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djgpp
by Imre Leber
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After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering what the overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS utilities to a DJGPP based platform.
This would give us full LFN support for free. And Jim said repeatetly that he wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by Andreas Berger
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I have always had problem being able to establish a permanent handle to
lower memory with 32 bit DJGPP. It seems that you need to create a new one every time you access the lower memory since the handle seems to become invalid at the strangest moments. This is quite tedious. Imre Leber wrote: > After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering what the overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS utilities to a DJGPP based platform. > > This would give us full LFN support for free. And Jim said repeatetly that he wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-devel mailing list > Freedos-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by Florian Xaver-2
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Yes, I agree! Bbut I don't think, that all utitlities needs to be
converted. But DJGPP and Open-Watcom should become the "Free-DOS compilers". More "GNU programs" could be included into Free-DOS. bye, Flo On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:48:35 +0200, Imre Leber <imre.leber@...> wrote: > After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering what > the overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS > utilities to a DJGPP based platform. > > This would give us full LFN support for free. And Jim said repeatetly > that he wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share > your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-devel mailing list > Freedos-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by tom ehlert
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Hello Imre,
> After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering > what the overall interest of the project would be to move the > FreeDOS utilities to a DJGPP based platform. Thumbs down. > This would give us full LFN support for free. it should be easy to move the DJGPP libraries for about 5 functions open() chdir() rename() stat() to TC/WC, without much trouble > And Jim said > repeatetly that he wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming. 64 Bit ? you forgot multithreading + multiprocessor support ;) Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by tom ehlert
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>>> And Jim said
>>> repeatetly that he wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming. >>64 Bit ? >>you forgot multithreading + multiprocessor support ;) >> > We've got plenty of multithreading. Check the cd again. what exactly ? 'see the CD' isn't exactly helpful Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by Joris van Rantwijk-3
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On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 11:48:35AM +0000, Imre Leber wrote: > After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering > what the overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS > utilities to a DJGPP based platform. Does this imply that FreeDOS would become a 32-bit OS and that the utilities would no longer work on a real (16-bit) IBM PC? Since such plans have come up several times lately, I would like to emphasize the following thing: For me, a FreeDOS that does not properly run on a real PC is utterly useless. In fact I think it would be ridiculous to make a 386-only system and calling it XxxDOS, since all versions of "the real DOS" do run on original PC hardware. Sometimes these concerns are waved away with the argument that pre-386 systems are not used anymore except by hobbyists. My reply to that is that FreeDOS itself is not used by anybody except hobbyists. Kicking out everybody with old hardware and emulators sounds like a bad move. Joris. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by lyricalnanoha
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On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Joris van Rantwijk wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 11:48:35AM +0000, Imre Leber wrote: >> After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering >> what the overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS >> utilities to a DJGPP based platform. > > Does this imply that FreeDOS would become a 32-bit OS and that > the utilities would no longer work on a real (16-bit) IBM PC? > > Since such plans have come up several times lately, I would like > to emphasize the following thing: > > For me, a FreeDOS that does not properly run on a real PC is utterly > useless. In fact I think it would be ridiculous to make a 386-only > system and calling it XxxDOS, since all versions of "the real DOS" > do run on original PC hardware. > > Sometimes these concerns are waved away with the argument that pre-386 > systems are not used anymore except by hobbyists. My reply to that is > that FreeDOS itself is not used by anybody except hobbyists. Kicking > out everybody with old hardware and emulators sounds like a bad move. > > Joris. DR-DOS still works on an 8086. ROM-DOS works on an 80186 (but not an 8086). I think even RxDOS will run on an 8086, but its compatibility leaves much to be desired. If FreeDOS were to go 386-only... then someone might fork it to keep it 8086-compatible. -uso. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by TG-6
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Hmmm...lets see...
