launchd question

[huntc]

Hi there,

I've got a problematic launchd plist and I was wondering if someone  
could help. I'm trying to execute osascript -e <command> via launchd  
and it reports an error (an abort) in the system.log file. More  
specifically:

launchd[4108]: com.classactionpl.restartvision: exited abnormally:  
Abort trap

Here's the plist:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://
www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
        <key>Debug</key>
        <true/>
        <key>Label</key>
        <string>com.classactionpl.restartvision</string>
        <key>OnDemand</key>
        <true/>
        <key>ProgramArguments</key>
        <array>
                <string>osascript</string>
                <string>-e</string>
                <string>tell application "World" to quit</string>
        </array>
        <key>StartCalendarInterval</key>
        <dict>
                <key>Hour</key>
                <integer>0</integer>
                <key>Minute</key>
                <integer>0</integer>
        </dict>
</dict>
</plist>

Debug etc. doesn't yield more info.

Any ideas?

Cheers,
-C
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[huntc]

On 28/02/2007, at 8:22 AM, Andrew Oliver wrote:

> You almost certainly need to quote the " symbols in your command:
>
>
>> <string>tell application \"World\" to quit</string>
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately it makes no diff. In fact I'm  
surprised that you'd have to escape the quotes...

Anyhow could it be that I need to run it for a specific user? I've  
loaded it from the LaunchAgents directory of a user and I thought it  
would thus execute under that same user... is that not the case? A  
different user would definitely cause a problem given that the AS has  
to be connected to the application user's display to work.

What'd think?

Cheers,
-C
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[Dan Shoop]

At 7:45 AM +1100 2/28/07, Christopher Hunt wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>I've got a problematic launchd plist and I was wondering if someone
>could help. I'm trying to execute osascript -e <command> via launchd
>and it reports an error (an abort) in the system.log file. More
>specifically:

That's probably a rather bad idea in general. launchd is BSD
environment oriented. OSA is more Carbon and Cocoa. I'm not sure if
you can presume osascript will work from launchd.

But if it's a mater of creating good plists for launchd, have you seen Lingon?

--

-dhan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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questions." -- Claude Levi-Strauss

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Scott Ribe]

> I'm not sure if
> you can presume osascript will work from launchd.

Ooh yes, you reminded me. AppleEvents requires libraries that are either not
available until a user is logged in, or only available to root before login.
I forget which, because I learned that while building an obsolete product
that I haven't touched in ages. Sorry.

Anyway, Dan's comment is on point: there may be issues with using osascript
when a user is not logged in.

--
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[huntc]

Firstly thanks for all of the replies and sorry that I've been away  
to not answer them sooner. My responses:

On 28/02/2007, at 11:10 AM, Scott Ribe wrote:

>> I'm not sure if
>> you can presume osascript will work from launchd.
Works from cron though so I guessed that it should work from launchd.  
I originally had my osascript command as a cron job and thought I'd  
do the right thing and migrate to launchd.

>
> Ooh yes, you reminded me. AppleEvents requires libraries that are  
> either not
> available until a user is logged in,
My user is logged in.

> or only available to root before login.
> I forget which, because I learned that while building an obsolete  
> product
> that I haven't touched in ages. Sorry.
That's ok - I should be ok though as my user is logged in.

>
> Anyway, Dan's comment is on point: there may be issues with using  
> osascript
> when a user is not logged in.
Not in my case.

> That's probably a rather bad idea in general. launchd is BSD  
> environment oriented. OSA is more Carbon and Cocoa. I'm not sure if  
> you can presume osascript will work from launchd.
I have seen some other sample launchd configurations via Google that  
invoke osascript with a script file (as opposed to the -e immediate  
mode). So, I presume that osascript should work well.

>
> But if it's a mater of creating good plists for launchd, have you  
> seen Lingon?
Yes, a beautiful tool. I am using it.

