different waveform in csound lessonfiles

[Tarmo Johannes]

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Hello!

After some time I had a look to Solfege again and tried out some csound based intonation exercises. It is a ver-very important issue and really great that the exercises are there!

I wrote it also to bug-repports (not really a bug though) but i write it also to the mailing-list, if anybody is busy writing new lesson files:

I recommend to use a waveform (f-statement) with more harmonics in csound lessonfiles for intonation, especially in case of harmonic intervals:

Instead of:
f1 0 4096 10 1 ; use GEN10 to compute a sine wave

use

f1 0 4096 10 1 1.25 0.95 0.8 0.6 0.4 0.2 ; sine wave with 6 overtones

or similar. You can experiment with the ratio and number of the harmonics.

Why? - Two simultanously sounding notes are in tune when their harmonics coinside as much as possible. Otherwise you will hear the so called beating or pulsation. So it makes actually very little sense if the signal is just sine waves with no harmonics (as it is now). In reality, of course, there is no TRUE sine tone because all loudspeakers and also our ears add harmonics so we can still decide. But if we add the harmonics to the waveform (and it is so easy with csound!), making difference is so much easier!

Have a look at http://code.google.com/p/solfege/issues/detail?id=137&q=csound for some examples.

greetings!
tarmo

PS maybe the waveform I suggested is not the most beautiful one. It is something like flute but I did not take much care.. If yoy want me, I can experiment to find more musical one!

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[Tom Cato Amundsen]

Hello

It sounds like you know what you are talking about. I have never used CSound for anything except creating

the lesson-files/share/sinus.orc file in solfege 3.14 and generated some lesson files. So I cannot even try your example without digging into the csound manual. And right now, I really have to finish 3.15.

I would really get better sound in the csound exercises. In addition to something like a flute or violin, maybe a more percussive sound, for example similar to a piano sound, would be useful. Can you send me a matching .orc and .sco file when you have some sounds ready that I can feed directly to CSound. I can modify two working files into exercises, but getting "f1 0 4096 10 1 1.25 0.95 0.8 0.6 0.4 0.2" to work with the existing score code in the lesson files is beyond what I can do in 5 minutes...

Tom Cato

0-knowledge about csound

On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 12:24 AM, Tarmo Johannes <tarmo@...> wrote:

Hello!

After some time I had a look to Solfege again and tried out some csound based intonation exercises. It is a ver-very important issue and really great that the exercises are there!

I wrote it also to bug-repports (not really a bug though) but i write it also to the mailing-list, if anybody is busy writing new lesson files:

I recommend to use a waveform (f-statement) with more harmonics in csound lessonfiles for intonation, especially in case of harmonic intervals:

Instead of:
f1 0 4096 10 1 ; use GEN10 to compute a sine wave

use

f1 0 4096 10 1 1.25 0.95 0.8 0.6 0.4 0.2 ; sine wave with 6 overtones

or similar. You can experiment with the ratio and number of the harmonics.

Why? - Two simultanously sounding notes are in tune when their harmonics coinside as much as possible. Otherwise you will hear the so called beating or pulsation. So it makes actually very little sense if the signal is just sine waves with no harmonics (as it is now). In reality, of course, there is no TRUE sine tone because all loudspeakers and also our ears add harmonics so we can still decide. But if we add the harmonics to the waveform (and it is so easy with csound!), making difference is so much easier!

Have a look at http://code.google.com/p/solfege/issues/detail?id=137&q=csound for some examples.

greetings!
tarmo

PS maybe the waveform I suggested is not the most beautiful one. It is something like flute but I did not take much care.. If yoy want me, I can experiment to find more musical one!

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--
Tom Cato Amundsen <tca@...>                 http://www.solfege.org/
GNU Solfege - free ear training    http://www.gnu.org/software/solfege/

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[Tarmo Johannes]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Hello

On Sunday 20 September 2009 15:04:39 Tom Cato Amundsen wrote:
> I would really get better sound in the csound exercises. In addition to
> something like a flute or violin, maybe a more percussive sound, for example
> similar to a piano sound, would be useful. Can you send me a matching .orc
> and .sco file when you have some sounds ready that I can feed directly to
> CSound.

I would be happy to help. I am not expert on csound but I will look for better sounding instrument declarations and prepare the .orc and .sco files.

> I can modify two working files into exercises, but getting "f1 0
> 4096 10 1 1.25 0.95 0.8 0.6 0.4 0.2" to work with the existing score code in
> the lesson files is beyond what I can do in 5 minutes...

well, it takes actually 10 seconds... what I did was:

sed -i 's/f1 0 4096 10 1/f1 0 4096 10 1 1.25 0.95 0.8 0.6 0.4 0.2/g' csound*harmonic*

in ~/lesson-files

It makes the difference really MUCH clearer.

I made the replacement now only for harmonic interval exercises but actually it would help also for the melodic intervals.

best!

The line 'f1 0 4096 10 1 1.25 0.95 0.8 0.6 0.4 0.2' means - create sine wave with haromics that have described relative amplitude (the numbers after '10': 1 - 1st harmonic 100% of the given amplitude, 2nd 125 % etc)

tarmo
>
> Tom Cato
> 0-knowledge about csound
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 12:24 AM, Tarmo Johannes <tarmo@...>wrote:
>
> > Hello!
> >
> >
> > After some time I had a look to Solfege again and tried out some csound
> > based intonation exercises. It is a ver-very important issue and really
> > great that the exercises are there!
> >
> >
> > I wrote it also to bug-repports (not really a bug though) but i write it
> > also to the mailing-list, if anybody is busy writing new lesson files:
> >
> >
> > I recommend to use a waveform (f-statement) with more harmonics in csound
> > lessonfiles for intonation, especially in case of harmonic intervals:
> >
> >
> > Instead of:
> > f1 0 4096 10 1 ; use GEN10 to compute a sine wave
> >
> >
> > use
> >
> >
> > f1 0 4096 10 1 1.25 0.95 0.8 0.6 0.4 0.2 ; sine wave with 6 overtones
> >
> >
> > or similar. You can experiment with the ratio and number of the harmonics.
> >
> >
> > Why? - Two simultanously sounding notes are in tune when their harmonics
> > coinside as much as possible. Otherwise you will hear the so called beating
> > or pulsation. So it makes actually very little sense if the signal is just
> > sine waves with no harmonics (as it is now). In reality, of course, there is
> > no TRUE sine tone because all loudspeakers and also our ears add harmonics
> > so we can still decide. But if we add the harmonics to the waveform (and it
> > is so easy with csound!), making difference is so much easier!
> >
> >
> > Have a look at
> > http://code.google.com/p/solfege/issues/detail?id=137&q=csound for some
> > examples.
> >
> >
> > greetings!
> > tarmo
> >
> >
> > PS maybe the waveform I suggested is not the most beautiful one. It is
> > something like flute but I did not take much care.. If yoy want me, I can
> > experiment to find more musical one!
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Come build with us! The BlackBerry&reg; Developer Conference in SF, CA
> > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
> > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9&#45;12, 2009. Register now&#33;
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf
> > _______________________________________________
> > Solfege-devel mailing list
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to solfege-devel-request@...
> > with a subject of "unsubscribe", or visit
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/solfege-devel
> >
> >
>
>
>

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