jOrgan 3.8 third beta

View: New views

20 Messages — Rating Filter: Alert me

< Prev | 1 - 2 | Next >

jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by svenmeier :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Hi all,

beta 3 is available for download:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/

- new Ranks now use 'reset all controllers' as first Engaged message
(old Ranks were already converted in previous betas),
- Customizer uses 1-16 channel "user" naming
- Creative and Soundfont imports have an additional option for touch
sensitivity (not selected by default),
- on eject both Recorder and Memory view will now use the disposition's
folder to choose a file from.
- full screen action is now located in the 'file' menu
- you can now extract memory definitions from old dispositions, see

http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory

Have fun

Sven

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta - Test Results

by lwalls :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

I installed the 3.8 beta 3 and everything is working fine so far.

The new capability for extracting memory definitions from old
dispositions works.

However, the process for performing this extract requires running a
command line utility PRIOR to allowing jOrgan 3.8 to convert the old 3.7
disposition to 3.8 format, then making a modification/update to the
converted disposition.

The THIRD step in the procedure is necessary, and it is is not
explicitly indicated in the documentation reference:

http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory

Here are the three steps for converting memory levels from old (pre 3.8)
dispositions:

1. Execute the command line utility as described here:
http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory

2. Open the old disposition whose memory you just extracted in
step #1 above, and allow jOrgan 3.8 to convert and save it.

3. While the disposition is loaded into jOrgan, go into
"Construct organ" mode and locate the "Memory" element.
In the Properties tab for this element you will see a new
Property named "Storage". The jOrgan 3.8 disposition conversion
process will not automatically populate this Property value for
you, so the value for this Property will be empty (blank)...at
least it was for me. So, you must click on this property value
and navigate to the [disposition-name].memory file that was
created in step #1 above. If you do not do this step, the
memory levels that you converted in step #1 will NOT be available
in the converted disposition.

After you exit "Construct organ" mode your memory levels should now all
be available as before.

CLW
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sven Meier wrote:
> beta 3 is available for download:

>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/
>
> - new Ranks now use 'reset all controllers' as first Engaged message
> (old Ranks were already converted in previous betas),
> - Customizer uses 1-16 channel "user" naming
> - Creative and Soundfont imports have an additional option for touch
> sensitivity (not selected by default),
> - on eject both Recorder and Memory view will now use the disposition's
> folder to choose a file from.
> - full screen action is now located in the 'file' menu
> - you can now extract memory definitions from old dispositions, see
>
> http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta - Test Results

by amvjl :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Hi Lynn,

Thanks a lot for the THIRD step in the procedure.

About the FIRST one, VISTA users may encounter a problem executing the
command :
java -jar lib/memory.jar yourDisposition.disposition
If the Automatic User Authorization is not disabled, the
yourDisposition.memory file is not created.

NB : You can see the messages making a launch file with Notepad containing 2
lines :
Line 1 : java -jar lib/memory.jar yourDisposition.disposition
Line 2 : pause
Rename the .txt in .bat and execute.
The pause command in Line2 lets you read the messages after executing the
command in Line 1.

If it can help ;)

BTW, so many thanks to Sven for this amazing memory facility.
It's just great and let us so many possibilities in the use of jOrgan.

Jacques

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Walls" <lwalls@...>
To: <jorgan-user@...>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta - Test Results