> It could be a problem if you're trying to run it as a different  
> user than is currently logged in at the GUI.. An alternative would  
> be to run it as root - root can attach to the UIServer, no matter  
> who's logged in.
I might try running it as root for diagnostic purposes as I don't  
think it is good to do so normally.

I'll dig around more anyhow - unless there are more ideas?

Cheers,
-C
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[Axel Luttgens]

On 27/02/07 21:45, Christopher Hunt wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I've got a problematic launchd plist and I was wondering if someone  
> could help. I'm trying to execute osascript -e <command> via launchd  
> and it reports an error (an abort) in the system.log file. More  
> specifically:
>
> launchd[4108]: com.classactionpl.restartvision: exited abnormally:  
> Abort trap
>
> Here's the plist:
>
> [...]
>     <key>OnDemand</key>
>     <true/>

(anecdotical)
This is the default.
But from your description in subsequent posts, you don't seem to need an
on-demand behavior.
I would thus set this one to false.

>     <key>ProgramArguments</key>
>     <array>
>         <string>osascript</string>


Wouldn't a full path (ie /usr/bin/osascript) be needed here?

>         <string>-e</string>
>         <string>tell application "World" to quit</string>
>     </array>
> [...]
>
> Debug etc. doesn't yield more info.
>
> Any ideas?


Well, frankly, I would stay with cron... ;-)
Since 10.4 and up to 10.4.8, I have been unable to *reliably* use
launchd for tasks needing to be launched at regular intervals; it
somehow works, if one may allow some timing inacurracies, but sometimes
with big surprises.

HTH,
Axel
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[huntc]

I've just made a discovery that I think is worth sharing.

Firstly I have a user that can administer the computer (user A) and  
one that can't (user B). If I issue a launchctl start from the  
command line for user A then the osascript -e <command> works! Of  
course this is not the case for user B.

However if I perform a "launchd bash", load the plists and the  
perform the launchctl start (all for user B)s then all is well!

I'm confused... if things work under launchd bash then why shouldn't  
they outside of that shell?

Cheers,
-C

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[huntc]

Latest update: I think that my problem has something to do with  
either the sequence of when Finder is launched and/or whether Finder  
is even present. I didn't think it important to mention that the user  
B account is also a kiosk style of account i.e. a custom application  
is launched in place of Finder. Perhaps this is causing the problem...

Oh well... I've had to resort back to cron as my scheduled osascript  
command worked just fine there. I would like to get launchd working  
for me though so please keep coming through with any other ideas.

Cheers,
-C

On 28/02/2007, at 8:26 PM, Christopher Hunt wrote:

> I've just made a discovery that I think is worth sharing.
>
> Firstly I have a user that can administer the computer (user A) and  
> one that can't (user B). If I issue a launchctl start from the  
> command line for user A then the osascript -e <command> works! Of  
> course this is not the case for user B.
>
> However if I perform a "launchd bash", load the plists and the  
> perform the launchctl start (all for user B)s then all is well!
>
> I'm confused... if things work under launchd bash then why  
> shouldn't they outside of that shell?

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[Axel Luttgens]

On 28/02/07 10:26, Christopher Hunt wrote:

> I've just made a discovery that I think is worth sharing.
>
> Firstly I have a user that can administer the computer (user A) and  
> one that can't (user B). If I issue a launchctl start from the  
> command line for user A


Without sudo? Is user A the root user?

> then the osascript -e <command> works! Of  course this is not the case
> for user B.
>
> However if I perform a "launchd bash", load the plists and the  
> perform the launchctl start (all for user B)s then all is well!
>
> I'm confused... if things work under launchd bash then why shouldn't  
> they outside of that shell?


With "launchd bash", you have created a *second* instance of launchd,
running with your user privileges.
By using launchctl (without sudo), you are then implicitely targeting
that second instance, upon which you have full control (loading
services, starting services...).

