attribution of data for use on TV

[telegee]

Hello, I have a license / attribution question. I am evaluating
whether or not to use OpenStreetMap data in my commercial
application. The question I have is mainly one of attribution. My
customers are television stations. My product will be used on air.
The mapping is not the core focus of the this particular product;
more of a value add type of feature.

My question is what type of attribution is appropriate? I have no
problem informing my end-users where I get the data. More than
happy to do that. However, do I need to attribute while the
application is used on-air? Screen real estate is precious on a TV
screen. Plus, some clients are un-easy about attribution during the
broadcast. Attributing during the credits roll at the end of the
broadcast would be doable I suppose. Anyway, I want to do what is
right here. So, do I simply attribute in the app and let my TV
users know I'm using OpenStreetMap data OR do I need to attribute
on-air? I could easily add an OpenStreetMap attribution in the
splash screen and about box.

I've read archives, posts, etc. - where/when/how much attribution
seems to be a gray area. Any guidance would be appreciated.


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[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

telegee@... wrote:
> My question is what type of attribution is appropriate?

We had a huge discussion about this 2.5 years ago but not a lot has
changed since, so you might want to read the thread with the misleading
subject "OSM Layer into Adobe Illustrator",

http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-February/011537.html

where a guy from a TV broadcaster inquired about using the Baghdad map
on-air.

It all boils down to paragraph 4c of the CC-BY-SA license which says:

"You must keep intact all copyright notices for the Work and give the
Original Author credit reasonable to the medium or means You are
utilizing..."

The problem is, or at least was for that particular request 2.5 years
ago, that nobody in OSM can give you a definitive and legally binding
answer what exactly "reasonable to the medium or means" is.

I think I'm speaking for the majority of contributors when I say that
having the credits in the credits roll at the end of a TV production is
perfectly all right (that's the usual place for credits in that medium)
but the responsiblity rests with you, or the broadcaster, in the end.

> Anyway, I want to do what is
> right here. So, do I simply attribute in the app and let my TV
> users know I'm using OpenStreetMap data OR do I need to attribute
> on-air? I could easily add an OpenStreetMap attribution in the
> splash screen and about box.

For *you* it is sufficient to tell your clients - in a manner reasonable
to your medium, i.e. computer software - that you're using OSM data and
that this comes under the license CC-BY-SA 2.0. That's all that is
legally required from you. The fact that the data is CC-BY-SA then means
that your customers, when using the data, must also acknowledge the
source and specify the license; this, however, is not your
responsibility but theirs. Of course if you are interested in a healthy
long-term relationship with your customers you should advise them
accordingly, lest they get a bollocking from angry OSM contributors (see
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution) and then
complain to you about not having been informed.

Bye
Frederik

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[Barnett, Phillip]

Hi,

Frederik Ramm schrieb:


>where a guy from a TV broadcaster inquired about using the Baghdad map
on-air.

That guy was me :-)
We never used the map in the end - we're a news broadcaster so didn't have time to thrash through the legalities on that day.

>I think I'm speaking for the majority of contributors when I say that
>having the credits in the credits roll at the end of a TV production is
>perfectly all right (that's the usual place for credits in that medium)
>but the responsiblity rests with you, or the broadcaster, in the end.

As a further datum point, the map generation system we use at the moment, Curious maps from Viz systems (http://www.vizrt.com/products/article231.ece) is pretty standard in broadcasting, and uses datasets from a variety of sources, public domain and private. USGS and NASA for long range views, Microsoft Virtual Earth for close-ups. In this case, the Virtual Earth logo is displayed reasonably prominently onscreen, overlaying the graphics, rather than in the credits at the end of the program. Nobody seems bothered about that as a requirement. ie, it doesn't annoy anybody, so it seems fair to expect similar prominence for OSM data.

Although it's just occurred to me that Microsoft license their data from someone else (TeleAtlas?) so I'm surprised they get the onscreen credit, rather than the original supplier.

Regards

Phillip





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[Emilie Laffray]

2009/9/17 Barnett, Phillip <PHILLIP.BARNETT@...>

Although it's just occurred to me that Microsoft license their data from someone else (TeleAtlas?) so I'm surprised they get the onscreen credit, rather than the original supplier.

Navteq for Microsoft.

Emilie Laffray

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[Matt Amos-3]

On 9/17/09, Frederik Ramm <frederik@...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> telegee@... wrote:
>> My question is what type of attribution is appropriate?
>
> I think I'm speaking for the majority of contributors when I say that
> having the credits in the credits roll at the end of a TV production is
> perfectly all right (that's the usual place for credits in that medium)
> but the responsiblity rests with you, or the broadcaster, in the end.

