civicrm, civicspace, drupal, joomla ???
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civicrm, civicspace, drupal, joomla ???
by dalehohm
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Hi Folks,
I am confused and I'm hoping someone can put things
in perspective for me.
I am working on updating a website/community portal
for a non-profit.
Here are my history and requirements in
brief:
1) site is currently based on PostNuke (therefore
is woefully outdated)
2) I need to have a public portal with about a
dozen pages of static content
3) I need a member portal with internal content, a
strong event calendar and basic collaboration
4) member management, groups, opt-in membership,
mailing lists, article publication etc. are all desired
I started searching for a replacement over a year
ago and found CivicSpace. CivicSpace sounded interesting, but I didn't
really understand what it was. I then found CiviCRM and realized it's
functionality was a great fit for number 4.
I decided that an implementation of a CMS along
with CiviCRM was really what I wanted and should cover all my
requirements.
I saw that CiviCRM integrated with both Drupal and
Joomla. Looking back at the pages I found for CivicSpace, it appeared that
it was tightly coupled with Drupal and I made the, perhaps erroneous, assumption
that because of the similar names the integration with CiviCRM would also be
better with Drupal.
I have had CiviCRM and Drupal installed for some
time now, but have not gotten much further. It is clear to me that I want
to use CiviCRM, but I am uncertain whether I made the right choice with Drupal
over Joomla. In particular, the event calendar choices with Drupal are not
great (at least last I looked) and I have not found an administrator book
for Drupal as there is for Joomla (although there appears to be one coming out
in August). I am not adverse to removing CiviCRM and Drupal and starting
over.
So, can anyone help me with the choice between
Drupal and Joomla? One recurring comment I have read is that Drupal is
better architected, but Joomla is easier to get started with - I don't know if
this is still true. I am a developer, but I do not intend to create
modules for these installations... I'm looking for existing solutions in the
community.
And what the heck is/was CivicSpace? Is it
still relevant? If so, how?
Sorry if these questions are answered
somewhere. I looked and looked.
Thanks in advance,
Dale Hohm ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: civicrm-dev@... To be removed from the list, send any message to: civicrm-dev-unsubscribe@... For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.civicrm.org/lists/info/civicrm-dev |
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Re: civicrm, civicspace, drupal, joomla ???
by Matt Chapman-7
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Hi Dale,
These types of questions are better to suited to the forums. But in brief: - As far as I know, CivicSpace On Demand is not really active any more. - CiviCRM has more integration feature with Drupal than Joomla. Neither is particularly tight, as Civi likes to do things it's own way. - You can get CiviEvents into a Drupal calendar using the Calendar module (and its dependencies) and sourcing the iCal feed from CiviEvent. Best, Matt http://www.ninjitsuhosting.com Dale Hohm wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I am confused and I'm hoping someone can put things in perspective for me. > > I am working on updating a website/community portal for a non-profit. > > Here are my history and requirements in brief: > > 1) site is currently based on PostNuke (therefore is woefully outdated) > 2) I need to have a public portal with about a dozen pages of static > content > 3) I need a member portal with internal content, a strong event > calendar and basic collaboration > 4) member management, groups, opt-in membership, mailing lists, > article publication etc. are all desired > > I started searching for a replacement over a year ago and found > CivicSpace. CivicSpace sounded interesting, but I didn't really > understand what it was. I then found CiviCRM and realized it's > functionality was a great fit for number 4. > > I decided that an implementation of a CMS along with CiviCRM was > really what I wanted and should cover all my requirements. > > I saw that CiviCRM integrated with both Drupal and Joomla. Looking > back at the pages I found for CivicSpace, it appeared that it was > tightly coupled with Drupal and I made the, perhaps erroneous, > assumption that because of the similar names the integration with > CiviCRM would also be better with Drupal. > > I have had CiviCRM and Drupal installed for some time now, but have > not gotten much further. It is clear to me that I want to use > CiviCRM, but I am uncertain whether I made the right choice with > Drupal over Joomla. In particular, the event calendar choices with > Drupal are not great (at least last I looked) and I have not found an > administrator book for Drupal as there is for Joomla (although there > appears to be one coming out in August). I am not adverse to removing > CiviCRM and Drupal and starting over. > > So, can anyone help me with the choice between Drupal and Joomla? One > recurring comment I have read is that Drupal is better architected, > but Joomla is easier to get started with - I don't know if this is > still true. I am a developer, but I do not intend to create modules > for these installations... I'm looking for existing solutions in the > community. > > And what the heck is/was CivicSpace? Is it still relevant? If so, how? > > Sorry if these questions are answered somewhere. I looked and looked. > > Thanks in advance, > > Dale Hohm ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: civicrm-dev@... To be removed from the list, send any message to: civicrm-dev-unsubscribe@... For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.civicrm.org/lists/info/civicrm-dev |
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Re: civicrm, civicspace, drupal, joomla ???
