alternative in starting a scooter with CVT

[ariel-37]

hi guys...

we built a drag bike out of a 110cc scooter with CVT tranny. we bored and stroked it to its gut and now the compression is quite high enough, the problem now is how to start the "beast". the kick start lever is not an option (mechanism directly coupled to crankshaft & no reduction what so ever). other guys here replaces the stock electric start with so called "racing starter" I suppose its a high torque kind.

I was hoping to get rid of the starter all together to save weight and my thoughts on how to start the bike is to use a bigger starter like those of Honda 360's and Honda VT250's since I have a couple of those lying around. I also have automotive types of starters. what I'm thinking of now is converting one of those into portable type of starter just like the once used on some of PRO drag racers and circuit junkies. But i'm quite hesitant of breaking an arm or at least some fingers if I'd go for the "totally portable/handy" route that's lingering on my mind....

any thoughts????

[Danny Whitfield]

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:09 AM, ariel <satanael21@...> wrote:

>
>
> hi guys...
>
> we built a drag bike out of a 110cc scooter with CVT tranny. we bored and
> stroked it to its gut and now the compression is quite high enough, the
> problem now is how to start the "beast". the kick start lever is not an
> option (mechanism directly coupled to crankshaft & no reduction what so
> ever). other guys here replaces the stock electric start with so called
> "racing starter" I suppose its a high torque kind.
>
> I was hoping to get rid of the starter all together to save weight and my
> thoughts on how to start the bike is to use a bigger starter like those of
> Honda 360's and Honda VT250's since I have a couple of those lying around. I
> also have automotive types of starters. what I'm thinking of now is
> converting one of those into portable type of starter just like the once
> used on some of PRO drag racers and circuit junkies. But i'm quite hesitant
> of breaking an arm or at least some fingers if I'd go for the "totally
> portable/handy" route that's lingering on my mind....
>
> any thoughts????
>

Yes, what compression gauge reading are you getting?

It is possible to over do it and gain power by reducing comp.

Is this a 4stroke or 2stroke?

Dan Whitfield

>
>  
>

[john fisher-4]

big cordless drill?

ariel wrote:

> any thoughts????
>
>

[Jim Schneider-4]

HA!HA!  I think I have seen it done!  But how about a compression
release.  Maybe like one of the Harley pull-pin types?
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120395511
706&viewitem=&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching>
&item=120395511706&viewitem=&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching
 
Swiss
 
-----Original Message-----
From: mc-engine@... [mailto:mc-engine@...] On
Behalf Of john fisher
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:07 AM
To: mc-engine@...
Subject: Re: alternative in starting a scooter with CVT


 

big cordless drill?

ariel wrote:

> any thoughts????
>
>

[john fisher-4]

a friend starts his RS125 this way, so I can't take credit.

Jim Schneider wrote:
> HA!HA!  I think I have seen it done!

[Julian Bond]

ariel <satanael21@...> Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:09:34
>But i'm quite hesitant of breaking an arm or at least some fingers if
>I'd go for the "totally portable/handy" route that's lingering on my
>mind....

Ah. Found it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s-nrtiqoiA

Felix (who's on this list) built one.

--
Julian Bond  E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com  M: [phone]
Webmaster:          http://www.ecademy.com/      T: [phone]
Personal WebLog:    http://www.voidstar.com/     skype:julian.bond?chat
                      Next Shopping Mall 75 Miles

[ariel-37]

hi Dan,

its a 4 stroke scooter. I haven't checked the compression pressure just yet. maybe i'll try using the kickstart later to check what pressure i'm at. thanks for the heads up!


ariel

--- In mc-engine@..., Danny Whitfield <eco.usa@...> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:09 AM, ariel <satanael21@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > hi guys...
> >
> > we built a drag bike out of a 110cc scooter with CVT tranny. we bored and
> > stroked it to its gut and now the compression is quite high enough, the
> > problem now is how to start the "beast". the kick start lever is not an
> > option (mechanism directly coupled to crankshaft & no reduction what so
> > ever). other guys here replaces the stock electric start with so called
> > "racing starter" I suppose its a high torque kind.
> >
> > I was hoping to get rid of the starter all together to save weight and my
> > thoughts on how to start the bike is to use a bigger starter like those of
> > Honda 360's and Honda VT250's since I have a couple of those lying around. I
> > also have automotive types of starters. what I'm thinking of now is
> > converting one of those into portable type of starter just like the once
> > used on some of PRO drag racers and circuit junkies. But i'm quite hesitant
> > of breaking an arm or at least some fingers if I'd go for the "totally
> > portable/handy" route that's lingering on my mind....
> >
> > any thoughts????
> >
> Yes, what compression gauge reading are you getting?
>
> It is possible to over do it and gain power by reducing comp.
>
> Is this a 4stroke or 2stroke?
>
> Dan Whitfield
>
> >
> >  
> >
>

[ariel-37]

that's what exactly i'm talking about...however this route is still possible if some kind of a fixture or stand is holding the external starter in place

--- In mc-engine@..., Julian Bond <julian_bond@...> wrote:

>
> ariel <satanael21@...> Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:09:34
> >But i'm quite hesitant of breaking an arm or at least some fingers if
> >I'd go for the "totally portable/handy" route that's lingering on my
> >mind....
>
> Ah. Found it.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s-nrtiqoiA
>
> Felix (who's on this list) built one.
>
> --
> Julian Bond  E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com  M: [phone]
> Webmaster:          http://www.ecademy.com/      T: [phone]
> Personal WebLog:    http://www.voidstar.com/     skype:julian.bond?chat
>                       Next Shopping Mall 75 Miles
>

[The Hirzel Office]

 

Yep, that's me. I admit the first time I used it, it was with some
trepidation. I prepared as well as I could, bracing my arms against my bent
legs, ready to jump out of harm's way. I was completely shocked when
virtually nothing happened, except the bike started up instantly. It a
complete non-event. Now, that I am used to it, it's second nature and I have
never had any "moments" with it. I'll happily supply better pictures of it.
It's not a difficult thing to build. I just used all the original gears and
starter, and replicated how it was on the bike.

 

ariel <satanael21@... <mailto:satanael21%40yahoo.com> > Tue, 10 Nov
2009 14:09:34
>But i'm quite hesitant of breaking an arm or at least some fingers if
>I'd go for the "totally portable/handy" route that's lingering on my
>mind....

Ah. Found it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s-nrtiqoiA

Felix (who's on this list) built one.

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: [phone]
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: [phone]
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Next Shopping Mall 75 Miles

[ariel-37]

yup the video seems uneventful..is it a 2 stroke engine? mine is a 4 stroke scooter with lots of compression, and the stock starter can't turn over the thing even using fully charged automotive batteries. But I'm not surprised of it, having a CR of 8.2:1 in its stock form, Yamaha just probably popped in their smallish starters they could grab on.

while we're at it, what would probably happen if I connected in series 2 automotive batteries and try starting the scoot with the higher voltage? would the stock starter just "pffft" in a blink like 110 VCR's plugged on to 220 outlets or would it probably turn over and eventually disintegrate? hehehe

--- In mc-engine@..., "The Hirzel Office" <office@...> wrote:

>
>  
>
> Yep, that's me. I admit the first time I used it, it was with some
> trepidation. I prepared as well as I could, bracing my arms against my bent
> legs, ready to jump out of harm's way. I was completely shocked when
> virtually nothing happened, except the bike started up instantly. It a
> complete non-event. Now, that I am used to it, it's second nature and I have
> never had any "moments" with it. I'll happily supply better pictures of it.
> It's not a difficult thing to build. I just used all the original gears and
> starter, and replicated how it was on the bike.
>
>  
>
> ariel <satanael21@... <mailto:satanael21%40yahoo.com> > Tue, 10 Nov
> 2009 14:09:34
> >But i'm quite hesitant of breaking an arm or at least some fingers if
> >I'd go for the "totally portable/handy" route that's lingering on my
> >mind....
>
> Ah. Found it.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s-nrtiqoiA
>
> Felix (who's on this list) built one.
>
> --
> Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: [phone]
> Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: [phone]
> Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
> Next Shopping Mall 75 Miles
>

[The Hirzel Office]

It's a four stroke parallel twin, 650 cc. And it has about 13.5:1
compression. The stock starter has no problems turning it over, although it
does use up the battery quite quickly. Powering a starter motor with 24V is
not something I would like to try. It will work for a short time only, I
suspect.

 

 

yup the video seems uneventful..is it a 2 stroke engine? mine is a 4 stroke
scooter with lots of compression, and the stock starter can't turn over the
thing even using fully charged automotive batteries. But I'm not surprised
of it, having a CR of 8.2:1 in its stock form, Yamaha just probably popped
in their smallish starters they could grab on.

while we're at it, what would probably happen if I connected in series 2
automotive batteries and try starting the scoot with the higher voltage?
would the stock starter just "pffft" in a blink like 110 VCR's plugged on to
220 outlets or would it probably turn over and eventually disintegrate?
hehehe

--- In mc-engine@... <mailto:mc-engine%40yahoogroups.com> , "The
Hirzel Office" <office@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Yep, that's me. I admit the first time I used it, it was with some
> trepidation. I prepared as well as I could, bracing my arms against my
bent
> legs, ready to jump out of harm's way. I was completely shocked when
> virtually nothing happened, except the bike started up instantly. It a
> complete non-event. Now, that I am used to it, it's second nature and I
have
> never had any "moments" with it. I'll happily supply better pictures of
it.
> It's not a difficult thing to build. I just used all the original gears
and

> starter, and replicated how it was on the bike.
>
>
>
> ariel <satanael21@... <mailto:satanael21%40yahoo.com> > Tue, 10 Nov
> 2009 14:09:34
> >But i'm quite hesitant of breaking an arm or at least some fingers if
> >I'd go for the "totally portable/handy" route that's lingering on my
> >mind....
>
> Ah. Found it.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s-nrtiqoiA
>
> Felix (who's on this list) built one.
>
> --
> Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: [phone]
> Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: [phone]
> Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
> Next Shopping Mall 75 Miles
>

[Charles Finney*]

Will the kickstart turn the unit over with the plug removed?  If not, a
remote starter will likely be an eye opener.

