leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD

[Don Wilde]

http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software

--
-- Don Wilde
   " Engineering the Future "
http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com
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[Julian H. Stacey-3]

Hi,
> From: Don Wilde <dwilde1@...>

Don Wilde wrote:
> http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software

Article contains
        "The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved.
        Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge
        to be open forever more, and everything developed after
        that was AT&T's property."

False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist
was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read
the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless).

The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much
anyway - they signed non disclosures.

Cheers,
Julian
--
Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com
  Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64.      http://asciiribbon.org
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[Don Wilde]

What is incorrect, Julian? I interviewed both Kirk McK and Berkeley's
chief legal beagle several years ago. If I'm incorrect, I'd prefer to
get it right.

I even bought Kirk's video after a FBSD convention a long time back.
He was drinking beer by the pitcher, so I'm sure he was more
forthcoming than usual.

I also was the one who orchestrated the Darwin press release when
working as a stringer with Bob Bruce's WC-CDROM, so I do have a little
history here.

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Julian H. Stacey <jhs@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>> From:         Don Wilde <dwilde1@...>
>
> Don Wilde wrote:
>> http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software
>
> Article contains
>        "The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved.
>        Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge
>        to be open forever more, and everything developed after
>        that was AT&T's property."
>
> False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist
> was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read
> the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless).
>
> The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much
> anyway - they signed non disclosures.
>
> Cheers,
> Julian
> --
> Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com
>  Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64.      http://asciiribbon.org
>  Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam.             http://berklix.com/free/
>

--
-- Don Wilde
   " Engineering the Future "
http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com
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[Julian H. Stacey-3]

Don Wilde wrote:
> What is incorrect, Julian?
.. etc.

In 1977 I started learning Unix V6 as a Unix newbie.  There were
no UCB bits I heard of till csh & job control & vi floated in to
my Uni. a few years on, maybe 1980 +/- a year or 2, I'd guess about
82.  Can't remember when I heard of first complete BSD releases for
PDP/VAX but after the individual bits.

man 3 ctime
        "The functions ctime(), gmtime() and localtime() all take
        as an argument a time value representing the time in seconds
        since the Epoch (00:00:00 UTC, January 1, 1970; see time(3))."

1970 in context quoted below ? No.

> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Julian H. Stacey <jhs@...> wrote:
> >> From:         Don Wilde <dwilde1@...>
> > Don Wilde wrote:
> >> http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software
> > Article contains
> >        "The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved.
> >        Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge
> >        to be open forever more, and everything developed after
> >        that was AT&T's property."
> >
> > False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist
> > was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read
> > the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless).
> >
> > The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much
> > anyway - they signed non disclosures.
>
> --
> -- Don Wilde
>    " Engineering the Future "
> http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com

Cheers,
Julian
--
Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com
  Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64.      http://asciiribbon.org
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[Don Wilde]

Thank you, Julian -

Me bits be scrambled, methinks. Apologies all, correcting it I am now.,

For the record, the agreement was made in 1994. Here is the complete text.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20041126130302760  -- :D

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Julian H. Stacey <jhs@...> wrote:

> Don Wilde wrote:
>> What is incorrect, Julian?
> .. etc.
>
> In 1977 I started learning Unix V6 as a Unix newbie.  There were
> no UCB bits I heard of till csh & job control & vi floated in to
> my Uni. a few years on, maybe 1980 +/- a year or 2, I'd guess about
> 82.  Can't remember when I heard of first complete BSD releases for
> PDP/VAX but after the individual bits.
>
> man 3 ctime
>        "The functions ctime(), gmtime() and localtime() all take
>        as an argument a time value representing the time in seconds
>        since the Epoch (00:00:00 UTC, January 1, 1970; see time(3))."
>
> 1970 in context quoted below ? No.
>
>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Julian H. Stacey <jhs@...> wrote:
>> >> From:         Don Wilde <dwilde1@...>
>> > Don Wilde wrote:
>> >> http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software
>> > Article contains
>> >        "The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved.
>> >        Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge
>> >        to be open forever more, and everything developed after
>> >        that was AT&T's property."
>> >
>> > False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist
>> > was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read
>> > the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless).
>> >
>> > The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much
>> > anyway - they signed non disclosures.
>>
>> --
>> -- Don Wilde
>>    " Engineering the Future "
>> http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com
>
> Cheers,
> Julian
> --
> Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com
>  Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64.      http://asciiribbon.org
>  Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam.             http://berklix.com/free/
>

--
-- Don Wilde
   " Engineering the Future "
http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com
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[Dag-Erling Smørgrav]

Don Wilde <dwilde1@...> writes:
> What is incorrect, Julian?