by dalehohm
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Oh my. Like I said I was really working on this a year ago and there were
no forums at that time... I see they were launched in April 2007. I'll value any responses that come here, but I'll re-ask in the forums. Thanks, Dale -------------------------------------------------- From: "Matt Chapman" <Matt@...> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 2:40 PM To: <civicrm-dev@...>; "Dale Hohm" <DaleHohm@...> Subject: Re: [civicrm-dev] civicrm, civicspace, drupal, joomla ??? > Hi Dale, > > These types of questions are better to suited to the forums. > > But in brief: > > - As far as I know, CivicSpace On Demand is not really active any more. > > - CiviCRM has more integration feature with Drupal than Joomla. Neither > is particularly tight, as Civi likes to do things it's own way. > > - You can get CiviEvents into a Drupal calendar using the Calendar > module (and its dependencies) and sourcing the iCal feed from CiviEvent. > > Best, > > Matt > http://www.ninjitsuhosting.com > > > Dale Hohm wrote: >> Hi Folks, >> I am confused and I'm hoping someone can put things in perspective for >> me. >> I am working on updating a website/community portal for a non-profit. >> Here are my history and requirements in brief: >> 1) site is currently based on PostNuke (therefore is woefully outdated) >> 2) I need to have a public portal with about a dozen pages of static >> content >> 3) I need a member portal with internal content, a strong event calendar >> and basic collaboration >> 4) member management, groups, opt-in membership, mailing lists, article >> publication etc. are all desired >> I started searching for a replacement over a year ago and found >> CivicSpace. CivicSpace sounded interesting, but I didn't really >> understand what it was. I then found CiviCRM and realized it's >> functionality was a great fit for number 4. >> I decided that an implementation of a CMS along with CiviCRM was really >> what I wanted and should cover all my requirements. I saw that CiviCRM >> integrated with both Drupal and Joomla. Looking back at the pages I >> found for CivicSpace, it appeared that it was tightly coupled with Drupal >> and I made the, perhaps erroneous, assumption that because of the similar >> names the integration with CiviCRM would also be better with Drupal. >> I have had CiviCRM and Drupal installed for some time now, but have not >> gotten much further. It is clear to me that I want to use CiviCRM, but I >> am uncertain whether I made the right choice with Drupal over Joomla. In >> particular, the event calendar choices with Drupal are not great (at >> least last I looked) and I have not found an administrator book for >> Drupal as there is for Joomla (although there appears to be one coming >> out in August). I am not adverse to removing CiviCRM and Drupal and >> starting over. >> So, can anyone help me with the choice between Drupal and Joomla? One >> recurring comment I have read is that Drupal is better architected, but >> Joomla is easier to get started with - I don't know if this is still >> true. I am a developer, but I do not intend to create modules for these >> installations... I'm looking for existing solutions in the community. >> And what the heck is/was CivicSpace? Is it still relevant? If so, how? >> Sorry if these questions are answered somewhere. I looked and looked. >> Thanks in advance, >> Dale Hohm > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > civicrm-dev@... > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > civicrm-dev-unsubscribe@... > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.civicrm.org/lists/info/civicrm-dev > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: civicrm-dev@... To be removed from the list, send any message to: civicrm-dev-unsubscribe@... For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.civicrm.org/lists/info/civicrm-dev |
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Re: civicrm, civicspace, drupal, joomla ???
by Andy Laken
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Dale,
I feel your pain with PostNuke - when I started here our main website was PHP-Nuke! A security nightmare! Your post made me recall the confusion I experienced when I got started with this stuff. Let me try, briefly and no doubt imperfectly, to shed some light here.
