copyright question

[Jonathan Stickel-5]

I have written some data smoothing code that borrows heavily from code
published as supplemental information in Analytical Chemistry, an ACS
journal.  I would like to submit my code to Octave (as part of a package
in octave-forge).  Here is what the ACS website says about the copyright:

"Electronic Supporting Information files are available without a
subscription to ACS Web Editions. All files are copyrighted by the
American Chemical Society. Files may be downloaded for personal use;
users are not permitted to reproduce, republish, redistribute, or resell
any Supporting Information, either in whole or in part, in either
machine-readable form or any other form. For permission to reproduce
this material, contact the ACS Copyright Office by e-mail at
copyright@... or by fax at 202-776-8112."

I plan to email ACS about this, but is there a suggested way to ask
permission?  My thought is to GPL my code submission and cite the
publication.  Do you think ACS will allow this, or should I ask for
something else?

Thanks,
Jonathan

[Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso]

On 29/02/2008, Jonathan Stickel <jjstickel@...> wrote:
>  My thought is to GPL my code submission and cite the publication.

The way copyright works is that you can't choose the copyright terms
for anything other than an artistic work you've created yourself. So
the ACS code that you borrowed from isn't free for you to license it
under GPL terms. You may, however, ask ACS or the copyright holders of
that code to put it under a free license. Be extemely diplomatic how
you request this. People who write copyright statements like the one
you quoted tend to distrust any dissemination of information and tend
to think in terms of property, theft, and such nonsense.

> Do you think ACS will allow this,

It's worth a try. You need to request new license terms for the code
you want to put under Octave. Give them options like BSD-like or GPL,
but make sure you make it clear that the code you want to contribute
to Octave must be under GPL-compatible terms. In particular, they must
not disallow commercial use, which is often a GPL-incompatible
restricition people add.

HTH,
- Jordi G. H.

[John W. Eaton]

On 29-Feb-2008, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:

| On 29/02/2008, Jonathan Stickel <jjstickel@...> wrote:
| >  My thought is to GPL my code submission and cite the publication.
|
| Be extemely diplomatic how
| you request this. People who write copyright statements like the one
| you quoted tend to distrust any dissemination of information and tend
| to think in terms of property, theft, and such nonsense.

Yeah, so I'd recommend not stating your case this way.  :-)

It sounds as though the ACS software copyright statement is similar to
the one used by the ACM.  Ugh.  Let's bottle up all the science so
that it can't really be freely shared.  At the very least, these
people should define what they really intend when they say
non-commercial.

| > Do you think ACS will allow this,
|
| It's worth a try. You need to request new license terms for the code
| you want to put under Octave. Give them options like BSD-like or GPL,
| but make sure you make it clear that the code you want to contribute
| to Octave must be under GPL-compatible terms. In particular, they must
| not disallow commercial use, which is often a GPL-incompatible
| restricition people add.

You might also make it clear that since the GPL allows anyone to
redistribute, it prevents proprietary derivative works, which might be
sufficient for them, since they may be confusing proprietary and
commercial (I mean, how else would you use the software in commerce if
you don't make it proprietary?  :-/ ).

jwe

[Ben Abbott]

On Friday, February 29, 2008, at 11:13AM, "Jonathan Stickel" <jjstickel@...> wrote:

>I have written some data smoothing code that borrows heavily from code
>published as supplemental information in Analytical Chemistry, an ACS
>journal.  I would like to submit my code to Octave (as part of a package
>in octave-forge).  Here is what the ACS website says about the copyright:
>
>"Electronic Supporting Information files are available without a
>subscription to ACS Web Editions. All files are copyrighted by the
>American Chemical Society. Files may be downloaded for personal use;
>users are not permitted to reproduce, republish, redistribute, or resell
>any Supporting Information, either in whole or in part, in either
>machine-readable form or any other form. For permission to reproduce
>this material, contact the ACS Copyright Office by e-mail at
>copyright@... or by fax at 202-776-8112."
>
>I plan to email ACS about this, but is there a suggested way to ask
>permission?  My thought is to GPL my code submission and cite the
>publication.  Do you think ACS will allow this, or should I ask for
>something else?
>
>Thanks,
>Jonathan
>

Jonathan,

I'm intrigued.

