kigo

hi,

maybe you still remember Kigo, to Go game. Altough there are still a number of
features to implement, it is in pretty good shape right now. I did a lot of
bug hunting lately and think that it is now in a release-worthy state.  The
question is how to do that. I am currently considering extragear because it
has a runtime dependency (not during compile time) on GnuGo (or compatible Go
engines), an 'issue' that other kdegames don't have. However, if that's not a
showstopper to move into kdegames directly, I'd prefer the latter.

If you test the app you'll notice that I shamelessly borrowed some artwork
from KReversi, so if anybody wants to help out here I'd really appreciate
that. At the moment I am trying to get some documentation shaped up and I'm
going to move it to kdereview in the next few days. For now I'd like to have
your opinions on how to release it exactly.

The last remaining question that I have for now is if it is possible to have a
site on games.kde.org for extragear games too? Creating a dedicated website
would be simply to much from my POV.

Ah yes, you can find Kigo under playground/games/kigo, of course :-)
--
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Sascha Peilicke
http://saschpe.wordpress.com


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[Arturo Silva]

Hello!  I'm new here so don't remember Kigo, but am equally excited in
seeing another new KDE game nonetheless. :)

I can test and perhaps take a look at the artwork.  But given the
similarity of Reversi and Go pieces, it might be tricky to set them
apart (and maybe even unnecessary, since using the same pieces could
conceivably offer consistency between both applications.
Nevertheless, maybe upon actual gameplay I could think of something.
^^

Thanks for your hard work, and good luck during the review process.  ^__^


--Arturo
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On Tuesday 20 October 2009 20:46:54 Arturo Silva wrote:
> Hello!  I'm new here so don't remember Kigo, but am equally excited in
> seeing another new KDE game nonetheless. :)
>
> I can test and perhaps take a look at the artwork.  But given the
> similarity of Reversi and Go pieces, it might be tricky to set them
> apart (and maybe even unnecessary, since using the same pieces could
> conceivably offer consistency between both applications.
> Nevertheless, maybe upon actual gameplay I could think of something.
> ^^
Yep, the Go/Reversi piece look fine to me, but it would be great to have some
board background that resembles a traditional Go board game (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game) for reference). Maybe I should add some
sound effect for placed stones too :-)

> Thanks for your hard work, and good luck during the review process.  ^__^
Thanks for that!
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[Arturo Silva]

Speaking of similar pieces, I know Abalone often has similar black and
white game pieces as well (albeit circular instead of just
oval-shaped).  I wonder if there's been an effort to resurrect
Kenolaba, since I don't see it in SVN...  :)
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[Arturo Silva]

======================================
Sascha Peilicke wrote:
======================================
>
> Yep, the Go/Reversi piece look fine to me, but it would be great to have some
> board background that resembles a traditional Go board game (see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game) for reference). Maybe I should add some
> sound effect for placed stones too :-)
>

Ah!  I see now!
You got it!  I'll see what we can do, SVG-wise, for the board/background. :D

And yes, some very subtle sound effects would add a nice layer of
polish for sure -- the KDiamond ones should be very useful to test
with until you can find something with the perfect "clack" sound.  :)

[Speaking of beautiful chip sounds, it's a shame shōgi sounds like a
pain to program for, otherwise a KShogi would be rather exciting too.]


--Arturo
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On Martes 20 Octubre 2009 14:05:51 Arturo Silva escribió:

> ======================================
> Sascha Peilicke wrote:
> ======================================
>
> > Yep, the Go/Reversi piece look fine to me, but it would be great to have
> > some board background that resembles a traditional Go board game (see
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game) for reference). Maybe I should add
> > some sound effect for placed stones too :-)
>
> Ah!  I see now!
> You got it!  I'll see what we can do, SVG-wise, for the board/background.
>  :D
>
> And yes, some very subtle sound effects would add a nice layer of
> polish for sure -- the KDiamond ones should be very useful to test
> with until you can find something with the perfect "clack" sound.  :)
>
> [Speaking of beautiful chip sounds, it's a shame shōgi sounds like a
> pain to program for, otherwise a KShogi would be rather exciting too.]
>
>
> --Arturo

Hi,

Kaya ( http://pcapriotti.github.com/kaya/ ) is a KDE game that already
supports Chess and Shogi. And it's SVG themeable.


