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blurry fonts (again)
by celejar
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Hi,
*Sigh* Here we go again ... (http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2008/07/msg00692.html) Files containing Hebrew that I print to PDF with Iceweasel's 'Print to File' option come out badly mangled: Hebrew Wikipedia homepage: http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A2%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%93_%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%A9%D7%99 My PDF: http://lizzie.freehostia.com/he.wiki.pdf ~$ pdffonts he.wiki.pdf name type emb sub uni object ID ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- --------- FrankRuehlCLM Type 1 yes no yes 5 0 FrankRuehlCLM Type 1 yes no yes 7 0 BitstreamVeraSerif CID TrueType yes no yes 37 0 A screenshot of what that PDF looks like on my system: http://lizzie.freehostia.com/he.wiki.jpg Florian very patiently troubleshot with me last time, eventually finding the solution, so I'm hoping that he has some more wizardry on tap ... Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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Re: blurry fonts (again)
by Florian Kulzer-3
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On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 09:55:28 -0500, Celejar wrote:
> Hi, > > *Sigh* Here we go again ... (http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2008/07/msg00692.html) > > Files containing Hebrew that I print to PDF with Iceweasel's 'Print to > File' option come out badly mangled: > > Hebrew Wikipedia homepage: > > http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A2%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%93_%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%A9%D7%99 > > My PDF: > > http://lizzie.freehostia.com/he.wiki.pdf When I use "Print to File" on this page then I get this PDF: http://rapidshare.com/files/302522581/he-wiki-iceweasel.pdf.html > ~$ pdffonts he.wiki.pdf > name type emb sub uni object ID > ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- --------- > FrankRuehlCLM Type 1 yes no yes 5 0 > FrankRuehlCLM Type 1 yes no yes 7 0 > BitstreamVeraSerif CID TrueType yes no yes 37 0 My font information is different: name type emb sub uni object ID ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- --------- TimesNewRomanBold CID TrueType yes no yes 5 0 TimesNewRoman CID TrueType yes no yes 7 0 DejaVuSans CID TrueType yes no yes 38 0 > A screenshot of what that PDF looks like on my system: > > http://lizzie.freehostia.com/he.wiki.jpg > Here is a screenshot at 400% zoom after opening my PDF with okular (which uses libpoppler for PDF rendering, just like evince): http://rapidshare.com/files/302513783/he-wiki-iceweasel-pdf-okular.png.html Is that properly-displayed Hebrew text? (I hope the rapidshare links work; I currently have no personal webspace for sharing files.) -- Regards, | Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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Re: blurry fonts (again)
by celejar
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 23:52:05 +0100
Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@...> wrote: ... > (I hope the rapidshare links work; I currently have no personal webspace > for sharing files.) Thanks very much for your help, but unfortunately, Rapidshare is giving me a hard time: > Error > You want to download the following file: > > http://rapidshare.com/files/302522581/he-wiki-iceweasel.pdf | 455 KB > > This file can only be downloaded by becoming a Premium member > > There are no more download slots available for free users right now. If you don't want to become a premium member, you might want to try again later. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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Re: blurry fonts (again)
by Florian Kulzer-3
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On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 14:38:17 -0500, Celejar wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 23:52:05 +0100 Florian Kulzer wrote: > > ... > > > (I hope the rapidshare links work; I currently have no personal webspace > > for sharing files.) > > Thanks very much for your help, but unfortunately, Rapidshare is giving > me a hard time: > > > Error > > You want to download the following file: > > > > http://rapidshare.com/files/302522581/he-wiki-iceweasel.pdf | 455 KB > > > > This file can only be downloaded by becoming a Premium member > > > > There are no more download slots available for free users right now. > > If you don't want to become a premium member, you might want to try > > again later. Is it OK if I send you the files off-list (about 500K total)? -- Regards, | Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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Re: blurry fonts (again)
by celejar
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On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:31:11 +0100
Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@...> wrote: > Is it OK if I send you the files off-list (about 500K total)? Sure; please do. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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Re: blurry fonts (again)
by Florian Kulzer-3
