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granatier

by Mathias Kraus-2 :: Rate this Message:

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hi,

maybe you remember me. I am the guy who wants to make a bomberman like game for kde.
well, I did some coding the last months and I think it's now in a playable state. there are still some rough edges and missing features from clanbomber, but if I can keep the pace till october, maybe it can go into 4.4.
if you want to try it, you need to build gluon first, because I use it for the sound. had some problems with phonon, but if you want I could temporally remove the dependeny to gluon to make it easier for you to test it.
btw, it's called granatier and is in playground.

regards,
mathias
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Re: granatier

by Albert Astals Cid-2 :: Rate this Message:

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A Dimarts, 1 de setembre de 2009, Mathias Kraus va escriure:

> hi,
>
> maybe you remember me. I am the guy who wants to make a bomberman like game
>  for kde. well, I did some coding the last months and I think it's now in a
>  playable state. there are still some rough edges and missing features from
>  clanbomber, but if I can keep the pace till october, maybe it can go into
>  4.4. if you want to try it, you need to build gluon first, because I use
>  it for the sound. had some problems with phonon, but if you want I could
>  temporally remove the dependeny to gluon to make it easier for you to test
>  it. btw, it's called granatier and is in playground.

Where does one get gluon from?

Albert

>
> regards,
> mathias
> _______________________________________________
> kde-games-devel mailing list
> kde-games-devel@...
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel
>

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Re: granatier

by Mathias Kraus-2 :: Rate this Message:

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Albert Astals Cid schrieb am Dienstag 01 September 2009:

> A Dimarts, 1 de setembre de 2009, Mathias Kraus va escriure:
> > hi,
> >
> > maybe you remember me. I am the guy who wants to make a bomberman like game
> >  for kde. well, I did some coding the last months and I think it's now in a
> >  playable state. there are still some rough edges and missing features from
> >  clanbomber, but if I can keep the pace till october, maybe it can go into
> >  4.4. if you want to try it, you need to build gluon first, because I use
> >  it for the sound. had some problems with phonon, but if you want I could
> >  temporally remove the dependeny to gluon to make it easier for you to test
> >  it. btw, it's called granatier and is in playground.
>
> Where does one get gluon from?

you can get it from here
http://gitorious.org/gluon

regards,
mathias

> Albert
>
> >
> > regards,
> > mathias
> > _______________________________________________
> > kde-games-devel mailing list
> > kde-games-devel@...
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> kde-games-devel mailing list
> kde-games-devel@...
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel
>
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Re: granatier

by Albert Astals Cid-2 :: Rate this Message:

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A Dimarts, 1 de setembre de 2009, Mathias Kraus va escriure:

> Albert Astals Cid schrieb am Dienstag 01 September 2009:
> > A Dimarts, 1 de setembre de 2009, Mathias Kraus va escriure:
> > > hi,
> > >
> > > maybe you remember me. I am the guy who wants to make a bomberman like
> > > game for kde. well, I did some coding the last months and I think it's
> > > now in a playable state. there are still some rough edges and missing
> > > features from clanbomber, but if I can keep the pace till october,
> > > maybe it can go into 4.4. if you want to try it, you need to build
> > > gluon first, because I use it for the sound. had some problems with
> > > phonon, but if you want I could temporally remove the dependeny to
> > > gluon to make it easier for you to test it. btw, it's called granatier
> > > and is in playground.
> >
> > Where does one get gluon from?
>
> you can get it from here
> http://gitorious.org/gluon

Can build granatier, seems gluon is not correctly installing itself, after
doing make install i get
/home/kdesvn/instalado/include/KDE/KALBuffer
with the contents
#include "../kalengine/kalbuffer.h"
but that file does not exist

Albert

>
> regards,
> mathias
>
> > Albert
> >
> > > regards,
> > > mathias
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kde-games-devel mailing list
> > > kde-games-devel@...
> > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kde-games-devel mailing list
> > kde-games-devel@...
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel
>
> _______________________________________________
> kde-games-devel mailing list
> kde-games-devel@...
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-devel
>

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Re: granatier

by Albert Astals Cid-2 :: Rate this Message:

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A Dimarts, 1 de setembre de 2009, Albert Astals Cid va escriure:

> A Dimarts, 1 de setembre de 2009, Mathias Kraus va escriure:
> > Albert Astals Cid schrieb am Dienstag 01 September 2009:
> > > A Dimarts, 1 de setembre de 2009, Mathias Kraus va escriure:
> > > > hi,
> > > >
> > > > maybe you remember me. I am the guy who wants to make a bomberman
> > > > like game for kde. well, I did some coding the last months and I
> > > > think it's now in a playable state. there are still some rough edges
> > > > and missing features from clanbomber, but if I can keep the pace till
> > > > october, maybe it can go into 4.4. if you want to try it, you need to
> > > > build gluon first, because I use it for the sound. had some problems
> > > > with phonon, but if you want I could temporally remove the dependeny
> > > > to gluon to make it easier for you to test it. btw, it's called
> > > > granatier and is in playground.
> > >
> > > Where does one get gluon from?
> >
> > you can get it from here
> > http://gitorious.org/gluon
>
> Can build granatier, seems gluon is not correctly installing itself, after

s/can/can not

Albert
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Re: granatier

by Felix Lemke :: Rate this Message:

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> Can build granatier, seems gluon is not correctly installing itself, after
> doing make install i get
> /home/kdesvn/instalado/include/KDE/KALBuffer
> with the contents
> #include "../kalengine/kalbuffer.h"
> but that file does not exist

The same for me.

Regards
Felix


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Re: granatier

by Bugzilla from Parker.Coates@gmail.com :: Rate this Message:

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On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 15:50, Mathias Kraus wrote:
> hi,
>
> maybe you remember me. I am the guy who wants to make a bomberman like game for kde.
> well, I did some coding the last months and I think it's now in a playable state. there are still some rough edges and missing features from clanbomber, but if I can keep the pace till october, maybe it can go into 4.4.
> if you want to try it, you need to build gluon first, because I use it for the sound. had some problems with phonon, but if you want I could temporally remove the dependeny to gluon to make it easier for you to test it.

As far as I know, there's never been a stable release of Gluon, which
means code relying on it can't be shipped as part of KDE. Until Gluon
makes a stable release and either gets packaged by distributions or
moves into KDE somewhere, you are pretty much stuck. :(

It's a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg problem. The Gluon guys want game
developers to use Gluon to work out the kinks in their API. The game
developers can't really use Gluon until they finish their API and make
a release.

Parker
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Re: granatier

by Arturo Silva :: Rate this Message:

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Hello Mathias.
 
I do agree that depending on this library may be problematic, and if the missing functionality can be coded independently of it I think it will be worth the wait. 
 
However, I wouldn't mind at all bulding and trying out your game, as I used to be quite a big fan of bomberman back in the day.  :)
 
I am without-a-doubt new here, so if you can supply some brief instructions on how I can download and build it (including this gluon even) I can most definitely give it a spin this evening and provide feedback accordingly.  [My first assumption is that the process is kicked off with svn co -N svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/games/ .]
 
Thanks in advance!  :)
 
 
--Arturo "C-quel" Silva

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Parker Coates <parker.coates@...> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 15:50, Mathias Kraus wrote:
> hi,
>
> maybe you remember me. I am the guy who wants to make a bomberman like game for kde.
> well, I did some coding the last months and I think it's now in a playable state. there are still some rough edges and missing features from clanbomber, but if I can keep the pace till october, maybe it can go into 4.4.
> if you want to try it, you need to build gluon first, because I use it for the sound. had some problems with phonon, but if you want I could temporally remove the dependeny to gluon to make it easier for you to test it.

As far as I know, there's never been a stable release of Gluon, which
means code relying on it can't be shipped as part of KDE. Until Gluon
makes a stable release and either gets packaged by distributions or
moves into KDE somewhere, you are pretty much stuck. :(

It's a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg problem. The Gluon guys want game
developers to use Gluon to work out the kinks in their API. The game
developers can't really use Gluon until they finish their API and make
a release.

Parker
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Re: granatier

by Bugzilla from Parker.Coates@gmail.com :: Rate this Message:

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On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:09, Arturo Silva wrote:
> I am without-a-doubt new here...

Welcome.

As you're new here, I'll take a minute to point out that top-posting
on mailing lists is generally considered bad etiquette. See
http://www.idallen.com/topposting.html for an explanation of why.