HTH,
Axel
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[huntc]

Really, the last update this time. :-)

I managed to re-direct the output of stderr to a file via launchd  
(very option that one):

2007-02-28 22:38:10.503 osascript[9069] CFLog (0): CFMessagePort:  
bootstrap_register(): failed 1100 (0x44c), port = 0x2103, name =  
'Processes-0.35782657'
See /usr/include/servers/bootstrap_defs.h for the error codes.
2007-02-28 22:38:10.511 osascript[9069] CFLog (99):  
CFMessagePortCreateLocal(): failed to name Mach port  
(Processes-0.35782657)
CFMessagePortCreateLocal failed (name = Processes-0.35782657 error = 0)

The error code 1100 equates to BOOTSTRAP_NOT_PRIVILEGED. This is all  
that I could find on this error:

***
A deactivated bootstrap namespace allows you to look up services, but  
it does not allow you to register new services. Any attempt to  
register a service in a deactivate namespace will fail with an error  
BOOTSTRAP_NOT_PRIVILEGED (1100). Similarly, any high-level wrapper  
that registers a service will fail. For example,  
CFMessagePortCreateLocal will print an error message and return NULL  
if you call it after your namespace has been deactivated.
***

Any ideas?

Cheers,
-C

On 28/02/2007, at 10:04 PM, Christopher Hunt wrote:

> Latest update: I think that my problem has something to do with  
> either the sequence of when Finder is launched and/or whether  
> Finder is even present. I didn't think it important to mention that  
> the user B account is also a kiosk style of account i.e. a custom  
> application is launched in place of Finder. Perhaps this is causing  
> the problem...
>
> Oh well... I've had to resort back to cron as my scheduled  
> osascript command worked just fine there. I would like to get  
> launchd working for me though so please keep coming through with  
> any other ideas.
>
> Cheers,
> -C
>
> On 28/02/2007, at 8:26 PM, Christopher Hunt wrote:
>
>> I've just made a discovery that I think is worth sharing.
>>
>> Firstly I have a user that can administer the computer (user A)  
>> and one that can't (user B). If I issue a launchctl start from the  
>> command line for user A then the osascript -e <command> works! Of  
>> course this is not the case for user B.
>>
>> However if I perform a "launchd bash", load the plists and the  
>> perform the launchctl start (all for user B)s then all is well!
>>
>> I'm confused... if things work under launchd bash then why  
>> shouldn't they outside of that shell?

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[Axel Luttgens]

On 28/02/07 13:32, Christopher Hunt wrote:

> Really, the last update this time. :-)
>
> I managed to re-direct the output of stderr to a file via launchd  
> (very option that one):
>
> 2007-02-28 22:38:10.503 osascript[9069] CFLog (0): CFMessagePort:  
> bootstrap_register(): failed 1100 (0x44c), port = 0x2103, name =  
> 'Processes-0.35782657'
> See /usr/include/servers/bootstrap_defs.h for the error codes.
> 2007-02-28 22:38:10.511 osascript[9069] CFLog (99):  
> CFMessagePortCreateLocal(): failed to name Mach port  
> (Processes-0.35782657)
> CFMessagePortCreateLocal failed (name = Processes-0.35782657 error = 0)
>
> The error code 1100 equates to BOOTSTRAP_NOT_PRIVILEGED. This is all  
> that I could find on this error:
>
> ***
> A deactivated bootstrap namespace allows you to look up services, but  
> it does not allow you to register new services. Any attempt to  
> register a service in a deactivate namespace will fail with an error  
> BOOTSTRAP_NOT_PRIVILEGED (1100). Similarly, any high-level wrapper  
> that registers a service will fail. For example,  
> CFMessagePortCreateLocal will print an error message and return NULL  
> if you call it after your namespace has been deactivated.
> ***
>
> Any ideas?

Where have you saved the plist?
In /S/L/LaunchDaemons?
In /L/LaunchDaemons?
Or in ~/L/LaunchDaemons, where ~ denotes the home directory of the user
who is running application "World" (the one to be quit at 00:00)?

If the latter, the plist should automatically be read and loaded when
the user logs in, within the correct context.

