bluetooth gps

[Roger Lees]

I am a long time (since windows 3.1) Windows user but for the last year
I have been using Ubuntu as a dual boot.  I am impressed with Ubuntu.  I
have tried various Linux flavours over the years, and Ubuntu is the
first system which I find easy to use.  I recently bought a Bluetooth
GPS receiver and used it with Navigator 8 on Windows.  It worked
straight away.  I downloaded GPSdrive, and it doesn't recognise my GPS
receiver.  I think I know why after checking around the forums.  The
program uses gpsd, and is looking for a receiver via USB, which it
cannot see.  The answer I discover is to modify files in the Bluetooth
directory.  Now, I can probably do that, but in order to do so I am
going to have to learn a bit about how Linux works because not only
don't I know how to find the relevant files, I don't know how to get at
the command line.  I know all the Linux buffs will be sucking their
teeth and dredging up their most sarcastic remarks, but it has been a
long time since I had to alter a Windows program to get it to work.
They just do, and if they don't there is always another one that will.
I am too old (61) to learn how to tweak Ubuntu programs.  GPSdrive looks
like a good program.  There is another Linux program on Ubuntu,
TangoGPS, which also looks like a lot of fun to use with exactly the
same problem.  I realise that all of these programs are free and
therefore it is pointless complaining and/or moaning about the efforts
of people who are giving their skills and time for nothing, but if Linux
and Open Source programs are going to eventually replace Microsoft (and
I hope they do) they need to work for people like me who don't want to
indulge in programming at however simple a level to get them started.
After all, you don't expect to have to fiddle with your car's engine
before you can drive it away.  Or should you?  Which is a very long way
round asking if GPSdrive (or gpsd) could be amended to include Bluetooth
GPS receivers.  Please.

Incidentally, it occurs to me that since GPS receivers know where they
are, then if Navigation programs were 'turned around' people could use
their GPS to draw maps rather than the other way around.  And if we all
did that, maps wouldn't go out of date.  But perhaps that has already
been thought of, and it's how maps get drawn.  Sorry I mentioned it.

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[Guenther Meyer]

Am Mittwoch 21 Oktober 2009 21:26:02 schrieb Roger Lees:

> I am a long time (since windows 3.1) Windows user but for the last year
> I have been using Ubuntu as a dual boot.  I am impressed with Ubuntu.  I
> have tried various Linux flavours over the years, and Ubuntu is the
> first system which I find easy to use.  I recently bought a Bluetooth
> GPS receiver and used it with Navigator 8 on Windows.  It worked
> straight away.  I downloaded GPSdrive, and it doesn't recognise my GPS
> receiver.  I think I know why after checking around the forums.  The
> program uses gpsd, and is looking for a receiver via USB, which it
> cannot see.  The answer I discover is to modify files in the Bluetooth
> directory.  Now, I can probably do that, but in order to do so I am
> going to have to learn a bit about how Linux works because not only
> don't I know how to find the relevant files, I don't know how to get at
> the command line.  I know all the Linux buffs will be sucking their
> teeth and dredging up their most sarcastic remarks, but it has been a
> long time since I had to alter a Windows program to get it to work.
> They just do, and if they don't there is always another one that will.
> I am too old (61) to learn how to tweak Ubuntu programs.  GPSdrive looks
> like a good program.  There is another Linux program on Ubuntu,
> TangoGPS, which also looks like a lot of fun to use with exactly the
> same problem.  I realise that all of these programs are free and
> therefore it is pointless complaining and/or moaning about the efforts
> of people who are giving their skills and time for nothing, but if Linux
> and Open Source programs are going to eventually replace Microsoft (and
> I hope they do) they need to work for people like me who don't want to
> indulge in programming at however simple a level to get them started.
> After all, you don't expect to have to fiddle with your car's engine
> before you can drive it away.  Or should you?  Which is a very long way
> round asking if GPSdrive (or gpsd) could be amended to include Bluetooth
> GPS receivers.  Please.
>

all devices supported by gpsd should be usable with GpsDrive.

gpsd is using a serial connection to talk to the devices; usb receivers
usually create such a virtual serial port automatically when they are
connected, so most should work right out of the box.
bluetooth devices use the same system, but they have to be "connected" with
your system first to provide this serial port.
I don't know the current state of ubuntu regarding bluetooth gpsd receivers,
but in the past there had to be done some simple manual work to get it
working.
ubuntu has some nice sources for howtos, recipes and asking questions like
that (like ubuntuforums.org or wiki.ubuntu.com).
 just use your favourite search engine and you may find what you need.