Parker
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Re: granatier

by Arturo Silva :: Rate this Message:

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On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Parker Coates <parker.coates@...> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:09, Arturo Silva wrote:
> I am without-a-doubt new here...

Welcome.

As you're new here, I'll take a minute to point out that top-posting
on mailing lists is generally considered bad etiquette. See
http://www.idallen.com/topposting.html for an explanation of why.

Parker
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Ah, I see.  Sorry, I'm not used to mailing lists.  Only forums where messages are automatically bottom-posted.  :(

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Re: granatier

by Bugzilla from Parker.Coates@gmail.com :: Rate this Message:

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On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:03, Arturo Silva wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Parker Coates wrote:
>> As you're new here, I'll take a minute to point out that top-posting
>> on mailing lists is generally considered bad etiquette. See
>> http://www.idallen.com/topposting.html for an explanation of why.
>
> Ah, I see.  Sorry, I'm not used to mailing lists.  Only forums where
> messages are automatically bottom-posted.  :(

No worries. You can't know until someone tells you. :)

While we're on the topic, it's also customary to trim the quoted
message down to just the relevant bits, removing things like
signatures. See above.

The other big infraction that I should have mentioned earlier, is
HTML. Some people get downright irate when people send HTML mails to
the mailing list. Please stick with plain text.

Parker
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Re: granatier

by Arturo Silva :: Rate this Message:

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> The other big infraction that I should have mentioned earlier, is
> HTML. Some people get downright irate when people send HTML mails to
> the mailing list. Please stick with plain text.

Haha!  The last one is Gmail's fault, I swear.  :P
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Re: granatier

by Mathias Kraus-2 :: Rate this Message:

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Albert Astals Cid schrieb am Dienstag 01 September 2009:

> A Dimarts, 1 de setembre de 2009, Albert Astals Cid va escriure:
> > A Dimarts, 1 de setembre de 2009, Mathias Kraus va escriure:
> > > Albert Astals Cid schrieb am Dienstag 01 September 2009:
> > > > A Dimarts, 1 de setembre de 2009, Mathias Kraus va escriure:
> > > > > hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > maybe you remember me. I am the guy who wants to make a bomberman
> > > > > like game for kde. well, I did some coding the last months and I
> > > > > think it's now in a playable state. there are still some rough edges
> > > > > and missing features from clanbomber, but if I can keep the pace till
> > > > > october, maybe it can go into 4.4. if you want to try it, you need to
> > > > > build gluon first, because I use it for the sound. had some problems
> > > > > with phonon, but if you want I could temporally remove the dependeny
> > > > > to gluon to make it easier for you to test it. btw, it's called
> > > > > granatier and is in playground.
> > > >
> > > > Where does one get gluon from?
> > >
> > > you can get it from here
> > > http://gitorious.org/gluon
> >
> > Can build granatier, seems gluon is not correctly installing itself, after
>
> s/can/can not
the problem is, that e.g. <KALSource> is pointing to "../kal/kalsource.h" but "kalsource.h" is in "../gluon/kalengine/kalsource.h".
I submited a patch yesterday and hope it will soon be fixed. I should have done it a few weeks before, because I knew it since then, so my fault.
you can also use the patch attached.

regards,
mathias

>
> Albert
> _______________________________________________
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>

[kal_headers.patch]

