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entorhinal cortex
by Petra-3
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Hi everybody!
Has somebody read any articles about the relationship between damage of the entorhinal cortex and Alzheimer's disease? I'm trying to work on that topic and find it very difficult to find/get informations. Thanks! Petra _______________________________________________ Neur-sci mailing list Neur-sci@... http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/neur-sci |
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Re: entorhinal cortex
by Peter F-2
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"Petra" <petra.proeglhoef@...> wrote in message news:1140541502.167858.128800@...... > Hi everybody! > > Has somebody read any articles about the relationship between damage of > the entorhinal cortex and Alzheimer's disease? I'm trying to work on > that topic and find it very difficult to find/get informations. [Sorry for not saying anything other than that some googling might satisfying your appetite for information.] I am seeing that there is an opportunity to connect (at least conceptually) this region of the cerebral cortex with the by Radium (recent poster in this NG) indirectly pointed out possibility of a conditioning for a reflexive and habitual maintenance of a highly selective unconsciousness of certain traumatically painful (including emotionally or psychologically so) stored (or imprinted) experiences. And, that such a staving off, of "conditioned-in" [and chronically kept as if "hibernated" - i.e. specifically, not generally, so - but unconsciously remembered (or "reverberating") stressors -, and effecting symptoms *nevertheless*] potentially self-defeatingly distressful endogenous signals thus chronically caused by *no longer environmentally current* "specific hibernation imploring type (~traumatizing) situations", can in combination with other factors (e.g. a chronically elevated secretion of cortisol) strongly contribute to the onset of Alzheimer's disease amongst many other somatic and psychological symptoms of 'dis_ease'. All this can be insight-inspiringly inserted (albeit by very few people) within an entirely science-aligned rational and realistic philosophical frame that can be expressed by "concEPTs" such as (e.g.): (Our) AEVASIVE (neuropsychobiology); SHITS come CURSES, and their frequent conflux with "opportunity type" evolutionary pressures (as part of the "Evolutionary Pressure Totality"). All by me contrived concEPTs are mainly relevant to the phylogeny of fauna; and especially relevant to the phylogeny of folk. P _______________________________________________ Neur-sci mailing list Neur-sci@... http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/neur-sci |
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Re: entorhinal cortex
by Petra-3
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Hi!
I'm sorry that my english is not so good (I can speak very well but am not very much into scientific english, but I learn...). But as far as I understood, you think that supressed conflicts or traumata are responsable for the onset of Alzheimer? That's an interesting thought. There are some hypotheses about oxidative cell stress... The entorhinal cortex is the first place where plaques appear, then the plaques destroy the whole limbic system and at the end the isocortex is affected. This happens in every brain, systematically. We know that, but we don't know why the plaques appear. There are no biomarkers. LOve Petra Peter F wrote: > "Petra" <petra.proeglhoef@...> wrote in message > news:1140541502.167858.128800@...... > > Hi everybody! > > > > Has somebody read any articles about the relationship between damage > of > > the entorhinal cortex and Alzheimer's disease? I'm trying to work on > > that topic and find it very difficult to find/get informations. > > [Sorry for not saying anything other than that some > googling might satisfying your appetite for information.] > > I am seeing that there is an opportunity to > connect (at least conceptually) this region of the cerebral cortex > with the by Radium (recent poster in this NG) indirectly > pointed out possibility of a conditioning for a reflexive and habitual > maintenance of a highly selective unconsciousness of certain > traumatically painful > (including emotionally or psychologically so) stored (or imprinted) > experiences. > > And, that such a staving off, of "conditioned-in" [and chronically kept > as if "hibernated" - i.e. specifically, not generally, so - but > unconsciously > remembered (or "reverberating") stressors -, and effecting symptoms > *nevertheless*] potentially self-defeatingly distressful > endogenous signals thus chronically caused by *no longer environmentally > current* > "specific hibernation imploring type (~traumatizing) situations", > can in combination with other factors (e.g. a chronically elevated > secretion of cortisol) > strongly contribute to the onset of Alzheimer's disease amongst many > other somatic > and psychological symptoms of 'dis_ease'. > > All this can be insight-inspiringly inserted (albeit by very few people) > within an entirely science-aligned rational and realistic philosophical > frame that can be expressed by "concEPTs" such as (e.g.): > (Our) AEVASIVE (neuropsychobiology); SHITS come CURSES, > and their frequent conflux with "opportunity type" evolutionary > pressures > (as part of the "Evolutionary Pressure Totality"). > > All by me contrived concEPTs are mainly relevant to the phylogeny of > fauna; > and especially relevant to the phylogeny of folk. > > P _______________________________________________ Neur-sci mailing list Neur-sci@... http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/neur-sci |