>I installed the 3.8 beta 3 and everything is working fine so far.
>
> The new capability for extracting memory definitions from old
> dispositions works.
>
> However, the process for performing this extract requires running a
> command line utility PRIOR to allowing jOrgan 3.8 to convert the old 3.7
> disposition to 3.8 format, then making a modification/update to the
> converted disposition.
>
> The THIRD step in the procedure is necessary, and it is is not
> explicitly indicated in the documentation reference:
>
> http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory
>
> Here are the three steps for converting memory levels from old (pre 3.8)
> dispositions:
>
> 1. Execute the command line utility as described here:
> http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory
>
> 2. Open the old disposition whose memory you just extracted in
> step #1 above, and allow jOrgan 3.8 to convert and save it.
>
> 3. While the disposition is loaded into jOrgan, go into
> "Construct organ" mode and locate the "Memory" element.
> In the Properties tab for this element you will see a new
> Property named "Storage". The jOrgan 3.8 disposition conversion
> process will not automatically populate this Property value for
> you, so the value for this Property will be empty (blank)...at
> least it was for me. So, you must click on this property value
> and navigate to the [disposition-name].memory file that was
> created in step #1 above. If you do not do this step, the
> memory levels that you converted in step #1 will NOT be available
> in the converted disposition.
>
> After you exit "Construct organ" mode your memory levels should now all
> be available as before.
>
> CLW
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sven Meier wrote:
> > beta 3 is available for download:
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/
>>
>> - new Ranks now use 'reset all controllers' as first Engaged message
>> (old Ranks were already converted in previous betas),
>> - Customizer uses 1-16 channel "user" naming
>> - Creative and Soundfont imports have an additional option for touch
>> sensitivity (not selected by default),
>> - on eject both Recorder and Memory view will now use the disposition's
>> folder to choose a file from.
>> - full screen action is now located in the 'file' menu
>> - you can now extract memory definitions from old dispositions, see
>>
>> http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> jOrgan-user@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by Roy Radford :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Hi, Sven,

I have just downloaded beta 3 and notice that "Save As" is still missing. Do you intend to restore it in the final version? I use it a great deal as a disposition takes shape, repeatedly Save As <filname01>, <filename02> etc so I can always go back if I mess things up big time.

I intend to rely heavily on General pistons, so if I ever learn more than 10 tunes (!) I'll probably Save As <song title>. If I use all 10 memory levels, I may Save As <COP Book 5 pp6_26> or somesuch.

.........................

    Talking of messing things up, I have a dispo with 4 consoles. I used to have 4 tabs at the top of the screen, and could choose the consoles one by one. I accidentally dragged one tab down a bit, and a split screen appeared, leaving only three tabs on the original one and one on the new screen. I can't seem to find any way to get back to the original single screen with 4 tabs???

       Have fun,

           Roy.

--- On Fri, 9/10/09, Sven Meier <sven@...> wrote:

From: Sven Meier <sven@...>
Subject: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta
To: jorgan-user@...
Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 9:17 PM

Hi all,

beta 3 is available for download:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/

- new Ranks now use 'reset all controllers' as first Engaged message
(old Ranks were already converted in previous betas),
- Customizer uses 1-16 channel "user" naming
- Creative and Soundfont imports have an additional option for touch
sensitivity (not selected by default),
- on eject both Recorder and Memory view will now use the disposition's
folder to choose a file from.
- full screen action is now located in the 'file' menu
- you can now extract memory definitions from old dispositions, see

http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory

Have fun

Sven

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: Pipe Integration

by Aletcetc :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Greetings all -

Now that i have my pipes up and running, (or at least one rank ready to go), I am ready to start creating my Jorgan combo.

Would someone in the pipe combo community be willing to share their disposition with me so i might use it as a learning tool? I plan to modify Pauls' ACO by adding my pipes to the great. I just need to see a working example to get me started.

Thanks in advance -

Al

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by Roy Radford :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Hi again, Sven,

TRIVIA:

            I'm curious as to why you feel the File menu is more appropriate than the View menu for a change (Of View?) from normal to full screen.

     In any case, I've often wondered how many newcomers are panicked by the fact that in full screen mode, for obvious reasons, you can't see either menu anyway. However would they guess at F11 to get back? Some Media players display "Press <ESC> to exit full screen" for a few seconds at entry. Would it be a big hassle to program a similar thing for F11 in this case?

       Have fun,

           Roy.

--- On Fri, 9/10/09, Sven Meier <sven@...> wrote:

From: Sven Meier <sven@...>
Subject: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta
To: jorgan-user@...
Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 9:17 PM

Hi all,

beta 3 is available for download:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/

- new Ranks now use 'reset all controllers' as first Engaged message
(old Ranks were already converted in previous betas),
- Customizer uses 1-16 channel "user" naming
- Creative and Soundfont imports have an additional option for touch
sensitivity (not selected by default),
- on eject both Recorder and Memory view will now use the disposition's
folder to choose a file from.
- full screen action is now located in the 'file' menu
- you can now extract memory definitions from old dispositions, see

http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory

Have fun

Sven

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by lwalls :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Roy Radford wrote:
> In any case, I've often wondered how many newcomers are
panicked by
> the fact that in full screen mode, for obvious reasons, you can't see
> either menu anyway. However would they guess at F11 to get back?