FreeDOS compiled with DJGPP... The OS can boot the same way, the go32 extender can be added to all the executables to run in protected mode on 386 and higher machines (386 is the baseline for LFN anyways, right), so basically the installer would have to do a processor check as follows: If CPU < 386 install FreeDOS Classic (real mode version) else install FreDOS/XM (real mode boot, DPMI utilities) FreeDOS/XM could be rewritten totally in protected mode, but then real mode subsystem would have to be written to allow real mode apps to run. I'm sure someone (like me) is gonna run Norton Editor 1.3 on FreeDOS/XM and we all know about NE's fast screen writes (I've seen snow on many a CGA monitor)... Well there are my thoughts, but what happens with FreeDOS/32 and ReactOS? -T --- Original Message ----- From: "Lyrical Nanoha" <lyricalnanoha@...> To: <freedos-devel@...> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp > On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Joris van Rantwijk wrote: > >> On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 11:48:35AM +0000, Imre Leber wrote: >>> After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering >>> what the overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS >>> utilities to a DJGPP based platform. >> >> Does this imply that FreeDOS would become a 32-bit OS and that >> the utilities would no longer work on a real (16-bit) IBM PC? >> >> Since such plans have come up several times lately, I would like >> to emphasize the following thing: >> >> For me, a FreeDOS that does not properly run on a real PC is utterly >> useless. In fact I think it would be ridiculous to make a 386-only >> system and calling it XxxDOS, since all versions of "the real DOS" >> do run on original PC hardware. >> >> Sometimes these concerns are waved away with the argument that pre-386 >> systems are not used anymore except by hobbyists. My reply to that is >> that FreeDOS itself is not used by anybody except hobbyists. Kicking >> out everybody with old hardware and emulators sounds like a bad move. >> >> Joris. > > DR-DOS still works on an 8086. ROM-DOS works on an 80186 (but not an > 8086). I think even RxDOS will run on an 8086, but its compatibility > leaves much to be desired. If FreeDOS were to go 386-only... then someone > might fork it to keep it 8086-compatible. > > -uso. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share > your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-devel mailing list > Freedos-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by Blair Campbell
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FreeDOS should never become an entirely 32-bit OS IMHO. FreeDOS-32 is
working on a 32-bit DOS. If the utilities CAN compile as 32-bit, that is great, but 16-bit apps tend to be much smaller for most uses, and for utilities like TSRs, it is virtually impossible for them to be 32-bit. With utilities like FIND, you can do everything in just a couple of kb, whereas with DJGPP, the same app would likely be up to 300-500 kb. On 9/30/06, TG <tonebone@...> wrote: > Hmmm...lets see... > > FreeDOS compiled with DJGPP... > > The OS can boot the same way, the go32 extender can be added to all the > executables to run in protected mode on 386 and higher machines (386 is the > baseline for LFN anyways, right), so basically the installer would have to > do a processor check as follows: > > If CPU < 386 > install FreeDOS Classic (real mode version) > else > install FreDOS/XM (real mode boot, DPMI utilities) > > FreeDOS/XM could be rewritten totally in protected mode, but then real mode > subsystem would have to be written to allow real mode apps to run. I'm sure > someone (like me) is gonna run Norton Editor 1.3 on FreeDOS/XM and we all > know about NE's fast screen writes (I've seen snow on many a CGA monitor)... > > Well there are my thoughts, but what happens with FreeDOS/32 and ReactOS? > > -T > > --- Original Message ----- > From: "Lyrical Nanoha" <lyricalnanoha@...> > To: <freedos-devel@...> > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 7:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp > > > > On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Joris van Rantwijk wrote: > > > >> On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 11:48:35AM +0000, Imre Leber wrote: > >>> After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering > >>> what the overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS > >>> utilities to a DJGPP based platform. > >> > >> Does this imply that FreeDOS would become a 32-bit OS and that > >> the utilities would no longer work on a real (16-bit) IBM PC? > >> > >> Since such plans have come up several times lately, I would like > >> to emphasize the following thing: > >> > >> For me, a FreeDOS that does not properly run on a real PC is utterly > >> useless. In fact I think it would be ridiculous to make a 386-only > >> system and calling it XxxDOS, since all versions of "the real DOS" > >> do run on original PC hardware. > >> > >> Sometimes these concerns are waved away with the argument that pre-386 > >> systems are not used anymore except by hobbyists. My reply to that is > >> that FreeDOS itself is not used by anybody except hobbyists. Kicking > >> out everybody with old hardware and emulators sounds like a bad move. > >> > >> Joris. > > > > DR-DOS still works on an 8086. ROM-DOS works on an 80186 (but not an > > 8086). I think even RxDOS will run on an 8086, but its compatibility > > leaves much to be desired. If FreeDOS were to go 386-only... then someone > > might fork it to keep it 8086-compatible. > > > > -uso. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share > > your > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash > > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > > _______________________________________________ > > Freedos-devel mailing list > > Freedos-devel@... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Freedos-devel mailing list > Freedos-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel > -- Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change color and fall from the trees. David Letterman (1947 - ) See ya ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by Florian Xaver-2