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[Arturo Silva]

David Palacio wrote:
>
> Kaya ( http://pcapriotti.github.com/kaya/ ) is a KDE game that already
> supports Chess and Shogi. And it's SVG themeable.
>

Ah!  I think I'm in heaven!!  8D

It's strange that it's hosted elsewhere, but perhaps that will change
over time.  Okay, I know what else to look at later!  :)

[the list grows....] ^^
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Arturo Silva wrote:
> And yes, some very subtle sound effects would add a nice layer of
> polish for sure -- the KDiamond ones should be very useful to test
> with until you can find something with the perfect "clack" sound.  :)

Sigh. Anyone have a foley studio they can send me? :-) I'd love to help
here (I have a genuine Go board, as well as several jigsaws for palapeli
sounds also), but I don't have decent sound recording equipment.
Certainly not to get good quality sounds of the sort needed for these games.

--
Matthew
Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies.
--
So, an astrophysicist, a quantum physicist, and an astrologer walk into
a bar...

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[Dmitry Suzdalev-2]

Hi!

On Tuesday 20 October 2009 22:20:09 Sascha Peilicke wrote:
> The
> question is how to do that. I am currently considering extragear because
>  it  has a runtime dependency (not during compile time) on GnuGo (or
>  compatible Go engines), an 'issue' that other kdegames don't have.
>  However, if that's not a showstopper to move into kdegames directly, I'd
>  prefer the latter.
I don't know of any restrictions that can prevent game with additional runtime
deps from entering kdegames. If I'm wrong, someone correct me :)

To me it's more interesting to know whether Kigo handles GnuGo absence
gracefully or not. I.e. I would imagine some pretty msg box or even some kind
of "welcome screen" on the main widget telling user to install GnuGo to be
able to play (if it's absent).

I didn't look at the game itself yet, sorry.

Go, KiGo, go! :)

Cheers,
Dmitry.

PS. Having similar loooking chips in kreversi and kigo seems like a nice idea
to me too.
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[Dmitry Suzdalev-2]

Hi!

On Tuesday 20 October 2009 22:20:09 Sascha Peilicke wrote:
> The
> question is how to do that. I am currently considering extragear because
>  it  has a runtime dependency (not during compile time) on GnuGo (or
>  compatible Go engines), an 'issue' that other kdegames don't have.
>  However, if that's not a showstopper to move into kdegames directly, I'd
>  prefer the latter.
I don't know of any restrictions that can prevent game with additional runtime
deps from entering kdegames. If I'm wrong, someone correct me :)

To me it's more interesting to know whether Kigo handles GnuGo absence
gracefully or not. I.e. I would imagine some pretty msg box or even some kind
of "welcome screen" on the main widget telling user to install GnuGo to be
able to play (if it's absent).

I didn't look at the game itself yet, sorry.

Go, KiGo, go! :)

Cheers,
Dmitry.

PS. Having similar loooking chips in kreversi and kigo seems like a nice idea
to me too.
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[Albert Astals Cid-2]

A Dimarts, 20 d'octubre de 2009, Sascha Peilicke va escriure:

> hi,
>
> maybe you still remember Kigo, to Go game. Altough there are still a number
>  of features to implement, it is in pretty good shape right now. I did a
>  lot of bug hunting lately and think that it is now in a release-worthy
>  state.  The question is how to do that. I am currently considering
>  extragear because it has a runtime dependency (not during compile time) on
>  GnuGo (or compatible Go engines), an 'issue' that other kdegames don't
>  have. However, if that's not a showstopper to move into kdegames directly,
>  I'd prefer the latter.

It's not an issue, you just need to handle the case that gnugo is not
installed without crashing and suggest the user to install it.

