binary distribution policy

[Yuval Levy-6]

the following discussion was at [0] where it is off topic. It is
important here, hence the continuation:

--- In wwp@..., "Erik Krause" <erik.krause@...> wrote:
 >
 > On Saturday, November 07, 2009 at 22:37, yuval_levy wrote:
 >
 > > my opinion about that specific installer:
 > >
 > >
http://panospace.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/hugin-2009-2-0-windows-installer/
 >
 > I think hugin distribution politics is far from the high quality of
 > the software.


Erik, If you think you can do better, go ahead and do it. You have all
the necessary information, tools, and accesses to distribute Hugin
differently.

Frankly I am annoyed. I know we have *different* views. I respect your
opinion. I do not accept your qualitative judgment. Have you done
anything better? Have you done anything at all other than criticizing?

There is no *politics* in the Hugin distribution. There are facts:

1. The development team does not have the resources to consistently
produce binaries for distribution. The nature and composition of the
team changes continuously. Slowing development because of binary
distribution is unacceptable to me.

2. Users have *always* built and distributed the binaries. It will stay
so as long as the necessary resources are not consistently available to
the project. Resources = combination of hardware, skill, time.

This is true for MacOSX; for Ubuntu; for Fedora; for Gentoo; for
FreeBSD; and for any other system on which Hugin is known to work. Why
should Windows be treated any different? Or why should the development
team deal differently with binary distributions? So far I have not seen
one single convincing argument from you or others that are so interested
in binaries but are afraid to dip a toe in the water.

3. It was a user effort that brought about the documentation for other
users to build binaries for all platforms [1]. And the 0.7.0 Windows
installer [2] was (my) user effort as well. Without users contributing,
*nothing* happens.

4. A member of the development team *may* also be a user of a specific
platform. He *might* produce binaries at some point, but this does not
imply commitment or obligation to produce, maintain, distribute, neither
in the present nor in the future; neither for him nor for the rest of
the development team.

5. *Nobody* can tell anybody what to do with their time. If you think
something is not being done as it should be; and you feel that your
critique goes unheard, you are free to
a) do it yourself
b) ask nicely once or twice
c) hire somebody to do it

and if nobody (including you) does it, then probably it is not important
enough (not even to you). If you are not ready to invest your resources
to do this, how can you expect that others do?

I have stated my *personal* opinion about the currently circulated
Windows installer at [3]. Note that it is my *personal* opinion on my
*personal* blog. I have not imposed my opinion on the project, nor on
Allard, nor on Windows users. His stuff is up there on Sourceforge as
official download despite my opinion, and we agree to disagree.

When I make changes to the project, I put forward a motion and it is
decided by consensus or by majority. My voice is one of many.

You can discuss your wishful thinking as long as you want. Criticizing
is easier than doing. Critique is welcome when it brings new findings to
the table. The repetition, again and again, of the same old stale wish
is annoying; and the judgment by those who have not even tried to do
something is worth exactly as much as they have done.

I personally see no reason to invest my resources in a Windows installer
at this time. I think it is something important to have, and it will
come in due time. Other things have higher priority for me at the
moment. If others think differently, they can invest their resources to
what they think is their highest priority.

The beauty of Open Source is that there is no boss. I don't need to find
here the same constraints that I find when I am paid to do something for
a customer or for a boss in a corporate environment. When I am hired for
money I'll bend over; be a prostitute; play the politics. If asked to do
something that I deem futile, I'll do it with a smile and won't even
utter my opinion. That's called "day-job".

I am here on my "free-time", which is the opposite of "day-job". Here I
enjoy the freedom of doing what I want, when I want, how I want.

Here I enjoy being a "social learner". Learning from more experienced
others and passing on to less experienced new comers.

In the "free-time" context, if my byproduct is helpful to others, good
for them. If it is not, they will have to find other ways to satisfy
their wants/needs.

