e-triples

[Danny Ayers]

So Kingsley, you know this stuff. OpenLink provides good products. Oh yes.

This is so in your scope, dude...ready?

plug&play out of the box e-commerce solution.

Personally I'd grumble a bit with Martin's modelling, but it is
usable. The Good Relations vocab is good enough.

Front end a la Amazon, back end triples. Linked triples.

Make it so - I reckon it could be a huge earner.

Cheers,
Danny.

--
http://danny.ayers.name

[kidehen]

Danny Ayers wrote:

> So Kingsley, you know this stuff. OpenLink provides good products. Oh yes.
>
> This is so in your scope, dude...ready?
>
> plug&play out of the box e-commerce solution.
>
> Personally I'd grumble a bit with Martin's modelling, but it is
> usable. The Good Relations vocab is good enough.
>
> Front end a la Amazon, back end triples. Linked triples.
>
> Make it so - I reckon it could be a huge earner.
>
> Cheers,
> Danny.
>
>  

Danny,

Wow, you got a bug in our offices?

Linked Open eCommerce (LOC) is coming, not just for OpenLink but for
everyone.

Of course it's GoodRelations based, of course its going to make
sophisticated use of the Linked Data Web, and most importantly, it is
going to be darn simple and obvious for end users and developers alike.

Clearly Martin, Aldo, and I haven't put out enough clues :-)  The motto
is simply this: describe what you "want" clearly and/or describe what
you "offer" clearly, then simply leave the Web to do the REST (i.e., SDQ
- Serendipitous Discovery of Relevant Things).


It's coming!

--


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen      Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

[melvincarvalho]

On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Kingsley Idehen<kidehen@...> wrote:

> Danny Ayers wrote:
>>
>> So Kingsley, you know this stuff. OpenLink provides good products. Oh yes.
>>
>> This is so in your scope, dude...ready?
>>
>> plug&play out of the box e-commerce solution.
>>
>> Personally I'd grumble a bit with Martin's modelling, but it is
>> usable. The Good Relations vocab is good enough.
>>
>> Front end a la Amazon, back end triples. Linked triples.
>>
>> Make it so - I reckon it could be a huge earner.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Danny.
>>
>>
>
> Danny,
>
> Wow, you got a bug in our offices?
>
> Linked Open eCommerce (LOC) is coming, not just for OpenLink but for
> everyone.
>
> Of course it's GoodRelations based, of course its going to make
> sophisticated use of the Linked Data Web, and most importantly, it is going
> to be darn simple and obvious for end users and developers alike.
>
> Clearly Martin, Aldo, and I haven't put out enough clues :-)  The motto is
> simply this: describe what you "want" clearly and/or describe what you
> "offer" clearly, then simply leave the Web to do the REST (i.e., SDQ -
> Serendipitous Discovery of Relevant Things).

Let's say I have a list of offers semantically marked up using
GoodRelations.  I like what I see.

Now I want to buy an item.

How do I get from LOD to LOC?

>
>
> It's coming!
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> President & CEO OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Danny Ayers]

2009/7/18 Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@...>:

> It's coming!

Great!

Knew I could depend on you - let me know if you find the bug :-)


--
http://danny.ayers.name

[kidehen]

Danny Ayers wrote:

> 2009/7/18 Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@...>:
>
>  
>> It's coming!
>>    
>
> Great!
>
> Knew I could depend on you - let me know if you find the bug :-)
>
>
>  

Okay :-)

--


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen      Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

[Martin Hepp (UniBW)]

Dear Danny,

Danny Ayers wrote:
> So Kingsley, you know this stuff. OpenLink provides good products. Oh yes.
>
> This is so in your scope, dude...ready?
>
> plug&play out of the box e-commerce solution.
>
> Personally I'd grumble a bit with Martin's modelling, but it is
> usable. The Good Relations vocab is good enough.
>  
Thanks - if you could serialize the grumbling into change requests, that
would help ;-)

Seriously, any suggestions for improvement are welcome!

Note that GoodRelations tries to strike a balance between

a)  a clean, reusable conceptual model and
b) ease of creating annotations / populating knowledge bases from
existing sources.

In case of conflict, a) is more important for GoodRelations than b),
because most transformations will take place in scripts anyway, and for
simplifying, we have several shortcuts like gr:includes now.

The key goal is that the data can be reused in as many contexts as
possible, so GoodRelations maintains conceptual distinctions that e.g.
commerce microformats don't (for example, product makes and models vs.
actual products). That may be a bit of the burden initially, but will
pay out in the long run.
> Front end a la Amazon, back end triples. Linked triples.
>
>  
Exactly. On a massive scale.
> Make it so - I reckon it could be a huge earner.
>
>  
I think so ;-) By the way: also for society, because the future wealth
of developed economies will depend on our ability to coordinate the
exchange of highly specific goods and services at much lower costs than
today. Note that there is economic evidence that 50% of the US GDP goes
into maintaining the infrastructure and institutions for exchange and trade.