diff --git a/kal/includes/KALBuffer b/kal/includes/KALBuffer
index 058f72f..b893590 100644
--- a/kal/includes/KALBuffer
+++ b/kal/includes/KALBuffer
@@ -1 +1 @@
-#include "../kalengine/kalbuffer.h"
+#include "../gluon/kal/kalbuffer.h"
diff --git a/kal/includes/KALEngine b/kal/includes/KALEngine
index d483cf3..1daaa7f 100644
--- a/kal/includes/KALEngine
+++ b/kal/includes/KALEngine
@@ -1 +1 @@
-#include "../kalengine/kalengine.h"
+#include "../gluon/kal/kalengine.h"
diff --git a/kal/includes/KALOggStreamer b/kal/includes/KALOggStreamer
index e623c0b..3609813 100644
--- a/kal/includes/KALOggStreamer
+++ b/kal/includes/KALOggStreamer
@@ -1 +1 @@
-#include "../kalengine/kaloggstreamer.h"
+#include "../gluon/kal/kaloggstreamer.h"
diff --git a/kal/includes/KALPhonon b/kal/includes/KALPhonon
index 8a86ae1..1592dae 100644
--- a/kal/includes/KALPhonon
+++ b/kal/includes/KALPhonon
@@ -1 +1 @@
-#include "../kalengine/kalphonon.h"
+#include "../gluon/kal/kalphonon.h"
diff --git a/kal/includes/KALSoundLoader b/kal/includes/KALSoundLoader
index 21fc9d2..90979df 100644
--- a/kal/includes/KALSoundLoader
+++ b/kal/includes/KALSoundLoader
@@ -1 +1 @@
-#include "../kalengine/kalsoundloader.h"
+#include "../gluon/kal/kalsoundloader.h"
diff --git a/kal/includes/KALSource b/kal/includes/KALSource
index d5ff01c..78976b5 100644
--- a/kal/includes/KALSource
+++ b/kal/includes/KALSource
@@ -1 +1 @@
-#include "../kalengine/kalsource.h"
+#include "../gluon/kal/kalsource.h"


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Re: granatier

by Mathias Kraus-2 :: Rate this Message:

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Parker Coates schrieb am Mittwoch 02 September 2009:

> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 15:50, Mathias Kraus wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > maybe you remember me. I am the guy who wants to make a bomberman like game for kde.
> > well, I did some coding the last months and I think it's now in a playable state. there are still some rough edges and missing features from clanbomber, but if I can keep the pace till october, maybe it can go into 4.4.
> > if you want to try it, you need to build gluon first, because I use it for the sound. had some problems with phonon, but if you want I could temporally remove the dependeny to gluon to make it easier for you to test it.
>
> As far as I know, there's never been a stable release of Gluon, which
> means code relying on it can't be shipped as part of KDE. Until Gluon
> makes a stable release and either gets packaged by distributions or
> moves into KDE somewhere, you are pretty much stuck. :(

I know, but I talked to the gluon devs and they want to make a release before/with KDE4.4.
But I think I'll also do a phonon fallback in the case gluon won't be released or there are problems on other platforms beside linux.
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Re: granatier

by Mathias Kraus-2 :: Rate this Message:

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Arturo Silva schrieb am Mittwoch 02 September 2009:

> Hello Mathias.
>
> I do agree that depending on this library may be problematic, and if the
> missing functionality can be coded independently of it I think it will be
> worth the wait.
>
> However, I wouldn't mind at all bulding and trying out your game, as I used
> to be quite a big fan of bomberman back in the day.  :)
>
> I am without-a-doubt new here, so if you can supply some brief instructions
> on how I can download and build it (including this gluon even) I can most
> definitely give it a spin this evening and provide feedback accordingly.
> [My first assumption is that the process is kicked off with svn co -N svn://
> anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/games/ .]
>
> Thanks in advance!  :)

Hi,

you can get gluon from here
http://gitorious.org/gluon
but you have to apply the patch in one of my previous mail.
checkout the source and build it. I assume you want to install it to /usr/local
go to the gluon root directory and make a folder build. go to the build folder and then do the following
cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/local ..
make
sudo make install (or sudo checkinstall if you have a debian based distribution and want to remove it easily)

yes, with the following you can checkout the granatier source
 svn co svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/games/granatier
go to the granatier root folder and make a build folder. go to the build folder and do the following
cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/local -DCMAKE_MODULE_PATH=/usr/local/share/apps/cmake/modules ..
make
sudo make install (or sudo checkinstall)

have fun :)

regards,
mathias
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Re: granatier

by Arturo Silva :: Rate this Message:

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> yes, with the following you can checkout the granatier source
>  svn co svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/games/granatier
> go to the granatier root folder and make a build folder. go to the build folder and do the following
> cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/local -DCMAKE_MODULE_PATH=/usr/local/share/apps/cmake/modules ..
> make
> sudo make install (or sudo checkinstall)
>
> have fun :)
>
>


Thank you Mathias.  :D

Matt pointed me to a build tutorial, so I'll be reading that as well
in the evening and use your instructions as an example.  With any
luck, it won't be long before I won't have to ask people for build
instructions.  :P

Once I have it built, I'll test it out and let you know what I find.
Ill be focusing on gameplay, documentation, usability and art, since
that's the only thing I'm honestly qualified to judge.  ^^;

Take care till then!