In the "day-job" context is the other way around. If I like what I'm
doing, good for me. If not, I'll have to find other ways to happiness,
because customer satisfaction and following the boss' orders are what
counts there.

There, not here.

Yuv

[0] http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wwp/message/11790
[1]
http://wiki.panotools.org/Development_of_Open_Source_tools#Supported_Platforms
[2]
http://hugin.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/hugin/hugin/trunk/platforms/windows/installer/
[3]
http://panospace.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/hugin-2009-2-0-windows-installer/

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[namklim]

On Nov 10, 4:46 am, Yuval Levy <goo...@...> wrote:

> the following discussion was at [0] where it is off topic. It is
> important here, hence the continuation:
>
> --- In w...@..., "Erik Krause" <erik.krause@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > On Saturday, November 07, 2009 at 22:37, yuval_levy wrote:
>  >
>  > > my opinion about that specific installer:
>  > >
>  > >http://panospace.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/hugin-2009-2-0-windows-inst...
>  >
>  > I think hugin distribution politics is far from the high quality of
>  > the software.
>
> Erik, If you think you can do better, go ahead and do it. You have all
> the necessary information, tools, and accesses to distribute Hugin
> differently.
>
>

From a Windows user viewpoint I agree with Erik; the Win binary
distribution is a mess.

If you look at the number of downloads for v 0.7 then the Win
downloads (224,774) are many more than the Mac (73,199) downloads. I
don't think you can expect all those Win users to compile Hugin
themselves. Very few would have the skills to do so. Win users just
expect to have to download, then to run an installer and then to get
on with using the software.

And as you've pointed out on Panospace there is confusion about what
is being included in releases. There is a need for strict control. I
think they may be several different versions of 0.8 available for
download from different sources which may or may not be the same. It
will eventually become a nightmare if users start asking why something
doesn't work and another says it does for the same apparent version.

I'm not sure the change to more versions (2009-x) appearing more
quickly is helping. A version every three or six months would seem to
be more reasonable if the resources are not available to complete the
whole release process in a systematic manner more frequently.

To me, GIMP seems much more professional in distribution of binaries.

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[namklim]

On Nov 10, 4:46 am, Yuval Levy <goo...@...> wrote:

> the following discussion was at [0] where it is off topic. It is
> important here, hence the continuation:
>
> --- In w...@..., "Erik Krause" <erik.krause@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > On Saturday, November 07, 2009 at 22:37, yuval_levy wrote:
>  >
>  > > my opinion about that specific installer:
>  > >
>  > >http://panospace.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/hugin-2009-2-0-windows-inst...
>  >
>  > I think hugin distribution politics is far from the high quality of
>  > the software.
>
> Erik, If you think you can do better, go ahead and do it. You have all
> the necessary information, tools, and accesses to distribute Hugin
> differently.
>
>

From a Windows user viewpoint I agree with Erik; the Win binary
distribution is a mess.

If you look at the number of downloads for v 0.7 then the Win
downloads (224,774) are many more than the Mac (73,199) downloads. I
don't think you can expect all those Win users to compile Hugin
themselves. Very few would have the skills to do so. Win users just
expect to have to download, then to run an installer and then to get
on with using the software.

And as you've pointed out on Panospace there is confusion about what
is being included in releases. There is a need for strict control. I
think they may be several different versions of 0.8 available for
download from different sources which may or may not be the same. It
will eventually become a nightmare if users start asking why something
doesn't work and another says it does for the same apparent version.

I'm not sure the change to more versions (2009-x) appearing more
quickly is helping. A version every three or six months would seem to
be more reasonable if the resources are not available to complete the
whole release process in a systematic manner more frequently.

To me, GIMP seems much more professional in distribution of binaries.

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[Yuval Levy-6]

namklim wrote:
> From a Windows user viewpoint I agree with Erik; the Win binary
> distribution is a mess.

I don't disagree with the qualification of the Win binary distribution.
I disagree with the judgment of what the developers team does.


