Nabble - freebsd-chat

Re: Free secondary DNS?

2009-12-16T12:31:42Z

https://www.isc.org/solutions/sns

Free for some nonprofit or public benefit domains. I don't currently use
SNS, but I do use its DLV and f.root-servers.net.

<disclaimer>I work for ISC, but not directly part of the infrastructure
service.</disclaimer>
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Re: which port for this job?

2009-12-16T10:24:56Z

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:01:22 EST Chuck Robey <chuckr@...> wrote:

> Matthew Seaman wrote:
> > Chuck Robey wrote:
> >> I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a
> >> suggestion for what ports selection might be best.
> >
> > inkscape if you want something point'n'click to draw with.
> >
> > graphviz if you hate the idea of point'n'click.
>
> Well, actually, I'm after a UML designer, but it has some special needs for me:
> it has to understand python's arch (not just java, as most do). I've found a
> couple that go that far, but unbelieveably enough, they won't print...
> klassmodeler was a big disappointment like that. Dia actually printed it's
> output, but the authors were so proud of their ability to print huge mosaics
> made up of bunches of 8.5x11 sheets that they offer no options to get it all
> into one sheet, even when it s just not all that complicated.

Googling about this problem reveals
http://projects.gnome.org/dia/faq.html#FitToPage
Did you try it?

I have used tgif, xfig, inkscape, dia etc. in the past.
Generally they can all be made to do what you want but you
have to spend time learning the tool.
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Re: which port for this job?

2009-12-16T10:01:00Z

Matthew Seaman wrote:
> Chuck Robey wrote:
>> I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a
>> suggestion for what ports selection might be best.
>
> inkscape if you want something point'n'click to draw with.
>
> graphviz if you hate the idea of point'n'click.

Well, actually, I'm after a UML designer, but it has some special needs for me:
it has to understand python's arch (not just java, as most do). I've found a
couple that go that far, but unbelieveably enough, they won't print...
klassmodeler was a big disappointment like that. Dia actually printed it's
output, but the authors were so proud of their ability to print huge mosaics
made up of bunches of 8.5x11 sheets that they offer no options to get it all
into one sheet, even when it s just not all that complicated. Gaphor llikes to
coredump, and won't print at all. Argouml doesn't seem to know about python,
and it's descendant, poseidon, forces you to buy the "professional" model to get
python.

Chris Floess suggested Violet or umbrello. umbrello needs kdesdk4, which seems
to be in some kind of trouble (it's port is out of sync, version-wise, with
other kde4 ports. I can't find tjhe Violet port yet, but I'm looking.

If you have any other ideas (and NOT for simple graphics programs) then I'd
really appreciate a hint. I wasted a huge amount of time getting my kde4 up to
date, only to find that kdesdk4 (which has umbrello) wouldn't build.

>
> Cheers
>
> Matthew
>

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Re: Free secondary DNS?

2009-12-16T08:24:47Z

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 09:54:09AM -0600, Kevin Kinsey wrote:
> Hello,
>
> For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name
> server. There are a number of free services out there ... I was
> wondering if anyone had experience with any of these, or
> recommendations?
>
> I appreciate your sharing of knowledge.

Dunno about the services, per se.

But at home, I have a static /32, and I run my own name server (as well
as MTA, Web server, ...).

As long as it's not for malicious use, I offer to slave zones as well --
after setting up one slave, setting up another s pretty trivial, and the
bandwidth hasn't been a significant issue.

I prefer that requests for updates arrive via signed email.

Some of the folks whose zones I slave also slave mine, so that works out
for everyone. (I currently have 3 slaves, which is adequate for me.)

Peace,
david (current hat: hostmaster@...)
--
David H. Wolfskill david@...
Depriving a girl or boy of an opportunity for education is evil.

See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key.

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Re: Free secondary DNS?