>
> If you test the app you'll notice that I shamelessly borrowed some artwork
> from KReversi, so if anybody wants to help out here I'd really appreciate
> that. At the moment I am trying to get some documentation shaped up and I'm
> going to move it to kdereview in the next few days. For now I'd like to
>  have your opinions on how to release it exactly.
>
> The last remaining question that I have for now is if it is possible to
>  have a site on games.kde.org for extragear games too? Creating a dedicated
>  website would be simply to much from my POV.
>
> Ah yes, you can find Kigo under playground/games/kigo, of course :-)
>

If you want to move to kdegames or extragear you should move to kdereview.
Read http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/SVN_Guidelines for more info on the life
cycle of a program. Take into account KDE 4.4 feature freeze is in a few days
(see techbase schedules)

Albert
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[Arturo Silva]

Well, I'm happy to report that I managed to successfully build,
install and play Kigo!  ^^
It looks good, but I probably neglected to mention before that I've
never played Go before, so I got my rear handed by the computer quite
easily. ^^;

In any event, the KReversi black and white stones do work out nicely
here.  I miss the flipping effects, but they don't belong here because
you never flip anything in this game.  However, when capturing a
piece, I wonder if you can add a quick shrinking animation to the
piece that gets captured, just for an extra dab of eyecandy.  ^^

And yes, the background is definitely from KReversi, and the board is
a little cramped.  I'll see what I can do to spruce it up over the
next few days -- my hope is to add the stone cups and timer on the
sides for purposes of eyecandy (although the timer could be repurposed
later on to be interactive.  :)


======================================
Matthew Woehlke wrote
======================================
> Sigh. Anyone have a foley studio they can send me? :-) I'd love to help
> here (I have a genuine Go board, as well as several jigsaws for palapeli
> sounds also), but I don't have decent sound recording equipment.
> Certainly not to get good quality sounds of the sort needed for these games.

Funny, I thought of the same thing at one point too.  :P
I figured you could use something like audacity to remove white noise
and smooth out the sound, but in general I figure it really takes a
sound guy to make some quality audio.  Or at least a good mic and a
lot of rugs and drapes.  ;)

Is there some sound people that can help?  Anything need to be purchased?  :D


======================================
Dmitry Suzdalev wrote
======================================
> To me it's more interesting to know whether Kigo handles GnuGo absence
> gracefully or not. I.e. I would imagine some pretty msg box or even some kind
> of "welcome screen" on the main widget telling user to install GnuGo to be
> able to play (if it's absent).

Yep, I can confirm that, without gnugo, the game politely informs the
player that there is no Go engine, and that they should kindly forage
for one elsewhere.  hehe.  :D

This reminds me a little of the old KDE3 Knights game, which would
also kindly inform the user that there is no chess program installed,
although back then I wondered why it simply wasn't included as a
dependency.  :)


--Arturo
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On Tuesday 20 October 2009 23:58:30 Matthew Woehlke wrote:

> Arturo Silva wrote:
> > And yes, some very subtle sound effects would add a nice layer of
> > polish for sure -- the KDiamond ones should be very useful to test
> > with until you can find something with the perfect "clack" sound.  :)
>
> Sigh. Anyone have a foley studio they can send me? :-) I'd love to help
> here (I have a genuine Go board, as well as several jigsaws for palapeli
> sounds also), but I don't have decent sound recording equipment.
> Certainly not to get good quality sounds of the sort needed for these
>  games.
>

Does someone know of a free sound library/collection? Maybe there's something

similar to openclipart.org available in the web?
--
Sascha Peilicke
http://saschpe.wordpress.com


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> > To me it's more interesting to know whether Kigo handles GnuGo absence

> > gracefully or not. I.e. I would imagine some pretty msg box or even some
> > kind of "welcome screen" on the main widget telling user to install GnuGo
> > to be able to play (if it's absent).
>
> Yep, I can confirm that, without gnugo, the game politely informs the
> player that there is no Go engine, and that they should kindly forage
> for one elsewhere.  hehe.  :D
>
> This reminds me a little of the old KDE3 Knights game, which would
> also kindly inform the user that there is no chess program installed,
> although back then I wondered why it simply wasn't included as a
> dependency.  :)

Hehe, I think this is the most one can do from the application side, the rest

is distro-stuff. Kigo is also able to tell you if the Go engine you provide is
compatible or not.
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> > [...]
>
> It's not an issue, you just need to handle the case that gnugo is not
> installed without crashing and suggest the user to install it.
It's already implemented like that. If that's enough, than I'd love to see it
become part of kdegames.
 