> If you look at the number of downloads for v 0.7 then the Win
> downloads (224,774) are many more than the Mac (73,199) downloads. I
> don't think you can expect all those Win users to compile Hugin
> themselves. Very few would have the skills to do so. Win users just
> expect to have to download, then to run an installer and then to get
> on with using the software.

Agree that very few would have the skill to compile an installer. If
there is one in 73,199 that's just enough. Mac users have Harry (and a
few more that help him along). Statistically, shouldn't there be about
three in 224,774 that can do that?

Why do Win users like Erik (and apparently yourself) criticize the
developers? they should criticize those three Win power users amongst
themselves. If you look at the archives of this list, you will find more
than three Win users who in the past twelve months have obviously built
Hugin, often with answers/help from the developers. Ask them why they
don't release the result of their work in the way that you'd like it.

Why should Win users be different than Mac users? or Linux users? *all*
users just *wish* (*expecting* is arrogant in an Open Source context) to
download/install a binary and get on with using the software. The
difference is that 0.001%  of Mac users raise up to the task. That's
enough to give all Mac users what they wish for. Ask Windows users why
nobody of them raise up to the task?


> And as you've pointed out on Panospace there is confusion about what
> is being included in releases. There is a need for strict control.

Control and Free software don't go well together.

Ultimate responsibility is with the user: know what you download and
from whom.


> will eventually become a nightmare if users start asking why something
> doesn't work and another says it does for the same apparent version.

 From a developer perspective, Windows users are a nightmare anyway.
Most bug reports are incomplete. Since we no longer accept anonymous
ones, we get at least the chance to help them complete the bug reports.

In the end, most problems are on the user side, and very seldom a
problem of the installed binary.


> To me, GIMP seems much more professional in distribution of binaries.

<sarcasm>then what are you doing here? go there and use GIMP. Or ask the
GIMP team to release Hugin for you.</sarcasm>

Seriously - from [0]

"This site, www.gimp.org, only distributes the GIMP source code (the
building blocks). You can however download executable versions from the
following site:"

which points to [1] - a different project.

If you want to start [2], you have my blessing.

Yuv


[0] http://www.gimp.org/windows/
[1] http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/
[2] http://hugin-win.sourceforge.net/



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[Erik Krause]

Yuval Levy wrote:

> Erik, If you think you can do better, go ahead and do it. You have all
> the necessary information, tools, and accesses to distribute Hugin
> differently.
>
> Frankly I am annoyed. I know we have *different* views. I respect your
> opinion. I do not accept your qualitative judgment. Have you done
> anything better?

No. Why should I? Did you do anything better? You had only critics for
the recent windows distribution:
http://panospace.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/hugin-2009-2-0-windows-installer/
In my opinion this does far more harm to the hugin project than my
criticism (which only states a fact BTW). What you write in your blog
should be discussed internally and not mentioned in a public place where
someone asks for a stitcher recommendation.

How comes, that you criticize me for pointing out an insufficiency?
Reporting bugs should be honored not flamed like you do on me.

> Have you done anything at all other than criticizing?

No critics allowed? Fear of facts? Hugin is superb. The fact that I had
to wait for a year for a recent hugin distribution is annoying. And your
behavior against anyone who dares to say anything about hugin
distribution is more than annoying, it discredits the whole project.

[...]

For the rest of your sermon: Read again what I wrote: I didn't demand
anything, I didn't tell anyone what to do or what not. I even don't want
hugin for me. I support the hugin project with part of my time since I
think it's a good thing to support free software. But you don't make it
easy for me (and for others) to keep up this sympathy. And I fear others
aren't as patient as me.

Now look at what you did in your blog: You demanded something, you asked
for others time. Why do you measure yourself by different goals?

In other words and if you still didn't get it: I think you distract
people from using or even trying hugin.