--Arturo "C-quel" Silva
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Re: granatier

by Mathias Kraus-2 :: Rate this Message:

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hello again,

today I commited a fallback to granatier to use phonon if gluon is not found. it works but not very well if there are many sounds at the same thime. I need to improve it, but if you wanted to try granatier and couldn't because of not having gluon, there is now no excuse to not try it ;)

regards, mathias
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Re: granatier

by Arturo Silva :: Rate this Message:

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Thank you, Mathias.  ^^

Although as you know, thanks to your help, I did manage to build Gluon
and Granatier.  Admittedly there were a few problems doing this, since
a lot of the cmake files were referencing to the wrong headers, but
hopefully this will be a thing of the past once the underlying Gluon
code stabilizes.

Also, remember I am not a coder, I'm not quite sure if this is
currently in its alpha or beta stage, and also can't say if this is
the honest-to-goodness current version of your game (or whether you're
working on improved graphics/sounds in private).  So forgive me if I
point things out unfairly, since I am only writing this feedback from
the POV of an artist and user.

To make this easier to read, I'm presenting my analysis in a PROs,
CONs and WISHes list, followed by bullet points:

PROs
=====

- Although I've seen this with all the dev games tested so far, I'm
glad to see the polish of the build implementation.  Meaning the game
already sets itself correctly in the Games menu (with bomb icon, which
is neat), and already has all the Main Menu fields established with
default field entries.  In essence, it already feels like it can be
include in KDE just be outright appearance.

- The graphics, though simple, are as you said quite complete, and the
game itself is in a playable state.

- The addition of sounds was a great touch that adds an admirable
level of polish, and while they do seem a bit rough for the context (I
kind of expect the balls to squeak painfully when blown up, not yell
like a dead FPS character), at least they are in place.  It would
simply be a matter of changing them based on the theme if possible.

- Though the sprites themselves have no animation, the clever
"wobbling" of the goo balls as they walk, or the expansion/contraction
of the bombs as they get set is a quite clever and charming way to
compensate.

- Pausing when removing focus from the game is also a good addition,
although I still wonder if the same holds true during a multiplayer
match if later supported.



CONs
=====

- There is no Help file yet.  Obviously might be too early in the
stage for this, but we have to make sure one is ready by October.  Of
course I can help with this. ^__~

- There is no AI.  Again, likely too early in the stage for that, but
without another player it got pretty boring blasting things by myself
while the little red blob just sat there waiting to get blown up.  :P

- The two add-ons, one to increase speed, the other to increase range,
took me a while to understand what they do.  Either this will have to
be explained in the future help documentation, or we can look into
making their icons a bit clearer (such as the speed icon can be a pair
of shoes instead).

- Unlike the bomberman games I played, the movement is not restricted
to the tiles (even thoug bomb and explosion placement is).  While this
allows for much smoother movement, this ironically cuts down in the
polish of the game because the movement around the corridors ands up
looking a bit awkward (like you press down near the corner of a wall,
and the whole blob just shifts over to the next panel).  Worse yet, if
you're in an open area and try to evade a bomb, you don't have to
switch over to a different tile -- simply nudging the blob a little to
the left or right will avoid the explosion, even if the blob is still
visibly within the outline of the explosion.

- The configuration screen is a bit sparse and also has the same icon
for Theme and Arena, and currently theme only changes the bomb type,
not the graphical theme of the map.  Then again, this is something I
can help with (graphically).  :)


WISHes
======

- Hopefully more add-ons that allow the player to do different things
(such as create walls or set traps or make the bombs homing or explode
more in a single direction..