See
"The World Wide Web and the Wealth of Nations: Does IT Matter?"
 http://tr.im/inaugurallecture
> Cheers,
> Danny.
>
>  

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
martin hepp
e-business & web science research group
universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen

e-mail:  mhepp@...
phone:   [phone]
fax:     [phone]
www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
         http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
skype:   mfhepp
twitter: mfhepp

Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
=================================================================

Webcast:
http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/

Recipe for Yahoo SearcMonkey:
http://tr.im/rAbN

Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009:
"Semantic Web-based E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
http://tinyurl.com/semtech-hepp

Overview article on Semantic Universe:
http://tinyurl.com/goodrelations-universe

Project page:
http://purl.org/goodrelations/

Resources for developers:
http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations

Tutorial materials:
CEC'09 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce: A Hands-on Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey
http://tr.im/grcec09


[martin_hepp.vcf]

---

begin:vcard
fn:Martin Hepp
n:Hepp;Martin
org:Bundeswehr University Munich;E-Business and Web Science Research Group
adr:;;Werner-Heisenberg-Web 39;Neubiberg;;D-85577;Germany
email;internet:mhepp@...
tel;work:[phone]
tel;pager:skype: mfhepp
url:http://www.heppnetz.de
version:2.1
end:vcard

---

[melvincarvalho]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Martin Hepp
(UniBW)<martin.hepp@...> wrote:

> Dear Danny,
>
> Danny Ayers wrote:
>>
>> So Kingsley, you know this stuff. OpenLink provides good products. Oh yes.
>>
>> This is so in your scope, dude...ready?
>>
>> plug&play out of the box e-commerce solution.
>>
>> Personally I'd grumble a bit with Martin's modelling, but it is
>> usable. The Good Relations vocab is good enough.
>>
>
> Thanks - if you could serialize the grumbling into change requests, that
> would help ;-)
>
> Seriously, any suggestions for improvement are welcome!
>
> Note that GoodRelations tries to strike a balance between
>
> a)  a clean, reusable conceptual model and
> b) ease of creating annotations / populating knowledge bases from existing
> sources.
>
> In case of conflict, a) is more important for GoodRelations than b), because
> most transformations will take place in scripts anyway, and for simplifying,
> we have several shortcuts like gr:includes now.
>
> The key goal is that the data can be reused in as many contexts as possible,
> so GoodRelations maintains conceptual distinctions that e.g. commerce
> microformats don't (for example, product makes and models vs. actual
> products). That may be a bit of the burden initially, but will pay out in
> the long run.
>>
>> Front end a la Amazon, back end triples. Linked triples.
>>
>>
>
> Exactly. On a massive scale.
>>
>> Make it so - I reckon it could be a huge earner.
>>
>>
>
> I think so ;-) By the way: also for society, because the future wealth of
> developed economies will depend on our ability to coordinate the exchange of
> highly specific goods and services at much lower costs than today. Note that
> there is economic evidence that 50% of the US GDP goes into maintaining the
> infrastructure and institutions for exchange and trade.

Enjoyed this talk, looking at the contributing factors to transaction
costs, it seems to me that linked e-triples offer a unique way to
bring down that value from the 50%.  Looking at each item you mention:

1. Low Transaction Frequency

This ties in with what has been talked about on this thread.  Put the
data out there and let the web do the REST.  So the first step is
marking up your data using good relations.  We then need mechanisms to
route interest in an good or service back to the producer, without
necessarily incurring a high overhead.  How do we do it (HTTPS POST?
SPARUL?  Web Forms?)  I think we need a proof of concept here.

I guess this also means building order and payment gateways on a
generic, and per business, basis.  Important also to obey regulatory
conditions and compliance.  This could be a lucrative business area
for anyone that is prepared to specialise in it, or perhaps some banks
are well suited to take this on.

2. Specifity

For this we need aggregators of the market, perhaps ad servers too.
Search will be a key application, so perhaps GR can help instruct
robots that want to crawl goods together and provide offerings in the
marketplace.  Yahoo is a good start, but we need many more hubs of
semantic goods, exchanges and marketplaces with innovative designs.
Semantic tagging will help with specific search, as will geo location
of the business.

3. Uncertainty / Opportunism

This was the area I found the most interesting, and also the area
where e-triples offer a unique advantage.  The concept of linking an
Agent to an ID (eg URL / email / #phone) is gaining traction these
days.  The great benefit of this is that it can be an entry point into
linked data and then proceed into trust and reputation, in order to
reduce the costs related to uncertainty / opportunism.  Ebay ratings
is a micro version of this, however imagine a global version, where
you can see reviews and ratings of a particular offering, and where a
business can see that a user is securely authenticated, and has a
reputation for making good on their transactions.

It may be interesting to mock up a system where a business can go from
marking up a product to receiving an order (perhaps by email at
first), and looking at how all the pieces fit together, then expanding
to other cases.  I havent seen the GR oscommerce plugin, so maybe that
does some of this already.  It may be interesting to work out how we
could do this technically.

