how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
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how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by Zhang Weiwu
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Hello. I have a midi keyboard, once connected to my PC, cat /dev/midi
would produce junk text when I press the keys, thus I consider it properly installed. And the PC runs Debian Lenny, timidity runs by /etc/init.d/timidity, and pmidi -p128:0 plays midi files just fine, so I think midi output is working. Now I am trying to connect the two, with the intention to use midi keyboard + PC as an electronic piano. I hope I can start to play without any feature like recording, mixing, composing, showing musical notes etc and get to know other features slowly (really slow, I hope I can manage other technical in one year or so) so i want to avoid diving into complicated software like RoseGarden (it require jackd which is damn difficult to get working right and stable on my PC, tired 2 days! consider I am 4-year experienced Linux sysadmin this is really difficult). is there a way to simply "connect" midi keyboard with a minimal software that can play it? A traditional Linux user would imagine: $ something < /dev/midi > timidity would work, after googling it seems obvious musician/geek think differently. Thanks in advance for hints! P.S. I tried several days to run MusE/RoseGarden/seq24 while could not making them work, and frustrated knowing what I need is only a fraction of what these software I am working on. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by bvdp
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I didn't know you could do this ... but you can. Easy.
1. Startup timidity as a sequencer client. timidity -iA & 2. Determine what ports you have. Use aplaymidi -l (aconnect -l doesn't work on my box). I have a number of timidity ports 128:0, 128:1, etc and a port for my keyboard 16:0 3. Connect the keyboard and timidity ports (this is probably the step you missed). In my case: aconnect 16:0 128:0 Now play the keyboard. Timidity plays the sounds. Cool.
On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 3:35 AM, Zhang Weiwu <zhangweiwu@...> wrote: Hello. I have a midi keyboard, once connected to my PC, cat /dev/midi -- **** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob@... WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski
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> aconnect 16:0 128:0
Alternatively there's a small utility called alsa-patch-bay that does it in GUI ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by bvdp
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Of course, the biggest problem with all this is that even on a fast machine the latency will kill you. Takes me less than 10 notes to be 1/4 second ahead/behind. Does it work any better with jack?
On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski <rambo@...> wrote:
-- **** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob@... WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by Zhang Weiwu
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On Sat, 4 Jul 2009, Bob van der Poel wrote: > Of course, the biggest problem with all this is that even on a fast machine the latency will > kill you. Takes me less than 10 notes to be 1/4 second ahead/behind. Does it work any better > with jack? Thank you very much for all of your reply. Without your help I probably would have to dig documents and manage to figure out after a huge learning curve of RoseGarden first. My jack sound server stop working when some application used it for several miniutes or when it quits and second application start to use it. I don't get the reason for latency. In my guess alsa shouldn't have big latency because when I play first person shooter games the game require latency less than 25ms otherwise there could be seriouls mistake aiming and shooting, and alsa did that without jackd. What's hindering alsa performance when it comes to midi that it latences 250ms? Thanks. Zhang Weiwu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by bvdp
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No idea what the latency issue is. Honestly, this is the big reason I don't use computers for recording. Too damn annoying for me. I prefer to record using my MR8 or Zoom H4 and then copying the files to the computer. Now I can edit tracks, etc. to my heart's delight and not worry about jack aborting, latency issues, etc.
Maybe someday I'll understand why a cheap 8 bit cpu in a dedicated device can do just fine ... and my quad core super-duper-cpu can't keep up. Progress, I guess. On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Zhang Weiwu <zhangweiwu@...> wrote:
-- **** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob@... WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by wataru.em
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Hi.
>Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 08:24:44 +0800 (CST) >From: Zhang Weiwu <zhangweiwu@...> >Subject: Re: [timidity-talk] how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic > piano > > What's hindering alsa >performance when it comes to midi that it latences 250ms? TiMidity++ seems not to be designed for realtime MIDI playing, tuned for midi file player, midi-to-wav converter. Under WinXP, -q and -B option , and ASIO interface, will make slightly better response, but, delay kills me playing realtime with MIDI keys.:-p # even CPU usages quite below 100%. I've tried fluidsynth/qsynth, which seems to respond better than TiMidity++ for realtime MIDI key playing. # even under windows sound driver on WinXP. # May be more better response on Linux box. Hardware MIDI box did more better work (better response) for realtime playing. (even MIDI signal path thru WinXP box and returned to Hardware MIDI box.) # compared with qsynth on WinXP. -- wataru_em, Holiday Keyboard player.:-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by wataru.em
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Hi. (again?)
>Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 08:24:44 +0800 (CST) >From: Zhang Weiwu <zhangweiwu@...> >Subject: Re: [timidity-talk] how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic > piano > > What's hindering alsa >performance when it comes to midi that it latences 250ms? TiMidity++ seems not to be designed for realtime MIDI playing, tuned for midi file player, midi-to-wav converter. Under WinXP, -q and -B option , and ASIO interface, will make slightly better response, but, delay kills me playing realtime with MIDI keys.:-p # even CPU usages quite below 100%. I've tried fluidsynth/qsynth, which seems to respond better than TiMidity++ for realtime MIDI key playing. # even under windows sound driver on WinXP. # May be more better response on Linux box. Hardware MIDI box did more better work (better response) for realtime playing. (even MIDI signal path thru WinXP box and returned to Hardware MIDI box.) # compared with qsynth on WinXP. -- wataru.em, Holiday Keyboard player.:-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by Zhang Weiwu
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Bob van der Poel wrote:
> I didn't know you could do this ... but you can. Easy. > > 1. Startup timidity as a sequencer client. > > timidity -iA & > > 2. Determine what ports you have. Use aplaymidi -l (aconnect -l > doesn't work on my box). I have a number of timidity ports 128:0, > 128:1, etc and a port for my keyboard 16:0 > > 3. Connect the keyboard and timidity ports (this is probably the step > you missed). In my case: > > aconnect 16:0 128:0 know for sure my input device ID? I have /dev/midi that pops up character when I press the keyboard so I know it is the input device, but aconnect recognize only numeric device number. Here is my system: zhangweiwu@zobeide:~$ aconnect -i client 0: 'System' [type=kernel] 0 'Timer ' 1 'Announce ' client 14: 'Midi Through' [type=kernel] 0 'Midi Through Port-0' client 16: 'Yamaha OPL3-SA23' [type=kernel] 0 'Yamaha OPL3-SA23 MIDI' zhangweiwu@zobeide:~$ aconnect -o client 14: 'Midi Through' [type=kernel] 0 'Midi Through Port-0' client 16: 'Yamaha OPL3-SA23' [type=kernel] 0 'Yamaha OPL3-SA23 MIDI' client 17: 'OPL3 FM synth' [type=kernel] 0 'OPL3 FM Port ' client 128: 'TiMidity' [type=user] 0 'TiMidity port 0 ' 1 'TiMidity port 1 ' 2 'TiMidity port 2 ' 3 'TiMidity port 3 ' I thought 14:0 is my output device and tested doing aconnect on it, result: no sound output. By the way, what does the port "Yamaha OPL3-SA23" and "OPL3 FM synth" mean? Does that mean I can play midi without using timidity? I tried to pmidi with both device and can hear nothing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by wataru.em
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Guessing your hardware configuration from aconnect
info. GUESS: -------------- [midi key]==(midi cable)==[<MIDI card> desktop PC] -------------- MIDI card: OPL3-SA23 chip, MIDI in/out connecter. >zhangweiwu@zobeide:~$ aconnect -i >client 16: 'Yamaha OPL3-SA23' [type=kernel] > 0 'Yamaha OPL3-SA23 MIDI' This seems MIDI-input of your MIDI soundcard, which is wired to your MIDI-input connecter of your MIDI card. >zhangweiwu@zobeide:~$ aconnect -o >client 16: 'Yamaha OPL3-SA23' [type=kernel] > 0 'Yamaha OPL3-SA23 MIDI' This seems MIDI-output of your MIDI card, which is wired to your MIDI-output connecter of your MIDI card. >client 17: 'OPL3 FM synth' [type=kernel] > 0 'OPL3 FM Port ' This seems FM sound chip interface on your MIDI card. May need FM sound driver/application to use this. >client 128: 'TiMidity' [type=user] > 0 'TiMidity port 0 ' > 1 'TiMidity port 1 ' > 2 'TiMidity port 2 ' > 3 'TiMidity port 3 ' TiMidity's MIDI-input is here. 4port is waiting for MIDI input. >I thought 14:0 is my output device and tested doing aconnect on it, result: n o sound output. 16:0 seems your MIDI input and output. So, >> aconnect 16:0 128:0 may help you. -- wataru_em, Holiday Keyboard player.:-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by Zhang Weiwu
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wataru.em@... wrote:
>>> aconnect 16:0 128:0 >>> > may help you. > Thanks for your detailed and clear answer. Now I made it working! Great. The latency is less than 250ms in my case, but I cannot tell how much. I guess less than 80ms because my ear could not tell the difference of less than 80ms yet, so to me it is almost realtime. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by bvdp
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Interesting about the latency. Could you share with the rest of us how you're doing this? Are you hitting a number of keys or just plinking one by one?
