atheros - just curious, ot

[BOFH-5]

saw
http://madwifi.org/wiki/news/20080725/ath9k-atheros-unveils-free-linux-driver-for

and was just curious if this is true 'open source' or is it full of magic
numbers...

--
http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
"This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." --
Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation.
"Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or
internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory
where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford
learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related

[j4nKy]

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 11:01:33PM -0400, bofh wrote:
> saw
> http://madwifi.org/wiki/news/20080725/ath9k-atheros-unveils-free-linux-driver-for
>
> and was just curious if this is true 'open source' or is it full of magic
> numbers...

well, you can 'git' the sources yourself.

they used license.template for the license.

--
jakemsr@...
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

[BOFH-5]

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Jacob Meuser <jakemsr@...>wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 11:01:33PM -0400, bofh wrote:
> > saw
> >
> http://madwifi.org/wiki/news/20080725/ath9k-atheros-unveils-free-linux-driver-for
> >
> > and was just curious if this is true 'open source' or is it full of magic
> > numbers...
>
> well, you can 'git' the sources yourself.


Apologies.  If openbsd authors are level 30 Gods, I'm a level 0 NPC.



--
http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
"This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." --
Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation.
"Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or
internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory
where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford
learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related

[Marco Peereboom]

I threw my git saving throw so I was able to avoid looking at it.

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 12:09:49AM -0400, bofh wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Jacob Meuser <jakemsr@...>wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 11:01:33PM -0400, bofh wrote:
> > > saw
> > >
> > http://madwifi.org/wiki/news/20080725/ath9k-atheros-unveils-free-linux-driver-for
> > >
> > > and was just curious if this is true 'open source' or is it full of magic
> > > numbers...
> >
> > well, you can 'git' the sources yourself.
>
>
> Apologies.  If openbsd authors are level 30 Gods, I'm a level 0 NPC.
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
> "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." --
> Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation.
> "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or
> internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory
> where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford
> learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related

[Theo de Raadt]

> saw
> http://madwifi.org/wiki/news/20080725/ath9k-atheros-unveils-free-linux-driver-for
>
> and was just curious if this is true 'open source' or is it full of magic
> numbers...

I have a question for you, actually.

Have you not been listening every single time when we ask for the documentation?

[BOFH-5]

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 7:09 PM, Theo de Raadt <deraadt@...>
wrote:

> I have a question for you, actually.
>
> Have you not been listening every single time when we ask for the
> documentation?
>

I have, unfortunately.  From the announcement, it sounded open source but
undocumented, and also in conjunction with mad-wifi folks, so I didn't have
high hopes.  I was just hoping that someone decided to do the right thing.
Sounds like they decided a good show was better than doing the right thing
:(


--
http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
"This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." --
Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation.
"Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or
internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory
where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford
learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related

[BOFH-5]

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 8:53 PM, bofh <goodb0fh@...> wrote:

> I have, unfortunately.  From the announcement, it sounded open source but
> undocumented, and also in conjunction with mad-wifi folks, so I didn't have
> high hopes.  I was just hoping that someone decided to do the right thing.
> Sounds like they decided a good show was better than doing the right thing
> :(
>

I went back and re-read the press release.  It seems to be much worse than
first glance.  "[we hired X to] helps enhance regulatory compliance in the
Linux kernel."  This probably means locking down the driver even more.
Pretty sad.

I'm hoping VIA's release of documentation is far better.


--
http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
"This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." --
Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation.
"Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or
internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory
where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford
learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related

[Jeffrey 'jf' Lim]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 9:00 AM, bofh <goodb0fh@...> wrote:

>
> I went back and re-read the press release.  It seems to be much worse than
> first glance.  "[we hired X to] helps enhance regulatory compliance in the
> Linux kernel."  This probably means locking down the driver even more.
> Pretty sad.
>
> I'm hoping VIA's release of documentation is far better.
>

not too sure about that!!!
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=via_bluff&num=1

http://linux.via.com.tw/ - the damned bastards released nothing but binary
drivers. And not even theirs at that!! (look at the filename -
"via-unichrome".... This is a vendor, pretending to be offer open source
support - but only pointing to/pushing u back to the reverse engineering
efforts which are in need of the *real* support from VIA in the first
place!!!).