- A little scorekeeper somewhere on the map view itself would help, as
there's not much movement on screen aside from the activity of the
blobs

- Additional difficulties only decrease the speed of the blobs.  But
the starting speed in Level 0 does seem a bit slow -- perhaps raising
this a little will help make the game more fast-paced.  Also,
introducing other handicaps such as being able to use a finite level
of bombs (when you run out, it takes 6 seconds to generate a new one,
unless you can find a cache of bombs in one of the blocks) can also
lead to more gameplay challenges.  :)

- I know we talked about animation before, but this is very important
and can allow for an unparalleled level of polish if implemented
properly.  I still don't know why few of the KDE games use animated
sprites (KGoldRunner is the only one that comes to mind, because even
KSpaceDuel just moves shapes around which is different), and I worry
the reason is technical since this will limit the ability to make
really eye-catching games.  Not to say we can't work with a static
environment, but if at all possible this really should be something to
look at seriously.  Granatier has many places where animation can be
used to make the gameplay more lively and exciting (and I've already
mentioned a few to you).  As I look into contributing some artwork to
this, I'll see if maybe I can help discover the mystery behind
animated sprites in QT4.  ;)


And that should be all I have for you today.
Thank you for walking me through how I can start changing some of the
artwork.  I'm interested in creating a Konqi theme, with two dragons
duking it out and laying rotten dinosaur eggs as the bombs.  I'll also
have to play clanbomber to get an idea of what your inspiration was,
as I admit I didn't play it much myself for XYZ reasons.  ;)

Hopefully the feedback is useful.  If you have any questions about it,
let me know.

Thanks again for your help and your work with Granatier!


--Arturo "C-quel" Silva


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Re: granatier

by Arturo Silva :: Rate this Message:

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And as a quick update I just tried playing clanbomber.  I see the goo
balls and the sounds were pulled from that game, and while this is
okay for now I would definitely encourage the use of original art and
sounds as the default later on (but still have the ability to use this
"Clanbomber" theme for nostalgia's sake).

Also, I almost forgot to mention in my CONs list, but regardless of
the range, the bombs only destroy 1 adjacent tile per direction,
whereas in clanbomber and in other bomberman games, certain powerups
allow you to destroy 2, 3, even 4 adjacent tiles.

Now even though I had a hard time figuring out how to control my own
goo ball in Clanbomber (I guess this is meant more for multiplayer
action), it at least demonstrates what I said before about animation.
Just watching the AI goo balls (and their bugs) tear each other apart
with lively explosions and significant action on-screen was pretty
darn fun.  :D


--Arturo
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Re: granatier

by Mathias Kraus-2 :: Rate this Message:

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Arturo Silva schrieb am Freitag 11 September 2009:
> Thank you, Mathias.  ^^
>
> Although as you know, thanks to your help, I did manage to build Gluon
> and Granatier.  Admittedly there were a few problems doing this, since
> a lot of the cmake files were referencing to the wrong headers, but
> hopefully this will be a thing of the past once the underlying Gluon
> code stabilizes.

me too :)

> Also, remember I am not a coder, I'm not quite sure if this is
> currently in its alpha or beta stage, and also can't say if this is
> the honest-to-goodness current version of your game (or whether you're
> working on improved graphics/sounds in private).  So forgive me if I
> point things out unfairly, since I am only writing this feedback from
> the POV of an artist and user.

I would consider it as alpha feature wise but I always try to keep it very stable, so there shouldn't be any chrashes hopefully.

> To make this easier to read, I'm presenting my analysis in a PROs,
> CONs and WISHes list, followed by bullet points:
>
> PROs
> =====
>
> - Although I've seen this with all the dev games tested so far, I'm
> glad to see the polish of the build implementation.  Meaning the game
> already sets itself correctly in the Games menu (with bomb icon, which
> is neat), and already has all the Main Menu fields established with
> default field entries.  In essence, it already feels like it can be
> include in KDE just be outright appearance.
>
> - The graphics, though simple, are as you said quite complete, and the
> game itself is in a playable state.

thanks

> - The addition of sounds was a great touch that adds an admirable
> level of polish, and while they do seem a bit rough for the context (I
> kind of expect the balls to squeak painfully when blown up, not yell
> like a dead FPS character), at least they are in place.  It would
> simply be a matter of changing them based on the theme if possible.

actually it's kind of a joke. look for the "wilhelm scream"

> - Though the sprites themselves have no animation, the clever
> "wobbling" of the goo balls as they walk, or the expansion/contraction
> of the bombs as they get set is a quite clever and charming way to
> compensate.
>
> - Pausing when removing focus from the game is also a good addition,
> although I still wonder if the same holds true during a multiplayer
> match if later supported.