+1

i agree - the method of attribution can be whatever the standard
method of attribution is for the medium.

of course, we'd all like to see the OSM logo displayed prominently on
the screen, but it should be an advantage of using OSM data that you
don't have to give free advertising to TA/NT/MS/GG ;-)

cheers,

matt

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[Paul Johnson-20]

On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 23:19 -0500,
telegee@... wrote:

> My question is what type of attribution is appropriate? I have no
> problem informing my end-users where I get the data. More than
> happy to do that. However, do I need to attribute while the
> application is used on-air? Screen real estate is precious on a TV
> screen. Plus, some clients are un-easy about attribution during the
> broadcast. Attributing during the credits roll at the end of the
> broadcast would be doable I suppose. Anyway, I want to do what is
> right here. So, do I simply attribute in the app and let my TV
> users know I'm using OpenStreetMap data OR do I need to attribute
> on-air? I could easily add an OpenStreetMap attribution in the
> splash screen and about box.

I've noticed almost all the local broadcasters use Google Earth for
this, and display a small, translucent Google logo in the corner of the
map view.  I imagine a little "osm.org" in the corner similar to
Google's attribution would work for that format.




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[Peter Miller-7]

On 19 Sep 2009, at 04:38, Paul Johnson wrote:

> On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 23:19 -0500,
> telegee@... wrote:
>
>> My question is what type of attribution is appropriate? I have no
>> problem informing my end-users where I get the data. More than
>> happy to do that. However, do I need to attribute while the
>> application is used on-air? Screen real estate is precious on a TV
>> screen. Plus, some clients are un-easy about attribution during the
>> broadcast. Attributing during the credits roll at the end of the
>> broadcast would be doable I suppose. Anyway, I want to do what is
>> right here. So, do I simply attribute in the app and let my TV
>> users know I'm using OpenStreetMap data OR do I need to attribute
>> on-air? I could easily add an OpenStreetMap attribution in the
>> splash screen and about box.
>
> I've noticed almost all the local broadcasters use Google Earth for
> this, and display a small, translucent Google logo in the corner of  
> the
> map view.  I imagine a little "osm.org" in the corner similar to
> Google's attribution would work for that format.

That seems to be a good idea. We have a trade-marked logo - possibly  
that would be useful. I know it isn't a URL but might be more  
identifiable and 'reasonable' for the medium. Mention on the website  
associated with a program is another option that has been proposed.

We do have this situation described as a 'use case' for the new  
license and the recommendation against the use case is to create a  
community guideline for it - possibly we have just done so!
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_Licence/Use_Cases

I certainly don't see anyone who makes and effort and does something  
reasonable in the circumstances getting criticised.


Regards,


Peter

>
>
> _______________________________________________
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[Matt Amos-3]

On 9/19/09, Peter Miller <peter.miller@...> wrote:

>
> On 19 Sep 2009, at 04:38, Paul Johnson wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 23:19 -0500,
>> telegee@... wrote:
>>
>>> My question is what type of attribution is appropriate? I have no
>>> problem informing my end-users where I get the data. More than
>>> happy to do that. However, do I need to attribute while the
>>> application is used on-air? Screen real estate is precious on a TV
>>> screen. Plus, some clients are un-easy about attribution during the
>>> broadcast. Attributing during the credits roll at the end of the
>>> broadcast would be doable I suppose. Anyway, I want to do what is
>>> right here. So, do I simply attribute in the app and let my TV
>>> users know I'm using OpenStreetMap data OR do I need to attribute
>>> on-air? I could easily add an OpenStreetMap attribution in the
>>> splash screen and about box.
>>
>> I've noticed almost all the local broadcasters use Google Earth for
>> this, and display a small, translucent Google logo in the corner of
>> the
>> map view.  I imagine a little "osm.org" in the corner similar to
>> Google's attribution would work for that format.
>
> That seems to be a good idea. We have a trade-marked logo - possibly
> that would be useful. I know it isn't a URL but might be more
> identifiable and 'reasonable' for the medium. Mention on the website
> associated with a program is another option that has been proposed.
>
> We do have this situation described as a 'use case' for the new
> license and the recommendation against the use case is to create a
> community guideline for it - possibly we have just done so!
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_Licence/Use_Cases
>
> I certainly don't see anyone who makes and effort and does something
> reasonable in the circumstances getting criticised.

i agree - if the ODbL is accepted as the new license, that could clear
up a lot of the worries about what the correct attribution is.

cheers,

matt

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