HTH,
Axel

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[Axel Luttgens]

On 28/02/07 14:03, Axel Luttgens wrote:

> [...]
>
>>  
>
>
> Where have you saved the plist?
> In /S/L/LaunchDaemons?
> In /L/LaunchDaemons?
> Or in ~/L/LaunchDaemons, where ~ denotes the home directory of the
> user who is running application "World" (the one to be quit at 00:00)?
>
> If the latter, the plist should automatically be read and loaded when
> the user logs in, within the correct context.

Sorry, I meant "LaunchAgents" instead of "LaunchDaemons" in the above.

Axel
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[Dan Shoop]

At 10:04 PM +1100 2/28/07, Christopher Hunt wrote:
>Latest update: I think that my problem has something to do with
>either the sequence of when Finder is launched and/or whether Finder
>is even present.

Finder???

As I said earlier this is all entirely inappropriate concepts to be
canting in the same breath as launchd.

>  I didn't think it important to mention that the user B account is
>also a kiosk style of account i.e. a custom application is launched
>in place of Finder. Perhaps this is causing the problem...

Kiosk?


I smell wool
--

-dhan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Systems & Networks Architect                      http://www.ustsvs.com/
shoop@...                                http://www.iwiring.net/
1-714-363-1174

"The wise man doesn't give the right answers, he poses the right
questions." -- Claude Levi-Strauss

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Jared Earle]

On 2/28/07, Christopher Hunt <huntc@...> wrote:
> I didn't think it important to mention that the user
> B account is also a kiosk style of account i.e. a custom application
> is launched in place of Finder. Perhaps this is causing the problem...

Do you think?

--
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[huntc]

Well it appears that what I'm trying to do (create a LaunchAgent for  
a specific user that issues an osascript command) is legitimate; it  
just doesn't work for Tiger. More specifically LaunchAgents don't  
work too well on Tiger. However Leopard apparently fixes things up.

I have this advice from the "horses mouth" a.k.a. the guy in Apple  
that looks after launchd. Here are excerpts of his replies at the  
launchd-dev@... forum after having explained my  
problem:

> Known bug in Tiger, and fixed in Leopard.
> For most practical purposes, LaunchAgents don't function as  
> advertised in Tiger.
> You can use them as long as you never logout.

In other words avoid LaunchAgents for Tiger.

'hope that this has been useful - it has been for me!

Cheers,
-C
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[LuKreme]

On 28-Feb-2007, at 16:21, Christopher Hunt wrote:
> dev@... forum after having explained my problem:
>> Known bug in Tiger, and fixed in Leopard.
>> For most practical purposes, LaunchAgents don't function as  
>> advertised in Tiger.
>> You can use them as long as you never logout.
>
> In other words avoid LaunchAgents for Tiger.

I don't think it is at all that simple.  Every LaunchAgent I've  
PROPERLY setup has worked just fine.  However, osascript ASSUMES the  
Finder is present, so without a finder it's going to be weird.

I suspect there's more to this than simply "they don't work".

--
Lister: What d'ya think of Betty? Cat: Betty Rubble? Well, I would go  
with Betty... but I'd be thinking of Wilma. Lister: This is crazy.  
Why are we talking about going to bed with Wilma Flintstone? Cat:  
You're right. We're nuts. This is an insane conversation. Lister:  
She'll never leave Fred, and we know it.


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[huntc]

On 02/03/2007, at 7:00 AM, macosx-admin-request@... wrote:

> On 28-Feb-2007, at 16:21, Christopher Hunt wrote:
>> dev@... forum after having explained my problem:
>>> Known bug in Tiger, and fixed in Leopard.
>>> For most practical purposes, LaunchAgents don't function as
>>> advertised in Tiger.
>>> You can use them as long as you never logout.
>>
>> In other words avoid LaunchAgents for Tiger.
>
> I don't think it is at all that simple.
> Every LaunchAgent I've
> PROPERLY setup has worked just fine.

As Apple said, as long as you don't log out then all should be well.  
Do you log out?

