ceci n'est pas une selection...

[peter sikking]

guys,

would like to tap the wisdom of this crowd here.

say I have made a selection in GIMP, done what needed to be done to the
pixels in the selection and now want to get rid of the selection.

the obvious way is Select->None.

how many more ways are there?

     --ps

         founder + principal interaction architect
             man + machine interface works

         http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture



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[David Gowers]

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 10:59 AM, peter sikking <peter@...> wrote:

> guys,
>
> would like to tap the wisdom of this crowd here.
>
> say I have made a selection in GIMP, done what needed to be done to the
> pixels in the selection and now want to get rid of the selection.
>
> the obvious way is Select->None.
>
> how many more ways are there?

1. Use rectangle/ellipse select to select nothing (single click)
2. Activate QMask, drop black on the image, exit QMask
3. Use the Move tool in Selection mode to throw the selection mask off canvas.
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[Stephen Griffiths-2]

On Sat, 2009-10-31 at 01:29 +0100, peter sikking wrote:
> how many more ways are there?

ctrl+shift+a

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[Chris Mohler]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 7:37 PM, David Gowers <00ai99@...> wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 10:59 AM, peter sikking <peter@...> wrote:
>> guys,
>>
>> would like to tap the wisdom of this crowd here.
>>
>> say I have made a selection in GIMP, done what needed to be done to the
>> pixels in the selection and now want to get rid of the selection.
>>
>> the obvious way is Select->None.
>>
>> how many more ways are there?
>
> 1. Use rectangle/ellipse select to select nothing (single click)
> 2. Activate QMask, drop black on the image, exit QMask
> 3. Use the Move tool in Selection mode to throw the selection mask off canvas.

4. (or 0 really), CTRL-SHIFT-A.  This is what I always do - it makes
sense to me.

Chris
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[Liam R E Quin]

On Sat, 2009-10-31 at 01:29 +0100, peter sikking wrote:

> the obvious way is Select->None.
>
> how many more ways are there?

Save the image as png, quit gimp and restart. :D

go to channels dialogue, make an empty channel, and do,
channel to selection. (and then go to layers and select
a layer in the image)

use rectangle tool to marquee round the whole image in
"subtract from selection" mode, and press Enter

single-click with rectangle tool, outside the image (or ellipse tool
probably, but not freehand tool)

several others that other people suggested, I generally do
shift-control-a.

Liam



--
Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org www.advogato.org

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[David Gowers]

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Liam R E Quin <liam@...> wrote:

> On Sat, 2009-10-31 at 01:29 +0100, peter sikking wrote:
>
>> the obvious way is Select->None.
>>
>> how many more ways are there?
>
> Save the image as png, quit gimp and restart. :D
>
> go to channels dialogue, make an empty channel, and do,
> channel to selection. (and then go to layers and select
> a layer in the image)
>
> use rectangle tool to marquee round the whole image in
> "subtract from selection" mode, and press Enter
>
> single-click with rectangle tool, outside the image (or ellipse tool
> probably, but not freehand tool)

It doesn't need to be outside the image, just outside the selected area.

>
> several others that other people suggested, I generally do
> shift-control-a.

I view that as performing the exact same action as Select->None, which
is why I omitted it.
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[Martin Renold]

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 01:29:48AM +0100, peter sikking wrote:
> the obvious way is Select->None.

I often use Ctrl-a (Select->All). Doesn't get rid of the selection, but I
usually can do what I wanted to do afterwards.

bye,
Martin
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[SHIRAKAWA Akira]

peter sikking wrote:
> say I have made a selection in GIMP, done what needed to be done to the
> pixels in the selection and now want to get rid of the selection.
>
> the obvious way is Select->None.
>
> how many more ways are there?

I usually click with a selection tool on any area outside the active
selection.
But this isn't always fast to do. For example another tool may be
currently selected, or the selection method may be set to addition,
subtraction or intersection.

--
SHIRAKAWA Akira
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[peter sikking]

first, thanks for the help from those who replied (Liam: hilarious)

Akira wrote:

> I usually click with a selection tool on any area outside the active  
> selection.
> But this isn't always fast to do. For example another tool may be  
> currently selected, or the selection method may be set to addition,  
> subtraction or intersection.


you hit the issue on the head. all of this is not very fast,
except ctrl-shift-a, but that is a shortcut. also the tool
changing feels awkward, and is simply likely if one has operated
on the selected pixels.

what I am missing is a direct way to end the selection state.