2009-12-16T08:23:46Z

Kevin Kinsey wrote:
> Hello,
>
> For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name
> server. There are a number of free services out there ... I was
> wondering if anyone had experience with any of these, or
> recommendations?
>
Its based on recommendations from others rather than personal experience
but have a look at.
https://puck.nether.net/dns/login
other such as
everydns.net
twisted4life.com
afraid.org
I know nothing about.

Vince

> I appreciate your sharing of knowledge.
>
> Kevin Kinsey
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Re: Free secondary DNS?

2009-12-16T08:17:17Z

2009/12/16 Kevin Kinsey <kdk@...>

> Hello,
>
> For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name
> server. There are a number of free services out there ... I was
> wondering if anyone had experience with any of these, or
> recommendations?
>
> I appreciate your sharing of knowledge.

OpenDNS (208.67.220.220 / 208.67.222.222) has been working fine for me.
I don't like the redirection for unresolved names. On the sysadmin side, I
like
the web control panel to block or allow internal users (and children) access
to
IPs and/or names.

Have not tried the Google DNS (8.8.8.8 / 8.8.4.4) yet.

Best,
Alex
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Re: Free secondary DNS?

2009-12-16T08:12:15Z

Kevin Kinsey writes:

> For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name
> server. There are a number of free services out there ... I was

Zoneedit.com
I think you can get the first 5 domains for free.
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Re: which port for this job?

2009-12-16T08:00:38Z

Chuck Robey <chuckr@...> writes:
> The last one I found, dia, was far simpler (enough so that I could use
> it) but it produced gigantic pdf exports, which needed like a mosaid
> of 5x5 printed sheets to view it, and no easy way tio shrink it.

AFAIK, dia prints just what you tell it to. The default settings even
show page limits on the canvas. Just zoom in before you start drawing,
and stay within the dark blue lines.

DES
--
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@...
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Re: which port for this job?

2009-12-16T07:54:33Z

Chuck Robey wrote:
> The last one I found, dia, was far simpler (enough so that I could use
> it) but it produced gigantic pdf exports, which needed like a mosaid
> of 5x5 printed sheets to view it, and no easy way tio shrink it.

Shrinking PDF files can be done with these commands:

$ pdf2ps huge.pdf huge.ps
$ psresize -W... -H... -w... -h... huge.ps sane.ps
$ ps2pdf sane.ps sane.pdf

psresize is part of the "psutils" port, and pdf2ps and ps2pdf
come from ghostscript. Please see the psresize(1) manual page
for details about the options.

Of course, all text is shrunk along with the document, so it
might become too small (i.e. unreadable).

Best regards
Oliver

--
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Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung:
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and complex tasks impossible."
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Free secondary DNS?

2009-12-16T07:54:09Z

Hello,

For various reasons I find myself in need of a secondary name
server. There are a number of free services out there ... I was
wondering if anyone had experience with any of these, or
recommendations?

I appreciate your sharing of knowledge.

Kevin Kinsey
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Re: which port for this job?

2009-12-16T02:44:42Z

On 15 Dec 2009, at 20:48, Chuck Robey wrote:

> I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a
> suggestion for what ports selection might be best.
>
> So far, everything I've tried has either been so extremely full of jargon that
> one can't use it without a semester course in it (or 6 months rereading the UML
> spec). The last one I found, dia, was far simpler (enough so that I could use
> it) but it produced gigantic pdf exports, which needed like a mosaid of 5x5
> printed sheets to view it, and no easy way tio shrink it.

Use dia, export to png and resize the diagram with gimp or something similar.

--
Rui Paulo

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Re: which port for this job?

2009-12-15T13:17:15Z

Chuck Robey wrote:
> I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a
> suggestion for what ports selection might be best.

inkscape if you want something point'n'click to draw with.

graphviz if you hate the idea of point'n'click.

Cheers

Matthew

--
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Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
Kent, CT11 9PW

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which port for this job?

2009-12-15T12:48:22Z

I need to block out a mildly complex OO diagram, and I wanted to get a
suggestion for what ports selection might be best.