Pretty much everything about the lawsuit.

http://oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/kirkmck.html
http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/USLsettlement.pdf

I found the phrase "everything developed before 1970" particularly
amusing, as it translates to approximately zero, plus or minus zero.

Oh, and pretty much everything else as well.

The practice of sharing source code without compensation (and the term
"copyleft") can be traced to a hobbyist magazine that later developed
into Dr Dobb's, and predates 3BSD (1BSD and 2BSD were only add-ons, not
OS distributions) by about five years.  The first explicit discussion of
free software as such was in an article published in the July 1976 issue
of SIGPLAN in reaction to Bill Gate's (in)famous "open letter".  The
first organized F/OSS movement was, like it or not, the GNU Project
started by Richard Stallman in 1983.  At that time, BSD was distributed
only to institutions that already held an AT&T source code license.  The
network stack was "open sourced" in the late eighties, the rest of the
system in the early-to-mid nineties.

> He was drinking beer by the pitcher, so I'm sure he was more
> forthcoming than usual.

I neither know nor care whether that statement is true, but it's not a
particularly nice thing to say about anyone.

DES
--
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@...
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[Don Wilde]

Dag-Erling, I remember you quite well as a core developer, so I don't
doubt that your knowledge of history is better than mine. Thank you
both for the corrections.

AFA pitchers of beer, it was meant as a friendly dig on an insider's
list and not meant as disrespect for Kirk's achievements, which have
far more to do with all of us being here today than I do. :D

2009/9/28 Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@...>:

> Don Wilde <dwilde1@...> writes:
>> What is incorrect, Julian?
>
> Pretty much everything about the lawsuit.
>
> http://oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/kirkmck.html
> http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/USLsettlement.pdf
>
> I found the phrase "everything developed before 1970" particularly
> amusing, as it translates to approximately zero, plus or minus zero.
>
> Oh, and pretty much everything else as well.
>
> The practice of sharing source code without compensation (and the term
> "copyleft") can be traced to a hobbyist magazine that later developed
> into Dr Dobb's, and predates 3BSD (1BSD and 2BSD were only add-ons, not
> OS distributions) by about five years.  The first explicit discussion of
> free software as such was in an article published in the July 1976 issue
> of SIGPLAN in reaction to Bill Gate's (in)famous "open letter".  The
> first organized F/OSS movement was, like it or not, the GNU Project
> started by Richard Stallman in 1983.  At that time, BSD was distributed
> only to institutions that already held an AT&T source code license.  The
> network stack was "open sourced" in the late eighties, the rest of the
> system in the early-to-mid nineties.
>
>> He was drinking beer by the pitcher, so I'm sure he was more
>> forthcoming than usual.
>
> I neither know nor care whether that statement is true, but it's not a
> particularly nice thing to say about anyone.
>
> DES
> --
> Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@...
>

--
-- Don Wilde
   " Engineering the Future "
http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com
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[Dag-Erling Smørgrav]

Don Wilde <dwilde1@...> writes:
> Dag-Erling, I remember you quite well as a core developer, so I don't
> doubt that your knowledge of history is better than mine.

Never been on core.  My knowledge of this matter comes from researching
it (thoroughly) for the history section of a presentation on open source
licensing.

DES
--
Dag-Erling Smørgrav - des@...
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[Madika Vuite]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Don Wilde <dwilde1@...> wrote:

> What is incorrect, Julian? I interviewed both Kirk McK and Berkeley's
> chief legal beagle several years ago. If I'm incorrect, I'd prefer to
> get it right.
>
> I even bought Kirk's video after a FBSD convention a long time back.
> He was drinking beer by the pitcher, so I'm sure he was more
> forthcoming than usual.
>
> I also was the one who orchestrated the Darwin press release when
> working as a stringer with Bob Bruce's WC-CDROM, so I do have a little
> history here.
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Julian H. Stacey <jhs@...>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >> From:         Don Wilde <dwilde1@...>
> >
> > Don Wilde wrote:
> >>
> http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software
> >
> > Article contains
> >        "The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved.
> >        Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge
> >        to be open forever more, and everything developed after
> >        that was AT&T's property."
> >
> > False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist
> > was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read
> > the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless).
> >
> > The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much
> > anyway - they signed non disclosures.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Julian
> > --
> > Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich
> http://berklix.com
> >  Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64.      http://asciiribbon.org
> >  Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam.             http://berklix.com/free/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -- Don Wilde
>   " Engineering the Future "
> http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd-advocacy@... mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@...
> "
>

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[Chad Perrin]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 08:11:39PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote:
>
> I found the phrase "everything developed before 1970" particularly
> amusing, as it translates to approximately zero, plus or minus zero.

Wait . . . that wasn't a typo?

--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]