-jf

--
In the meantime, here is your PSA:
"It's so hard to write a graphics driver that open-sourcing it would not
help."
-- Andrew Fear, Software Product Manager, NVIDIA Corporation
http://kerneltrap.org/node/7228

[BOFH-5]

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 11:32 PM, Jeffrey 'jf' Lim <jfs.world@...>wrote:

>
> http://linux.via.com.tw/ - the damned bastards released nothing but binary
> drivers. And not even theirs at that!! (look at the filename -
> "via-unichrome".... This is a vendor, pretending to be offer open source
> support - but only pointing to/pushing u back to the reverse engineering
> efforts which are in need of the *real* support from VIA in the first
> place!!!).
>
> Here's the updated link:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjYyMg

800 pages worth of docs.  Not sure how much use that is, but hopefully
useful.


--
http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
"This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." --
Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation.
"Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or
internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory
where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford
learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related

[Reyk Floeter-2]

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 09:28:10AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
> I threw my git saving throw so I was able to avoid looking at it.
>

There is a version in the OpenWRT tree:
https://dev.openwrt.org/cgi-bin/trac.fcgi/browser/trunk/package/ath9k/src/drivers/net/wireless/ath9k

The following thread also carries some information:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/18019

Actually, I'm confused.  It carries an ISC license with an Atheros
copyright.  Luis Rodriguez (madwifi/ath5k) and Jouni Malinen (Linux
Prism2 HostAP) are working for Atheros now.  The code seems to include
open source HAL-code, there is no binary blob.

The only missing thing is the documentation, but even the existing
driver might help to port it to OpenBSD.  Actually, the ath9k stuff is
very similar to ath5k which is indeed based on my ar5k driver (OpenBSD
ath(4))... too bad that Atheros did not decide to use a copyright like

  Copyright (c) 2008 Atheros Communications Inc.
  Copyright (c) 2004-2007 Reyk Floeter <reyk@...>

They neither apologized for all the trouble nor give me any credits
for my work.  ath9k would not exist without my work on the OpenBSD
ar5k driver, it was a door opener, the base of the ath5k port, and
Atheros' way into the Linux kernel.  It was the reason why Luis
Rodriguez got his new job.  It might help Atheros to gain market
shares again, after they lost so many to more open companies like
Ralink Tech.

At a given time I will have a look at it to see if we can fix our
ath(4) driver to support the latest 802.11n chipsets.  It was already
very close and the released source code might help to fix the issues.
I don't think that we need a completely new driver for this in
OpenBSD, we have a chipset abstraction in our driver that got removed
by the ath5k folks.  And the MAC is still almost identical.

Reyk

[Jacob Yocom-Piatt-2]

Reyk Floeter wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 09:28:10AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
>  
>> I threw my git saving throw so I was able to avoid looking at it.
>>
>>    
>
> There is a version in the OpenWRT tree:
> https://dev.openwrt.org/cgi-bin/trac.fcgi/browser/trunk/package/ath9k/src/drivers/net/wireless/ath9k
>
> The following thread also carries some information:
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/18019
>
> Actually, I'm confused.  It carries an ISC license with an Atheros
> copyright.  Luis Rodriguez (madwifi/ath5k) and Jouni Malinen (Linux
> Prism2 HostAP) are working for Atheros now.  The code seems to include
> open source HAL-code, there is no binary blob.
>
> The only missing thing is the documentation, but even the existing
> driver might help to port it to OpenBSD.  Actually, the ath9k stuff is
> very similar to ath5k which is indeed based on my ar5k driver (OpenBSD
> ath(4))... too bad that Atheros did not decide to use a copyright like
>
>   Copyright (c) 2008 Atheros Communications Inc.
>   Copyright (c) 2004-2007 Reyk Floeter <reyk@...>
>
> They neither apologized for all the trouble nor give me any credits
> for my work.  ath9k would not exist without my work on the OpenBSD
> ar5k driver, it was a door opener, the base of the ath5k port, and
> Atheros' way into the Linux kernel.  It was the reason why Luis
> Rodriguez got his new job.  It might help Atheros to gain market
> shares again, after they lost so many to more open companies like
> Ralink Tech.
>
>  

it is really reassuring to see that a company like atheros is doing the
right things here:

- not releasing proper documentation
- then not giving credit for WORK DONE FOR FREE THAT THEY CAN REUSE AT
THEIR LEISURE

it's a good thing that companies like atheros are so mindful of the
people that help expand their user base, especially at no expense to them.

whoever makes these garbage decisions at atheros should have their
employment terminated.

[David Vasek]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Jacob Yocom-Piatt wrote:

> Reyk Floeter wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 09:28:10AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
>>
>>> I threw my git saving throw so I was able to avoid looking at it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> There is a version in the OpenWRT tree:
>> https://dev.openwrt.org/cgi-bin/trac.fcgi/browser/trunk/package/ath9k/src/drivers/net/wireless/ath9k
>>
>> The following thread also carries some information:
>> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/18019
>>
>> Actually, I'm confused.  It carries an ISC license with an Atheros
>> copyright.  Luis Rodriguez (madwifi/ath5k) and Jouni Malinen (Linux
>> Prism2 HostAP) are working for Atheros now.  The code seems to include
>> open source HAL-code, there is no binary blob.
>>
>> The only missing thing is the documentation, but even the existing
>> driver might help to port it to OpenBSD.  Actually, the ath9k stuff is
>> very similar to ath5k which is indeed based on my ar5k driver (OpenBSD
>> ath(4))... too bad that Atheros did not decide to use a copyright like
>>
>>   Copyright (c) 2008 Atheros Communications Inc.
>>   Copyright (c) 2004-2007 Reyk Floeter <reyk@...>
>>
>> They neither apologized for all the trouble nor give me any credits
>> for my work.  ath9k would not exist without my work on the OpenBSD
>> ar5k driver, it was a door opener, the base of the ath5k port, and
>> Atheros' way into the Linux kernel.  It was the reason why Luis
>> Rodriguez got his new job.  It might help Atheros to gain market
>> shares again, after they lost so many to more open companies like
>> Ralink Tech.
>>
>>
>
>
> it is really reassuring to see that a company like atheros is doing the right
> things here:
>
> - not releasing proper documentation
> - then not giving credit for WORK DONE FOR FREE THAT THEY CAN REUSE AT THEIR
> LEISURE
>
> it's a good thing that companies like atheros are so mindful of the people
> that help expand their user base, especially at no expense to them.
>
> whoever makes these garbage decisions at atheros should have their employment
> terminated.

Isn't it a DEJA VU?

A different "company" (Linux developers then, Atheros now), but the very
same people. Still the same "BSD licence means no copyright" attitude.
I am afraid that the old story has never ended.

Regards,
David

P.S. And, btw., they were so eager to relicense Reyk's HAL from BSD
licence to GPL -- isn't Atheros breaking the GPL licence of Linux's ath5k
driver now? Didn't they argument, that the purpose of GPL is to protect
their work from being used by big corporations for free?

[Denis Doroshenko]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Reyk Floeter <reyk@...> wrote:
> They neither apologized for all the trouble nor give me any credits
> for my work.  ath9k would not exist without my work on the OpenBSD
> ar5k driver, it was a door opener, the base of the ath5k port, and
> Atheros' way into the Linux kernel.  It was the reason why Luis
> Rodriguez got his new job.  It might help Atheros to gain market
> shares again, after they lost so many to more open companies like
> Ralink Tech.

those guys are sure acting in frustrating ways. it is unpleasant to be
atheros user, these days even more (pity my notebooks are given to me
with no possibility to choose).