>
> See
> "The World Wide Web and the Wealth of Nations: Does IT Matter?"
> http://tr.im/inaugurallecture
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Danny.
>>
>>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail:  mhepp@...
> phone:   [phone]
> fax:     [phone]
> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>        http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype:   mfhepp twitter: mfhepp
>
> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> =================================================================
>
> Webcast:
> http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/
>
> Recipe for Yahoo SearcMonkey:
> http://tr.im/rAbN
>
> Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based
> E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
> http://tinyurl.com/semtech-hepp
>
> Overview article on Semantic Universe:
> http://tinyurl.com/goodrelations-universe
>
> Project page:
> http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
> Resources for developers:
> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations
>
> Tutorial materials:
> CEC'09 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce: A Hands-on
> Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey
> http://tr.im/grcec09
>
>

[kidehen]

Melvin Carvalho wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Martin Hepp
> (UniBW)<martin.hepp@...> wrote:
>  
>> Dear Danny,
>>
>> Danny Ayers wrote:
>>    
>>> So Kingsley, you know this stuff. OpenLink provides good products. Oh yes.
>>>
>>> This is so in your scope, dude...ready?
>>>
>>> plug&play out of the box e-commerce solution.
>>>
>>> Personally I'd grumble a bit with Martin's modelling, but it is
>>> usable. The Good Relations vocab is good enough.
>>>
>>>      
>> Thanks - if you could serialize the grumbling into change requests, that
>> would help ;-)
>>
>> Seriously, any suggestions for improvement are welcome!
>>
>> Note that GoodRelations tries to strike a balance between
>>
>> a)  a clean, reusable conceptual model and
>> b) ease of creating annotations / populating knowledge bases from existing
>> sources.
>>
>> In case of conflict, a) is more important for GoodRelations than b), because
>> most transformations will take place in scripts anyway, and for simplifying,
>> we have several shortcuts like gr:includes now.
>>
>> The key goal is that the data can be reused in as many contexts as possible,
>> so GoodRelations maintains conceptual distinctions that e.g. commerce
>> microformats don't (for example, product makes and models vs. actual
>> products). That may be a bit of the burden initially, but will pay out in
>> the long run.
>>    
>>> Front end a la Amazon, back end triples. Linked triples.
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>> Exactly. On a massive scale.
>>    
>>> Make it so - I reckon it could be a huge earner.
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>> I think so ;-) By the way: also for society, because the future wealth of
>> developed economies will depend on our ability to coordinate the exchange of
>> highly specific goods and services at much lower costs than today. Note that
>> there is economic evidence that 50% of the US GDP goes into maintaining the
>> infrastructure and institutions for exchange and trade.
>>    
>
> Enjoyed this talk, looking at the contributing factors to transaction
> costs, it seems to me that linked e-triples offer a unique way to
> bring down that value from the 50%.  Looking at each item you mention:
>
> 1. Low Transaction Frequency
>
> This ties in with what has been talked about on this thread.  Put the
> data out there and let the web do the REST.  So the first step is
> marking up your data using good relations.  We then need mechanisms to
> route interest in an good or service back to the producer, without
> necessarily incurring a high overhead.  How do we do it (HTTPS POST?
> SPARUL?  Web Forms?)  I think we need a proof of concept here.
>
> I guess this also means building order and payment gateways on a
> generic, and per business, basis.  Important also to obey regulatory
> conditions and compliance.  This could be a lucrative business area
> for anyone that is prepared to specialise in it, or perhaps some banks
> are well suited to take this on.
>
> 2. Specifity
>
> For this we need aggregators of the market, perhaps ad servers too.
> Search will be a key application, so perhaps GR can help instruct
> robots that want to crawl goods together and provide offerings in the
> marketplace.  Yahoo is a good start, but we need many more hubs of
> semantic goods, exchanges and marketplaces with innovative designs.
> Semantic tagging will help with specific search, as will geo location
> of the business.
>
> 3. Uncertainty / Opportunism
>
> This was the area I found the most interesting, and also the area
> where e-triples offer a unique advantage.  The concept of linking an
> Agent to an ID (eg URL / email / #phone) is gaining traction these
> days.  The great benefit of this is that it can be an entry point into
> linked data and then proceed into trust and reputation, in order to
> reduce the costs related to uncertainty / opportunism.  Ebay ratings
> is a micro version of this, however imagine a global version, where
> you can see reviews and ratings of a particular offering, and where a
> business can see that a user is securely authenticated, and has a
> reputation for making good on their transactions.
>
> It may be interesting to mock up a system where a business can go from
> marking up a product to receiving an order (perhaps by email at
> first), and looking at how all the pieces fit together, then expanding
> to other cases.  I havent seen the GR oscommerce plugin, so maybe that
> does some of this already.  It may be interesting to work out how we
> could do this technically.
>
>  

Marvin,

Great summary analysis  :-)

If producers and consumers of goods and services are able to publish
structured descriptions of their respective offer and wish lists, using
terms from a common vocabulary, they can simply leave the Web to do the
REST courtesy of the serendipitous binding that Linked Data
facilitates.  The HTTP URI is ultimately the basic unit of value
exchange re. the World Wide Web.

BestBuy, Yahoo!, Google, and many others to come, will soon make all of
this much much clearer.