And BTW.: I won't read any longish reply to that. If it is as short as
"I'm sorry", I will...

best regards
--
Erik Krause
http://www.erik-krause.de

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[Yuval Levy-6]

Erik Krause wrote:
> In other words and if you still didn't get it: I think you distract
> people from using or even trying hugin.

maybe he's right?

good bye everybody, have fun with your new leader Erik.

Yuv

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[allard-3]

C'mon guys. Spend your energy on solving bugs or something.

On Nov 10, 7:27 pm, Yuval Levy <goo...@...> wrote:
> Erik Krause wrote:
> > In other words and if you still didn't get it: I think you distract
> > people from using or even trying hugin.
>
> maybe he's right?
>
> good bye everybody, have fun with your new leader Erik.
>
> Yuv
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[anbue]

Thanks again, Allard.

On 11 Nov., 08:20, allard <a...@...> wrote:
> C'mon guys. Spend your energy on solving bugs or something.

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[Ryan Johnson-8]

Hi all,

On Nov 11, 10:32 am, anbue <andreasbuett...@...> wrote:
> Thanks again, Allard.
++

<short-version>
- It's a royal pain in the neck to build hugin for Windows (far worse
than for Linux, it seems)
- It might be worth "subsidizing" a bit more the non-techie artists
out there who use Windows... we're talking about creating art here,
not bootstrapping gcc or compiling the linux kernel. Like it or not,
they need a tool, not a compilation project.
- Can we sidestep patent issues by putting a click-though agreement
between users and the CP generator, like people do for export
restrictions?
</short-version>

Long version follows...

For the record (as one who has spent 100+ hours trying to build
hugin), I didn't release an installer for very simple reasons:
1. I have no clue how, and no access to MSVC ;). I did put up a .zip
of my cygming build, though (thanks to yuv and rick for all the help).
2. I don't have access to a decent graphics card to debug the GPU
problems Rick found in nona
3. "Imperfect" or not, allard's 2009.2 installer beats the pants off
the 0.7 version I was using before, and also beats my cygming build
even ignoring GPU issues. If a static cygming build of enblend-4.0
would help him out I'm all ears.
4. Compiling hugin sounded like a good idea about 100 hours of labor
ago, but at this point I've spent far longer trying to build hugin
than went into every panorama I've ever stitched -- combined.

I know somebody said that it's a show-stopper if the MSVC build
breaks, but the dearth of installers, the embarrassing win32 wiki
page, and my (limited) experience suggests that windows is not a first-
class platform. It should at least be possible to at least generate a
working executable out of the box. Granted, though, many of the
problems I ran into are actually with hugin's dependencies...

As for the importance of having a windows installer, the people who
benefit most from hugin are the *artists* and *photographers* out
there, and they don't necessarily have -- let alone know how to use --
a compiler. My brother, the photographer/cartoonist/law-student who
loves hugin, would be helpless without folks like Allard. And, no,
he's not likely to switch to linux before the heat death of the
universe.

Re patent issues: the separate CP download is definitely good (I'd
favor a stand-alone installer rather than "with" and "without"
versions of hugin). We might further avoid liability by forcing the
user to click a button saying "those patent restrictions don't apply
to me" before downloading. Kind of like the export restrictions for
encryption. IANAL, but IMO the hugin project does not make any
commercial use of the encumbered software (no sales, no support,
nothin'); the sift algorithm, at least says explicitly that non-
commercial use is OK every time it runs; and a click-through agreement
would make clear that we don't encourage infringement by others.

Finally, as far as cygming goes, the reason I favored it is:
1. It follows the development cycle most hugin developers seem to use
2. Anybody can install cygwin, for free. I hear it's even possible to
set up a mingw32 cross-compiler on linux
3. The "One Makefile to rule them all" I developed is a first step
toward automated building/testing/packaging

Unfortunately, I don't have time or means to carry it any further...
hugin's a great tool, though, so I hope somebody can.