...or right-click and select "Close"...which will work too.

CLW

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by lwalls :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

I can see some complications that would have to be worked out if the
"Save As" function is restored. One of them would be how to deal with
the ".memory" file, which is now a separate file and no longer included
in the .disposition file.

So if you would do a Save As to another file name, should the memory
file be copied and saved under that same new name?

If so, then you are going to have to have a separate .memory file
created for every .disposition saved-as another name. Then Sven would
have to "hard-link" the name of the corresponding .memory file to the
specific .disposition file. In this case Sven should probably get rid
of the new Storage property in the Memory element so that the user
cannot arbitrarily link a disposition to a .memory file which has not
been specifically built to match that disposition.

If there is NOT to be a new, separate .memory file created when you do a
Save As", then suppose what you changed something structural in the
disposition before you saved it with Save As, like the Ranks or Stops
structure. Now the disposition structure under the saved-as name is no
longer coordinated with what has been previously saved in the .memory
file. So, do you now have Sven ALTER the .memory file referenced by the
Storage Property of the Memory element to be synchronized with the new
Rank and Stop structure in the saved-as file? If so, then that .memory
file would now no longer match the ORIGINAL .disposition file that still
exists under the original name and still references that same .memory
file!!!!

What do you think Sven should do to resolve this dilemma, Roy?

CLW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roy Radford wrote:
> I have just downloaded beta 3 and notice that "Save As" is
> still missing. Do you intend to restore it in the final version? I use
> it a great deal as a disposition takes shape, repeatedly Save As
> <filname01>, <filename02> etc so I can always go back if I mess things
> up big time.
>
> I intend to rely heavily on General pistons, so if I ever learn more
> than 10 tunes (!) I'll probably Save As <song title>. If I use all 10
> memory levels, I may Save As <COP Book 5 pp6_26> or somesuch.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by Roy Radford :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Hi, Lynn,

             I'm not sure I follow all that in detail, but your first option sounds OK to me. Is there really a problem with that?

     Have fun,

         Roy.

--- On Sat, 10/10/09, Lynn Walls <lwalls@...> wrote:

From: Lynn Walls <lwalls@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta
To: jorgan-user@...
Date: Saturday, 10 October, 2009, 2:13 PM

I can see some complications that would have to be worked out if the
"Save As" function is restored. One of them would be how to deal with
the ".memory" file, which is now a separate file and no longer included
in the .disposition file.

So if you would do a Save As to another file name, should the memory
file be copied and saved under that same new name?

If so, then you are going to have to have a separate .memory file
created for every .disposition saved-as another name. Then Sven would
have to "hard-link" the name of the corresponding .memory file to the
specific .disposition file. In this case Sven should probably get rid
of the new Storage property in the Memory element so that the user
cannot arbitrarily link a disposition to a .memory file which has not
been specifically built to match that disposition.

If there is NOT to be a new, separate .memory file created when you do a
Save As", then suppose what you changed something structural in the
disposition before you saved it with Save As, like the Ranks or Stops
structure. Now the disposition structure under the saved-as name is no
longer coordinated with what has been previously saved in the .memory
file. So, do you now have Sven ALTER the .memory file referenced by the
Storage Property of the Memory element to be synchronized with the new
Rank and Stop structure in the saved-as file? If so, then that .memory
file would now no longer match the ORIGINAL .disposition file that still
exists under the original name and still references that same .memory
file!!!!

What do you think Sven should do to resolve this dilemma, Roy?

CLW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roy Radford wrote:
> I have just downloaded beta 3 and notice that "Save As" is
> still missing. Do you intend to restore it in the final version? I use
> it a great deal as a disposition takes shape, repeatedly Save As
> <filname01>, <filename02> etc so I can always go back if I mess things
> up big time.
>
> I intend to rely heavily on General pistons, so if I ever learn more
> than 10 tunes (!) I'll probably Save As <song title>. If I use all 10
> memory levels, I may Save As <COP Book 5 pp6_26> or somesuch.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by Aletcetc :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Dear Sven,

I am having a lot of problems connecting my real pipe ranks to Jorgan 3.7. I am sure it it is something stupid i'm doing wrong or missing. The pipes work with my AXIOM 61 keyboard on channel 2 but i can not for some reason grasp how to take for example Paul stratmans ACO Swell salicional stop and get it to play the pipes.