Now read or re-read:

1. http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/?id=1442
2.
http://www.seangolliher.com/2009/linked-data/serendipitous-discovery-quotient-sdq-the-future-of-seo-or-an-abstract-concept/

Kingsley

>> See
>> "The World Wide Web and the Wealth of Nations: Does IT Matter?"
>> http://tr.im/inaugurallecture
>>    
>>> Cheers,
>>> Danny.
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> martin hepp
>> e-business & web science research group
>> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>>
>> e-mail:  mhepp@...
>> phone:   [phone]
>> fax:     [phone]
>> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>        http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>> skype:   mfhepp twitter: mfhepp
>>
>> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>> =================================================================
>>
>> Webcast:
>> http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/
>>
>> Recipe for Yahoo SearcMonkey:
>> http://tr.im/rAbN
>>
>> Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based
>> E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
>> http://tinyurl.com/semtech-hepp
>>
>> Overview article on Semantic Universe:
>> http://tinyurl.com/goodrelations-universe
>>
>> Project page:
>> http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>>
>> Resources for developers:
>> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations
>>
>> Tutorial materials:
>> CEC'09 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce: A Hands-on
>> Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey
>> http://tr.im/grcec09
>>
>>
>>    

--


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen      Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

[kidehen]

Melvin Carvalho wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Kingsley Idehen<kidehen@...> wrote:
>  
>> Danny Ayers wrote:
>>    
>>> So Kingsley, you know this stuff. OpenLink provides good products. Oh yes.
>>>
>>> This is so in your scope, dude...ready?
>>>
>>> plug&play out of the box e-commerce solution.
>>>
>>> Personally I'd grumble a bit with Martin's modelling, but it is
>>> usable. The Good Relations vocab is good enough.
>>>
>>> Front end a la Amazon, back end triples. Linked triples.
>>>
>>> Make it so - I reckon it could be a huge earner.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Danny.
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>> Danny,
>>
>> Wow, you got a bug in our offices?
>>
>> Linked Open eCommerce (LOC) is coming, not just for OpenLink but for
>> everyone.
>>
>> Of course it's GoodRelations based, of course its going to make
>> sophisticated use of the Linked Data Web, and most importantly, it is going
>> to be darn simple and obvious for end users and developers alike.
>>
>> Clearly Martin, Aldo, and I haven't put out enough clues :-)  The motto is
>> simply this: describe what you "want" clearly and/or describe what you
>> "offer" clearly, then simply leave the Web to do the REST (i.e., SDQ -
>> Serendipitous Discovery of Relevant Things).
>>    
>
> Let's say I have a list of offers semantically marked up using
> GoodRelations.  I like what I see.
>
> Now I want to buy an item.
>
> How do I get from LOD to LOC?
>  

Apologies for my late response, I've only just seen this post.

Answer: you can make a Linked Data mesh from LOD by combining static and
dynamically generated Linked Data. Remember those Proxy URIs that our
Sponger produces for 30+ Web accessible resource types? Also note, we've
been looking up and meshing (sort of constrained Forward Chaining) for
quite some time now etc..  We make the linked meshes that provide
bridges between What You Want and Who Offers it .

Its all about structured data, and the basics of data access: views,
lookups, and joins, but at Web Scale.

This is one of many commercial value propositions that is 100% Linked
Data meme driven.

Beyond this point, you'll need to communicate with me in private if you
need more details :-)


Kingsley

>  
>> It's coming!
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> President & CEO OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    

--


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen      Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

[melvincarvalho]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Kingsley Idehen<kidehen@...> wrote:

> Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Kingsley Idehen<kidehen@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Danny Ayers wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So Kingsley, you know this stuff. OpenLink provides good products. Oh
>>>> yes.
>>>>
>>>> This is so in your scope, dude...ready?
>>>>
>>>> plug&play out of the box e-commerce solution.
>>>>
>>>> Personally I'd grumble a bit with Martin's modelling, but it is
>>>> usable. The Good Relations vocab is good enough.
>>>>
>>>> Front end a la Amazon, back end triples. Linked triples.
>>>>
>>>> Make it so - I reckon it could be a huge earner.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Danny.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Danny,
>>>
>>> Wow, you got a bug in our offices?
>>>
>>> Linked Open eCommerce (LOC) is coming, not just for OpenLink but for
>>> everyone.
>>>
>>> Of course it's GoodRelations based, of course its going to make
>>> sophisticated use of the Linked Data Web, and most importantly, it is
>>> going
>>> to be darn simple and obvious for end users and developers alike.
>>>
>>> Clearly Martin, Aldo, and I haven't put out enough clues :-)  The motto
>>> is
>>> simply this: describe what you "want" clearly and/or describe what you
>>> "offer" clearly, then simply leave the Web to do the REST (i.e., SDQ -
>>> Serendipitous Discovery of Relevant Things).
>>>
>>
>> Let's say I have a list of offers semantically marked up using
>> GoodRelations.  I like what I see.
>>
>> Now I want to buy an item.
>>
>> How do I get from LOD to LOC?
>>
>
> Apologies for my late response, I've only just seen this post.
>
> Answer: you can make a Linked Data mesh from LOD by combining static and
> dynamically generated Linked Data. Remember those Proxy URIs that our
> Sponger produces for 30+ Web accessible resource types? Also note, we've
> been looking up and meshing (sort of constrained Forward Chaining) for quite
> some time now etc..  We make the linked meshes that provide bridges between
> What You Want and Who Offers it .