$0.02
Ryan

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[Bart van Andel]

On 11 nov, 13:05, Ryan <scov...@...> wrote:
> 2. Anybody can install cygwin, for free. I hear it's even possible to
> set up a mingw32 cross-compiler on linux

I'm actually trying to get this working. Currently I have an Ubuntu
9.04 installation inside VirtualBox (on Windows host), and I'm using
mingw-cross-env [0, 1] as a cross build chain. One of the policies of
mingw-cross-env is to create static libs when possible, thereby
avoiding DLL hell (quote: "creates libraries to be linked statically,
no DLL hell"). Just like the point of view of some builders on the
Hugin block.

Before being able to compile Hugin, first the dependencies have to be
cross-compiled. The setup of mingw-cross-env makes this pretty easy: a
small script called <name-of-library>.mk has to be created with some
variables pointing to download location and build instructions (with
proper arguments to create cross-compiled executables).

So far I've successfully contributed libplot to the cross-build chain.
When all necessary dependencies are built, I'll see into building
Hugin itself. If anybody else wants to contribute by helping build the
dependencies, for example, please do! More detailed instructions can
be found at [0]. Volker (the mingw-cross-env general hero) can be
contacted using the project mailing list at [2], or by email (see
bottom of [2] for the address).

If this approach is successfull, it will become easier to keep the
Windows builds in line with the Linux (and OSX) build, since in theory
they can be built on the same machine as the Linux build. I hope the
speed of the cross-build will be comparable to the MSVC build...


> 3. The "One Makefile to rule them all" I developed is a first step
> toward automated building/testing/packaging

I'll keep that one in mind for the cross-build (if I need it)!


> Unfortunately, I don't have time or means to carry it any further...
> hugin's a great tool, though, so I hope somebody can.

It sure is. I'm spending more time on Hugin than I should, really, but
it's worth it!

[0] http://www.nongnu.org/mingw-cross-env/
[1] http://hg.savannah.gnu.org/hgweb/mingw-cross-env/
[2] http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/mingw-cross-env-list

--
Bart
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[Ryan Johnson-8]

On Nov 11, 1:49 pm, Bart van Andel <bavanan...@...> wrote:

> Before being able to compile Hugin, first the dependencies have to be
> cross-compiled. The setup of mingw-cross-env makes this pretty easy: a
> small script called <name-of-library>.mk has to be created with some
> variables pointing to download location and build instructions (with
> proper arguments to create cross-compiled executables).
>
> So far I've successfully contributed libplot to the cross-build chain.
> When all necessary dependencies are built, I'll see into building
> Hugin itself. If anybody else wants to contribute by helping build the
> dependencies, for example, please do! More detailed instructions can
> be found at [0]. Volker (the mingw-cross-env general hero) can be
> contacted using the project mailing list at [2], or by email (see
> bottom of [2] for the address).

You might take a peek at the build files I uploaded [0], because they
include the patches and configuration options used to compile hugin
and its assorted dependencies (what is libplot, btw?).

As for comparing the compilations, I didn't notice any particular
speed difference, but I think the debug and exception handling extras
which gcc outputs are significantly more verbose than MSVC, with the
result that binaries are bigger. Either that, or the MS installer is
really good at compressing...

[0] http://hugin.panotools.org/testing/hugin/hugin-2009.4.0_rc2-win32-cygming-build.tar.gz

Regards,
Ryan
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[Stefan Peter-4]

Bart van Andel schrieb:
> On 11 nov, 13:05, Ryan <scov...@...> wrote:
>> 2. Anybody can install cygwin, for free. I hear it's even possible to
>> set up a mingw32 cross-compiler on linux
>
> I'm actually trying to get this working.
...

> If anybody else wants to contribute by helping build the
> dependencies, for example, please do!

I would like to participate here. Is there a homepage or a repository
where your current work is accessible?