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On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 16:40:06 -0500, Celejar wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 22:34:26 +0100 Florian Kulzer wrote: [ I sent test files to Celejar off-list. ] > > The files are attached; I am curious to find out whether the fonts > > chosen by my system resulted in correct Hebrew typesetting. > > I'm no font / typography expert, but they look pretty good; they > certainly aren't mangled and overlapping as mine are. OK, so let's recap: You print the Hebrew Wikipedia homepage with "print to file" in iceweasel. You get a PDF with misaligned Hebrew characters (kerning seems to be off) and this font information: name type emb sub uni object ID ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- --------- FrankRuehlCLM Type 1 yes no yes 5 0 FrankRuehlCLM Type 1 yes no yes 7 0 BitstreamVeraSerif CID TrueType yes no yes 37 0 I do the same thing and I get a PDF with properly aligned Hebrew characters and this font information: name type emb sub uni object ID ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- --------- TimesNewRomanBold CID TrueType yes no yes 5 0 TimesNewRoman CID TrueType yes no yes 7 0 DejaVuSans CID TrueType yes no yes 38 0 I checked my "good" PDF with pdfedit and the Hebrew characters are indeed typeset in TimesNewRoman and TimesNewRomanBold. DejaVuSans is used only for the extra information in headers and footers (URL, page number, date, time). Your "bad" PDF uses the FrankRuehlCLM font for the Hebrew text and BitstreamVeraSerif for headers and footers. I think there could be a problem with the FrankRuehlCLM font (package "culmus") or pango has a bug with Type 1 fonts. You could try to downgrade libpango1.0-0 and friends to their Lenny versions (provided that this does not break anything else on your system, of course) or you could remove the culmus package so that icewesel is forced to use e.g. the DejaVuSerif font for Hebrew passages. (The DejaVu fonts are extended versions of their BitstreamVera ancestors; they include Hebrew charcters.) -- Regards, | Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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Re: blurry fonts (again)
by celejar
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On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 00:03:39 +0100
Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@...> wrote: ... > OK, so let's recap: > > You print the Hebrew Wikipedia homepage with "print to file" in > iceweasel. You get a PDF with misaligned Hebrew characters (kerning > seems to be off) and this font information: > > name type emb sub uni object ID > ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- --------- > FrankRuehlCLM Type 1 yes no yes 5 0 > FrankRuehlCLM Type 1 yes no yes 7 0 > BitstreamVeraSerif CID TrueType yes no yes 37 0 > > I do the same thing and I get a PDF with properly aligned Hebrew > characters and this font information: > > name type emb sub uni object ID > ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- --------- > TimesNewRomanBold CID TrueType yes no yes 5 0 > TimesNewRoman CID TrueType yes no yes 7 0 > DejaVuSans CID TrueType yes no yes 38 0 > > I checked my "good" PDF with pdfedit and the Hebrew characters are > indeed typeset in TimesNewRoman and TimesNewRomanBold. DejaVuSans is > used only for the extra information in headers and footers (URL, page > number, date, time). Your "bad" PDF uses the FrankRuehlCLM font for the > Hebrew text and BitstreamVeraSerif for headers and footers. > > I think there could be a problem with the FrankRuehlCLM font (package > "culmus") or pango has a bug with Type 1 fonts. You could try to > downgrade libpango1.0-0 and friends to their Lenny versions (provided > that this does not break anything else on your system, of course) or you > could remove the culmus package so that icewesel is forced to use e.g. > the DejaVuSerif font for Hebrew passages. (The DejaVu fonts are extended > versions of their BitstreamVera ancestors; they include Hebrew > charcters.) Okay. So I tried removing culmus, and now a reasonably legible and normal looking, if not particularly attractive (although that may be purely subjective, and in the eye of the beholder) PDF is generated, for which pdffonts shows: name type emb sub uni object ID ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- --------- FreeSerifBold CID TrueType yes no yes 5 0 FreeSerif CID TrueType yes no yes 7 0 BitstreamVeraSerif CID TrueType yes no yes 35 0 I tried using fc-match on these font names, as you showed me in our first iteration of this thread, but I'm a bit confused by the output: ~$ fc-match FreeSerif FreeSerif.ttf: "FreeSerif" "Mittel" This seems to indicate that FreeSerif comes from the FreeSerif.ttf file, which is from the ttf-freefont package. OTOH: ~$ fc-match FreeSerifBold Vera.ttf: "Bitstream Vera Sans" "Roman" Does this mean that FreeSerifBold is in Vera.ttf and not in ttf-freefont? But: ~$ dpkg -L ttf-freefont | grep FreeSerif /usr/share/fonts/truetype/freefont/FreeSerifItalic.ttf /usr/share/fonts/truetype/freefont/FreeSerifBoldItalic.ttf /usr/share/fonts/truetype/freefont/FreeSerif.ttf /usr/share/fonts/truetype/freefont/FreeSerifBold.ttf I find all this stuff fairly baffling. Regarding your other suggestion about downgrading libpango, trying to do that requires removing some packages that are important to me, or doing a fairly significant looking downgrade of a number of packages, so I'm going to hold off on that, at least for now. Thanks much! Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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Re: blurry fonts (again)
by Florian Kulzer-3
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On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 20:39:32 -0500, Celejar wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 00:03:39 +0100 Florian Kulzer wrote: [...] > > I checked my "good" PDF with pdfedit and the Hebrew characters are > > indeed typeset in TimesNewRoman and TimesNewRomanBold. DejaVuSans is > > used only for the extra information in headers and footers (URL, page > > number, date, time). Your "bad" PDF uses the FrankRuehlCLM font for the > > Hebrew text and BitstreamVeraSerif for headers and footers. > > > > I think there could be a problem with the FrankRuehlCLM font (package > > "culmus") [...] > Okay. So I tried removing culmus, and now a reasonably legible and > normal looking, if not particularly attractive (although that may be > purely subjective, and in the eye of the beholder) PDF is generated, > for which pdffonts shows: > > name type emb sub uni object ID > ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- --------- > FreeSerifBold CID TrueType yes no yes 5 0 > FreeSerif CID TrueType yes no yes 7 0 > BitstreamVeraSerif CID TrueType yes no yes 35 0 You can use fc-match -s serif:lang=he to get a list of possible candidates for serif fonts on your system that support Hebrew. Maybe you can find one that is easier on the eyes than FreeSerif (which is important for reading longer texts, all discussions about aesthetics and personal taste set aside). Note that the lower-ranked fonts (the results are sorted from best match to worst) might not actually have Hebrew characters at all, however. Font matching tends to assume that it is better to return a font that deviates a lot from the search requirements than not to return anything at all. > I tried using fc-match on these font names, as you showed me in our > first iteration of this thread, but I'm a bit confused by the output: > > ~$ fc-match > FreeSerif FreeSerif.ttf: "FreeSerif" "Mittel" > > This seems to indicate that FreeSerif comes from the FreeSerif.ttf > file, which is from the ttf-freefont package. OTOH: > > ~$ fc-match > FreeSerifBold Vera.ttf: "Bitstream Vera Sans" "Roman" > > Does this mean that FreeSerifBold is in Vera.ttf and not in > ttf-freefont? No, searching for font attributes like weight, style or slant has to be done differently: $ fc-match FreeSerif:weight=bold FreeSerifBold.ttf: "FreeSerif" "Fett" $ fc-match FreeSerif:style=bold FreeSerifBold.ttf: "FreeSerif" "Bold" (I do not understand why the first command returns the German word for "Bold", though, or why you see "Mittel" instead of "Medium".) More information on font attributes and how to influence font selection with ~/.fonts.conf can be found in /usr/share/doc/fontconfig/fontconfig-user.html -- Regards, | Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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Re: blurry fonts (again)
by celejar
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On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:43:49 +0100
Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@...> wrote: ... > You can use > > fc-match -s serif:lang=he ... > No, searching for font attributes like weight, style or slant has to be > done differently: > > $ fc-match FreeSerif:weight=bold > FreeSerifBold.ttf: "FreeSerif" "Fett" > > $ fc-match FreeSerif:style=bold > FreeSerifBold.ttf: "FreeSerif" "Bold" > > (I do not understand why the first command returns the German word for > "Bold", though, or why you see "Mittel" instead of "Medium".) > > More information on font attributes and how to influence font selection > with ~/.fonts.conf can be found in > > /usr/share/doc/fontconfig/fontconfig-user.html Thanks for the explanations. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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Re: blurry fonts (again)
by celejar
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On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 00:03:39 +0100
Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@...> wrote: ... > I think there could be a problem with the FrankRuehlCLM font (package > "culmus") or pango has a bug with Type 1 fonts. You could try to > downgrade libpango1.0-0 and friends to their Lenny versions (provided > that this does not break anything else on your system, of course) or you > could remove the culmus package so that icewesel is forced to use e.g. > the DejaVuSerif font for Hebrew passages. (The DejaVu fonts are extended > versions of their BitstreamVera ancestors; they include Hebrew > charcters.) I noticed that I don't seem to see this problem with Epiphany, so I went ahead and filed a bug with upstream Firefox: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=527366 Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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Re: blurry fonts (again)
by Florian Kulzer-3
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On Sun, Nov 08, 2009 at 16:22:38 -0500, Celejar wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 00:03:39 +0100 Florian Kulzer wrote: > > ... > > > I think there could be a problem with the FrankRuehlCLM font (package > > "culmus") or pango has a bug with Type 1 fonts. > > I noticed that I don't seem to see this problem with Epiphany, so I > went ahead and filed a bug with upstream Firefox: > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=527366 That is interesting. Does Epiphany use the FrankRuehlCLM font when it produces the readable PDF? -- Regards, | Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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Re: blurry fonts (again)
by celejar
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On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:04:34 +0100
Florian Kulzer <florian.kulzer+debian@...> wrote: > On Sun, Nov 08, 2009 at 16:22:38 -0500, Celejar wrote: > > On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 00:03:39 +0100 Florian Kulzer wrote: > > > > ... > > > > > I think there could be a problem with the FrankRuehlCLM font (package > > > "culmus") or pango has a bug with Type 1 fonts. > > > > I noticed that I don't seem to see this problem with Epiphany, so I > > went ahead and filed a bug with upstream Firefox: > > > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=527366 > > That is interesting. Does Epiphany use the FrankRuehlCLM font when it > produces the readable PDF? No, it actually uses DavidCLM, another font from the culmus package: ~$ pdffonts output.pdf name type emb sub uni object ID ------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- --------- DavidCLM Type 1 yes no yes 5 0 BitstreamVeraSans CID TrueType yes no yes 6 0 ~$ fc-match DavidCLM DavidCLM-Medium.pfa: "David CLM" "Medium" ~$ dpkg -S DavidCLM-Medium.pfa culmus: /usr/share/fonts/X11/Type1/DavidCLM-Medium.pfa Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@... with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@... |
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