<brainstorm>

- like a close box [x] on the top-right of the marching ants
- or (another shortcut actually) press <esc> (may be taken in some  
states)

</brainstorm>

     --ps

         founder + principal interaction architect
             man + machine interface works

         http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture



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[Sven Neumann]

On Sat, 2009-10-31 at 11:50 +0100, peter sikking wrote:

> what I am missing is a direct way to end the selection state.
>
> <brainstorm>
>
> - like a close box [x] on the top-right of the marching ants
> - or (another shortcut actually) press <esc> (may be taken in some  
> states)

Escape is taken basically. It is used by all tools as a means to cancel
the current tool operation. Not all tools allow to cancel the current
operation, but IMO we should rather make sure that this changes, than
changing the semantics of Escape.


Sven


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[SHIRAKAWA Akira]

peter sikking wrote:

[cut]
> <brainstorm>
>
> - like a close box [x] on the top-right of the marching ants
> - or (another shortcut actually) press <esc> (may be taken in some  
> states)
>
> </brainstorm>

I like the close box more (the <esc> button on my keyboard is too far
away from my tablet, and I think this is the case for most tablet users,
especially if large ones are used), but what if the selection is bigger
than the drawing area or if is it in another part of the image than the
one currently viewed? Then one would have to zoom out/pan again to click
the box, in other words will have to "search it".

What about showing a small "remove selection" button near the "Toggle
Quick" Mask button? That would be in my opinion a very logical place for
the proposed close box [x] to be, would take out very little space and
be always visible.

--
SHIRAKAWA Akira



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On Saturday 31 October 2009, peter sikking wrote:
> <brainstorm>
> - like a close box [x] on the top-right of the marching ants

I like the idea of adding such a "selection context menu" to the selection, it
could have much more than just an [X], maybe stuff like what Alt+...
currently does (move selection, move selected content, move duplicate of
selected content).  Plus a number of other things I can't imagine yet.

Think of it as the options that show up for desktop widgets for say KDE4 or
Mac's dashboard applets.

And it would be nice if these popped up at the side of the selection where the
mouse currently is located so that the maximum distance is always size/2.

> </brainstorm>

There would have to be a way to free the area occupied by such options, either
by moving it to the other side or by disabling it, because there are some
scenarios where you might need to do something with that area.  Maybe one
modifier key that's freed by that additional user interface could be used to
switch it off (either while being pressed or to toggle the state)?

A lot of design details wait here.

As always I'm looking forward for what you invent next, Peter :)

Daniel


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[Jernej Simončič]

On Saturday, October 31, 2009, 11:50:43, peter sikking wrote:

> what I am missing is a direct way to end the selection state.

I like the way PSP has this implemented: right click anywhere with any
of the selection tools active will dismiss the current selection (I
find having a secondary function bound to the right mouse button much
more useful than a context menu, especially since the context menu in
GIMP duplicates the menu bar).

--
< Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ >

Opportunity always knocks at the least opportune moment.
       -- Ducharme's Precept

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[Patrick Horgan]

SHIRAKAWA Akira wrote:
> ...elision by patrick...
> I like the close box more (the <esc> button on my keyboard is too far
> away from my tablet, and I think this is the case for most tablet users,
> especially if large ones are used), but what if the selection is bigger
> than the drawing area or if is it in another part of the image than the
> one currently viewed? Then one would have to zoom out/pan again to click
> the box, in other words will have to "search it".
>  
Exactly my problem.  When I'm using my tablet, keyboard shortcuts
ain't.  And something that's part of the marching ants won't be visible
when I'm doing detail work.
> What about showing a small "remove selection" button near the "Toggle
> Quick" Mask button? That would be in my opinion a very logical place for
> the proposed close box [x] to be, would take out very little space and
> be always visible.
>  
Yea!!!  Seems like an obvious idea now that I've heard it that would
make tablet user's lifes more happy:)  Although, if you think about why
I would be wanting to get rid of the selection, I'm probably going to
have to scale or select another layer or something that is also less
than optional.  If we could have two little buttons it would be much
better.  The first, the aforementioned selection canceler, and the
second, something that does the same toggle as hitting <TAB>.  I love
the <TAB> keyboard shortcut, but to use it I usually have to set down my
tablet and reach over to the keyboard, which breaks the flow.