Oh, and what soundfont? I'm using a very large (good sounding) piano font ... and it's size might have a bearing. When I get a chance I should try with a short, crappy sounding one. Glad it's working for you. On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Zhang Weiwu <zhangweiwu@...> wrote: wataru.em@... wrote: -- **** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob@... WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by Zhang Weiwu
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Bob van der Poel wrote:
> Interesting about the latency. Could you share with the rest of us how > you're doing this? Are you hitting a number of keys or just plinking > one by one? > It isn't really useful to share this I guess, because my set up crashes if I hit a dozen keys or so, either plinking one by one or hitting more keys together. > Oh, and what soundfont? I'm using a very large (good sounding) piano > font ... and it's size might have a bearing. When I get a chance I > should try with a short, crappy sounding one. I don't know how to get a sound font yet! Can you send the address to download your sound file, if it is free of charge? I did not use any sound font. timidity installation depends on freepat package which introduced a lot of .pat files which I guess is used to produce the sound, but the files' name doesn't end with .sf2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by Zhang Weiwu
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Zhang Weiwu wrote:
> Bob van der Poel wrote: > >> Interesting about the latency. Could you share with the rest of us how >> you're doing this? Are you hitting a number of keys or just plinking >> one by one? >> >> > It isn't really useful to share this I guess, because my set up crashes > if I hit a dozen keys or so, either plinking one by one or hitting more > keys together. > that says should be uncommented for slow machine. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by bvdp
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I don't recall where I got these. Best to do a google search (I just entered SGM-V2.01.sf2 into google and a wack of results ... the file is about 100meg, compressed. ... anyone know of a better, free, font please let me know!) As I
recall, I had to get the file in chunks and then merge it ... but it's
been several years. It does sound pretty decent to me. To use just make
the following changes to the /etc/timidity/timidity.cfg file.
#source /etc/timidity/freepats.cfg soundfont /home/bob/sounds/sfx-lib/SGM-V2.01.sf2 #where you file is stored! But it's funny ... I can't get it to work at all tonight. But, it's not that worthwhile to try either. I use timidity to play my MMA generated background tracks when I'm using my laptop as a device on small/solo gigs I do with my sax. With the SGM font package the sounds are quite decent.
-- **** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob@... WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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Re: how to turn a midi keyboard into an electronic piano
by Eric Welsh
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On Tue, 7 Jul 2009, Zhang Weiwu wrote:
> Forgot to mention, I uncommented the lines in /etc/timidity/timidity.cfg > that says should be uncommented for slow machine. I haven't tried using it with a realtime keyboard interface in Linux, but I've been using it as a softsynth in Windows for general midi playback. I don't know about latency issues, but it plays back smoothly for me on my ancient box (circa 2001). I've been using the following timidity.cfg options: #extension opt -s 44100 #extension opt -f #extension opt -EFresamp=L #extension opt -EFreverb=4,21 #extension opt -EFns=0 #extension opt -m 3000 #extension opt -p 256 #extension opt -EFchorus=2 Cut the sample rate from 48000 to 44100 to save some CPU, use the fast decay rate (sounds better to me, will save CPU too), use Lagrange interpolation (way faster than default Gauss-like), use the 4th reverb mode with a global level of 21 (global is way faster than the default per-channel mode), disable noise shaping (I think it sounds better off, should save CPU too), set a 3 second downramp on pedal sustains to prevent "stuck" pedals, make sure polyphony is set to max to prevent prematurely discarded notes, and choose the pseudo-surround chorus mode (your preference may vary, I think it's probably slower than the default chorus mode too). Setting -EFreverb=0 and/or -EFchorus=0 to disable reverb or chorus will of course save CPU too. I don't know if it will help with latency or not, but it might be worth a try. -Eric ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/blackberry _______________________________________________ Timidity-talk mailing list Timidity-talk@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/timidity-talk |
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