How do I take an existing audio stop and alter it to play a midi out pipe rank?

I have MIDI Sport 2X2 USB. I want to go Jorgan out to that device on channel 2.

Thanks in advance...

Al

--- On Fri, 10/9/09, Sven Meier <sven@...> wrote:

From: Sven Meier <sven@...>
Subject: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta
To: jorgan-user@...
Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 4:17 PM

Hi all,

beta 3 is available for download:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/

- new Ranks now use 'reset all controllers' as first Engaged message
(old Ranks were already converted in previous betas),
- Customizer uses 1-16 channel "user" naming
- Creative and Soundfont imports have an additional option for touch
sensitivity (not selected by default),
- on eject both Recorder and Memory view will now use the disposition's
folder to choose a file from.
- full screen action is now located in the 'file' menu
- you can now extract memory definitions from old dispositions, see

http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory

Have fun

Sven

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by ErikDS :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Maybe the tutorial on using jOrgan as a frontend to play ranks in the program GrandOrgue points you in the right direction?
The tutorial can be found here .

All the best.

Erik.
---------------------------------------
Al Schroer wrote:

Dear Sven,

I am having a lot of problems connecting my real pipe ranks to Jorgan 3.7. I am sure it it is something stupid i'm doing wrong or missing. The pipes work with my AXIOM 61 keyboard on channel 2 but i can not for some reason grasp how to take for example Paul stratmans ACO Swell salicional stop and get it to play the pipes.

How do I take an existing audio stop and alter it to play a midi out pipe rank?

I have MIDI Sport 2X2 USB. I want to go Jorgan out to that device on channel 2.

Thanks in advance...

Al

-

All the best, Erik.

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by svenmeier :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Hi Roy,

I didn't move the action because of aesthetics:
The file menu is the location where different extensions can insert
their own actions into (Customizer, Importer, ...).
Although the fullscreen feature isn't located in its own extension it
now reuses the same extension mechanism, so it's action has to appear in
the file menu from now on.

>Some Media players display "Press <ESC> to exit full screen" for a few
seconds at entry.
>Would it be a big hassle to program a similar thing for F11 in this case?

I'd love to have such a hint displayed. Definitely something we should
look into for the time after 3.8.

Regards

Sven

Roy Radford wrote:

> Hi again, Sven,
>
> TRIVIA:
>
> I'm curious as to why you feel the File menu is more
> appropriate than the View menu for a change (Of View?) from normal to
> full screen.
>
> In any case, I've often wondered how many newcomers are panicked
> by the fact that in full screen mode, for obvious reasons, you can't
> see either menu anyway. However would they guess at F11 to get back?
> Some Media players display "Press <ESC> to exit full screen" for a few
> seconds at entry. Would it be a big hassle to program a similar thing
> for F11 in this case?
>
> Have fun,
>
> Roy.
>
> --- On *Fri, 9/10/09, Sven Meier /<sven@...>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Sven Meier <sven@...>
> Subject: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta
> To: jorgan-user@...
> Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 9:17 PM
>
> Hi all,
>
> beta 3 is available for download:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/
>
> - new Ranks now use 'reset all controllers' as first Engaged message
> (old Ranks were already converted in previous betas),
> - Customizer uses 1-16 channel "user" naming
> - Creative and Soundfont imports have an additional option for touch
> sensitivity (not selected by default),
> - on eject both Recorder and Memory view will now use the
> disposition's
> folder to choose a file from.
> - full screen action is now located in the 'file' menu
> - you can now extract memory definitions from old dispositions, see
>
> http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory
>
> Have fun
>
> Sven
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
> Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
> and stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> jOrgan-user@...
> </mc/compose?to=jOrgan-user@...>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> jOrgan-user@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by svenmeier :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Hi Roy,

with the recent jOrgan versions the disposition concept has changed from
a simple file to a project setup.
There are now several other files dependent on the disposition location:
- soundfonts
- LSCP scripts
- memory files
- recorder midi data

When you save a disposition under a different name you have to decide
what to do with these files: should they be duplicated? What if they are
referenced by relative paths, should these be adjusted, made absolute or
left unchanged?