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> Sometimes these concerns are waved away with the argument that pre-386
> systems are not used anymore except by hobbyists. My reply to that is > that FreeDOS itself is not used by anybody except hobbyists. Kicking > out everybody with old hardware and emulators sounds like a bad move. No, please, step by step :-) Moving to 32-Bit/64-Bit WILL and should be slow. ;-) Bye Flo ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by Johnson Lam
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On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:48:35 +0000, you wrote:
Hi Imre, >After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering what the overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS utilities to a DJGPP based platform. Eric always have long talk, most of them useful but the talk can be summarized: >This would give us full LFN support for free. And Jim said repeatetly that he wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming. Occam's Razor. Rgds, Johnson. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by Johnson Lam
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On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:03:12 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:
>DR-DOS still works on an 8086. ROM-DOS works on an 80186 (but not an >8086). I think even RxDOS will run on an 8086, but its compatibility >leaves much to be desired. If FreeDOS were to go 386-only... then someone >might fork it to keep it 8086-compatible. Just a matter of priority. Which first, 8086 or 80386. If the program don't need to mess with memory, why not keep it 8086 based? If the program need V86 mode or protected mode you have no way to keep it 8086. For example, XCOPY should be keep 8086, work in conventional memory. since it's a basic "external command" of DOS, following the DOS tradition make no harm. If we need something more powerful, why not use XXCOPY or TCOPY or CCOPY? Rgds, Johnson. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by Robert Riebisch
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Johnson Lam wrote:
> Which first, 8086 or 80386. If the program don't need to mess with > memory, why not keep it 8086 based? Fully ACK! As PM apps tend to be much larger than their 8086 counterpart, FreeDOS would waste a lot of memory without a benefit. If someone wants a true PM OS, why would he/she choose FreeDOS? For the average user who probably might be interested in anything else than Windows, there are much more possibilities in GNU/Linux or BSD. So don't let FreeDOS become just another PM OS! Robert Riebisch -- BTTR Software http://www.bttr-software.de/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by Arkady V.Belousov
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Hi!
30-Сен-2006 21:54 _tonebone@... (TG) wrote to <freedos-devel@...>: T> (386 is the baseline for LFN anyways, right), Wrong. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by Joris van Rantwijk-3
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Lyrical Nanoha wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Joris van Rantwijk wrote: >>For me, a FreeDOS that does not properly run on a real PC is utterly >>useless. > DR-DOS still works on an 8086. ROM-DOS works on an 80186 (but not an > 8086). I think even RxDOS will run on an 8086, but its compatibility > leaves much to be desired. MS-DOS 3.20 also runs fine on my 8088, but that is not the point. I do appreciate your helpful suggestions, but at the same time you seem to suggest that 8086 compatibility should not be a priority for FreeDOS. I strongly disagree with that view. The status of FreeDOS as a drop-in replacement for MS-DOS is at stake. If FreeDOS moves to 32-bit, people with old hardware have to go back to their illegal copies of MS-DOS. > If FreeDOS were to go 386-only... then someone > might fork it to keep it 8086-compatible. Only with a lot of extra effort. Besides, I think there is little to be gained from moving to 32-bit: - If the currently used C compilers are bad, we simply need to find a better 16-bit compiler. (The compiler would not necessarily have to run on 16-bit, just provide it as a target.) Some work has been done on a 16-bit target for GCC; LCC may also be an option. I am willing to look into this and report on the options. - If the currently used libraries are bad (no LFN support or something), we simply need to fix that. - If people are determined to write a 32-bit OS just for the sake of it, fine but why are you calling it DOS? Note that I do not oppose specific extensions for modern hardware (HIMEM.SYS), or even a compile time option to optimize for 32-bit, as long as the main part of the OS remains backwards compatible. Joris. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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Re: djgpp
by lyricalnanoha
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On Sun, 1 Oct 2006, Johnson Lam wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:48:35 +0000, you wrote: > > Hi Imre, > >> After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering what >> the overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS >> utilities to a DJGPP based platform. > > Eric always have long talk, most of them useful but the talk can be > summarized: > >> This would give us full LFN support for free. And Jim said repeatetly >> that he wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming. > > Occam's Razor. Isn't there a stdio95.lib or something that's GPL and provides the LFN stuff? And would there really be any benefit to making DOS 386-specific? -uso. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV _______________________________________________ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel |
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