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RE: Re: entorhinal cortex
by konstantin kouzovnikov
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Dear Peter and Petra:
How nice it is to realize that some ideas are indeed in the air! I've read your comments with intense interest. Only a postgrad, I would only comment on the following: - a number of people have looked at the trauma issue in dementia, AD-type. Some ruled it out completely. Some are still wondering. Those who have ruled it out , I think, used the so called PTSD symptom screening measures. I think the behavioral measures have only so much ability to discern. There is a need for a neurobiological marker, i.e. a combined neuropsych/neuroimaging pattern. I think the absence of this, on one hand, and - the barrier between two or more qualitatively different types of investigation (watching metabolic correlates, but not say, information processing type) is another problem preventing for finding an answer sooner. In short, there is a need for a COMPREHENSIVE, i.e. methodologically COMPLETE type of studies which is hard to come by. Aside from these, I am fully supporting Peter's view on pathogenesis of dementia, AD-type, i.e. in relation to the Trauma-factor. When it comes to the brain regions involved, I am afraid until we understand tghe information processing in general, there will be a huge methodological problem to identify what's happening under the influence of a super-trauma and the sequella born by it. However, unless there is an approach which investigates the PROCESS of the illness, starting with a comprehensive investigation of the onset symptoms, especially with NSS neurological soft signs, moving onto identification of the sequella of the brain regions involved, then interpreting the consequentially induced information processing deficits/disruptions, and then considering the appearance of the stable metabolic and biochemical changes, would be a way to go. So far it's just bits and pieces so, having only the background in clin psych and a bit of related experience, could I ask you, guys, to send me the info on both the described evidence of the traumatic experience as well as on oxidative cell stress? all the best, as well ,thanks for the Love, Petra Cheers, Konstantin >From: "Petra" <petra.proeglhoef@...> >To: neur-sci@... >Subject: [Neuroscience] Re: entorhinal cortex >Date: 24 Feb 2006 02:53:00 -0800 > >Hi! > >I'm sorry that my english is not so good (I can speak very well but am >not very much into scientific english, but I learn...). But as far as I >understood, you think that supressed conflicts or traumata are >responsable for the onset of Alzheimer? That's an interesting thought. >There are some hypotheses about oxidative cell stress... > >The entorhinal cortex is the first place where plaques appear, then the >plaques destroy the whole limbic system and at the end the isocortex is >affected. This happens in every brain, systematically. We know that, >but we don't know why the plaques appear. There are no biomarkers. > >LOve Petra > > >Peter F wrote: > > "Petra" <petra.proeglhoef@...> wrote in message > > news:1140541502.167858.128800@...... > > > Hi everybody! > > > > > > Has somebody read any articles about the relationship between damage > > of > > > the entorhinal cortex and Alzheimer's disease? I'm trying to work on > > > that topic and find it very difficult to find/get informations. > > > > [Sorry for not saying anything other than that some > > googling might satisfying your appetite for information.] > > > > I am seeing that there is an opportunity to > > connect (at least conceptually) this region of the cerebral cortex > > with the by Radium (recent poster in this NG) indirectly > > pointed out possibility of a conditioning for a reflexive and habitual > > maintenance of a highly selective unconsciousness of certain > > traumatically painful > > (including emotionally or psychologically so) stored (or imprinted) > > experiences. > > > > And, that such a staving off, of "conditioned-in" [and chronically kept > > as if "hibernated" - i.e. specifically, not generally, so - but > > unconsciously > > remembered (or "reverberating") stressors -, and effecting symptoms > > *nevertheless*] potentially self-defeatingly distressful > > endogenous signals thus chronically caused by *no longer environmentally > > current* > > "specific hibernation imploring type (~traumatizing) situations", > > can in combination with other factors (e.g. a chronically elevated > > secretion of cortisol) > > strongly contribute to the onset of Alzheimer's disease amongst many > > other somatic > > and psychological symptoms of 'dis_ease'. > > > > All this can be insight-inspiringly inserted (albeit by very few people) > > within an entirely science-aligned rational and realistic philosophical > > frame that can be expressed by "concEPTs" such as (e.g.): > > (Our) AEVASIVE (neuropsychobiology); SHITS come CURSES, > > and their frequent conflux with "opportunity type" evolutionary > > pressures > > (as part of the "Evolutionary Pressure Totality"). > > > > All by me contrived concEPTs are mainly relevant to the phylogeny of > > fauna; > > and especially relevant to the phylogeny of folk. > > > > P > >_______________________________________________ >Neur-sci mailing list >Neur-sci@... >http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/neur-sci _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://messenger.msn.co.uk _______________________________________________ Neur-sci mailing list Neur-sci@... http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/neur-sci |
