drum scanners or high-end flatbeds: any hope?

[David Heinrich]

I'm interested in scanning 4x5 transparency film, and would like to have something a little better than the Epson V750 (which gets a real optical resolution of 3200 at best, but more likely around 2200 - 2400, despite stating more than 6000 dpi). Hence, I'm interested in entry-level drum-scanners, like the Howtek 4500, or high-end flatbed scanners, like the Creo Eversmart series or Creo iQsmart series. Has anyone done anything on this? As far as I can tell, there isn't support for any drum scanners, dedicated film scanners, or high-end scanners at all on Linux? (the best scanners I see supported, like the Epson V750, are at best high-end consumer scanners, not suitable for enlargements beyond 3-4x).

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[m. allan noah-3]

Developers can only write software for machines they can access and/or
get protocol documentation for. These machines are quite expensive,
and they are rare. Hence, out of the range of most volunteer
programmers.

allan

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:18 PM, David Heinrich <dh003i@...> wrote:

> I'm interested in scanning 4x5 transparency film, and would like to have
> something a little better than the Epson V750 (which gets a real optical
> resolution of 3200 at best, but more likely around 2200 - 2400, despite
> stating more than 6000 dpi). Hence, I'm interested in entry-level
> drum-scanners, like the Howtek 4500, or high-end flatbed scanners, like the
> Creo Eversmart series or Creo iQsmart series. Has anyone done anything on
> this? As far as I can tell, there isn't support for any drum scanners,
> dedicated film scanners, or high-end scanners at all on Linux? (the best
> scanners I see supported, like the Epson V750, are at best high-end consumer
> scanners, not suitable for enlargements beyond 3-4x).
>
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[David Heinrich]

Ok, thanks to the suggestion by Allan, I'm e-mailing with this suggestion...I may be able to eventually buy one of these high-end flat-beds or drum-scanners (that is, high-end compared to the Epson V750, not high-end as in the $80k Aztek Premier) and have it shipped to a developer.

Developers, what are you suggestions for what may be a good thing to look for? The Howtek 4500 drum seems to be commonly available, along with the Creo Eversmart flatbed series (I think Creo is now owned by Kodak). However, even the brand name of these companies is not mentioned on the sane-project website. Of the high-end flatbed or drum scanners listed on the Large Format scanner comparison page, only the Microtek brand are mentioned on the sane page (and not any of the scanners relevant to me scanning in 4x5 inch and 8x10 inch film). Someone on LF forum suggested, however, that it might be easier to adapt a driver for a low-end scanner of the same brand to a high-end flatbed or drum (by high-end, I mean pro scanners with real resolutions of 2500 dpi or higher, not marketing hype of 6400 dpi).

So, any suggestions?

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 3:24 PM, m. allan noah <kitno455@...> wrote:

Some developers do such things for free, but slowly. Other developers
do such things more quickly, but for a price. Either way you'll get
the code eventually, but it depends on how long you are willing to
wait. :)

allan

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 3:19 PM, David Heinrich <dh003i@...> wrote:
> I sometimes see Howtek 4500's on sale for eBay for reasonable prices (under
> $2k). Would having access to it assist in the process? I.e., if someone were
> to buy it and have it shipped o the appropriate developers for however long
> it might take to work on drivers?
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 3:13 PM, m. allan noah <kitno455@...> wrote:
>>
>> Developers can only write software for machines they can access and/or
>> get protocol documentation for. These machines are quite expensive,
>> and they are rare. Hence, out of the range of most volunteer
>> programmers.
>>
>> allan
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:18 PM, David Heinrich <dh003i@...> wrote:
>> > I'm interested in scanning 4x5 transparency film, and would like to have
>> > something a little better than the Epson V750 (which gets a real optical
>> > resolution of 3200 at best, but more likely around 2200 - 2400, despite
>> > stating more than 6000 dpi). Hence, I'm interested in entry-level
>> > drum-scanners, like the Howtek 4500, or high-end flatbed scanners, like
>> > the
>> > Creo Eversmart series or Creo iQsmart series. Has anyone done anything
>> > on
>> > this? As far as I can tell, there isn't support for any drum scanners,
>> > dedicated film scanners, or high-end scanners at all on Linux? (the best
>> > scanners I see supported, like the Epson V750, are at best high-end
>> > consumer
>> > scanners, not suitable for enlargements beyond 3-4x).
>> >
>> > --
>> > sane-devel mailing list: sane-devel@...
>> > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/sane-devel
>> > Unsubscribe: Send mail with subject "unsubscribe your_password"
>> >             to sane-devel-request@...
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "The truth is an offense, but not a sin"
>
>
>
> --
> Social sciences can never use experience to verify their statements --
> Ludwig von Mises
>