Charlie in Iowa

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 5:40 PM, The Hirzel Office <office@...>wrote:

>
>
>   It’s a four stroke parallel twin, 650 cc. And it has about 13.5:1
> compression. The stock starter has no problems turning it over, although it
> does use up the battery quite quickly. Powering a starter motor with 24V is
> not something I would like to try. It will work for a short time only, I
> suspect.
>
>
>
>
>
> yup the video seems uneventful..is it a 2 stroke engine? mine is a 4 stroke
> scooter with lots of compression, and the stock starter can't turn over the
> thing even using fully charged automotive batteries. But I'm not surprised
> of it, having a CR of 8.2:1 in its stock form, Yamaha just probably popped
> in their smallish starters they could grab on.
>
> while we're at it, what would probably happen if I connected in series 2
> automotive batteries and try starting the scoot with the higher voltage?
> would the stock starter just "pffft" in a blink like 110 VCR's plugged on to
> 220 outlets or would it probably turn over and eventually disintegrate?
> hehehe
>
> --- In mc-engine@... <mc-engine%40yahoogroups.com>, "The
> Hirzel Office" <office@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Yep, that's me. I admit the first time I used it, it was with some
> > trepidation. I prepared as well as I could, bracing my arms against my
> bent
> > legs, ready to jump out of harm's way. I was completely shocked when
> > virtually nothing happened, except the bike started up instantly. It a
> > complete non-event. Now, that I am used to it, it's second nature and I
> have
> > never had any "moments" with it. I'll happily supply better pictures of
> it.
> > It's not a difficult thing to build. I just used all the original gears
> and
> > starter, and replicated how it was on the bike.
> >
> >
> >
> > ariel <satanael21@... <mailto:satanael21%40yahoo.com<satanael21%2540yahoo.com>>
> > Tue, 10 Nov
> > 2009 14:09:34
> > >But i'm quite hesitant of breaking an arm or at least some fingers if
> > >I'd go for the "totally portable/handy" route that's lingering on my
> > >mind....
> >
> > Ah. Found it.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s-nrtiqoiA
> >
> > Felix (who's on this list) built one.
> >
> > --
> > Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: [phone]
> > Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: [phone]
> > Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
> > Next Shopping Mall 75 Miles
> >
>
>
>
>
>

[ariel-37]

hi charlie,

Im pretty sure the engine would turn over with the stock starter with the plug removed because even with my own hands i could easily rotate the crankshaft through the pulley,PROVIDED, the plug is removed ; )

--- In mc-engine@..., Charles Finney <finneys@...> wrote:

>
> Will the kickstart turn the unit over with the plug removed?  If not, a
> remote starter will likely be an eye opener.
>
> Charlie in Iowa
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 5:40 PM, The Hirzel Office <office@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >   It�s a four stroke parallel twin, 650 cc. And it has about 13.5:1
> > compression. The stock starter has no problems turning it over, although it
> > does use up the battery quite quickly. Powering a starter motor with 24V is
> > not something I would like to try. It will work for a short time only, I
> > suspect.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > yup the video seems uneventful..is it a 2 stroke engine? mine is a 4 stroke
> > scooter with lots of compression, and the stock starter can't turn over the
> > thing even using fully charged automotive batteries. But I'm not surprised
> > of it, having a CR of 8.2:1 in its stock form, Yamaha just probably popped
> > in their smallish starters they could grab on.
> >
> > while we're at it, what would probably happen if I connected in series 2
> > automotive batteries and try starting the scoot with the higher voltage?
> > would the stock starter just "pffft" in a blink like 110 VCR's plugged on to
> > 220 outlets or would it probably turn over and eventually disintegrate?
> > hehehe
> >
> > --- In mc-engine@... <mc-engine%40yahoogroups.com>, "The
> > Hirzel Office" <office@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yep, that's me. I admit the first time I used it, it was with some
> > > trepidation. I prepared as well as I could, bracing my arms against my
> > bent
> > > legs, ready to jump out of harm's way. I was completely shocked when
> > > virtually nothing happened, except the bike started up instantly. It a
> > > complete non-event. Now, that I am used to it, it's second nature and I
> > have
> > > never had any "moments" with it. I'll happily supply better pictures of
> > it.
> > > It's not a difficult thing to build. I just used all the original gears
> > and
> > > starter, and replicated how it was on the bike.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ariel <satanael21@ <mailto:satanael21%40yahoo.com<satanael21%2540yahoo.com>>
> > > Tue, 10 Nov
> > > 2009 14:09:34
> > > >But i'm quite hesitant of breaking an arm or at least some fingers if
> > > >I'd go for the "totally portable/handy" route that's lingering on my
> > > >mind....
> > >
> > > Ah. Found it.
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s-nrtiqoiA
> > >
> > > Felix (who's on this list) built one.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: [phone]
> > > Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: [phone]
> > > Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
> > > Next Shopping Mall 75 Miles
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>