Another effort you should be aware of is CiviNode which extends integration between CiviCRM and Drupal by creating actual Drupal "nodes" (content pieces) form CiviCRM contacts, groups, etc. Currently it does not work with CiviCRM Events - you'll need to use 4.3 above to tie those together. Again, I have no experience with Joomla. I chose Drupal for our websites almost 3 years ago and have no regrets - it's handled everything we have thrown at it and is very easy to start extending with your own code should you need to. Hope this helps! On May 14, 2008, at 4:27 PM, Dale Hohm wrote:
____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: civicrm-dev@... To be removed from the list, send any message to: civicrm-dev-unsubscribe@... For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.civicrm.org/lists/info/civicrm-dev |
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Re: civicrm, civicspace, drupal, joomla ???
by Clay Whipkey
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Last summer when I took the job of advancing the portal for an NPO, I found that CiviCRM really had some great things to offer. At the time I was not aware of "association management systems" and decided that CiviCRM was what we needed. My initial impression was that Drupal was technically superior to Joomla, and it probably is, but when I tried to get into the process of setting it up, customizing it, and extending it, I found the terminology to be somewhat confusing and unconventional for a CMS (nodes, modules, etc.) I was being paid by the hour as a consultant and started to worry about burning money on ramp-up time just to get a handle on Drupal. I am also a designer and found Drupal to be somehwat difficult to make look nice.
I tried out Joomla and found it much easier to pick up and run with, especially when needing to create extensions (even if you don't plan to extend, stakeholders ALWAYS want at least a little more than what is already out there.) Another huge contrast was in how easy it was to find extensions for Joomla that would do almost everything I needed to do. Perhaps Drupal does have modules that do similar things, but their site is so hard to use and search. CiviCRM's site is rough in that way, too (no site search?) but then again, its a Drupal site. After really getting into using CiviCRM, I do sometimes bump into things which seem to tell me that Civi would work better on Drupal. Other than that, I have no complaints about Joomla so far. A common difference I hear about is in ACL/permissions, but so far I haven't hit that wall yet. I have actually worked out a way to utilize CiviCRM relationships and groups to act as pseudo-permissions. Hope that helps, at least to offer one perspective from a Joomla user. Not a fanatic, though. My preference is purely pragmatic for my situation. I hear that people do a lot of great stuff with Drupal. cheers, Clay On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 2:15 PM, Andy Laken <andyl@...> wrote:
____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: civicrm-dev@... To be removed from the list, send any message to: civicrm-dev-unsubscribe@... For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.civicrm.org/lists/info/civicrm-dev |
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Re: civicrm, civicspace, drupal, joomla ???
by dave-219
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Wow this is the tamest CMS flame war I've ever seen.
I'm a Drupal fan. Its more flexible, powerful and faster than Joomla, but admittedly all that comes at the price of needing a bit more time to get up to speed. I switched to Drupal only a couple years ago and haven't looked back. But for what you describe either will probably do fine. -dave Clay Whipkey wrote: Last summer when I took the job of advancing the portal for an NPO, I found that CiviCRM really had some great things to offer. At the time I was not aware of "association management systems" and decided that CiviCRM was what we needed. My initial impression was that Drupal was technically superior to Joomla, and it probably is, but when I tried to get into the process of setting it up, customizing it, and extending it, I found the terminology to be somewhat confusing and unconventional for a CMS (nodes, modules, etc.) I was being paid by the hour as a consultant and started to worry about burning money on ramp-up time just to get a handle on Drupal. I am also a designer and found Drupal to be somehwat difficult to make look nice. -- Dave Hansen-Lange Web Developer Advomatic LLC Hong Kong Office +852 6337-0047 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: civicrm-dev@... To be removed from the list, send any message to: civicrm-dev-unsubscribe@... For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.civicrm.org/lists/info/civicrm-dev |
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Re: civicrm, civicspace, drupal, joomla ???