So far, everything I've tried has either been so extremely full of jargon that
one can't use it without a semester course in it (or 6 months rereading the UML
spec). The last one I found, dia, was far simpler (enough so that I could use
it) but it produced gigantic pdf exports, which needed like a mosaid of 5x5
printed sheets to view it, and no easy way tio shrink it.

So, what might be both simpler, and have easier exporting?

Thanks
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help with gem

2009-12-14T16:23:23Z

If anyone can help with gem errors, such as those found here, please
contact me via IRC: dvl on FreeNode, OFTC, EFNET, or Undernet.

Thanks

http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.network.conferencing.pentabarf.user/283
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RE: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-14T09:22:45Z

oh yes I have, the ones that "burn out" after a couple years, and then you're not told if somethin' is wrong? -resulting in more money spent for repairs.

I've seen it happen on about 10% of the cars/trucks....

Thats why they still call them an "idiot light"

Rick.

> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:16:01 -0500
> From: aryeh.friedman@...
> To: solarux@...
> CC: freebsd-chat@...
> Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years
>
> > 6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be
> > replaced by a single 'This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation' warning
> > light.
>
> In case you haven't looked recently they have been repladed by the
> "check engine" light.
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-14T09:16:01Z

> 6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be
> replaced by a single 'This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation' warning
> light.

In case you haven't looked recently they have been repladed by the
"check engine" light.
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RE: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-14T07:47:11Z

Bill Gates, and General Motors:

For all of us who feel only the deepest love and affection for the way computers have enhanced our lives, read on.
At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly "compared" the computer industry with the auto industry and stated,

'If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon.'
In response to Bill ' s comments, General Motors issued a press release stating:

If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics (and I just love this part):
1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash.........Twice a day.
2.. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3... Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.
6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single 'This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation' warning light.
I love the next one!!!
7. The airbag system would ask 'Are you sure?' before deploying.
8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
10. You'd have to press the 'Start' button to turn the engine off.
PS - I'd like to add that when all else fails, you could call 'customer service' in some foreign country and be instructed in some foreign language how to fix your car yourself!!!!

Please share this with your friends who love - but sometimes hate - their Windows computer!

cheers,

:)

-----------------------------------------------------

> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 06:42:55 -0500
> From: aryeh.friedman@...
> To: freebsd-chat@...
> Subject: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years
>
> Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The actually
> know how to make good stuff but don't for the following reasons (only
> the first on is a new observation likely):
>
> * If they didn't have any bugs then people would think the program
> was counterfeit
> * Force people to upgrade hardware and software more often
> * Forcing a person to be certified expert to just know how to save
> documents
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RE: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-14T07:38:45Z

Its not any more of a conspiracy than the "car" industry.

Nuthin' really new here :)

They're are many parallels with both now today, and not just because of the digital computer revolution....

I started in the automotive industry many moons ago, and since the early 90's I've watched Microsoft copy their "planned obsolecence" ideals, very similarly to the auto-industry, (specifically manufacturing).

In the old car days its used to be "...yup, they sure don't make them like they used to....". You know that's true, 'cause to buy a "new" car, up until lately somewhat, you needed a small mortgage and you'll be throwing that car away in 5 years anyway just like a "Bic" butane lighter.

I agree, but if Microsoft made it a priority to built hardware/software to work really well and last longer than my coffee, then they wouldn't even be 1/1,000th as rich as they are today.

The new cars/PC's are both pure "junk" in less than 5 years.

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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-14T01:16:53Z

Hi,

On 12 December 2009 pm 19:42:55 Aryeh M. Friedman wrote:
> Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The

no, it is what happens to all large organisations. The basic
idea - at least for NT - was not this bad.

Guys who worked on RSX or VMS cannot be that bad.

But then they started to put things in because some people started
asking for it.

