arrr.....

[John-675]

Well, went out to start the girl this morning.  I live in Ontario, Canada and the weather man says 10 degrees celciul and sunny tomorrow, so I figured I 'd get a November ride in.  A rare occurrance here in this part of the world.

The bike's been sitting in the garage, and this morning it was right around the freezing point.   I turned her over, and although it seemed to spark, the engine wouldn't catch and run.   On goes the battery chrage, because it has been sitting nearly a month without being run, and then I start trying it again...

Finally, after a number of back-firese and pops, it started, and after it warmed up, it seemed to be running okay.   After letting her sit running for a moment  ( actually went inot the house to grab a cuppa coffee ) I come out and it's spitting oil out !!

I quickly turned it off, and after a bit the oil stopped dripping, I wonder if I blew a head gasket on one of those backfires?  

John's new winter project now is a complete teardown I guess.  The bike has over 105,000 kms on her, so probably time anyhow.  

Any words of wisdom on blowing out gaskets on backfires?  

John
'02 BBBB Trophy
Ontario, Canada

[Kevin B-2]

Just an unusual thought. Check the oil level, is it over full and /or does it smell of fuel? It could be fuel tap left on prime or defective fuel tap has allowed a carb to flood due to sticking float whilst the bike has been stood.

The fuel could find it's way into the cylinder(s) past rings and into sump. Start the bike and the excess level will spew oil everywhere.

It's a really remote idea but I have seen something similar on a carburettored car that was fed from an electric pump. The float stuck open and with the ignition on the fuel all went into the sump. I drained 9.5 pints out of a sump meant to hold 6 pints. Oil everywhere and boy did it smell of fuel.

Again, remote hope, but worth a try before that strip down?

Also do yourself a favour and buy a compression tester and check the cylinders using that. A strip down without checking is a time consuming and expensive exercise if it isn't the head gasket.

--- In TriumphTrophy@..., "John" <JMMML@...> wrote:

>
> Well, went out to start the girl this morning.  I live in Ontario, Canada and the weather man says 10 degrees celciul and sunny tomorrow, so I figured I 'd get a November ride in.  A rare occurrance here in this part of the world.
>
> The bike's been sitting in the garage, and this morning it was right around the freezing point.   I turned her over, and although it seemed to spark, the engine wouldn't catch and run.   On goes the battery chrage, because it has been sitting nearly a month without being run, and then I start trying it again...
>
> Finally, after a number of back-firese and pops, it started, and after it warmed up, it seemed to be running okay.   After letting her sit running for a moment  ( actually went inot the house to grab a cuppa coffee ) I come out and it's spitting oil out !!
>
> I quickly turned it off, and after a bit the oil stopped dripping, I wonder if I blew a head gasket on one of those backfires?  
>
> John's new winter project now is a complete teardown I guess.  The bike has over 105,000 kms on her, so probably time anyhow.  
>
> Any words of wisdom on blowing out gaskets on backfires?  
>
> John
> '02 BBBB Trophy
> Ontario, Canada
>

[John-675]

You might be on to something.  I thought the oil on the garage floor looked pretty thin - which would be th ecase if mixed with fuel.  And I did have the petcock on the prime position for a bit when I was first trying to start her.

I'll have to get out my diagrams... where do you suppose the oil would come out if it were overfull?  

I've got one of those nasty black engines with a sight glass, not a dipstick and I can't see properly through the sight glass, so I'll have to dump the oil before I know it's overfull. It does seem lighter than it should be, so short of a taste test, I'll have to wait until I dump the oil..  

Looking at where the oil is dripping out and I've not torn any of the plastic bits off yet, it looks to be limited to around the overflow for the cooling system.  That's also the lowest point on the bike, so probably doesnt mean much.  I won't know more until I start taking the plastic off.

I agree with you, that compression testing is first thing on the list however if it's not just something real simple.  

And I sure hope its somethig simple.  reading the threads about trying to tune the carbs, and well, I think I'll be out of my mechanical comfort zone with this bike.  Always up for a challenge though.. time will tell.

John
'02 BBBBleeding.
Ontario, Canada

[Poppa Jack]

   Hey John,
   I would clean her up really good, top off the oil, fire it up, and  
see just where it 's leaking.
Other than on a drag-bike, full blown, I've never seen oil just spurt  
form a motor. I'd be looking for a cracked line, or a lessor seal. I  
blew up a BSA- a-10 once from the oil seal on the tach drive!
Kindest regards,
   Poppa Jack
On Nov 7, 2009, at 10:32 AM, John wrote:

> Well, went out to start the girl this morning. I live in Ontario,  
> Canada and the weather man says 10 degrees celciul and sunny  
> tomorrow, so I figured I 'd get a November ride in. A rare  
> occurrance here in this part of the world.
>
> The bike's been sitting in the garage, and this morning it was  
> right around the freezing point. I turned her over, and although it  
> seemed to spark, the engine wouldn't catch and run. On goes the  
> battery chrage, because it has been sitting nearly a month without  
> being run, and then I start trying it again...
>
> Finally, after a number of back-firese and pops, it started, and  
> after it warmed up, it seemed to be running okay. After letting her  
> sit running for a moment ( actually went inot the house to grab a  
> cuppa coffee ) I come out and it's spitting oil out !!
>
> I quickly turned it off, and after a bit the oil stopped dripping,  
> I wonder if I blew a head gasket on one of those backfires?
>
> John's new winter project now is a complete teardown I guess. The  
> bike has over 105,000 kms on her, so probably time anyhow.
>
> Any words of wisdom on blowing out gaskets on backfires?
>
> John
> '02 BBBB Trophy
> Ontario, Canada
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Bownez]

HI John,

I'm your neighbor in Minnesota, where it gets cold as well, and my 2001 BBBB was fussy to start after sitting for weeks during our cold, wet October. I have read where the battery must be fully charged to fire the plugs even if the starter motor cranks well. Perhaps I have also not fully developed the correct choke procedure when the bike is in the 40 degree range.
However, I do not have any oil leakage. Please let us know what you find with your engine.

Thanks,

Bones

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[jim.miles96]

Like Pop said, You've got to clean it up and find that leak before anyone can help you make a reasonable decision as to what the corrective action will be.

You will need a powerful light for inspection. If you don't find anything at first, try pushing and pulling on everything you can get your hands on. Some leaks are incredibly difficult to find until the line, fitting or hose is flexed. The hardest type of leak to find is the ones associated with contraction and expansion of metal. They usually don't leak very much but over time can make a nasty mess of you bike and floor. It's probably not the kind of leak that you have but you never know. I've used contact cleaner with compressed air to cool/clean a hot area to find this type of leak before. Also, rubbing alcohol works well for cleaning too. Another way to clean is to put your solvent into a bucket and use compressed air with a spray/hose attachment ($3 at harbor freight) and really clean her up good for inspection. I do this at each of the big maintenance intervals. If you can get it running, start it up for about 1 min and shut it down for a detailed inspection. This is just to build a few pounds of pressure in the sump. Then try for about 2 min and so on. Eventually, the right pressure/heat combination may produce the leak that you're after. With a big leak like your describing I doubt it will come down to all of this detail.

Good Luck,

Jim
2003 Trophy 1200
Collierville, TN

 
 

[jim.miles96]

hard starting problem. You may want to check to see what plugs you're running. Sounds like most folks are running the 8's in the winter and the 9's in the summer.  

Our FAQ's lists the DPR8-EA9 as an optional "winter" plug. I think this info is based on NKG's recommendations. It's hard to argue with experience and NKG knows a lot more about plugs than Triumph, so if NKG says the 8's are ok they probably are.

The only plug recommended by Triumph or the Haynes manual is the NKGDPR9-EA9. Nothing else.

Jim
2003 Trophy 1200
Collierville, TN

[KevinH-4]

I had the same problem with my 900 Trophy once. I'd read somewhere on this forum that in order to avoid the 1/4 tank fuel starvation, they just run the bike with the fuel tap in the prime position. Trouble was, I didn't understand how the tap worked so I left it parked up like that for a week and the bottom end of the engine filled with petrol.

Just a word of caution, if this has happened to your bike, be careful when you take the oil drain plug out, because you'll have an awful lot of thin fuel oil mix gushing out, and you'll need to have a larger than normal oil tray under the engine, and a suitable container to decant the (flammable)liquid into.

Of course, when I took the plug out, I didn't end up with a fuel/oil mix all over my garage floor, did I?
Another lesson learned about the Trophy :)

Welshkev
--- In TriumphTrophy@..., "John" <JMMML@...> wrote:

>
> Well, went out to start the girl this morning.  I live in Ontario, Canada and the weather man says 10 degrees celciul and sunny tomorrow, so I figured I 'd get a November ride in.  A rare occurrance here in this part of the world.
>
> The bike's been sitting in the garage, and this morning it was right around the freezing point.   I turned her over, and although it seemed to spark, the engine wouldn't catch and run.   On goes the battery chrage, because it has been sitting nearly a month without being run, and then I start trying it again...
>
> Finally, after a number of back-firese and pops, it started, and after it warmed up, it seemed to be running okay.   After letting her sit running for a moment  ( actually went inot the house to grab a cuppa coffee ) I come out and it's spitting oil out !!
>
> I quickly turned it off, and after a bit the oil stopped dripping, I wonder if I blew a head gasket on one of those backfires?  
>
> John's new winter project now is a complete teardown I guess.  The bike has over 105,000 kms on her, so probably time anyhow.  
>
> Any words of wisdom on blowing out gaskets on backfires?  
>
> John
> '02 BBBB Trophy
> Ontario, Canada
>

[Ken Hastie]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: KevinH

> I had the same problem with my 900 Trophy once. I'd read
> somewhere on this forum that in order to avoid the 1/4 tank fuel
> starvation, they just run the bike with the fuel tap in the prime
> position.

My solution is just as simple.  I refill before the fuel gauge shows red.

Ken the Geordie  SST 13
BSA A75R, A10, B40, D10, Triumph Trophy 1200

[Robert rawson]

Is it spitting oil or dripping? Wonder if this is reminiscent of the clutch
push rod seal problem i had recently.  Does it leak more on the side stand
dripping down onto the downpipes?