by Matt Chapman-7
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dave wrote:
> Wow this is the tamest CMS flame war I've ever seen. Drupal users are generally more mature, relaxed, and polite, so such discussions are calmer. </troll bait> Seriously, read the comments at opensourcecms.com for both: Drupal http://opensourcecms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=132 Joomla http://opensourcecms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2097 ...ignoring the obvious kool-aid hype ("best CMS EVER!!!!"), and paying special attention to those who have tried both, and those who seem to have a similar level of technical inclination as yourself. BTW, as far as I know, if you need any real tiered permissioning (admins can do this, managers, can do that, members can do something else) Drupal is the only choice, but the Joomlites can correct me if I'm wrong. I tried both briefly, and decided on Drupal. After your message, and discussion with other Joomla users, I decided to investigate it again, and have not regretted my choice. Some will say Drupal has a harder learning curve. I disagree; I just think the quirks between the two are different. I suspect some people have tried Drupal as their first ever CMS and though it was too hard, and then found Joomla easier because of transferred learning from their Drupal experience, in regards to general CMS concepts. I will say that Joomla's library of stock templates/themes is somewhat prettier. Maybe templating is easier; I don't know, but it won't matter for CiviCRM, which uses Smarty templates either way. Still, I'm perfectly open to the idea that joomla might be a better choice for some users. Peace, Matt PS - Drupal ROX!!!! dave wrote: > Wow this is the tamest CMS flame war I've ever seen. > > I'm a Drupal fan. Its more flexible, powerful and faster than Joomla, > but admittedly all that comes at the price of needing a bit more time > to get up to speed. I switched to Drupal only a couple years ago and > haven't looked back. But for what you describe either will probably > do fine. > > -dave > > > > Clay Whipkey wrote: >> Last summer when I took the job of advancing the portal for an NPO, I >> found that CiviCRM really had some great things to offer. At the >> time I was not aware of "association management systems >> <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=association+management+systems&btnG=Search>" >> and decided that CiviCRM was what we needed. My initial impression >> was that Drupal was technically superior to Joomla, and it probably >> is, but when I tried to get into the process of setting it up, >> customizing it, and extending it, I found the terminology to be >> somewhat confusing and unconventional for a CMS (nodes, modules, >> etc.) I was being paid by the hour as a consultant and started to >> worry about burning money on ramp-up time just to get a handle on >> Drupal. I am also a designer and found Drupal to be somehwat >> difficult to make look nice. >> >> I tried out Joomla and found it much easier to pick up and run with, >> especially when needing to create extensions (even if you don't plan >> to extend, stakeholders ALWAYS want at least a little more than what >> is already out there.) Another huge contrast was in how easy it was >> to find extensions for Joomla that would do almost everything I >> needed to do. Perhaps Drupal does have modules that do similar >> things, but their site is so hard to use and search. CiviCRM's site >> is rough in that way, too (no site search?) but then again, its a >> Drupal site. After really getting into using CiviCRM, I do sometimes >> bump into things which seem to tell me that Civi would work better on >> Drupal. Other than that, I have no complaints about Joomla so far. >> A common difference I hear about is in ACL/permissions, but so far I >> haven't hit that wall yet. I have actually worked out a way to >> utilize CiviCRM relationships and groups to act as pseudo-permissions. >> >> Hope that helps, at least to offer one perspective from a Joomla >> user. Not a fanatic, though. My preference is purely pragmatic for >> my situation. I hear that people do a lot of great stuff with Drupal. >> >> cheers, >> Clay >> >> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 2:15 PM, Andy Laken <andyl@... >> <mailto:andyl@...>> wrote: >> >> Dale, >> >> I feel your pain with PostNuke - when I started here our main >> website was PHP-Nuke! A security nightmare! >> >> Your post made me recall the confusion I experienced when I got >> started with this stuff. Let me try, briefly and no doubt >> imperfectly, to shed some light here. >> >> 1. Drupal and Joomla are both open-source, PHP-based content >> management systems, each with their ardent supporters (this >> you know.) I have not used Joomla, so can't really comment >> on whether it's better for your needs than Drupal (anyone >> else?) >> >> 2. CiviCRM (as you also know) is a separate open-source >> project - a PHP-based system for nonprofits, community orgs >> and the like to manage their supporters, volunteers, >> donors, donations, etc. It has built-in bulk e-mail >> capabilities. >> >> 3. CivicSpace is a highly-customized distribution of Drupal >> that grew out of software written for Howard Dean's 2004 >> presidential campaign. It included many specialized Drupal >> modules that help nonprofits, campaigns, and issue >> advocates get their message out, plan and manage >> distributed events, etc, and was made available for free >> download. Almost