I'n not sure either

>
> CONs
> =====
>
> - There is no Help file yet.  Obviously might be too early in the
> stage for this, but we have to make sure one is ready by October.  Of
> course I can help with this. ^__~

yes, it's too early in the development, but I would appreciate any help in that field when it's in a more advanced state.

> - There is no AI.  Again, likely too early in the stage for that, but
> without another player it got pretty boring blasting things by myself
> while the little red blob just sat there waiting to get blown up.  :P

I think there won't be any AI for 4.4. only local multiplayer. have you tried to move the second player with W,A,S,D and putting the bomb with Q. the third player is I, J, K, L and SPACE and the fourth player R, T, Z, G and C.
I need to make it configurable though.

> - The two add-ons, one to increase speed, the other to increase range,
> took me a while to understand what they do.  Either this will have to
> be explained in the future help documentation, or we can look into
> making their icons a bit clearer (such as the speed icon can be a pair
> of shoes instead).

this is all work in progress from a coder with little to medium artistic skills.

> - Unlike the bomberman games I played, the movement is not restricted
> to the tiles (even thoug bomb and explosion placement is).  While this
> allows for much smoother movement, this ironically cuts down in the
> polish of the game because the movement around the corridors ands up
> looking a bit awkward (like you press down near the corner of a wall,
> and the whole blob just shifts over to the next panel).  Worse yet, if
> you're in an open area and try to evade a bomb, you don't have to
> switch over to a different tile -- simply nudging the blob a little to
> the left or right will avoid the explosion, even if the blob is still
> visibly within the outline of the explosion.

this is similar to clanbomber, except the explosion, that's kind of a bug :)
I'm not sure if the player also should die if he get's only a little bit hit by the explosion.

> - The configuration screen is a bit sparse and also has the same icon
> for Theme and Arena, and currently theme only changes the bomb type,
> not the graphical theme of the map.  Then again, this is something I
> can help with (graphically).  :)

the icons are now changed. the map was just a quick copy and paste to test the theming.

>
> WISHes
> ======
>
> - Hopefully more add-ons that allow the player to do different things
> (such as create walls or set traps or make the bombs homing or explode
> more in a single direction..

it's already on my TODO

> - A little scorekeeper somewhere on the map view itself would help, as
> there's not much movement on screen aside from the activity of the
> blobs

also on my TODO

> - Additional difficulties only decrease the speed of the blobs.  But
> the starting speed in Level 0 does seem a bit slow -- perhaps raising
> this a little will help make the game more fast-paced.  Also,
> introducing other handicaps such as being able to use a finite level
> of bombs (when you run out, it takes 6 seconds to generate a new one,
> unless you can find a cache of bombs in one of the blocks) can also
> lead to more gameplay challenges.  :)

handicaps are also on my TODO like them from clanbomber

> - I know we talked about animation before, but this is very important
> and can allow for an unparalleled level of polish if implemented
> properly.  I still don't know why few of the KDE games use animated
> sprites (KGoldRunner is the only one that comes to mind, because even
> KSpaceDuel just moves shapes around which is different), and I worry
> the reason is technical since this will limit the ability to make
> really eye-catching games.  Not to say we can't work with a static
> environment, but if at all possible this really should be something to
> look at seriously.  Granatier has many places where animation can be
> used to make the gameplay more lively and exciting (and I've already
> mentioned a few to you).  As I look into contributing some artwork to
> this, I'll see if maybe I can help discover the mystery behind
> animated sprites in QT4.  ;)

for the first release their won't be much more animations. I try to animate the explosion a bit, but beside that there won't be anything I thing, at least for the moment.

>
> And that should be all I have for you today.
> Thank you for walking me through how I can start changing some of the
> artwork.  I'm interested in creating a Konqi theme, with two dragons
> duking it out and laying rotten dinosaur eggs as the bombs.  I'll also
> have to play clanbomber to get an idea of what your inspiration was,
> as I admit I didn't play it much myself for XYZ reasons.  ;)

would be fantastic. an idea would also be to use konqi, tux, the BSD beastie etc.
my plan is to separate the player from the theme, so that they don't have to be redone for every theme.

> Hopefully the feedback is useful.  If you have any questions about it,
> let me know.
>
> Thanks again for your help and your work with Granatier!

thanks for taking time for testing granatier

>
> --Arturo "C-quel" Silva
>
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