The old "save as" functionality didn't handle these cases at all, so I
removed it.
We might have a similar functionality in future versions again, but
before that we have to think a little more about it.

>I can't seem to find any way to get back to the original single screen
with 4 tabs???

All views in jOrgan can freely be positioned by dragging their tab title:

http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/userinterface:view

In case of console views you can just close the disposition and reopen
it, the consoles should appear as you're used to.

Hope this helps

Sven

Roy Radford wrote:

> Hi, Sven,
>
> I have just downloaded beta 3 and notice that "Save As"
> is still missing. Do you intend to restore it in the final version? I
> use it a great deal as a disposition takes shape, repeatedly Save As
> <filname01>, <filename02> etc so I can always go back if I mess things
> up big time.
>
> I intend to rely heavily on General pistons, so if I ever learn
> more than 10 tunes (!) I'll probably Save As <song title>. If I use
> all 10 memory levels, I may Save As <COP Book 5 pp6_26> or somesuch.
>
> .........................
>
> Talking of messing things up, I have a dispo with 4 consoles. I
> used to have 4 tabs at the top of the screen, and could choose the
> consoles one by one. I accidentally dragged one tab down a bit, and a
> split screen appeared, leaving only three tabs on the original one and
> one on the new screen. I can't seem to find any way to get back to the
> original single screen with 4 tabs???
>
>
> Have fun,
>
> Roy.
>
> --- On *Fri, 9/10/09, Sven Meier /<sven@...>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Sven Meier <sven@...>
> Subject: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta
> To: jorgan-user@...
> Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 9:17 PM
>
> Hi all,
>
> beta 3 is available for download:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/
>
> - new Ranks now use 'reset all controllers' as first Engaged message
> (old Ranks were already converted in previous betas),
> - Customizer uses 1-16 channel "user" naming
> - Creative and Soundfont imports have an additional option for touch
> sensitivity (not selected by default),
> - on eject both Recorder and Memory view will now use the
> disposition's
> folder to choose a file from.
> - full screen action is now located in the 'file' menu
> - you can now extract memory definitions from old dispositions, see
>
> http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory
>
> Have fun
>
> Sven
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
> Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
> and stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> jOrgan-user@...
> </mc/compose?to=jOrgan-user@...>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> jOrgan-user@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by Roy Radford :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Hi, Sven,

            "it now reuses the same extension mechanism, so it's action has to appear in
the file menu from now on."

   Well, knowing absolutely SFA about Java programming I must bow to your greater wisdom on that one, but to a mere mortal like me it does sound a bit like the tail wagging the dog!

       Have fun,

           Roy.

--- On Sat, 10/10/09, Sven Meier <sven@...> wrote:

From: Sven Meier <sven@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta
To: jorgan-user@...
Date: Saturday, 10 October, 2009, 10:25 PM

Hi Roy,

I didn't move the action because of aesthetics:
The file menu is the location where different extensions can insert
their own actions into (Customizer, Importer, ...).
Although the fullscreen feature isn't located in its own extension it
now reuses the same extension mechanism, so it's action has to appear in
the file menu from now on.

>Some Media players display "Press <ESC> to exit full screen" for a few
seconds at entry.
>Would it be a big hassle to program a similar thing for F11 in this case?

I'd love to have such a hint displayed. Definitely something we should
look into for the time after 3.8.

Regards

Sven

Roy Radford wrote:

> Hi again, Sven,
>
> TRIVIA:
>
>    I'm curious as to why you feel the File menu is more
> appropriate than the View menu for a change (Of View?) from normal to
> full screen.
>
> In any case, I've often wondered how many newcomers are panicked
> by the fact that in full screen mode, for obvious reasons, you can't
> see either menu anyway. However would they guess at F11 to get back?
> Some Media players display "Press <ESC> to exit full screen" for a few
> seconds at entry. Would it be a big hassle to program a similar thing
> for F11 in this case?
>
> Have fun,
>
> Roy.
>
> --- On *Fri, 9/10/09, Sven Meier /<sven@...>/* wrote:
>
>
>    From: Sven Meier <sven@...>
>    Subject: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta
>    To: jorgan-user@...
>    Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 9:17 PM
>
>    Hi all,
>
>    beta 3 is available for download:
>
>    http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/
>
>    - new Ranks now use 'reset all controllers' as first Engaged message
>    (old Ranks were already converted in previous betas),
>    - Customizer uses 1-16 channel "user" naming
>    - Creative and Soundfont imports have an additional option for touch
>    sensitivity (not selected by default),
>    - on eject both Recorder and Memory view will now use the
>    disposition's
>    folder to choose a file from.
>    - full screen action is now located in the 'file' menu
>    - you can now extract memory definitions from old dispositions, see
>
>    http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory
>
>    Have fun
>
>    Sven
>
>
>    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
>    is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
>    Jumpstart your
>    developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
>    and stay
>    ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
>    http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
>    _______________________________________________
>    jOrgan-user mailing list
>    jOrgan-user@...
>    </mc/compose?to=jOrgan-user@...>
>    https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> jOrgan-user@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by John Beach :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Regarding File Save in jOrgan 3.8 beta. How about a dropdown window with the option to choose the C:\Program Files\jOrgan whatever version Folder,rather than having to go through My Computer to the folder and make the necessary file name changes? The option to "Save As" is a really handy feature.

John Beach

----- Original Message -----

From: roy.radford42@...

To: jorgan-user@...

Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 12:47 PM

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta

Hi, Lynn,

             I'm not sure I follow all that in detail, but your first option sounds OK to me. Is there really a problem with that?

     Have fun,

         Roy.

--- On Sat, 10/10/09, Lynn Walls <lwalls@...> wrote:

From: Lynn Walls <lwalls@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta
To: jorgan-user@...
Date: Saturday, 10 October, 2009, 2:13 PM

I can see some complications that would have to be worked out if the
"Save As" function is restored. One of them would be how to deal with
the ".memory" file, which is now a separate file and no longer included
in the .disposition file.

So if you would do a Save As to another file name, should the memory
file be copied and saved under that same new name?

If so, then you are going to have to have a separate .memory file
created for every .disposition saved-as another name. Then Sven would
have to "hard-link" the name of the corresponding .memory file to the
specific .disposition file. In this case Sven should probably get rid
of the new Storage property in the Memory element so that the user
cannot arbitrarily link a disposition to a .memory file which has not
been specifically built to match that disposition.

If there is NOT to be a new, separate .memory file created when you do a
Save As", then suppose what you changed something structural in the
disposition before you saved it with Save As, like the Ranks or Stops
structure. Now the disposition structure under the saved-as name is no
longer coordinated with what has been previously saved in the .memory
file. So, do you now have Sven ALTER the .memory file referenced by the
Storage Property of the Memory element to be synchronized with the new
Rank and Stop structure in the saved-as file? If so, then that .memory
file would now no longer match the ORIGINAL .disposition file that still
exists under the original name and still references that same .memory
file!!!!

What do you think Sven should do to resolve this dilemma, Roy?

CLW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roy Radford wrote:
> I have just downloaded beta 3 and notice that "Save As" is
> still missing. Do you intend to restore it in the final version? I use
> it a great deal as a disposition takes shape, repeatedly Save As
> <filname01>, <filename02> etc so I can always go back if I mess things
> up big time.
>
> I intend to rely heavily on General pistons, so if I ever learn more
> than 10 tunes (!) I'll probably Save As <song title>. If I use all 10
> memory levels, I may Save As <COP Book 5 pp6_26> or somesuch.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference

_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by amvjl :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Hi Swen,

jOrgan 3.8.3 allows multiple MEMORY elements :
Is it correct ?

In this case :

A/ How to select a MEMORY element in the Memory view ?

B/ In the Storage zone of the MEMORY

My tests :
Upgrading my 2 MEMORY elements Hammond 3.6.1 to 3.6.8
I have a .memory file (say H.memory) which contains the complete data
corresponding to these 2 elements.

Using this H.memory in the 'Storage' zone, I have a 'Problems' message
saying that the file cannot be loaded.
So I have splitted H.memory in H1.memory and H2.memory with the data of each
MEMORY element and use them in the corresponding 'Storage' zones.
I have no more 'Problems' messages displayed.
But jOrgan is always using the last .memory file entered in 'Storage' zone
for the 2 MEMORY elements.
So I never have H1 and H2 displayed but twice either H1 or H2.
NB : H1 or H2 are very well translated, that's very nice !