Yes, I like these spongers, I think they can be very useful for bridging

>
> Its all about structured data, and the basics of data access: views,
> lookups, and joins, but at Web Scale.

Now structured data is great, but how do we work with those businesses
that have not yet the ability to handle structured REQUESTS

I wonder, would it be an idea to send purchase orders via EMAIL marked
up in the same RDFa that is used on the form.  So the workflow would
be something like:

1. Business makes up page in RDF(a)
2. User clicks "Buy" Button (or order, or indication)
3. Attempt to send structured data (including product references) to a
discovered endpoint, if one exists
4. If none found, use a bridge to access the an order gateway
5. Send an email in stuctured GR RDFa that shows that the customer is
interested in a product

Businesses can send responses in the same way ... perhaps we can have
escrow/advertising hubs specialising on this kind of process.

>
> This is one of many commercial value propositions that is 100% Linked Data
> meme driven.
>
> Beyond this point, you'll need to communicate with me in private if you need
> more details :-)
>
>
> Kingsley
>>
>>
>>>
>>> It's coming!
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>> President & CEO OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> President & CEO OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>
>
>
>
>

[kidehen]

Melvin Carvalho wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Kingsley Idehen<kidehen@...> wrote:
>  
>> Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>    
>>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Kingsley Idehen<kidehen@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>> Danny Ayers wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>> So Kingsley, you know this stuff. OpenLink provides good products. Oh
>>>>> yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is so in your scope, dude...ready?
>>>>>
>>>>> plug&play out of the box e-commerce solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I'd grumble a bit with Martin's modelling, but it is
>>>>> usable. The Good Relations vocab is good enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Front end a la Amazon, back end triples. Linked triples.
>>>>>
>>>>> Make it so - I reckon it could be a huge earner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Danny.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>> Danny,
>>>>
>>>> Wow, you got a bug in our offices?
>>>>
>>>> Linked Open eCommerce (LOC) is coming, not just for OpenLink but for
>>>> everyone.
>>>>
>>>> Of course it's GoodRelations based, of course its going to make
>>>> sophisticated use of the Linked Data Web, and most importantly, it is
>>>> going
>>>> to be darn simple and obvious for end users and developers alike.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly Martin, Aldo, and I haven't put out enough clues :-)  The motto
>>>> is
>>>> simply this: describe what you "want" clearly and/or describe what you
>>>> "offer" clearly, then simply leave the Web to do the REST (i.e., SDQ -
>>>> Serendipitous Discovery of Relevant Things).
>>>>
>>>>        
>>> Let's say I have a list of offers semantically marked up using
>>> GoodRelations.  I like what I see.
>>>
>>> Now I want to buy an item.
>>>
>>> How do I get from LOD to LOC?
>>>
>>>      
>> Apologies for my late response, I've only just seen this post.
>>
>> Answer: you can make a Linked Data mesh from LOD by combining static and
>> dynamically generated Linked Data. Remember those Proxy URIs that our
>> Sponger produces for 30+ Web accessible resource types? Also note, we've
>> been looking up and meshing (sort of constrained Forward Chaining) for quite
>> some time now etc..  We make the linked meshes that provide bridges between
>> What You Want and Who Offers it .
>>    
>
> Yes, I like these spongers, I think they can be very useful for bridging
>
>  
>> Its all about structured data, and the basics of data access: views,
>> lookups, and joins, but at Web Scale.
>>    
>
> Now structured data is great, but how do we work with those businesses
> that have not yet the ability to handle structured REQUESTS
>
> I wonder, would it be an idea to send purchase orders via EMAIL marked
> up in the same RDFa that is used on the form.  So the workflow would
> be something like:
>
> 1. Business makes up page in RDF(a)
> 2. User clicks "Buy" Button (or order, or indication)
> 3. Attempt to send structured data (including product references) to a
> discovered endpoint, if one exists
> 4. If none found, use a bridge to access the an order gateway
> 5. Send an email in stuctured GR RDFa that shows that the customer is
> interested in a product
>
> Businesses can send responses in the same way ... perhaps we can have
> escrow/advertising hubs specialising on this kind of process.
>  

Yes, one of several ways :-)

As you can imagine, there will be lots of dimensions to all of this just
as we have in real life. The major productivity boost come from that
fact that its all going to be digital.

Also think about FOAF+SSL and what it brings to the table amongst other
things.

Kingsley

>  
>> This is one of many commercial value propositions that is 100% Linked Data
>> meme driven.
>>
>> Beyond this point, you'll need to communicate with me in private if you need
>> more details :-)
>>
>>
>> Kingsley
>>    
>>>      
>>>> It's coming!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>>> President & CEO OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>> --
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> President & CEO OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>
>  

--


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen      Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

[Danny Ayers]

2009/7/24 Martin Hepp (UniBW) <martin.hepp@...>:

>> Personally I'd grumble a bit with Martin's modelling, but it is
>> usable. The Good Relations vocab is good enough.
>>
>
> Thanks - if you could serialize the grumbling into change requests, that
> would help ;-)

Maybe 'grumble' was a bit strong - I've noodled with product
description stuff in the past enough to gather it's pretty hard, and
'good enough' is impressive :)

Looking again at the vocab, the only significant part I'd do
differently is ProductOrService (and similarly structured related
classes). While in the context of selling stuff this combination fits
well, there are big differences nearby, e.g. physical characteristics,
means of delivery.