> Incidentally, it occurs to me that since GPS receivers know where they
> are, then if Navigation programs were 'turned around' people could use
> their GPS to draw maps rather than the other way around.  And if we all
> did that, maps wouldn't go out of date.  But perhaps that has already
> been thought of, and it's how maps get drawn.  Sorry I mentioned it.
>
Do you know http://www.openstreetmap.org ?
There are some programs for drawing maps, but the focus of GpsDrive is USING
maps rather than creating them; although it CAN be used to gather data for map
creation...
We try to keep GpsDrive as simple as possible but still providing some useful
features - adding mapping functions would make it way more complex.

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[Charles Curley]

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:26:02 +0100
Roger Lees <leesroger@...> wrote:

> I am a long time (since windows 3.1) Windows user but for the last
> year I have been using Ubuntu as a dual boot.  I am impressed with
> Ubuntu.  I have tried various Linux flavours over the years, and
> Ubuntu is the first system which I find easy to use.

That is indeed the point of Ubuntu. It is good to hear they are
succeeding.

> I recently bought a Bluetooth GPS receiver

Which one? Make and model number will help us to diagnose.

> and used it with Navigator 8 on Windows.  It worked straight away.
> I downloaded GPSdrive, and it doesn't recognise my GPS receiver.  I
> think I know why after checking around the forums.  The program uses
> gpsd,

Right. gpsd has to work before gpsdrive can use your GPS receiver.

> and is
> looking for a receiver via USB, which it cannot see.  

gpsd, not gpsdrive, is looking for a GPS receiver.

> The answer I
> discover is to modify files in the Bluetooth directory.  Now, I can
> probably do that, but in order to do so I am going to have to learn
> a bit about how Linux works because not only don't I know how to
> find the relevant files, I don't know how to get at the command
> line.  

Maybe, maybe not. I expect someone associated with gpsd has already
hit this problem, possibly with your receiver. So the gpsd web page
and list may be your best bet. I'd start with the Compatible Hardware
list, http://gpsd.berlios.de/hardware.html If you don't find something
there, join the gpsd-users list and ask. Include the manufacturer and
model number.

> I know all the Linux buffs will be sucking their teeth and
> dredging up their most sarcastic remarks, but it has been a long
> time since I had to alter a Windows program to get it to work. They
> just do, and if they don't there is always another one that will. I
> am too old (61) to learn how to tweak Ubuntu programs.

Odd. I'm 60 and learn and tweak Ubuntu programs all the time. :-)

> GPSdrive looks like a good program.  There is another Linux program
> on Ubuntu, TangoGPS, which also looks like a lot of fun to use with
> exactly the same problem.

It is a good program; I use it also.

> I realise that all of these programs are
> free and therefore it is pointless complaining and/or moaning about
> the efforts of people who are giving their skills and time for
> nothing, but if Linux and Open Source programs are going to
> eventually replace Microsoft (and I hope they do) they need to work
> for people like me who don't want to indulge in programming at
> however simple a level to get them started.  After all, you don't
> expect to have to fiddle with your car's engine before you can drive
> it away.  Or should you?  Which is a very long way round asking if
> GPSdrive (or gpsd) could be amended to include Bluetooth GPS
> receivers.  Please.

The answer to that lies with the gpsd developers, not here. Feel free
to ask them.

However, don't give them the lecture on usability. You aren't the only
person to deliver it. But it grates on the developers to hear it from
someone who hasn't yet contributed. Many of us who have contributed have
made the same point.

Also, you can contribute. If there is no ready documentation on how to
do what you want, then please make detailed notes as you go
along. When you get it working, please write it up and contribute it
back to the gpsd folks. They'll appreciate. And some developer might
automate it, which will make it much easier for the next person.

Having a Linux newbie write this up will help future Linux newbies
because you'll include details we old hands will ignore because
"everybody knows that". So please do it if necessary. Who knows, you
might decide you like it, and you can do it again tomorrow.


>
> Incidentally, it occurs to me that since GPS receivers know where they
> are, then if Navigation programs were 'turned around' people could use
> their GPS to draw maps rather than the other way around.  And if we
> all did that, maps wouldn't go out of date.  But perhaps that has
> already been thought of, and it's how maps get drawn.  Sorry I
> mentioned it.

Yep. See the Open Street Map project.