> However, osascript ASSUMES the
> Finder is present, so without a finder it's going to be weird.
So how come then that cron works just fine for me? I have a crontab  
for the specific user - same user, same environment, same command.  
The osascript doesn't work under launchd but it does under cron.

>
> I suspect there's more to this than simply "they don't work".
I'm curious as to whether you're logging out or not. If you're not  
logging out then things might be fine for you.

Cheers,
-C
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[huntc]

Hi Dan,

On 01/03/2007, at 2:26 AM, Dan Shoop wrote:

> At 10:04 PM +1100 2/28/07, Christopher Hunt wrote:
>> Latest update: I think that my problem has something to do with  
>> either the sequence of when Finder is launched and/or whether  
>> Finder is even present.
>
> Finder???
Finder is the application that runs upon logging in - it provides the  
ability to move and manipulate the file system. The application is  
located at:

/System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app

A nice definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Finder

>
> As I said earlier this is all entirely inappropriate concepts to be  
> canting in the same breath as launchd.
Well, I'm not sure why - the Finder is not the WindowServer.  
Additionally the equivalent job works fine under crontab as I  
explained before. Apple have explained that there are problems with  
LaunchAgents in the current OS X.

>
>>  I didn't think it important to mention that the user B account is  
>> also a kiosk style of account i.e. a custom application is  
>> launched in place of Finder. Perhaps this is causing the problem...
>
> Kiosk?
A Kiosk is an application designed to keep the user in a captured  
environment generally such that they cannot manipulate the file  
system and operate the desktop in regular ways. An example of a kiosk  
is an Internet Kiosk in an airport.

Here's a link for you:

http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2062.html

...and another:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_kiosk

> I smell wool
You must live in New Zealand then. ;-)

Cheers,
-C
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[Axel Luttgens]

On 1/03/07 21:41, Christopher Hunt wrote:

> On 02/03/2007, at 7:00 AM, macosx-admin-request@... wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> I don't think it is at all that simple.
>> Every LaunchAgent I've
>> PROPERLY setup has worked just fine.
>
> As Apple said, as long as you don't log out then all should be well.  
> Do you log out?
>
>> However, osascript ASSUMES the
>> Finder is present, so without a finder it's going to be weird.
>
> So how come then that cron works just fine for me? I have a crontab  
> for the specific user - same user, same environment, same command.  
> The osascript doesn't work under launchd but it does under cron.
>
>>
>> I suspect there's more to this than simply "they don't work".
>
> I'm curious as to whether you're logging out or not. If you're not  
> logging out then things might be fine for you.

I would agree with you, Christopher: whether the Finder is present or
not shouldn't have any impact in this case.

On the other hand, according to your various emails, it seems you are
encountering problems even within a Finder environment (but I may be
wrong: I sometimes felt lost).

So, it would be nice to compare what's happening on your box against
another one.
(let's first start with very basic facts...)

Could you try the following, and tell us whether you observe dissimilar
behaviors?

1. Create a regular user "test", without admin rights.
2. Put this one into ~test/Library/LaunchAgents:

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN"
"http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
    <plist version="1.0">
    <dict>
            <key>Debug</key>
            <true/>
            <key>Label</key>
            <string>com.classactionpl.restartvision</string>
            <key>OnDemand</key>
            <true/>
            <key>ProgramArguments</key>
            <array>
                    <string>osascript</string>
                    <string>-e</string>
                    <string>tell application "TextEdit" to quit</string>
            </array>
            <key>StartInterval</key>
            <integer>60</integer>
    </dict>
    </plist>

3. Do various log in/out as described in following comented excerpt of
system.log:

    3.1. Log in as user "test":

    Mar  3 11:11:06 ALMbp
/System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Contents/MacOS/loginwindow:
Login Window Application Started
    Mar  3 11:11:06 ALMbp loginwindow[1242]: Login Window Started
Security Agent

    Wait 5-6 minutes; as the target of the Quit event, TextEdit is
    quickly launched then quit every minute. On the other hand, if
    TextEdit is already running because user "test" has launched it,
    it is just quit.
    Everything thus "works" as expected.