> At a given time I will have a look at it to see if we can fix our
> ath(4) driver to support the latest 802.11n chipsets.  It was already
> very close and the released source code might help to fix the issues.
> I don't think that we need a completely new driver for this in
> OpenBSD, we have a chipset abstraction in our driver that got removed
> by the ath5k folks.  And the MAC is still almost identical.

perhaps this is clear OT, but is there possibility ath(4) will be
blessed with WPA support?

> Reyk

thanks.

[Eric Furman-3]

Who can we write to at atheros to tell them I will never
ever purchase one of their products?

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:18:34 -0500, "Jacob Yocom-Piatt"
<jy-p@...> said:

> Reyk Floeter wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 09:28:10AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
> >  
> >> I threw my git saving throw so I was able to avoid looking at it.
> >>
> >>    
> >
> > There is a version in the OpenWRT tree:
> > https://dev.openwrt.org/cgi-bin/trac.fcgi/browser/trunk/package/ath9k/src/drivers/net/wireless/ath9k
> >
> > The following thread also carries some information:
> > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/18019
> >
> > Actually, I'm confused.  It carries an ISC license with an Atheros
> > copyright.  Luis Rodriguez (madwifi/ath5k) and Jouni Malinen (Linux
> > Prism2 HostAP) are working for Atheros now.  The code seems to include
> > open source HAL-code, there is no binary blob.
> >
> > The only missing thing is the documentation, but even the existing
> > driver might help to port it to OpenBSD.  Actually, the ath9k stuff is
> > very similar to ath5k which is indeed based on my ar5k driver (OpenBSD
> > ath(4))... too bad that Atheros did not decide to use a copyright like
> >
> >   Copyright (c) 2008 Atheros Communications Inc.
> >   Copyright (c) 2004-2007 Reyk Floeter <reyk@...>
> >
> > They neither apologized for all the trouble nor give me any credits
> > for my work.  ath9k would not exist without my work on the OpenBSD
> > ar5k driver, it was a door opener, the base of the ath5k port, and
> > Atheros' way into the Linux kernel.  It was the reason why Luis
> > Rodriguez got his new job.  It might help Atheros to gain market
> > shares again, after they lost so many to more open companies like
> > Ralink Tech.
> >
> >  
>
>
> it is really reassuring to see that a company like atheros is doing the
> right things here:
>
> - not releasing proper documentation
> - then not giving credit for WORK DONE FOR FREE THAT THEY CAN REUSE AT
> THEIR LEISURE
>
> it's a good thing that companies like atheros are so mindful of the
> people that help expand their user base, especially at no expense to
> them.
>
> whoever makes these garbage decisions at atheros should have their
> employment terminated.

[Sunnz]

2008/7/29 Eric Furman <ericfurman@...>:
> Who can we write to at atheros to tell them I will never
> ever purchase one of their products?
>

http://www.atheros.com/contact/index.html

Might work, you get e-mail, postal, and phone numbers to contact them with.

[Paul de Weerd]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 10:47:31AM -0400, Eric Furman wrote:
| Who can we write to at atheros to tell them I will never
| ever purchase one of their products?

Maybe it's better to write a polite e-mail explaining the situation
wrt documentation vs source code (even if it is ISC licensed). This is
quite a big step, Atheros has made, asking them to finish through
(with proper documentation, released without NDA's) might make more
sense. If they refuse you can always explain that that would mean
never buying their hardware, including recommending other people not
to buy it.