--

"The truth is an offense, but not a sin"

--
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[m. allan noah-3]

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:38 PM, David Heinrich <dh003i@...> wrote:

> Ok, thanks to the suggestion by Allan, I'm e-mailing with this
> suggestion...I may be able to eventually buy one of these high-end flat-beds
> or drum-scanners (that is, high-end compared to the Epson V750, not high-end
> as in the $80k Aztek Premier) and have it shipped to a developer.
>
> Developers, what are you suggestions for what may be a good thing to look
> for? The Howtek 4500 drum seems to be commonly available, along with the
> Creo Eversmart flatbed series (I think Creo is now owned by Kodak). However,
> even the brand name of these companies is not mentioned on the sane-project
> website. Of the high-end flatbed or drum scanners listed on the Large Format
> scanner comparison page, only the Microtek brand are mentioned on the sane
> page (and not any of the scanners relevant to me scanning in 4x5 inch and
> 8x10 inch film). Someone on LF forum suggested, however, that it might be
> easier to adapt a driver for a low-end scanner of the same brand to a
> high-end flatbed or drum (by high-end, I mean pro scanners with real
> resolutions of 2500 dpi or higher, not marketing hype of 6400 dpi).
>
> So, any suggestions?

Required:
1. It should use some standard port (i.e. SCSI).
2. It should have a complete copy of the windows software and any
dongles required to run it.

Extremely helpful:
1. protocol documents from the maker.
2. other user documents
3. any calibration targets

I doubt this class of machines will really share any brains with their
cheaper brothers, so don't worry about sticking with a particular
brand. The SCSI protocol is more likely to enforce consistency than
the name plate.

allan
--
"The truth is an offense, but not a sin"

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[David Heinrich]

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:28 PM, m. allan noah <kitno455@...> wrote:

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:38 PM, David Heinrich <dh003i@...> wrote:
> Ok, thanks to the suggestion by Allan, I'm e-mailing with this
> suggestion...I may be able to eventually buy one of these high-end flat-beds
> or drum-scanners (that is, high-end compared to the Epson V750, not high-end
> as in the $80k Aztek Premier) and have it shipped to a developer.
>
> Developers, what are you suggestions for what may be a good thing to look
> for? The Howtek 4500 drum seems to be commonly available, along with the
> Creo Eversmart flatbed series (I think Creo is now owned by Kodak). However,
> even the brand name of these companies is not mentioned on the sane-project
> website. Of the high-end flatbed or drum scanners listed on the Large Format
> scanner comparison page, only the Microtek brand are mentioned on the sane
> page (and not any of the scanners relevant to me scanning in 4x5 inch and
> 8x10 inch film). Someone on LF forum suggested, however, that it might be
> easier to adapt a driver for a low-end scanner of the same brand to a
> high-end flatbed or drum (by high-end, I mean pro scanners with real
> resolutions of 2500 dpi or higher, not marketing hype of 6400 dpi).
>
> So, any suggestions?

Required:
1. It should use some standard port (i.e. SCSI).
2. It should have a complete copy of the windows software and any
dongles required to run it.

Extremely helpful:
1. protocol documents from the maker.
2. other user documents
3. any calibration targets

I doubt this class of machines will really share any brains with their
cheaper brothers, so don't worry about sticking with a particular
brand. The SCSI protocol is more likely to enforce consistency than
the name plate.

 

Thank you very much for the information. I'll consider that when looking at what comes up for the drum-scanners in the future.

 

In the meantime, the support for the Epson 4990, V700, and V750 is listed as "good", which is defined as all necessary functionality being there, but some advanced functionality missing. How would one find out what functionality is missing? (might it be the ICE, which "removes" scratches via I think an IR light detecting them).