Erich
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-13T22:08:06Z

Jayton Garnett wrote:
> I used to be naive too, thinking Unix was better in all respects. Then got a
> job working in a predominately Windows environment, and most of the
> problems I encounter are third party software issues - hardly the fault of
> Microsoft eh? Yes Unix is far more interesting as you can start with a CLI
> and build on that to make what you want, however that is also it's downfall.
> The average PC user just about knows how to turn it on, write a document,
> browse the web and print.

Well, I'm not up on the latest versions of Windows, because I also am a
unix-only person. I HAVE made money on Windows software development, because
the money was laying there in front of me, but I have no Windows at home. You
have made a comment about the 3rd party software being to blame, and while I
usually won't contribute to an anti-MS discussion (too easy a target), I will do
that here. A major reason that 3rd party software on Windows has a reputation
of causing crashes is not because the software is bad, it's because the design
of the OS behind it both leaves huge holes for problems, AND hides most of the
problems. An instance of poor OS design is the fact that access to the disk is
very difficult to do in Unix (you need root permissions to get around using the
provided filesystem drivers). MS for years (I am not sure any more, but I knmow
for years) has allowed programs, including hordes of cheap shareware items, to
write directly tot he disk, which provides landmines on that disk for other
programs to step on.

A second point is, in Unix, something like a write to memory outside your
program's allotment gets you an error and, likely, a core dump. This is
immediate and huge incentive for software vendors to find and fix their fatal
errors. In Windows, having those fatal errors show themselves has always been
advertised as a weakness! So, lots of programs break the OS environment, but
the error often won't show in that prog, it shows an hour later when simething
else hits a tripwire. So, in Unix, making the errors obvious forces folks who
write software to fix the majority of problems. In Windows, you get a very
uncertain environment where errors aren't fixed, but remain around and about,
waiting to hit some other prog. Isn't it lovely how marketing can portray that
as a 'good thing'?

Having less opportunity for errors, and having an environment where many errors
make themselves immediately (and loudly) known, has always been a lot higher on
the Unix list of priorities than Windows.

Does anyone who programs currently in Windows (Windows7?) know if they've fixed
the FS access, or added stuff like all of our fatal errors (see man 2 intro)?

>
> Explaining to a computer user non-technical how/why/when to install software
> using the ports and make or even pkg_add -r and for them to grasp this
> concept is where Windows (OS/X also) is by far the 'better' OS for these
> people, which is more than 90% of the population.
>
> Cheers,
> Jay ;)
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HEADS UP! PIP PIP Y'ALL

2009-12-13T15:56:37Z

Self fulfilling prophecy! That's no way to keep the chins up, mah good
man!!!!!

kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $ man gcc
kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $ gcc --version
gcc (Gentoo 4.3.4 p1.0, pie-10.1.5) 4.3.4
Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
PURPOSE.

kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $

*----------------------------------------------------------*
Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics)
(415) 902 5513 cellular
http://kayve.net
Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org
*----------------------------------------------------------*
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-13T15:42:07Z

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, Jayton Garnett wrote:

>>
>>
>>> THAT's no way to sell computers! Come on man, how's that *Nix Store going
>> to survive with a sale line like that???
>>
>
> Fortunately I'm no salesman so I need not worry about that, I leave that to
> my boss :p
>
> I can't even *sell* FreeBSD to my wife as our main OS, let alone strangers
> :(

oh jee.. ja gots ta be a member

http://main.uschess.org/forums/viewtopic.php&f=24&t=12067

HEARTS BEAT STRONG IN THE FRINGE MARKET!

>
> Cheers,
> Jay
>

*----------------------------------------------------------*
Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics)
(415) 902 5513 cellular
http://kayve.net
Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org
*----------------------------------------------------------*
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-13T15:40:34Z

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, Jayton Garnett wrote:

>>> THAT's no way to sell computers! Come on man, how's that *Nix Store going
>> to survive with a sale line like that???
>>
>
> Fortunately I'm no salesman so I need not worry about that, I leave that to
> my boss :p
>
> I can't even *sell* FreeBSD to my wife as our main OS, let alone strangers
> :(
>

Like chess.. it's a bit of a fringe market.. but I got this guy, I try to
call him my buddy, but he has Asperger's Syndrome so he gets hung up on
stuff. He keeps saying "You're not a UNIX guy."