Patrick

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[Sven Neumann]

Hi,

On Sun, 2009-11-01 at 09:29 -0800, Patrick Horgan wrote:

> Yea!!!  Seems like an obvious idea now that I've heard it that would
> make tablet user's lifes more happy:)  Although, if you think about why
> I would be wanting to get rid of the selection, I'm probably going to
> have to scale or select another layer or something that is also less
> than optional.  If we could have two little buttons it would be much
> better.  The first, the aforementioned selection canceler, and the
> second, something that does the same toggle as hitting <TAB>.  I love
> the <TAB> keyboard shortcut, but to use it I usually have to set down my
> tablet and reach over to the keyboard, which breaks the flow.

I wonder why you need both hands on the tablet. The pros that I have
seen working with GIMP always had one hand on the keyboard and the other
hand holding the tablet pen. I don't want to offend you in any way, I
just would like to understand why using the tablet and the keyboard at
the same time is not an option for you.


Sven


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[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sun, 2009-11-01 at 18:49 +0100, Sven Neumann wrote:

> I wonder why you need both hands on the tablet. The pros that I have
> seen working with GIMP always had one hand on the keyboard and the other
> hand holding the tablet pen.

That's what I do, too. Wouldn't with a tablet-PC, though ;)


--
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thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/

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[Alexia Death-2]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Sven Neumann <sven@...> wrote:
> I wonder why you need both hands on the tablet. The pros that I have
> seen working with GIMP always had one hand on the keyboard and the other
> hand holding the tablet pen. I don't want to offend you in any way, I
> just would like to understand why using the tablet and the keyboard at
> the same time is not an option for you.

It is an option, but its often inconvenient. I like to have my tablet
aligned with the screen as much as possible. It makes drawing easier.
After being a tablet user for several years now I can do side by side
setup if I have to, but more often than not, Ill just pick up the
tablet and hold it, since having a laptop, best place under the screen
is already taken. This puts the keyboard on the other side of the
tablet. I have A5 tablet, so not that big, but reaching for the keys
is still a hassle.


--
--Alexia
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[Alexia Death-2]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@...> wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-11-01 at 18:49 +0100, Sven Neumann wrote:
>
>> I wonder why you need both hands on the tablet. The pros that I have
>> seen working with GIMP always had one hand on the keyboard and the other
>> hand holding the tablet pen.
>
> That's what I do, too. Wouldn't with a tablet-PC, though ;)
Or a screen tablet. Too bad I cant afford one :P.



--
--Alexia
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[Alexia Death-2]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Sven Neumann <sven@...> wrote:
> I wonder why you need both hands on the tablet. The pros that I have
> seen working with GIMP always had one hand on the keyboard and the other
> hand holding the tablet pen.

Let me propose a heretic idea that this is perhaps because most common
work flows do not work out with having one hand on the keyboard while
using a tablet? Like not having access to a one click undo. I know my
need to have a hand on the keiboard near disappeard when I got the
button maping for my bamboo working, so I have function keys for
undo/redo.



--
--Alexia
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[RobA]

>> What about showing a small "remove selection" button near the "Toggle
>> Quick" Mask button? That would be in my opinion a very logical place for
>> the proposed close box [x] to be, would take out very little space and
>> be always visible.
>>
> Yea!!!  Seems like an obvious idea now that I've heard it that would
> make tablet user's lifes more happy:)

If you want to dream of selection "quick-buttons", I'd suggest:
Toggle Quickmask (existing), Toggle Last Selection (one click sets it
to selection of "none" and a second click would bring back the last
selection before it was made to none, using one of the methods.  The
advantage to this, is a selection could be set, work done, then
toggled and work done and bring back the selection to do more work
again.  Sort of a streamlined version of saving, clearing, then later
restoring a selection.) and Invert Selection.

But this should move over to the UI brainstorm at this point ;)

-Rob A>
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