all of the code CivicSpace wrote was >> contributed back to the Drupal community in the form of >> modules on Drupal.org. When CiviCRM became available, it >> duplicated (and arguably improved on) some of the >> functionality in CivicSpace, so the CivicSpace team >> integrated CiviCRM into their Drupal distribution and >> released a few versions including CiviCRM. >> >> Over the last few years, CivicSpace has focused on offering >> a low-cost hosted solution that integrates pre-configured >> Drupal and CiviCRM for organizations and campaigns (They >> call this "CivicSpace on Demand"), and to this end they >> hired at least one member of the core CiviCRM development >> team. You can check out their offering >> at http://civicspacelabs.org/ If you are looking for >> something quick and easy, and don't plan on writing your >> own modules, it may meet your needs (as a hosted service, I >> don't believe you have control over which Drupal modules >> are installed on your site.) They have a demo available. >> >> 4. Event calendars in Drupal >> Off the top of my head, here are 3 different approaches to >> doing an event calendar in Drupal - the first 2 are >> independent of CiviCRM, while the 3rd is integrated. >> >> 1. Use the Event >> <http://drupal.org/project/event> module - easy, less >> set-up, but an older approach that's less flexible >> >> 2. These days many people are moving away from the Event >> module, and use a contributed module called CCK >> <http://drupal.org/project/cck> to build their own >> Drupal content types; there is a date >> <http://drupal.org/project/date> field-type available >> that has gotten increasingly powerful. Coupled with >> the als0-ubiquitous Views >> <http://drupal.org/project/views> module and >> the Calendar >> <http://drupal.org/project/calendar> module, you can >> build powerful and flexible event calendars without >> having to write code. However, it can take some time >> and learning to set all this up, thought there is >> some good step-by-step documentation here >> <http://drupal.org/node/120710> and here. >> <http://drupal.org/node/133341> >> >> 3. If you are using CiviEvent in CiviCRM to add and >> manage your events, you can pull them into Drupal via >> an iCal feed and display them via the aforementioned >> Calendar module. I've done this and it's not that bad... >> >> >> Another effort you should be aware of is CiviNode >> <http://drupal.org/project/civinode> which extends integration >> between CiviCRM and Drupal by creating actual Drupal "nodes" >> (content pieces) form CiviCRM contacts, groups, etc. Currently it >> does not work with CiviCRM Events - you'll need to use 4.3 above >> to tie those together. >> >> Again, I have no experience with Joomla. I chose Drupal for our >> websites almost 3 years ago and have no regrets - it's handled >> everything we have thrown at it and is very easy to start >> extending with your own code should you need to. >> >> Hope this helps! >> >> -- >> Andy Laken >> Technology Director >> The Quixote Center >> 301.699.0042 >> www.quixote.org <http://www.quixote.org> >> >> > > -- > Dave Hansen-Lange > Web Developer > Advomatic LLC > Hong Kong Office > +852 6337-0047 > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: civicrm-dev@... To be removed from the list, send any message to: civicrm-dev-unsubscribe@... For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.civicrm.org/lists/info/civicrm-dev |
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Re: civicrm, civicspace, drupal, joomla ???
by Andrew Perry-4
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I assume all
the flame wars are appropriately happening on the forums!
I will just comment to say that we run Civi for some sites as a dual install with Joomla and Drupal. Joomla is much easier/better from an end user's perspective in my view - so our clients use it to manage their general website content. For fine grained permissions we have a Drupal install that shares the same database so that people who are not website administrators and are members of different civi groups can be given different permissions. We haven't played much with the new built-in civi ACL to determine whether it will soon enable us to do that fine grained permissioning through Joomla! now/soon so that it can be run all through the Joomla! front-end - without civi administrators having access to updating website content through the Joomla! backend. I echo the previous comments that Drupal seems to be the better development/acl environment at present but that Joomla! is an easier to use system for website management. We are hopefully that the new Joomla! 1.5 framework will enable it to catch up on the ACL side of things soon! It is certainly a much better development environment than it used to be.
legal.consult
pty ltd
This e-mail may be confidential and/or privileged. Only the intended recipient may access or use it. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately and delete this e-mail. We use virus scanning software but exclude all liability for viruses or similar malicious content in any e-mail. Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards Legislation. Matt Chapman wrote: dave wrote: ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: civicrm-dev@... To be removed from the list, send any message to: civicrm-dev-unsubscribe@... For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.civicrm.org/lists/info/civicrm-dev |
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