That's what you might call a self-fulfilling prophecy, if it weren't for
the fact that I learned the vi editor in 1985, never had much hardware
over the years. Crashed class at Berzerkeley in molecular biology
(MCB--the hardcores not IB).. got a MS, they keep wanting me to do this
stuff.. they tell me I'm good with command lines, but I have only been
trying to build systems for a couple of years now. I have never touched c#
did a foray because I thought "Windows Programming" sounded intriguing..
at this point.. mind you I have no clue about holy wars, well.. I guess I
can be RTFM deficient.. so I dropped out of my PhD (that was how I got the
MS).. but anyway.. they made me retake data structures in c++ so I did and
I did MFC that was fun.. did other things.. I am building a hate for
java.. I met this Asperger guy.. and gradually I am trying to "descend"
(is that REALLY the right word??? I know it's called "low level," but..
come on.. is this really hell? it is if you believe it!!) into the kernel
today I am trying to figure out how to get atomic_dec_and_test working.. I
just scored with

gcc -lrt -o calc_pi calc_pi.c
calc_pi.c: In function 'main':
calc_pi.c:21: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments
kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $ ^C calc_pi
calc_pi.c
kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $ ./calc_pi
second resolution: 1260745242nanosecond resolution:
954428309kayve@kayve-gentoo ~/murphy/CSc720/project/c_barrier $ gcc -lrt
-o calc_pi calc_pi.c

(never mind forgotten '\n's) but I'm sorry you guys. I thought I had an
inkling what "hacker" meant but instead of bearing with me.. well..
whatever.. d00d.. I made a proclamation "PC-BSD is dead to me"

http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/bsdend/index.vhtml

black screen man! wtf?? oh mwwaan!!! now I dun blowed up mah ubuntu:

http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/ubuntu_fix/index.vhtml

but gentoo gives me purdy flowers:

http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/gentoo/index.vhtml

tst
bin etc lib nexbak sbin tmp vmlinuz.old
boot home lost+found opt selinux usr
cdrom initrd.img media proc srv var
dev initrd.img.old mnt root sys vmlinuz
kayve-gentoo ~ # ls /mnt/tst/home
kayve scott
kayve-gentoo ~ # umount /mnt/tst
kayve-gentoo ~ # mount /dev/sdb2 /mnt/tst
mount: you must specify the filesystem type
kayve-gentoo ~ # mount /dev/sdb5 /mnt/tst
/dev/sdb5 looks like swapspace - not mounted
mount: you must specify the filesystem type
kayve-gentoo ~ # swapon /dev/sdb5
kayve-gentoo ~ # ls /dev/sdb*
/dev/sdb /dev/sdb1 /dev/sdb2 /dev/sdb5
kayve-gentoo ~ # mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/ubuntu
kayve-gentoo ~ # pwd
/root
kayve-gentoo ~ # cd emerges
kayve-gentoo emerges # ls
aisleriot_makesplat.log ntfs3g_makesplat.log
astrolog_makesplat.log ntfs_makesplat.log
dataplot_makesplat.log oo-ximian_makesplat.log
depclean_makesplat.log ooffice-bin-appen_makesplat.log
eclipse2_makesplat.log ooffice-bin_makesplat.log
eclipse_makesplat.log ooffice2_makesplat.log
epix_makesplat.log ooffice_makesplat.log
extrema_makesplat.log pgplot_makesplat.log
fuse_failed.log plplot_makesplat.log
fuse_makesplat.log python_makesplat.log
gempak_makesplat.log pyxplot_makesplat.log
gftp_makesplat.log qtiplot_makesplat.log
ggames_makesplat.log quickplot_makesplat.log
gnupg_makesplat.log scidavis_makesplat.log
gnuplot_makesplat.log scipy_makesplat.log
grace_makesplat.log telnet_makesplat.log
graphviz_makesplat.log texlive_makesplat.log
labplot_makesplat.log update_revdep.log
latex_makesplat.log veusz_makesplat.log
loqui_makesplat.log xchat_makesplat.log
matplotlib_makesplat.log xd3d_makesplat.log
ntfs2_makesplat.log xgraph_makesplat.log
kayve-gentoo emerges # tail xgraph_makesplat.log