    3.2. Now, log out, then log in as user "test" again:

    Mar  3 11:17:23 ALMbp
/System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Contents/MacOS/loginwindow:
Login Window Application Started
    Mar  3 11:17:23 ALMbp loginwindow[1287]: Login Window Started
Security Agent
    Mar  3 11:18:15 ALMbp launchd[1255]:
com.classactionpl.restartvision: exited abnormally: Abort trap
    Mar  3 11:18:15 ALMbp launchd[1255]:
com.classactionpl.restartvision: 9 more failures without living at least
60 seconds will cause job removal
    [...]
    Mar  3 11:26:15 ALMbp launchd[1255]:
com.classactionpl.restartvision: exited abnormally: Abort trap
    Mar  3 11:26:15 ALMbp launchd[1255]:
com.classactionpl.restartvision: 1 more failure without living at least
60 seconds will cause job removal
    Mar  3 11:27:15 ALMbp launchd[1255]:
com.classactionpl.restartvision: exited abnormally: Abort trap
    Mar  3 11:27:15 ALMbp launchd[1255]:
com.classactionpl.restartvision: too many failures in succession

    As expected, we have encountered that well-know problem with launch
    agents: they don't quit with the user's session, so that they have
    lost their context on subsequent logins.
    Here, having waited long enough to allow for 10 failures, the job
    thus gets unloaded.

    3.3. So, log out, then log in as user "test" again:

    Mar  3 11:28:12 ALMbp
/System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Contents/MacOS/loginwindow:
Login Window Application Started
    Mar  3 11:28:12 ALMbp loginwindow[1333]: Login Window Started
Security Agent

    As expected, the job is re-loaded and everything works fine with
    TextEdit again.

    3.4. Log out, then log in as another user on the box:

    Mar  3 11:29:37 ALMbp
/System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Contents/MacOS/loginwindow:
Login Window Application Started
    Mar  3 11:29:37 ALMbp loginwindow[1363]: Login Window Started
Security Agent
    Mar  3 11:30:20 ALMbp osascript: kCGErrorRangeCheck : Window Server
communications from outside of session allowed for root and console user
only
    Mar  3 11:30:20 ALMbp launchd[1346]:
com.classactionpl.restartvision: exited abnormally: Abort trap
    Mar  3 11:30:20 ALMbp launchd[1346]:
com.classactionpl.restartvision: 9 more failures without living at least
60 seconds will cause job removal
    [...]

    Exactly what was to be expected, thus...


Axel
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[huntc]

Hi Axel,

I haven't yet tried the steps that you outlined - but I'm sold with  
your convincing reproduction of what I've been seeing.

Let me answer a few specifics:

On 03/03/2007, at 10:41 PM, Axel Luttgens wrote:

> I would agree with you, Christopher: whether the Finder is present  
> or not shouldn't have any impact in this case.
Great.

> On the other hand, according to your various emails, it seems you  
> are encountering problems even within a Finder environment (but I  
> may be wrong: I sometimes felt lost).
Many apologies for the confusion. The source of the confusion I feel  
has to do with fast user switching. Now that I think about it, the  
user that worked just fine was the first user I logged in with (this  
user had the Finder launched). The user I switched to from the first  
user demonstrated the problem (this user had no Finder). I'll bet  
that if I had of completely logged out, logged in to the second user,  
have the job unload and then log out/log back in (effectively all  
that you've done) then all would have been well for that second user  
i.e. nothing to do with the presence of the Finder.

>
> So, it would be nice to compare what's happening on your box  
> against another one.
> (let's first start with very basic facts...)
>
> Could you try the following, and tell us whether you observe  
> dissimilar behaviors?
I can give it a go on Monday when I'm back in the office, but I'm  
sure you've nailed it.

In a nutshell, "don't use LaunchAgents with Tiger unless you stay  
logged in" seems to be holding up.

Cheers,
-C
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