> If you want to move to kdegames or extragear you should move to kdereview.
> Read http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/SVN_Guidelines for more info on the
>  life cycle of a program. Take into account KDE 4.4 feature freeze is in a
>  few days (see techbase schedules)
Yep, I wanted to do that pretty soon.
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Dmitry Suzdalev пишет:
> PS. Having similar loooking chips in kreversi and kigo seems like a nice idea
> to me too.
Also, there will be new backgammon(playground/games/backgammon) with
similar looking chips as well :D

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On Wednesday 21 October 2009 00:07:17 Dmitry Suzdalev wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On Tuesday 20 October 2009 22:20:09 Sascha Peilicke wrote:
> > The
> > question is how to do that. I am currently considering extragear because
> >  it  has a runtime dependency (not during compile time) on GnuGo (or
> >  compatible Go engines), an 'issue' that other kdegames don't have.
> >  However, if that's not a showstopper to move into kdegames directly, I'd
> >  prefer the latter.

Yay for kigo!


> PS. Having similar loooking chips in kreversi and kigo seems like a nice
>  idea to me too.

This seems to me as a bad idea.  The reason for that is that Reversi uses flat
chips with to different colors on each side (white and black), while Go uses
so called "stones" which are oval in shape if you look at them from the side.

A high-quality set of stones have the black stones made of a matte slate and
the white stones made of clamshell and have a distinct pattern. That's what I
suggest to try to imitate.  For more info, see  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_equipment

        -Inge
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[Arturo Silva]

===============================
Sascha Peilicke wrote
===============================
>
> Does someone know of a free sound library/collection? Maybe there's something
> similar to openclipart.org available in the web?

Well there is of course Wikimedia:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

And several other public doman or CC sound collections scattered
throughout the web:

http://www.soundsnap.com/
http://www.pdsounds.org/
http://www.freesound.org/

But finding the right sound can definitely be a needle-in-the-haystack
proposition, as we're talking about a heck of a lot of sound.  :)


===============================
Alexander Smirnov wrote
===============================
>
> Also, there will be new backgammon(playground/games/backgammon) with
> similar looking chips as well :D

Awesome, KBackgammon returns! ^___^

[note: I'm awful with backgammon as well, but just happy to see nearly
all the KDE3 games reemerge]
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[Arturo Silva]

================================
Inge Wallin
================================

> This seems to me as a bad idea.  The reason for that is that Reversi uses flat
> chips with to different colors on each side (white and black), while Go uses
> so called "stones" which are oval in shape if you look at them from the side.

> A high-quality set of stones have the black stones made of a matte slate and
> the white stones made of clamshell and have a distinct pattern. That's what I
> suggest to try to imitate.  For more info, see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_equipment

We are talkinga bout a top-down view, however, so the difference
between the unflipped Reversi chips and the more rounded Go ones is
superficial at best from that angle.  Not to mention that in the
picture provided I can't really see the clamshell detail on the white
chips.

But we can try to do something about it... Certainly the slate stones
could use a matte-job.
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On Wednesday 21 October 2009 17:27:43 Arturo Silva wrote:

> ================================
> Inge Wallin
> ================================
>
> > This seems to me as a bad idea.  The reason for that is that Reversi uses
> > flat chips with to different colors on each side (white and black), while
> > Go uses so called "stones" which are oval in shape if you look at them
> > from the side.
> >
> > A high-quality set of stones have the black stones made of a matte slate
> > and the white stones made of clamshell and have a distinct pattern.
> > That's what I suggest to try to imitate.  For more info, see
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_equipment
>
> We are talkinga bout a top-down view, however, so the difference
> between the unflipped Reversi chips and the more rounded Go ones is
> superficial at best from that angle.  Not to mention that in the
> picture provided I can't really see the clamshell detail on the white
> chips.
>
> But we can try to do something about it... Certainly the slate stones
> could use a matte-job.

Sounds good. I wonder if we should use the egypt theme background (because it

looks great) or something like a bamboo mat or a more realistic looking wooden
table.
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