* GNU info directory index is up-to-date.

* IMPORTANT: 14 config files in '/etc' need updating.
* See the CONFIGURATION FILES section of the emerge
* man page to learn how to update config files.
kayve-gentoo emerges # exit
exit

Script done on Wed Dec 9 23:28:20 2009
kayve-gentoo emerges #

I is a bad toad. BUT AN EPIC TROLL!!! YAAAY!

> Cheers,
> Jay
>

*----------------------------------------------------------*
Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics)
(415) 902 5513 cellular
http://kayve.net
Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org
*----------------------------------------------------------*
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-13T14:43:16Z

>
>
>> THAT's no way to sell computers! Come on man, how's that *Nix Store going
> to survive with a sale line like that???
>

Fortunately I'm no salesman so I need not worry about that, I leave that to
my boss :p

I can't even *sell* FreeBSD to my wife as our main OS, let alone strangers
:(

Cheers,
Jay
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-13T12:57:07Z

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, Jayton Garnett wrote:

> I used to be naive too, thinking Unix was better in all respects. Then got a
> job working in a predominately Windows environment, and most of the
> problems I encounter are third party software issues - hardly the fault of
> Microsoft eh? Yes Unix is far more interesting as you can start with a CLI
> and build on that to make what you want, however that is also it's downfall.
> The average PC user just about knows how to turn it on, write a document,
> browse the web and print.
>
> Explaining to a computer user non-technical how/why/when to install software
> using the ports and make or even pkg_add -r and for them to grasp this
> concept is where Windows (OS/X also) is by far the 'better' OS for these
> people, which is more than 90% of the population.
>

THAT's no way to sell computers! Come on man, how's that *Nix Store going
to survive with a sale line like that???

> Cheers,
> Jay ;)
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@..."
>

*----------------------------------------------------------*
Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics)
(415) 902 5513 cellular
http://kayve.net
Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org
*----------------------------------------------------------*
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-13T12:44:38Z

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote:

> "Aryeh M. Friedman" <aryeh.friedman@...> writes:
>> Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy.
>
> The fall of the Soviet Union proves you wrong.

Yay! Somebody start a *nix store and sell puters WITHOUT Uncle Bill!

>
> DES
> --
> Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@...
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> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@..."
>

*----------------------------------------------------------*
Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics)
(415) 902 5513 cellular
http://kayve.net
Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org
*----------------------------------------------------------*
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-13T12:40:12Z

I used to be naive too, thinking Unix was better in all respects. Then got a
job working in a predominately Windows environment, and most of the
problems I encounter are third party software issues - hardly the fault of
Microsoft eh? Yes Unix is far more interesting as you can start with a CLI
and build on that to make what you want, however that is also it's downfall.
The average PC user just about knows how to turn it on, write a document,
browse the web and print.

Explaining to a computer user non-technical how/why/when to install software
using the ports and make or even pkg_add -r and for them to grasp this
concept is where Windows (OS/X also) is by far the 'better' OS for these
people, which is more than 90% of the population.

Cheers,
Jay ;)
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-13T06:16:56Z

I don't use Windows, but that's because I find Unix so much more interesting.
I concluded long ago that people who moan about Microsoft are in fact Secret
Windows Users.

