 triples, something like > > <meta about="s" rel="p" resource="o" reification="id" /> > > Since there isn't any special handling for reification in RDFa, I was > wondering if it was discussed and rejected, and if so, what were the > problems. Also, is there any inclination to expand RDFa sometime in the > future for convenient handling of reification? > > Brian Hi Brian, You might want to take a look at http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/rdfa4/spec - it doesn't use reification but named graphs instead which I'd prefer anyway. Regards, Simon
	Re: adding reification ids by Mark Birbeck-4 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Hi Bryan, Earlier drafts of RDFa did originally support reification by the use of embedded <meta> and <link> elements in the <body>. However, since Firefox moves those elements back into the <head> (at least at the time, it did -- I haven't checked recently), it made it impossible to implement a client-side RDFa parser that would work in all browsers. We therefore decided not to include this technique in later RDFa drafts, and since at the time there wasn't another proposal on the table, there is no support for reification in RDFa. Regards, Mark On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 5:28 PM, <publicayers@...> wrote: > I need to associate a triple with its reification id, then make triples on > that id (for things like creator and created). The only way I can figure out > to do this in RDFa is to make the triple in the usual way (with > about/rel/resource), but also assert the reification triples on the subject, > predicate, and object. I was planning on putting the reification triples in > the head. > > It seems unfortunate to add 3 triples and their elements in the head for > each triple in the body just to represent the mapping from reification id to > a triple's subject, predicate, and object. The only other option I can come > up with is to extend RDFa with a new attribute to give the reification id > and have it expand into the 3 triples, something like > > <meta about="s" rel="p" resource="o" reification="id" /> > > Since there isn't any special handling for reification in RDFa, I was > wondering if it was discussed and rejected, and if so, what were the > problems. Also, is there any inclination to expand RDFa sometime in the > future for convenient handling of reification? > > Brian -- Mark Birbeck, webBackplane mark.birbeck@... http://webBackplane.com/mark-birbeck webBackplane is a trading name of Backplane Ltd. (company number 05972288, registered office: 2nd Floor, 69/85 Tabernacle Street, London, EC2A 4RR)
	Re: Re: adding reification ids by publicayers :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Do you see any issue with adding a new attribute (eg reification) that provides the reification id to associate with a triple generated by that element? That way I could put a single meta element in the head and then have that reification available for creating other triples. For example, <meta about="[p:r1]" rel="p:p1" resource="[p:r2]" reification="p:id3"/> <meta about="[p:id3]" rel="dc:creator" resource="[p:me]" /> If this is reasonable, is there a process for making a proposal for a future enhancement? My group is making extensive use of XHTML+RDFa, and pretty much every triple has these kinds of accounting triples. It would be nice to have some reasonably consise way of tying them together with the triple pattern itself. Brian On Jul 9, 2009, Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@...> wrote: Hi Bryan, Earlier drafts of RDFa did originally support reification by the use of embedded <meta> and <link> elements in the <body>. However, since Firefox moves those elements back into the <head> (at least at the time, it did -- I haven't checked recently), it made it impossible to implement a client-side RDFa parser that would work in all browsers. We therefore decided not to include this technique in later RDFa drafts, and since at the time there wasn't another proposal on the table, there is no support for reification in RDFa. Regards, Mark On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 5:28 PM, <publicayers@...> wrote: > I need to associate a triple with its reification id, then make triples on > that id (for things like creator and created). The only way I can figure out > to do this in RDFa is to make the triple in the usual way (with > about/rel/resource), but also assert the reification triples on the subject, > predicate, and object. I was planning on putting the reification triples in > the head. > > It seems unfortunate to add 3 triples and their elements in the head for > each triple in the body just to represent the mapping from reification id to > a triple's subject, predicate, and object. The only other option I can come > up with is to extend RDFa with a new attribute to give the reification id > and have it expand into the 3 triples, something like > > <meta about="s" rel="p" resource="o" reification="id" /> > > Since there isn't any special handling for reification in RDFa, I was > wondering if it was discussed and rejected, and if so, what were the > problems. Also, is there any inclination to expand RDFa sometime in the > future for convenient handling of reification? > > Brian -- Mark Birbeck, webBackplane mark.birbeck@... http://webBackplane.com/mark-birbeck webBackplane is a trading name of Backplane Ltd. (company number 05972288, registered office: 2nd Floor, 69/85 Tabernacle Street, London, EC2A 4RR)
	Re: adding reification ids by Dan Brickley-2 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On 9/7/09 18:28, publicayers@... wrote: > I need to associate a triple with its reification id, then make triples > on that id (for things like creator and created). The only way I can > figure out to do this in RDFa is to make the triple in the usual way > (with about/rel/resource), but also assert the reification triples on > the subject, predicate, and object. I was planning on putting the > reification triples in the head. RDF's subject/predicate/object reification mechanism is pretty awkward to use. If you can find a way to associate creator/date/etc another way, I recommend doing so. How about providing them as metadata about the document that carries the RDF? > It seems unfortunate to add 3 triples and their elements in the head for > each triple in the body just to represent the mapping from reification > id to a triple's subject, predicate, and object. The only other option I > can come up with is to extend RDFa with a new attribute to give the > reification id and have it expand into the 3 triples, something like > > <meta about="s" rel="p" resource="o" reification="id" /> > > Since there isn't any special handling for reification in RDFa, I was > wondering if it was discussed and rejected, and if so, what were the > problems. Also, is there any inclination to expand RDFa sometime in the > future for convenient handling of reification? I wouldn't encourage this. Instead, I'd rather see work on documenting deployment patterns that use named graphs, and integration with SPARQL's named graph mechanism. cheers, Dan
	Re: adding reification ids by publicayers :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message There aren't documents with the triples in them. They're being asserted individually. I agree that RDF's reification mechanism is awkward, but it is part of the spec. It would be nice to have some aspect of RDFa that address that part of RDF other than the brute-force enumeration of each of the reification triples. If named graphs were part of RDF, I'd be happy to use them instead. But we're trying to stay within RDF and RDFa. Brian On Jul 9, 2009, Dan Brickley <danbri@...> wrote: On 9/7/09 18:28, publicayers@... wrote: > I need to associate a triple with its reification id, then make triples > on that id (for things like creator and created). The only way I can > figure out to do this in RDFa is to make the triple in the usual way > (with about/rel/resource), but also assert the reification triples on > the subject, predicate, and object. I was planning on putting the > reification triples in the head. RDF's subject/predicate/object reification mechanism is pretty awkward to use. If you can find a way to associate creator/date/etc another way, I recommend doing so. How about providing them as metadata about the document that carries the RDF? > It seems unfortunate to add 3 triples and their elements in the head for > each triple in the body just to represent the mapping from reification > id to a triple's subject, predicate, and object. The only other option I > can come up with is to extend RDFa with a new attribute to give the > reification id and have it expand into the 3 triples, something like > > <meta about="s" rel="p" resource="o" reification="id" /> > > Since there isn't any special handling for reification in RDFa, I was > wondering if it was discussed and rejected, and if so, what were the > problems. Also, is there any inclination to expand RDFa sometime in the > future for convenient handling of reification? I wouldn't encourage this. Instead, I'd rather see work on documenting deployment patterns that use named graphs, and integration with SPARQL's named graph mechanism. cheers, Dan