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[m. allan noah-3]

should have sent this to the list...

allan


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: m. allan noah <kitno455@...>
Date: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [sane-devel] drum scanners or high-end flatbeds: any hope?
To: David Heinrich <dh003i@...>


On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:37 PM, David Heinrich <dh003i@...> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 8:28 PM, m. allan noah <kitno455@...> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 6:38 PM, David Heinrich <dh003i@...> wrote:
>> > Ok, thanks to the suggestion by Allan, I'm e-mailing with this
>> > suggestion...I may be able to eventually buy one of these high-end
>> > flat-beds
>> > or drum-scanners (that is, high-end compared to the Epson V750, not
>> > high-end
>> > as in the $80k Aztek Premier) and have it shipped to a developer.
>> >
>> > Developers, what are you suggestions for what may be a good thing to
>> > look
>> > for? The Howtek 4500 drum seems to be commonly available, along with the
>> > Creo Eversmart flatbed series (I think Creo is now owned by Kodak).
>> > However,
>> > even the brand name of these companies is not mentioned on the
>> > sane-project
>> > website. Of the high-end flatbed or drum scanners listed on the Large
>> > Format
>> > scanner comparison page, only the Microtek brand are mentioned on the
>> > sane
>> > page (and not any of the scanners relevant to me scanning in 4x5 inch
>> > and
>> > 8x10 inch film). Someone on LF forum suggested, however, that it might
>> > be
>> > easier to adapt a driver for a low-end scanner of the same brand to a
>> > high-end flatbed or drum (by high-end, I mean pro scanners with real
>> > resolutions of 2500 dpi or higher, not marketing hype of 6400 dpi).
>> >
>> > So, any suggestions?
>>
>> Required:
>> 1. It should use some standard port (i.e. SCSI).
>> 2. It should have a complete copy of the windows software and any
>> dongles required to run it.
>>
>> Extremely helpful:
>> 1. protocol documents from the maker.
>> 2. other user documents
>> 3. any calibration targets
>>
>> I doubt this class of machines will really share any brains with their
>> cheaper brothers, so don't worry about sticking with a particular
>> brand. The SCSI protocol is more likely to enforce consistency than
>> the name plate.
>
>
> Thank you very much for the information. I'll consider that when looking at
> what comes up for the drum-scanners in the future.
>
> In the meantime, the support for the Epson 4990, V700, and V750 is listed as
> "good", which is defined as all necessary functionality being there, but
> some advanced functionality missing. How would one find out what
> functionality is missing? (might it be the ICE, which "removes" scratches
> via I think an IR light detecting them).

Most scanner 'features' like ICE on consumer grade stuff are actually
software features. It is a safe bet that those things won't work with
sane. In the case of IR, the current sane API only supports RGB data,
but there is a (slow) move underway to extend the API for IR use. The
epson2 backend already exposes a prototype version of this support, if
you are willing to build from source. It is not supported by all
front-ends yet. Actually doing something with the IR data is an
exercise for the reader :)

allan

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[Alessandro Zummo]

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 23:37:58 -0500
David Heinrich <dh003i@...> wrote:

> In the meantime, the support for the Epson 4990, V700, and V750 is listed as
> "good", which is defined as all necessary functionality being there, but
> some advanced functionality missing. How would one find out what
> functionality is missing? (might it be the ICE, which "removes" scratches
> via I think an IR light detecting them).

 Hello,

  there's some basic support for IR for some of those
 scanners (maybe all of them but I haven't tested personally ;) ) .

  The SANE API is not yet capable of infrared but you
 might be able to obtain it if you build SANE for yourself
 and use tiffscan as the frontend.

  tiffscan will happily produce a TIFF file with RGB + infrared
 which should be processed by some ICE software like VueScan,
 (ICE is a software feature, unrelated to the scanner).
 

--

 Best regards,

 Alessandro Zummo,
  Tower Technologies - Torino, Italy

  http://www.towertech.it


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[Alesh Slovak]

David Heinrich wrote:
> In the meantime, the support for the Epson 4990, V700, and V750 is
> listed as "good", which is defined as all necessary functionality being
> there, but some advanced functionality missing. How would one find out
> what functionality is missing? (might it be the ICE, which "removes"
> scratches via I think an IR light detecting them).

At least for the epkowa driver the use of "good" and "complete" is somewhat
inconsistent. epkowa, unfortunately, has no ICE support at all.

You can get more information on models supported by the epkowa driver from the
comments column in the supported scanner list found here:
http://www.sane-project.org/lists/sane-backends-external.html#S-EPKOWA

Happy scanning,
--
Alesh Slovak                    Linux Team -- AVASYS Corporation
alesh.slovak@...          http://avasys.jp

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