Faictz Ce Que Vouldras: Frank Mitchell

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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-13T03:51:32Z

Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote:
> "Aryeh M. Friedman" <aryeh.friedman@...> writes:
>
>> Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy.
>>
>
> The fall of the Soviet Union proves you wrong.
>

That it does ;-)
> DES
>

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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-13T03:49:22Z

"Aryeh M. Friedman" <aryeh.friedman@...> writes:
> Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy.

The fall of the Soviet Union proves you wrong.

DES
--
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@...
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-12T21:11:26Z

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:34:56 -0500, Allen <SlackWareWolf@...> wrote:
> Most people who helped invent Unix / Linux / BSD / TCP/IP, smoked
> something. Berkeley is only known for two products ;)

Only one of which has really come out of Berkeley. Guesses at which one
of the two it was are still a cause of lots of fun at BSD conferences.
Preferably over a table with a variety of beverages.

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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-12T17:53:34Z

On Saturday 12 December 2009 02:57:27 pm Aryeh Friedman wrote:
> > Most people who helped invent Unix / Linux / BSD / TCP/IP, smoked
> > something. Berkeley is only known for two products ;)
>
> Having been born in San Francisco and growing up in Berkeley I must agree.

Thanks :) It's not like there is something wrong with it. Bitching about drugs
on the internet is like emailing hate group crap; Every email eventually hits
a sendmail server, which was written by a gay man, and the Internet was
written by guys who do things they don't agree with. I can't think of even
one hacker who doesn't do something. Doesn't matter if it's pot or Caffeine,
they're all drugs.

--
http://www.myspace.com/farmacyofhorror
Digital Horror Punk - Music I make! All done with LMMS
All done with Linux and FreeBSD
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-12T15:12:09Z

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 5:30 AM, A.J. "Fonz" van Werven
<a.j.werven@...> wrote:

> Randi Harper wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:42 AM, Aryeh M. Friedman
>> <aryeh.friedman@...> wrote:
>> > Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy.
>
> [snip very old joke]
>
>> Unproductive. Seriously? You want to talk about how Microsoft sucks?
>> Nothing you've said is original or even entertaining.
>>
>> 1.) What the hell? Are you smoking something?
> [snip]
>> Did you just discover UNIX or something? Power to you for your
>> enthusiasm, but bashing other operating systems with uninformed
>> opinions just makes you look dumb.
> [snip]
>> freebsd-chat@... mailing list
>
> Why do you subscribe to -chat if some innocent (but indeed neither
> original nor entertaining, I'll give you that) chatter makes you cut
> people's heads off? Just a thought...
>
> Alphons
>

Because after a long day after vacation of responding to sysinstall/DD
related emails, it felt good to vent on a troll? :)

-- randi
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-12T14:52:28Z

Martin Tournoij wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 06:42:55AM -0500, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote:
>
>> Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The actually
>> know how to make good stuff but don't for the following reasons (only
>> the first on is a new observation likely):
>>
>> * If they didn't have any bugs then people would think the program
>> was counterfeit
>> * Force people to upgrade hardware and software more often
>> * Forcing a person to be certified expert to just know how to save
>> documents
>>
>
> You are so right.
> The important matter here however is whether is is the CIA or Illuminati.
>
>

I've alway wondered why people think it has to be a conspiracy OR a
cock-up (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor#Cock-up_theory)
when its so much more likely to be both.
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Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years

2009-12-12T14:06:17Z

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 06:42:55AM -0500, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote:
> Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The actually
> know how to make good stuff but don't for the following reasons (only
> the first on is a new observation likely):
>
> * If they didn't have any bugs then people would think the program
> was counterfeit
> * Force people to upgrade hardware and software more often
> * Forcing a person to be certified expert to just know how to save
> documents

You are so right.
The important matter here however is whether is is the CIA or Illuminati.

--
Martin Tournoij
carpetsmoker@... | (+031) 621 991 576
http://www.carpetsmoker.net | http://www.daemonforums.org

QOTD:
"Hello," he lied.
-- Don Carpenter, quoting a Hollywood agent
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