I occasionally run into claims of copyright issues with regards to published algorithms. Can you post a reference to the paper in question, so that I may take a look?

Thanks
Ben

[Jonathan Stickel-5]

Ben Abbott wrote:

> On Friday, February 29, 2008, at 11:13AM, "Jonathan Stickel"
> <jjstickel@...> wrote:
>> I have written some data smoothing code that borrows heavily from
>> code published as supplemental information in Analytical Chemistry,
>> an ACS journal.  I would like to submit my code to Octave (as part
>> of a package in octave-forge).  Here is what the ACS website says
>> about the copyright:
>>
>> "Electronic Supporting Information files are available without a
>> subscription to ACS Web Editions. All files are copyrighted by the
>>  American Chemical Society. Files may be downloaded for personal
>> use; users are not permitted to reproduce, republish, redistribute,
>> or resell any Supporting Information, either in whole or in part,
>> in either machine-readable form or any other form. For permission
>> to reproduce this material, contact the ACS Copyright Office by
>> e-mail at copyright@... or by fax at 202-776-8112."
>>
>> I plan to email ACS about this, but is there a suggested way to ask
>>  permission?  My thought is to GPL my code submission and cite the
>>  publication.  Do you think ACS will allow this, or should I ask
>> for something else?
>>
>> Thanks, Jonathan
>>
>
> Jonathan,
>
> I'm intrigued.
>
> I occasionally run into claims of copyright issues with regards to
> published algorithms. Can you post a reference to the paper in
> question, so that I may take a look?
>
> Thanks Ben
>
>

Of course.  The paper is Anal. Chem.; 2003; 75(14) pp 3631 - 3636.  The
url for the supporting information (including code) is

http://pubs3.acs.org/acs/journals/supporting_information.page?in_manuscript=ac034173t

I have already emailed the author, and he has given me his personal
permission to make a derivative work.  This is the nature of science
after all!

Jonathan

[dbateman]

Jonathan Stickel-5 wrote:

I have already emailed the author, and he has given me his personal
permission to make a derivative work.  This is the nature of science
after all!

Jonathan

In that case does the ACS license still apply if the original author gave you the code under different licensing terms. I tried once contact ACM for a request for relicensing and got a defeaning silence, and have since considered it better to contact the original authors directly.

D.

[Ben Abbott]

On Feb 29, 2008, at 3:15 PM, Jonathan Stickel wrote:

> Ben Abbott wrote:
>> On Friday, February 29, 2008, at 11:13AM, "Jonathan Stickel"
>> <jjstickel@...> wrote:
>>> I have written some data smoothing code that borrows heavily from
>>> code published as supplemental information in Analytical Chemistry,
>>> an ACS journal.  I would like to submit my code to Octave (as part
>>> of a package in octave-forge).  Here is what the ACS website says
>>> about the copyright:
>>> "Electronic Supporting Information files are available without a  
>>> subscription to ACS Web Editions. All files are copyrighted by the
>>> American Chemical Society. Files may be downloaded for personal
>>> use; users are not permitted to reproduce, republish, redistribute,
>>> or resell any Supporting Information, either in whole or in part,
>>> in either machine-readable form or any other form. For permission
>>> to reproduce this material, contact the ACS Copyright Office by
>>> e-mail at copyright@... or by fax at 202-776-8112."
>>> I plan to email ACS about this, but is there a suggested way to ask
>>> permission?  My thought is to GPL my code submission and cite the
>>> publication.  Do you think ACS will allow this, or should I ask
>>> for something else?
>>> Thanks, Jonathan
>> Jonathan,
>> I'm intrigued.
>> I occasionally run into claims of copyright issues with regards to
>> published algorithms. Can you post a reference to the paper in
>> question, so that I may take a look?
>> Thanks Ben
>
> Of course.  The paper is Anal. Chem.; 2003; 75(14) pp 3631 - 3636.  
> The url for the supporting information (including code) is
>
> http://pubs3.acs.org/acs/journals/supporting_information.page?in_manuscript=ac034173t
>
> I have already emailed the author, and he has given me his personal  
> permission to make a derivative work.  This is the nature of science  
> after all!
>
> Jonathan