So given that OR is pretty straightforward in RDF(S),  I reckon p-s
could usefully be separated, though some finesse would be needed. A
non-breaking tweak would be to hang properties off these classes to
(somehow) state whether the thing in question was a Product or a
Service.

Cheers,
Danny.

--
http://danny.ayers.name

[Vlad Tanasescu-2]

---------------------------------
CALL FOR PAPERS: OneSpace2009

[ apologies for multiple copies ]
---------------------------------

2nd International Workshop on Blending Physical and Digital Spaces on
the Internet (OneSpace2009)
http://onespace.ace.ed.ac.uk/2009/

In conjunction with the Future Internet Symposium 2009 (FIS2009)
http://www.fis2009.org/

September 1, 2009, Berlin (Germany)

++ Deadline for submission: Aug 07, 2009 ++
++ Full papers and position papers invited ++

============================================================

The Second International Workshop on Blending Physical and Digital
Spaces on the Internet (OneSpace2009) will be held in conjunction with
the Future Internet Symposium 2009 (FIS2009) in Berlin on 1 September 2009.

We welcome technical papers and shorter position papers addressing the
identification and study of the complex relationship of the Internet
with space, place, geography and distance, whether physical or virtual.
Technologies as well as novel ideas, experiments, and insights
originating from interdisciplinary viewpoints, including Internet,
computer and GI sciences, humanities, digital media, and social sciences
are welcome.

Important dates
---------------
* Submission deadline:       Aug 07, 2009
* Acceptance Notification:   Aug 17, 2009
* Camera-ready paper:         Aug 24, 2009
* Workshop date:       Sep 01, 2009

Description
----------------

OneSpace proposes to contribute to the cross-domain exploration of how
Internet technologies and spatial notions co-exist and evolve.

One of the most important effects of the Internet and of the Web has
been to relax spatial and temporal constraints on human activities – the
so called "space-time collapse" – allowing fast global access to
information as well as to physical resources and services. Recently this
movement accelerated, due to the success of mobile devices such as the
iPhone allowing almost ubiquitous mobile access to the Internet, to the
generalisation of digital social interaction through platforms such as
Facebook and Twitter, to the virtual environments provided on gaming
platforms enabled by the Internet, instant communication supported by
popular VOIP providers such as Skype, and an emerging web of things.
Many now spend as much time involved in digital spaces over the Internet
than in "real" ones, and continuously update the digital with elements
of their physical life in "lifestreaming" process. Moreover reality
itself is augmented by information collected from the Internet, through
the increasing availability of GPS devices that ease location based
search, or through "magic-lense" based applications that add information
to recognized physical elements, or reconstruct them in digital space
from various media collected on the Web.

While allowing users to experience a profound modification of their
interaction space, the Internet has familiarised us with new topologies
– alongside the prominent hyperlinked topology exhibited by the Web,
Deleuze and Guattaris's "rhizome", which has become the model of many
new forms of organization – leading to the creation of new virtual
spaces and communities. Indeed, P2P networks of devices create
semi-private sharing environments; (micro-) blogging and lifestreaming
induces new notions of spatiotemporal as well as social proximity, while
sensor and controller networks enable ubiquitous access, sensing and
interaction with the real world. Furthermore, Virtual globes and GIS
technologies continue to improve and to blur the boundaries between
spatial representation and perception by providing mashup opportunities,
photorealistic visual navigation, and three-dimensional representations.

Many agree with what came to be known as Waldo Tobler’s first law of
Geography: "Everything is related to everything else, but near things
are more related than distant things." The Internet, by establishing new
connections between geographically distant entities cannot but provide
us with a radically new image of Space and Time that this workshop is
aiming to explore in an interdisciplinary way. OneSpace proposes to take
the measure of the aforementioned developments and their repercussion as
well as to identify trends and directions for a new future blended Internet.

Topics of interest
------------------
Topics of interest include, but are not limited to:

* Representation of physical/virtual spaces and topologies

* Spatiotemporal knowledge representation (ontologies and reasoning)

* The 3D and 4D Web

* Location-based services

* The Web of sensors

* New-generation Web mapping frameworks and applications

* Mobility and ubiquity

* Application of Linked Data for physical and digital spaces

* Digital Sense of Place and Presence

* Visibility and privacy in the Internet of people and things

Submissions
-----------
The following types of contributions are welcomed:

* Position papers, 4 pages max.
* Technical papers, 4-10 pages.