Robert
00 BBBB

>> Finally, after a number of back-firese and pops, it started, and
>> after it warmed up, it seemed to be running okay. After letting her
>> sit running for a moment ( actually went inot the house to grab a
>> cuppa coffee ) I come out and it's spitting oil out !!
>>
>> I quickly turned it off, and after a bit the oil stopped dripping,
>> I wonder if I blew a head gasket on one of those backfires?
>>
>> John's new winter project now is a complete teardown I guess. The
>> bike has over 105,000 kms on her, so probably time anyhow.
>>
>> Any words of wisdom on blowing out gaskets on backfires?
>>
>> John
>> '02 BBBB Trophy
>> Ontario, Canada
>>

 

[Robert rawson]

The clutch push rod seal problem I had confused the hell out of me having me think it was the crankcase breather and an over filled sump.  I thought the sump gasket may be leaking  also. Oil leaked into the front sprocket cover and then was thrown out leaking down over the water pump and onto the downpipes just inside the left fairing. Nothing was visual at all but would burn off when riding and then drip mainly when on side stand. I had kitchen towel  used as blotting paper to monitor where the drip was coming from and still did not find it until some others that had similar issues mentioned it on here.

I am not saying that is your problem but merely one option.

Regards


Robert


I'll have to get out my diagrams... where do you suppose the oil would come out if it were overfull?

I've got one of those nasty black engines with a sight glass, not a dipstick and I can't see properly through the sight glass, so I'll have to dump the oil before I know it's overfull. It does seem lighter than it should be, so short of a taste test, I'll have to wait until I dump the oil..

Looking at where the oil is dripping out and I've not torn any of the plastic bits off yet, it looks to be limited to around the overflow for the cooling system. That's also the lowest point on the bike, so probably doesnt mean much. I won't know more until I start taking the plastic off.

I agree with you, that compression testing is first thing on the list however if it's not just something real simple.

And I sure hope its somethig simple. reading the threads about trying to tune the carbs, and well, I think I'll be out of my mechanical comfort zone with this bike. Always up for a challenge though.. time will tell.

John
'02 BBBBleeding.
Ontario, Canada




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[john tabberer]

I think I would be tempted to drain the oil, measure how much there is, If there is more coming out that you expect the engine to hold normally, then you could be suffering from petrol leakage on the fuel tap.
 
change the filter anyway and fill it up again.

If the oil level was significantly high, oil will leak out of the stranges places.
 
once the oil is known to be to the correct level,
try running the bike again...
Hopefully it will be leak free again.
if not, at least the oil will be less messy whilst you asre looking for the leak, no dirty black stains on the floor...
regards John
--- On Sun, 8/11/09, Robert rawson <OfficerRawson@...> wrote:


From: Robert rawson <OfficerRawson@...>
Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] arrr.....
To: TriumphTrophy@...
Date: Sunday, 8 November, 2009, 19:48


 



Is it spitting oil or dripping? Wonder if this is reminiscent of the clutch
push rod seal problem i had recently. Does it leak more on the side stand
dripping down onto the downpipes?

Robert
00 BBBB

>> Finally, after a number of back-firese and pops, it started, and
>> after it warmed up, it seemed to be running okay. After letting her
>> sit running for a moment ( actually went inot the house to grab a
>> cuppa coffee ) I come out and it's spitting oil out !!
>>
>> I quickly turned it off, and after a bit the oil stopped dripping,
>> I wonder if I blew a head gasket on one of those backfires?
>>
>> John's new winter project now is a complete teardown I guess. The
>> bike has over 105,000 kms on her, so probably time anyhow.
>>
>> Any words of wisdom on blowing out gaskets on backfires?
>>
>> John
>> '02 BBBB Trophy
>> Ontario, Canada
>>

     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jacques, Martin, VF-Group]

John,
 
I believe over-filled oil is forced into the airbox via the crankcase
breather. Given the airbox has a drain hole near the coolant expansion
tank, I am guessing that is where you are seeing the oil coming from.
 
As others have said, I highly recommend draining the oil and seeing if
there is fuel in it. If so, probably worth doing a very short (~50 mile)
oil change with cheap oil to wash any remaining petrol out.
 
However, bear in mind that if you have got fuel in the sump, one of your
carb float bowl valves is stuck open and you will have this problem all
the time when the engine is running. Fix the carbs first. If you are
able to remove the airbox and pull the carbs back from the inlet with
the fuel lines still connected, fuel tap on prime will show you which
carb is still flowing fuel.
 

Martin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kevin B-2]

Hi,

Would love an update on the problem you had. Rereading your original post has strengthened my thought on fuel. Especially the backfires!

Regards,

Kevin

[Kevin B-2]

I hope that means this is a problem fixed. Shame no feedback though.

--- In TriumphTrophy@..., "Kevin B" <kandlbarrett@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Would love an update on the problem you had. Rereading your original post has strengthened my thought on fuel. Especially the backfires!
>
> Regards,
>
> Kevin
>