Maybe you are working on this subject for the 3.8 final and then please
forget this post.

Best regards
Jacques

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sven Meier" <sven@...>
To: <jorgan-user@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta

> Hi Roy,
>
> with the recent jOrgan versions the disposition concept has changed from
> a simple file to a project setup.
> There are now several other files dependent on the disposition location:
> - soundfonts
> - LSCP scripts
> - memory files
> - recorder midi data
>
> When you save a disposition under a different name you have to decide
> what to do with these files: should they be duplicated? What if they are
> referenced by relative paths, should these be adjusted, made absolute or
> left unchanged?
>
> The old "save as" functionality didn't handle these cases at all, so I
> removed it.
> We might have a similar functionality in future versions again, but
> before that we have to think a little more about it.
>
> >I can't seem to find any way to get back to the original single screen
> with 4 tabs???
>
> All views in jOrgan can freely be positioned by dragging their tab title:
>
> http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/userinterface:view
>
> In case of console views you can just close the disposition and reopen
> it, the consoles should appear as you're used to.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Sven
>
>
>
> Roy Radford wrote:
>> Hi, Sven,
>>
>> I have just downloaded beta 3 and notice that "Save As"
>> is still missing. Do you intend to restore it in the final version? I
>> use it a great deal as a disposition takes shape, repeatedly Save As
>> <filname01>, <filename02> etc so I can always go back if I mess things
>> up big time.
>>
>> I intend to rely heavily on General pistons, so if I ever learn
>> more than 10 tunes (!) I'll probably Save As <song title>. If I use
>> all 10 memory levels, I may Save As <COP Book 5 pp6_26> or somesuch.
>>
>> .........................
>>
>> Talking of messing things up, I have a dispo with 4 consoles. I
>> used to have 4 tabs at the top of the screen, and could choose the
>> consoles one by one. I accidentally dragged one tab down a bit, and a
>> split screen appeared, leaving only three tabs on the original one and
>> one on the new screen. I can't seem to find any way to get back to the
>> original single screen with 4 tabs???
>>
>>
>> Have fun,
>>
>> Roy.
>>
>> --- On *Fri, 9/10/09, Sven Meier /<sven@...>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Sven Meier <sven@...>
>> Subject: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta
>> To: jorgan-user@...
>> Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 9:17 PM
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> beta 3 is available for download:
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jorgan/files/
>>
>> - new Ranks now use 'reset all controllers' as first Engaged message
>> (old Ranks were already converted in previous betas),
>> - Customizer uses 1-16 channel "user" naming
>> - Creative and Soundfont imports have an additional option for touch
>> sensitivity (not selected by default),
>> - on eject both Recorder and Memory view will now use the
>> disposition's
>> folder to choose a file from.
>> - full screen action is now located in the 'file' menu
>> - you can now extract memory definitions from old dispositions, see
>>
>> http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/extension:memory
>>
>> Have fun
>>
>> Sven
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year.
>> Jumpstart your
>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market
>> and stay
>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
>> _______________________________________________
>> jOrgan-user mailing list
>> jOrgan-user@...
>> </mc/compose?to=jOrgan-user@...>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> jOrgan-user mailing list
>> jOrgan-user@...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> jOrgan-user@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: Java Micro Tuning Organ

by John Beach :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Has anyone on this forum used the software at this link? http://www.geocities.com/jeroendonkers/JMTOrgan/#download

There are several tunings available using this software and I was curious to know if anyone had tried using it in conjunction with jOrgan, how feasible it is and whether the results are worth having it? I put in a Google search for Java Organ and this was one of the links that resulted. Thanks.

John Beach

Re: Java Micro Tuning Organ

by pcstratman :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

I have used it. It has it's own "stop panel" with which you can select individual banks of a soundfont. I use jOrgan as a relay to get rid of touch sensitivity in the keyboards, and make a 16' coupler for pedal.

It's great for experimenting with a temperament. I don't consider it a performance instrument.