--

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Looking for fine software       \ /    Respect for open standards
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On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Roger Lees <leesroger@...> wrote:

> I recently bought a Bluetooth
> GPS receiver and used it with Navigator 8 on Windows.  It worked
> straight away.  I downloaded GPSdrive, and it doesn't recognise my GPS
> receiver.  I think I know why after checking around the forums.  The
> program uses gpsd, and is looking for a receiver via USB, which it
> cannot see.  The answer I discover is to modify files in the Bluetooth
> directory.  Now, I can probably do that, but in order to do so I am
> going to have to learn a bit about how Linux works because not only
> don't I know how to find the relevant files, I don't know how to get at
> the command line.  I know all the Linux buffs will be sucking their
> teeth and dredging up their most sarcastic remarks, but it has been a
> long time since I had to alter a Windows program to get it to work.
> They just do, and if they don't there is always another one that will.
> I am too old (61) to learn how to tweak Ubuntu programs.  GPSdrive looks
> like a good program.  There is another Linux program on Ubuntu,
> TangoGPS, which also looks like a lot of fun to use with exactly the
> same problem.  I realise that all of these programs are free and
> therefore it is pointless complaining and/or moaning about the efforts
> of people who are giving their skills and time for nothing, but if Linux
> and Open Source programs are going to eventually replace Microsoft (and
> I hope they do) they need to work for people like me who don't want to
> indulge in programming at however simple a level to get them started.
> After all, you don't expect to have to fiddle with your car's engine
> before you can drive it away.  Or should you?  Which is a very long way
> round asking if GPSdrive (or gpsd) could be amended to include Bluetooth
> GPS receivers.  Please.

As other posters have said, gpsd is responsible for connecting to your
GPS, and then all programs which need to access it (such as gpsdrive)
can just connect to gpsd.
The way bluetooth GPS receivers generally work is that they show up as
a bluetooth serial port. The first step, then, is to connect to this.
Assuming your bluetooth adapter is working properly, you should be
able to run
$ hcitool inq
to scan for all available bluetooth devices. From this copy the MAC
address of your GPS receiver (a MAC address looks something like
01:23:45:67:89:ab), and run a command like this (substituting the
correct MAC address):
$ rfcomm connect 0 01:23:45:67:89:ab
That will connect to your GPS receiver and call the serial port
/dev/rfcomm0. You can then start gpsd on this serial port as usual:
$ gpsd /dev/rfcomm0
And after all that, assuming there are no errors, start GPSdrive and
it should connect to gpsd and get your fix.

I agree that it would be nice if GPSdrive had a button to
automatically detect bluetooth GPSes, connect to them and start gpsd.


--
Andrew Walbran
website: http://q.geek.nz/
blog: http://qwandor.wordpress.com/
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[Guenther Meyer]

Am Mittwoch 21 Oktober 2009 22:49:17 schrieb Andrew Walbran:
> I agree that it would be nice if GPSdrive had a button to
> automatically detect bluetooth GPSes, connect to them and start gpsd.
>
I think something like that would be better as separate application (maybe
packaged with gpsd), so all applications using gps can benefit from that
feature.
a good example is the maemo platform:
gpsdrive just connects to the gps service and the gps specific settings like
internal/external gps, agps... are configured in the system preferences of the
N810.
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[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:49:17 +1300
Andrew Walbran <qwandor@...> wrote:

> The way bluetooth GPS receivers generally work is that they show up as
> a bluetooth serial port. The first step, then, is to connect to this.
> Assuming your bluetooth adapter is working properly, you should be
> able to run
> $ hcitool inq
> to scan for all available bluetooth devices. From this copy the MAC
> address of your GPS receiver (a MAC address looks something like
> 01:23:45:67:89:ab), and run a command like this (substituting the
> correct MAC address):
> $ rfcomm connect 0 01:23:45:67:89:ab
> That will connect to your GPS receiver and call the serial port
> /dev/rfcomm0. You can then start gpsd on this serial port as usual:
> $ gpsd /dev/rfcomm0
> And after all that, assuming there are no errors, start GPSdrive and
> it should connect to gpsd and get your fix.

I see a file, gpsdrive-trunk/Documentation/ README.Bluetooth, which has
a different procedure for doing this. I also see
gpsdrive-trunk/scripts/gpsd-connect-bluetooth.sh, which looks promising.

As I don't have any Bluetooth peripherals I can't comment on which, if
any, is preferable.

--

Charles Curley                  /"\    ASCII Ribbon Campaign
Looking for fine software       \ /    Respect for open standards
and/or writing?                  X     No HTML/RTF in email
http://www.charlescurley.com    / \    No M$ Word docs in email

Key fingerprint = CE5C 6645 A45A 64E4 94C0  809C FFF6 4C48 4ECD DFDB
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