Workshop Organizers
-------------------

* Vlad Tanasescu - The University of Edinburgh, UK

* Pierre Grenon – The Open University, UK

* Arno Scharl - MODUL University Vienna, Austria

* Erik Wilde - UC Berkeley, California, USA

Program Committee
-----------------

* Boris Beaude -  EPFL, Switzerland

* Susanne Boll -  University of Oldenburg, Germany

* Catherine Dolbear - Sharp Laboratories of Europe, UK

* Stefan Dietze - The Open University, UK

* Hans W. Guesgen - Massey University, New Zealand

* Puneet Kishor - University of Wisconsin, USA

* Simon McCallum -  Hedmark University College, Norway

* Femke Reitsma - University of Canterbury, NZ

* Vinny Reynolds -  National University of Ireland

* Dumitru Roman - STI Innsbruck, Austria

* Marc Wick - GeoNames.org, Switzerland

* Mike Worboys - University of Maine, USA

Further information
-------------------
The latest information about the workshop can be found at:
http://onespace.ace.ed.ac.uk/2009/

For further information, please send an email to
onespace2009@...

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

[Martin Hepp (UniBW)]

Dear Danny:
Apologies for the delay ;-)
> Looking again at the vocab, the only significant part I'd do
> differently is ProductOrService (and similarly structured related
> classes). While in the context of selling stuff this combination fits
> well, there are big differences nearby, e.g. physical characteristics,
> means of delivery.
>
>  
You are right, gr:ProductsAndServices and its subclasses combine objects
of two different kinds - basically,
- objects - "things that can be claimed to exist" (Proton)
- happings

Products are basically all objects on which property rights can be
obtained and transferred, while Services are basically happenings that
take place in the favor of someone and.

So the natural modeling would be a class gr:Product and a class gr:Service.

GoodRelations uses gr:ProductOrService, which is union of those two
classes, because with many important data sources, it is difficult to
distinguish the products from the services automatically and reliably.
Remember, we often have shop systems with several 100k items, and very
often a few percent of the entries are services.

It is basically a trade-off decision between the ease of populating the
ontology vs. maximizing the reuse of the data.

See also

http://www.heppnetz.de/files/iswc-lightning-talk-hepp3.png

Another reason is that from the commercial perspective, there are many
properties that are to be attached to both products and services, so we
need the superclass anyway.

I expect now a lot of counterarguments from people who worked on
fine-grained modeling of services ;-) Before anybody sends flames,
please note that GoodRelations aims at services only insofar as
"commodity services", like hairdressing, waste disposal, cleaning, etc.
is concerned.
 
Best
Martin

PS: See recent stats on GoodRelations adoption at
http://pingthesemanticweb.com/stats/types.php


--
--------------------------------------------------------------
martin hepp
e-business & web science research group
universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen

e-mail:  mhepp@...
phone:   [phone]
fax:     [phone]
www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
         http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
skype:   mfhepp
twitter: mfhepp

Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
=================================================================

Webcast:
http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/

Recipe for Yahoo SearcMonkey:
http://tr.im/rAbN

Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009:
"Semantic Web-based E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
http://tinyurl.com/semtech-hepp

Overview article on Semantic Universe:
http://tinyurl.com/goodrelations-universe

Project page:
http://purl.org/goodrelations/

Resources for developers:
http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations

Tutorial materials:
CEC'09 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce: A Hands-on Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey
http://tr.im/grcec09


[martin_hepp.vcf]

---

begin:vcard
fn:Martin Hepp
n:Hepp;Martin
org:Bundeswehr University Munich;E-Business and Web Science Research Group
adr:;;Werner-Heisenberg-Web 39;Neubiberg;;D-85577;Germany
email;internet:mhepp@...
tel;work:[phone]
tel;pager:skype: mfhepp
url:http://www.heppnetz.de
version:2.1
end:vcard

---

[Danny Ayers]

Thanks Martin, nice to hear the thinking behind the design choices.

2009/9/10 Martin Hepp (UniBW) <martin.hepp@...>:

> Dear Danny:
> Apologies for the delay ;-)
>>
>> Looking again at the vocab, the only significant part I'd do
>> differently is ProductOrService (and similarly structured related
>> classes). While in the context of selling stuff this combination fits
>> well, there are big differences nearby, e.g. physical characteristics,
>> means of delivery.
>>
>>
>
> You are right, gr:ProductsAndServices and its subclasses combine objects of
> two different kinds - basically,
> - objects - "things that can be claimed to exist" (Proton)
> - happings
>
> Products are basically all objects on which property rights can be obtained
> and transferred, while Services are basically happenings that take place in
> the favor of someone and.
>
> So the natural modeling would be a class gr:Product and a class gr:Service.
>
> GoodRelations uses gr:ProductOrService, which is union of those two classes,
> because with many important data sources, it is difficult to distinguish the
> products from the services automatically and reliably. Remember, we often
> have shop systems with several 100k items, and very often a few percent of
> the entries are services.
>
> It is basically a trade-off decision between the ease of populating the
> ontology vs. maximizing the reuse of the data.
>
> See also
>
> http://www.heppnetz.de/files/iswc-lightning-talk-hepp3.png
>
> Another reason is that from the commercial perspective, there are many
> properties that are to be attached to both products and services, so we need
> the superclass anyway.
>
> I expect now a lot of counterarguments from people who worked on
> fine-grained modeling of services ;-) Before anybody sends flames, please
> note that GoodRelations aims at services only insofar as "commodity
> services", like hairdressing, waste disposal, cleaning, etc. is concerned.
>
> Best
> Martin
>
> PS: See recent stats on GoodRelations adoption at
> http://pingthesemanticweb.com/stats/types.php
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail:  mhepp@...
> phone:   [phone]
> fax:     [phone]
> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>        http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype:   mfhepp twitter: mfhepp
>
> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> =================================================================
>
> Webcast:
> http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/
>
> Recipe for Yahoo SearcMonkey:
> http://tr.im/rAbN
>
> Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based
> E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
> http://tinyurl.com/semtech-hepp
>
> Overview article on Semantic Universe:
> http://tinyurl.com/goodrelations-universe
>
> Project page:
> http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
> Resources for developers:
> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations
>
> Tutorial materials:
> CEC'09 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce: A Hands-on
> Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey
> http://tr.im/grcec09
>
>