Remember to be polite and explain the situation carefully. Lots of
companies think that shipping "open source drivers" is the epitome of
being the good guys (and with all the linux people screaming in
ecstacy about this release, it is even harder to explain this). Care
must be taken to explain it properly and thoroughly - large companies
learn slowly. Very slowly. (and some never learn)

Cheers,

Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd

| On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:18:34 -0500, "Jacob Yocom-Piatt"
| <jy-p@...> said:
| > Reyk Floeter wrote:
| > > On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 09:28:10AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
| > >  
| > >> I threw my git saving throw so I was able to avoid looking at it.
| > >>
| > >>    
| > >
| > > There is a version in the OpenWRT tree:
| > > https://dev.openwrt.org/cgi-bin/trac.fcgi/browser/trunk/package/ath9k/src/drivers/net/wireless/ath9k
| > >
| > > The following thread also carries some information:
| > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/18019
| > >
| > > Actually, I'm confused.  It carries an ISC license with an Atheros
| > > copyright.  Luis Rodriguez (madwifi/ath5k) and Jouni Malinen (Linux
| > > Prism2 HostAP) are working for Atheros now.  The code seems to include
| > > open source HAL-code, there is no binary blob.
| > >
| > > The only missing thing is the documentation, but even the existing
| > > driver might help to port it to OpenBSD.  Actually, the ath9k stuff is
| > > very similar to ath5k which is indeed based on my ar5k driver (OpenBSD
| > > ath(4))... too bad that Atheros did not decide to use a copyright like
| > >
| > >   Copyright (c) 2008 Atheros Communications Inc.
| > >   Copyright (c) 2004-2007 Reyk Floeter <reyk@...>
| > >
| > > They neither apologized for all the trouble nor give me any credits
| > > for my work.  ath9k would not exist without my work on the OpenBSD
| > > ar5k driver, it was a door opener, the base of the ath5k port, and
| > > Atheros' way into the Linux kernel.  It was the reason why Luis
| > > Rodriguez got his new job.  It might help Atheros to gain market
| > > shares again, after they lost so many to more open companies like
| > > Ralink Tech.
| > >
| > >  
| >
| >
| > it is really reassuring to see that a company like atheros is doing the
| > right things here:
| >
| > - not releasing proper documentation
| > - then not giving credit for WORK DONE FOR FREE THAT THEY CAN REUSE AT
| > THEIR LEISURE
| >
| > it's a good thing that companies like atheros are so mindful of the
| > people that help expand their user base, especially at no expense to
| > them.
| >
| > whoever makes these garbage decisions at atheros should have their
| > employment terminated.
|

--
>++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<+++++++.>+++[<------>-]<.>+++[<+
+++++++++++>-]<.>++[<------------>-]<+.--------------.[-]
                 http://www.weirdnet.nl/                 

[Marco Peereboom]

> P.S. And, btw., they were so eager to relicense Reyk's HAL from BSD licence
> to GPL -- isn't Atheros breaking the GPL licence of Linux's ath5k driver
> now? Didn't they argument, that the purpose of GPL is to protect their work
> from being used by big corporations for free?

Which it doesn't.  Stop parroting horse shit.

[David Vasek]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Marco Peereboom wrote:

>> P.S. And, btw., they were so eager to relicense Reyk's HAL from BSD licence
>> to GPL -- isn't Atheros breaking the GPL licence of Linux's ath5k driver
>> now? Didn't they argument, that the purpose of GPL is to protect their work
>> from being used by big corporations for free?
>
> Which it doesn't.  Stop parroting horse shit.

Which was what my comment was meant to show.

Anyway, I shouldn't have sent any such remarks on this, it is completely
off-topic and a waste of everyone's time, so let's stop it. Sorry for
that.

Regards,
David

[Nenhum_de_Nos-2]

On Mon, July 28, 2008 11:47, Eric Furman wrote:

> Who can we write to at atheros to tell them I will never
> ever purchase one of their products?
>
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:18:34 -0500, "Jacob Yocom-Piatt"
> <jy-p@...> said:
>> Reyk Floeter wrote:
>> > On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 09:28:10AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
>> >
>> >> I threw my git saving throw so I was able to avoid looking at it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > There is a version in the OpenWRT tree:
>> > https://dev.openwrt.org/cgi-bin/trac.fcgi/browser/trunk/package/ath9k/src/drivers/net/wireless/ath9k
>> >
>> > The following thread also carries some information:
>> > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/18019
>> >
>> > Actually, I'm confused.  It carries an ISC license with an Atheros
>> > copyright.  Luis Rodriguez (madwifi/ath5k) and Jouni Malinen (Linux
>> > Prism2 HostAP) are working for Atheros now.  The code seems to include
>> > open source HAL-code, there is no binary blob.
>> >
>> > The only missing thing is the documentation, but even the existing
>> > driver might help to port it to OpenBSD.  Actually, the ath9k stuff is
>> > very similar to ath5k which is indeed based on my ar5k driver (OpenBSD
>> > ath(4))... too bad that Atheros did not decide to use a copyright like
>> >
>> >   Copyright (c) 2008 Atheros Communications Inc.
>> >   Copyright (c) 2004-2007 Reyk Floeter <reyk@...>
>> >
>> > They neither apologized for all the trouble nor give me any credits
>> > for my work.  ath9k would not exist without my work on the OpenBSD
>> > ar5k driver, it was a door opener, the base of the ath5k port, and
>> > Atheros' way into the Linux kernel.  It was the reason why Luis
>> > Rodriguez got his new job.  It might help Atheros to gain market
>> > shares again, after they lost so many to more open companies like
>> > Ralink Tech.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> it is really reassuring to see that a company like atheros is doing the
>> right things here:
>>
>> - not releasing proper documentation
>> - then not giving credit for WORK DONE FOR FREE THAT THEY CAN REUSE AT
>> THEIR LEISURE
>>
>> it's a good thing that companies like atheros are so mindful of the
>> people that help expand their user base, especially at no expense to
>> them.
>>
>> whoever makes these garbage decisions at atheros should have their
>> employment terminated.

as I'm just a user, what you developers think about the above message
being forwarded to:

dakota@...
ir@...
gwood@...
deb@...
alexis@...

would it make it better to the developers ? worse or wouldn't make any diff ?

because I buy atheros as it works on every BSD I use just fine. and I tell
everybody to do the same.

thanks,

matheus
--
We will call you cygnus,
The God of balance you shall be

[Travers Buda-2]

* Reyk Floeter <reyk@...> [2008-07-28 09:53:58]:

>
> Actually, I'm confused.  It carries an ISC license with an Atheros
> copyright.  Luis Rodriguez (madwifi/ath5k) and Jouni Malinen (Linux
> Prism2 HostAP) are working for Atheros now.  The code seems to include
> open source HAL-code, there is no binary blob.
>
> The only missing thing is the documentation, but even the existing
> driver might help to port it to OpenBSD.  Actually, the ath9k stuff is
> very similar to ath5k which is indeed based on my ar5k driver (OpenBSD
> ath(4))... too bad that Atheros did not decide to use a copyright like
>
>   Copyright (c) 2008 Atheros Communications Inc.
>   Copyright (c) 2004-2007 Reyk Floeter <reyk@...>
>
> They neither apologized for all the trouble nor give me any credits
> for my work.  ath9k would not exist without my work on the OpenBSD
> ar5k driver, it was a door opener, the base of the ath5k port, and
> Atheros' way into the Linux kernel.  It was the reason why Luis
> Rodriguez got his new job.  It might help Atheros to gain market
> shares again, after they lost so many to more open companies like
> Ralink Tech.
>

Didn't someone mention they even used license.template?  What's up
with that?

Why is this code ISC licensed anyhow?  I suppose it's a bit off-topic
but I was under the impression that Torvalds only _wants_ *wink*
GPL code.  Perhaps they're keeping ISC around to placate Reyk or
perhaps make themselves feel less guilty?  Despite the licensing,
I'm sure it will be bundled with every linux distro out there
regardless.  Most of those guys just don't seem to care what the
license is let alone actually understand it.  Perhaps it's less of
an open source push than it is for market share.  That might explain
the choice of ISC--more adoption, albeit painful if you don't like
magic.

Atheros must like magic, they could have just seded the explicitives
out of their docs and put them on an ftp.  They would not have
needed to pay anybody and it would have taken less time.

This has nothing to do about opening up--they want more market
share.  Incidentally, how many 802.11 stacks does linux have now?

--
Travers Buda