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RE: Re: entorhinal cortex
by konstantin kouzovnikov
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>
> > right, i thought alzheimers was a amyloid protien build up, not a trauma > > induced alpha state so psychic detatchment occurs to prevent painful > > memories, or whatever, it's late and i may have misread something > > somewhere.. if so, sorry... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyloid a good Brit, now an Australian, Max Coltheart, who also a guy producing some of the most compelling research on delusion, asked a valid question: must the psychodynamic and the neuroscientific paradigms be neccessary opposing each other? To counterpart trauma and protein build -up is to assume that certain types of traumatic experiences do not lead to systemic and stable changes in CNS? including changes at the biochemical level? Do you recall the days when one had to argue that the mild to moderate concussions, as in soccer players, do lead to stable and irreversable cognitive decline (!) under certain conditions? if one is still wondering about it just take anything related to nurturing delusion (check out Mike Shanks and Annalena Venneri publications) in dementia; what you'll find out is the fact that the females who develop it, are the spauses of domineering husbands (of many years!)... something to think about... Of course, there is a third opinion, it's the personality of the one who choses such huibands..., i.e not the trauma adjusting to one... > >You'd be with the majority of scientific opinion in this view. Truth is >often the first casualty of UseNet. are you referring to the peer pressure effect? T. Khun's contexct could be an interesting take on "the majority thing" in science... I think a valid argument is a much more effective way to have a discorse. Cheers, Konstantin _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://messenger.msn.co.uk _______________________________________________ Neur-sci mailing list Neur-sci@... http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/neur-sci |
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Re: entorhinal cortex
by Peter F-3
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"Matthew Kirkcaldie" <m.kirkcaldie@...> wrote in message
news:m.kirkcaldie-61DAD8.22325727022006@...... > In article <lDULf.6033$Zw.35@...>, > "Psiclone" <nunya@...> wrote: > >> right, i thought alzheimers was a amyloid protien build up, not a trauma >> induced alpha state so psychic detatchment occurs to prevent painful >> memories, or whatever, it's late and i may have misread something >> somewhere.. if so, sorry... >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyloid > > You'd be with the majority of scientific opinion in this view. Truth is > often the first casualty of UseNet. > Dear Matthew, You sound like someone who is both conservative and committed to teaching. Scientific and social progress typically partly involves that 'crazy' or uncomfortable hypothesizers and idea-hatchers stick their necks out. If I am misinformed about something, or base my proposals, speculations, and interpretations of "What Is (actually) going on" on false facts, then I would not only accept *but be grateful* for any specific corrective advice. However, I am afraid that because of some sort of word-blindness-manifested type of brain-"weakness" (a problem that seem specific to when I write in English) you will have to get used to that I trip us (myself and others) up in many of my utterances on the Usenet. :-< (Weirdly enough, I seem not to be too bad at spotting mistakes in other people's written English.) Yours duly respectfully, Peter _______________________________________________ Neur-sci mailing list Neur-sci@... http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/neur-sci |
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Re: entorhinal cortex
by Petra-3
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I find it very interesting that different points of view are discussed
here. I'd say that the trauma hypothesis is rather relevant for vascular dementia, but it's just an idea. I would like to know more about the trauma-hypothesis... Love, Petra _______________________________________________ Neur-sci mailing list Neur-sci@... http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/neur-sci |
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Re: Re: entorhinal cortex
by konstantin kouzovnikov