With kind regards

Stefan Peter



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[Bart van Andel]

> You might take a peek at the build files I uploaded [0], because they
> include the patches and configuration options used to compile hugin
> and its assorted dependencies (what is libplot, btw?).

I will. As far as I can see, most patches are for libraries which are
already part of mingw-cross-env (see [1]), so I'm not sure if I'll
really need them. And it's plotutils (not libplot, whoops), which
provides libxmi, one of the dependencies.


> As for comparing the compilations, I didn't notice any particular
> speed difference, but I think the debug and exception handling extras
> which gcc outputs are significantly more verbose than MSVC, with the
> result that binaries are bigger. Either that, or the MS installer is
> really good at compressing...

Ok, I'll just see.


> [0]http://hugin.panotools.org/testing/hugin/hugin-2009.4.0_rc2-win32-cyg...

[1] http://www.nongnu.org/mingw-cross-env/#packages

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Bart
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[Bart van Andel]

> > If anybody else wants to contribute by helping build the
> > dependencies, for example, please do!
>
> I would like to participate here. Is there a homepage or a repository
> where your current work is accessible?

Easiest thing to do: pull directly out of mingw-cross-env repository
(assuming you want install it in /opt/mingw-cross-env):
$ cd /opt
$ hg clone http://hg.savannah.nongnu.org/hgweb/mingw-cross-env mingw-
cross-env

So far I've only contributed plotutils (including libxmi), and this is
in the repository now, so you'll have my copy as well.

If you don't have mercurial, you can install it using "sudo apt-get
install mercurial" (or with another package manager).


To get you started:
- First, compile the cross build package. You won't need all of it, so
just do the following:
$ cd /opt/mingw-cross-env
$ make gcc
- For any other required package, you can either execute "make
<package>" or just get the dependencies right (see below). In fact if
you include gcc as a dependency (you should), this will be built
automatically as well.
- Choose a dependency to work on (I assume "lcms" for this example).
- Create a copy of one of the .mk files in the mingw-cross-env/src
directory (lcms is hosted on sourceforge, so pick one of the other
sourceforge-hosted packages):
$ cd /opt/mingw-cross-env
$ cp src/glew.mk src/lcms.mk
- Edit the newly created .mk file. Look at the other .mk files to see
how things are done.


Every .mk file basically has three sections:
- At the top, some variables are defined which define the package
name, general download url, dependencies, and version information. The
checksum will be autogenerated so don't bother editing it.
- Function to retrieve the latest version from the web.
- Function to actually build the package.


I suggest first getting the retrieve function to work. Although this
obviously isn't the most crucual part, it helps understanding the
mingw-cross-env. This cross-building setup is really neatly setup, so
if you get this part working correctly, for new versions, nothing
serious has to be edited to the .mk file.

To test if the retrieve function works correctly (and download the
package automatically if it does), you can do the following:
$ cd /opt/mingw-cross-env
$ make update-checksum-lcms

This automatically checks for the newest version, and if it is found,
it will be downloaded, and the checksum will be added to the .mk file.
This is basically what I did.


The next step will be the actual compiling. Again, check out other .mk
files for a general idea on how this works. Then, you'll have to find
out which options to apply for your chosen dependency package. If
you're lucky, not a lot of changes are needed (ideally none to the
source files). If you're not, you might need to create some patches.
'Make'ing your package (in this case, lcms) works like this:
$ cd /opt/mingw-cross-env
$ make lcms

Note that everytime you call this "make lcms", the downloaded source
archive will be extracted after deleting any previously compiled
content. So don't forget to save any patches to a different folder (I
just copied my files to my home folder). The .mk files will only be
auto-filled with version information, no other changes will be a
applied, so you're safe here. But just to make sure, make backups of
your files here as well.

During building, a log file will be created in the mingw-cross-env/usr
directory, named log-<package>, e.g. log-lcms. You can examine out
this file to get it working. For some packages there is information
available on cross-building, just search for "cross building lcms" for
example.