Jonathan,

There isn't so much code in the reference. Are you looking to "borrow"  
something as short as the lines below?

        m = numel (y);
        E = speye (m);
        D = diff (E, d);
        W = spdiags (w, 0, m, m);
        C = chol (W + lambda * D′ * D);
        z = C \ (C′ \ (w .* y));

Please confirm.

If so, I know of a prior example that may be of relevance.

Beyond the "prior example", I expect you'd like to introduce a  
specific dependent variable, say "x"? ... rather than relying upon the  
indices of y?

One last question, is there any license associated with the  
publication, or is the concern of the copyright?

Ben

[Jonathan Stickel-5]

Ben Abbott wrote:

>
> On Feb 29, 2008, at 3:15 PM, Jonathan Stickel wrote:
>
>> Ben Abbott wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 29, 2008, at 11:13AM, "Jonathan Stickel"
>>> <jjstickel@...> wrote:
>>>> I have written some data smoothing code that borrows heavily from
>>>> code published as supplemental information in Analytical Chemistry,
>>>> an ACS journal.  I would like to submit my code to Octave (as part
>>>> of a package in octave-forge).  Here is what the ACS website says
>>>> about the copyright:
>>>> "Electronic Supporting Information files are available without a
>>>> subscription to ACS Web Editions. All files are copyrighted by the
>>>> American Chemical Society. Files may be downloaded for personal
>>>> use; users are not permitted to reproduce, republish, redistribute,
>>>> or resell any Supporting Information, either in whole or in part,
>>>> in either machine-readable form or any other form. For permission
>>>> to reproduce this material, contact the ACS Copyright Office by
>>>> e-mail at copyright@... or by fax at 202-776-8112."
>>>> I plan to email ACS about this, but is there a suggested way to ask
>>>> permission?  My thought is to GPL my code submission and cite the
>>>> publication.  Do you think ACS will allow this, or should I ask
>>>> for something else?
>>>> Thanks, Jonathan
>>> Jonathan,
>>> I'm intrigued.
>>> I occasionally run into claims of copyright issues with regards to
>>> published algorithms. Can you post a reference to the paper in
>>> question, so that I may take a look?
>>> Thanks Ben
>>
>> Of course.  The paper is Anal. Chem.; 2003; 75(14) pp 3631 - 3636.  
>> The url for the supporting information (including code) is
>>
>> http://pubs3.acs.org/acs/journals/supporting_information.page?in_manuscript=ac034173t 
>>
>>
>> I have already emailed the author, and he has given me his personal
>> permission to make a derivative work.  This is the nature of science
>> after all!
>>
>> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan,
>
> There isn't so much code in the reference. Are you looking to "borrow"
> something as short as the lines below?
>
>     m = numel (y);
>     E = speye (m);
>     D = diff (E, d);
>     W = spdiags (w, 0, m, m);
>     C = chol (W + lambda * D′ * D);
>     z = C \ (C′ \ (w .* y));
>
> Please confirm.
>
> If so, I know of a prior example that may be of relevance.
>
> Beyond the "prior example", I expect you'd like to introduce a specific
> dependent variable, say "x"? ... rather than relying upon the indices of y?
>
> One last question, is there any license associated with the publication,
> or is the concern of the copyright?
>

There is a lot more code in the supplemental information:  entire
m-files with help text and implementations with x and y data (not just
y).  I have used a good bit of that.

There is no license, just the quoted ACS copyright that also covers what
is posted as supplemental information.

Thanks,
Jonathan