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it is very kind of you, Peter... regardinh the "visiting" of the site: As soon as I found someone willing to accept an old dog to study brain stem/cerebellar involvement into emotion and psychosis, I will be back... Text me if you are around Yorkshire. The beer is good around here, almost as good as back home in Nova Scotia and the lockal gents in pubs still maintain the ancient right not to ask the experts a permission to talk about anything, an old, but still a very fresh life position. Konstantin >From: "Peter F" <19eimc_minus19@...> >To: neur-sci@... >Subject: Re: [Neuroscience] Re: entorhinal cortex >Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:19:23 +1100 > >You Konstantin have provide me with some of the rare breaths of fresh air >here in bionet.neuroscience. > >Thanks for visiting! > >Here is my 'concEPTually' compressed position of (a perversely septic >humored ;->) understanding (explained in brief): > >Given that one looks from far enough above, from different angles, zooms in >and out as required, and is both perceptive and realistic enough to not >demand a *too complete* understanding (or a too finely dotted or densely >scientifically plotted picture) of how lifetime environmental features and >influences affect and interact with the biochemistry of individuals [to >cause the differences between ill and a well (neuropsychophysiologically >and >'physically' so) human individuals/relationships/societies], then a >comprehensive enough 'explanatory picture' that both satisfies and can be a >guide for further scientific exploration [for further new details and >insights into this (and other) aspect of "What Is going on"] is already >possible to achieve. > >I know (but will here not try to explain how) that, for a balanced picture >of us people, the most lacking (or too faint and difuse) focus of >mainstream >scientific attention is the one that looks into how different kinds of >trauma [*slow* as well as tardy traumas - i.e. a spectrum of lifetime >situations the survival of which require ("implore") that a synaptic (hence >possibly highly specific) "hibernation" is induced within the nervous >system (or within what I only half-jokingly refer to as the "Actention >Selection System") of individuals who are "in" such situations] are stored >and how they thereafter insidiously influence the psychological and somatic >development, physiology and behavior of individuals. > >Janov calls such memories "primal pain". > >I have had fun by contriving, or playing with words to arrive at, the >acronym CURSES for the same type of memories. > >[Actually, I have made sure I can describe such memories and how they >become >as insidious as they are, by saying that: What puts a "'Conditioned-in' >Unconsciously Remembered Stressors, Effecting Symtoms" the "Actention >Selection System" of individuals are happenstances that causes them to end >up in a "Specific Hibernation Imploring Type Situations".] > >With best wishes and regards, > >Peter > > >_______________________________________________ >Neur-sci mailing list >Neur-sci@... >http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/neur-sci _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://messenger.msn.co.uk _______________________________________________ Neur-sci mailing list Neur-sci@... http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/neur-sci |
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Re: Re: entorhinal cortex
by Glen M. Sizemore
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Perhaps you should read a book by someone who has studied the effects of
aversive stimuli for half a century: Coercion and its Fallout. Murray Sidman. "Peter F" <19eimc_minus19@...> wrote in message news:440ef5fb$0$14520$5a62ac22@...... > You Konstantin have provide me with some of the rare breaths of fresh air > here in bionet.neuroscience. > > Thanks for visiting! > > Here is my 'concEPTually' compressed position of (a perversely septic > humored ;->) understanding (explained in brief): > > Given that one looks from far enough above, from different angles, zooms > in and out as required, and is both perceptive and realistic enough to not > demand a *too complete* understanding (or a too finely dotted or densely > scientifically plotted picture) of how lifetime environmental features and > influences affect and interact with the biochemistry of individuals [to > cause the differences between ill and a well (neuropsychophysiologically > and 'physically' so) human individuals/relationships/societies], then a > comprehensive enough 'explanatory picture' that both satisfies and can be > a guide for further scientific exploration [for further new details and > insights into this (and other) aspect of "What Is going on"] is already > possible to achieve. > > I know (but will here not try to explain how) that, for a balanced > picture of us people, the most lacking (or too faint and difuse) focus of > mainstream scientific attention is the one that looks into how different > kinds of trauma [*slow* as well as tardy traumas - i.e. a spectrum of > lifetime situations the survival of which require ("implore") that a > synaptic (hence possibly highly specific) "hibernation" is induced within > the nervous system (or within what I only half-jokingly refer to as the > "Actention Selection System") of individuals who are "in" such situations] > are stored and how they thereafter insidiously influence the psychological > and somatic development, physiology and behavior of individuals. > > Janov calls such memories "primal pain". > > I have had fun by contriving, or playing with words to arrive at, the > acronym CURSES for the same type of memories. > > [Actually, I have made sure I can describe such memories and how they > become as insidious as they are, by saying that: What puts a > "'Conditioned-in' Unconsciously Remembered Stressors, Effecting Symtoms" > the "Actention Selection System" of individuals are happenstances that > causes them to end up in a "Specific Hibernation Imploring Type > Situations".] > > With best wishes and regards, > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ Neur-sci mailing list Neur-sci@... http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/neur-sci |
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