Paul

From: John Beach <jbeach2646@...>
To: jorgan-user@...
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 6:18:07 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Java Micro Tuning Organ

Has anyone on this forum used the software at this link? http://www.geocities.com/jeroendonkers/JMTOrgan/#download

John Beach

Re: Java Micro Tuning Organ

by John Beach :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Thanks, Paul.

John

----- Original Message -----

From: pcstratman@...

To: jorgan-user@...

Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:58 AM

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Java Micro Tuning Organ

I have used it. It has it's own "stop panel" with which you can select individual banks of a soundfont. I use jOrgan as a relay to get rid of touch sensitivity in the keyboards, and make a 16' coupler for pedal.

It's great for experimenting with a temperament. I don't consider it a performance instrument.

Paul

From: John Beach <jbeach2646@...>
To: jorgan-user@...
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 6:18:07 AM
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] Java Micro Tuning Organ

Has anyone on this forum used the software at this link? http://www.geocities.com/jeroendonkers/JMTOrgan/#download

There are several tunings available using this software and I was curious to know if anyone had tried using it in conjunction with jOrgan, how feasible it is and whether the results are worth having it? I put in a Google search for Java Organ and this was one of the links that resulted. Thanks.

John Beach

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference

_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

Re: jOrgan 3.8 third beta

by greenfox Rick :: Rate this Message:

Reply to Author | View Threaded | Show Only this Message

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Is it possible, with jOrgan closed, to copy and re-name a disposition file?
What will happen when you open this re-named disposition the first time?
This would have the same effect as "Save As" wouldn't it?

Does v3.8 still have the Roll-Back History function where you are able to undo steps back to a previous point of your disposition?

Regards
Rick

John Beach wrote:

Regarding File Save in jOrgan 3.8 beta. How about a dropdown window with the option to choose the C:\Program Files\jOrgan whatever version Folder,rather than having to go through My Computer to the folder and make the necessary file name changes?     The option to "Save As" is a really handy feature.

John Beach

----- Original Message -----

From: roy.radford42@...

To: jorgan-user@...

Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 12:47 PM

Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta

Hi, Lynn,

             I'm not sure I follow all that in detail, but your first option sounds OK to me. Is there really a problem with that?

     Have fun,

         Roy.

--- On Sat, 10/10/09, Lynn Walls <lwalls@...> wrote:

From: Lynn Walls <lwalls@...>
Subject: Re: [jOrgan-user] jOrgan 3.8 third beta
To: jorgan-user@...
Date: Saturday, 10 October, 2009, 2:13 PM

I can see some complications that would have to be worked out if the
"Save As" function is restored. One of them would be how to deal with
the ".memory" file, which is now a separate file and no longer included
in the .disposition file.

So if you would do a Save As to another file name, should the memory
file be copied and saved under that same new name?

If so, then you are going to have to have a separate .memory file
created for every .disposition saved-as another name. Then Sven would
have to "hard-link" the name of the corresponding .memory file to the
specific .disposition file. In this case Sven should probably get rid
of the new Storage property in the Memory element so that the user
cannot arbitrarily link a disposition to a .memory file which has not
been specifically built to match that disposition.

If there is NOT to be a new, separate .memory file created when you do a
Save As", then suppose what you changed something structural in the
disposition before you saved it with Save As, like the Ranks or Stops
structure. Now the disposition structure under the saved-as name is no
longer coordinated with what has been previously saved in the .memory
file. So, do you now have Sven ALTER the .memory file referenced by the
Storage Property of the Memory element to be synchronized with the new
Rank and Stop structure in the saved-as file? If so, then that .memory
file would now no longer match the ORIGINAL .disposition file that still
exists under the original name and still references that same .memory
file!!!!

What do you think Sven should do to resolve this dilemma, Roy?

CLW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roy Radford wrote:
> I have just downloaded beta 3 and notice that "Save As" is
> still missing. Do you intend to restore it in the final version? I use
> it a great deal as a disposition takes shape, repeatedly Save As
> <filname01>, <filename02> etc so I can always go back if I mess things
> up big time.
>
> I intend to rely heavily on General pistons, so if I ever learn more
> than 10 tunes (!) I'll probably Save As <song title>. If I use all 10
> memory levels, I may Save As <COP Book 5 pp6_26> or somesuch.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference

_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay 
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
  

< Prev | 1 - 2 | Next >