This should get you started. If you have any questions, you can of
course post them here (note that I just started using this cross-build
chain last week), or on the mingw-cross-env mailing list I mentioned
earlier, or by contacting Volker.

Good luck!

--
Bart
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[T. Modes]

> - It's a royal pain in the neck to build hugin for Windows (far worse
> than for Linux, it seems)

What's so complicated?
The most necessary libraries can be downloaded in pre-compiled form in
the SDK (http://wiki.panotools.org/Build_Hugin_for_Windows_with_SDK).
What's missing for current hugin version is glut. A precompiled glut
library for hugin can found here (http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-
ptx/msg/5bfc12ee00c5ac3c)
Download both packages and unzip a new folder. Then follow the
instruction on the wiki (skip the step of compiling enblend, for
enblend there are more libraries necessary. For a first try you can
use the precompiled version from sourceforge):
Run CMake -> open hugin.sln -> compile -> install (-> maybe build
installer)
I find that's very easy.

>1. It follows the development cycle most hugin developers seem to use
The cmake build works fine on windows. It's also up to date.

>2. Anybody can install cygwin, for free. I hear it's even possible to
>set up a mingw32 cross-compiler on linux
Anybody can also install the Visual C++ Express Edition, this works.
(see wiki instructions).

>3. The "One Makefile to rule them all" I developed is a first step
> toward automated building/testing/packaging

There are also some version of the automated cmake-build and installer
creation on the list (e.g. http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx/msg/b3aff5888a9a2b87).
Why invent the wheel twice? It would be better to bundle the force for
one working version and not to split into several different ways to
get the similar results.

Thomas
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[Bart van Andel]

> - Choose a dependency to work on (I assume "lcms" for this example).

Note: I've just built lcms myself, so no need to work this one out
anymore. I've just emailed it to Volker, so I expect it will be added
to mingw-cross-env soon.
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[Bart van Andel]

Built glut (actually, freeglut) as well, just now. Mail is underway to
Volker. So far he's been rather quick in replying, so I suspect it
won't take long before both lcms and freeglut will be integrated.

--
Bart


On 11 nov, 17:34, Bart van Andel <bavanan...@...> wrote:
> > - Choose a dependency to work on (I assume "lcms" for this example).
>
> Note: I've just built lcms myself, so no need to work this one out
> anymore. I've just emailed it to Volker, so I expect it will be added
> to mingw-cross-env soon.
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[Bart van Andel]

> Easiest thing to do: pull directly out of mingw-cross-env repository
> (assuming you want install it in /opt/mingw-cross-env):
> $ cd /opt
> $ hg clone http://hg.savannah.nongnu.org/hgweb/mingw-cross-envmingw-
> cross-env

Forgot to mention: there are some dependencies... More on this here:
http://www.nongnu.org/mingw-cross-env/#requirements

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Bart
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[Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net]

> Why should Windows be treated any different?


ROTFL

because 90% of the people (and from them, people who might also become
DEVELOPERS of hugin) are there.

can it really get any simpler than that?

:-)

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[Jeffrey Martin | 360Cities.net]

This reminds me of the scene in Fawlty Towers, when Basil is trying to
have a "fire drill".

The burglar alarm goes off by mistake. And people think it's the fire
drill which starts in a few minutes. They spend so much time arguing
about it, that the fire drill is late. Meanwhile, Manuel accidentally
starts a fire, but Basil doesn't believe him, and locks him in a
burning room.




All the time spent arguing about how lazy and useless people are (i'm
not naming any names here), the windows version could have been
compiled. Numerous times.



Jeffrey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn15BUFBvu8

On Nov 11, 4:27 am, Yuval Levy <goo...@...> wrote:
> Erik Krause wrote:
> > In other words and if you still didn't get it: I think you distract
> > people from using or even trying hugin.
>
> maybe he's right?
>
> good bye everybody, have fun with your new leader Erik.
>
> Yuv

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