--
http://danny.ayers.name

[melvincarvalho]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Martin Hepp (UniBW)
<martin.hepp@...> wrote:

> Dear Danny,
>
> Danny Ayers wrote:
>>
>> So Kingsley, you know this stuff. OpenLink provides good products. Oh yes.
>>
>> This is so in your scope, dude...ready?
>>
>> plug&play out of the box e-commerce solution.
>>
>> Personally I'd grumble a bit with Martin's modelling, but it is
>> usable. The Good Relations vocab is good enough.
>>
>
> Thanks - if you could serialize the grumbling into change requests, that
> would help ;-)
>
> Seriously, any suggestions for improvement are welcome!
>
> Note that GoodRelations tries to strike a balance between
>
> a)  a clean, reusable conceptual model and
> b) ease of creating annotations / populating knowledge bases from existing
> sources.
>
> In case of conflict, a) is more important for GoodRelations than b), because
> most transformations will take place in scripts anyway, and for simplifying,
> we have several shortcuts like gr:includes now.
>
> The key goal is that the data can be reused in as many contexts as possible,
> so GoodRelations maintains conceptual distinctions that e.g. commerce
> microformats don't (for example, product makes and models vs. actual
> products). That may be a bit of the burden initially, but will pay out in
> the long run.
>>
>> Front end a la Amazon, back end triples. Linked triples.
>>
>>
>
> Exactly. On a massive scale.
>>
>> Make it so - I reckon it could be a huge earner.
>>
>>
>
> I think so ;-) By the way: also for society, because the future wealth of
> developed economies will depend on our ability to coordinate the exchange of
> highly specific goods and services at much lower costs than today. Note that
> there is economic evidence that 50% of the US GDP goes into maintaining the
> infrastructure and institutions for exchange and trade.

I found a nice ebook documenting this finding:

http://books.google.com/books?id=_SQh-KxeVW8C&pg=PA95&dq=Long-Term+Factors+in+American+Economic+Growth&hl=en&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=6#v=onepage&q=&f=false

>
> See
> "The World Wide Web and the Wealth of Nations: Does IT Matter?"
> http://tr.im/inaugurallecture
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Danny.
>>
>>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail:  mhepp@...
> phone:   [phone]
> fax:     [phone]
> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>        http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype:   mfhepp twitter: mfhepp
>
> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> =================================================================
>
> Webcast:
> http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/
>
> Recipe for Yahoo SearcMonkey:
> http://tr.im/rAbN
>
> Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based
> E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
> http://tinyurl.com/semtech-hepp
>
> Overview article on Semantic Universe:
> http://tinyurl.com/goodrelations-universe
>
> Project page:
> http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
> Resources for developers:
> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations
>
> Tutorial materials:
> CEC'09 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce: A Hands-on
> Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey
> http://tr.im/grcec09
>
>

[Martin Hepp (UniBW)]

Hi Melvin,
that was the work I was referring to in my original post :-)

I think so ;-) By the way: also for society, because the future wealth of
developed economies will depend on our ability to coordinate the exchange of
highly specific goods and services at much lower costs than today. Note that
there is economic evidence that 50% of the US GDP goes into maintaining the
infrastructure and institutions for exchange and trade.
    

I found a nice ebook documenting this finding:

http://books.google.com/books?id=_SQh-KxeVW8C&pg=PA95&dq=Long-Term+Factors+in+American+Economic+Growth&hl=en&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=6#v=onepage&q=&f=false

  

See
"The World Wide Web and the Wealth of Nations: Does IT Matter?"
http://tr.im/inaugurallecture
    

Cheers,
Danny.


      

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
martin hepp
e-business & web science research group
universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen

e-mail:  mhepp@...
phone:   [phone]
fax:     [phone]
www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
       http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
skype:   mfhepp twitter: mfhepp

Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
=================================================================

Webcast:
http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/

Recipe for Yahoo SearcMonkey:
http://tr.im/rAbN

Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based
E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
http://tinyurl.com/semtech-hepp

Overview article on Semantic Universe:
http://tinyurl.com/goodrelations-universe

Project page:
http://purl.org/goodrelations/

Resources for developers:
http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations

Tutorial materials:
CEC'09 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce: A Hands-on
Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey
http://tr.im/grcec09


    

[martin_hepp.vcf]

---

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fn:Martin Hepp
n:Hepp;Martin
org:Bundeswehr University Munich;E-Business and Web Science Research Group
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tel;work:[phone]
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---