Nabble - linux-audio-user

Re: autotalent in action

2009-11-12T04:51:37Z

Very nice music..

Can you give me details of the song? I am gonna air it on www.radio.ufscar.br
Which software did you use to produce it ?

Daniel D2

2009/11/12 Marco Milanesi <kpanic@...>

Excerpts from Atte André Jensen's message of Thu Nov 12 09:44:30 +0100 2009:

> Marco Milanesi wrote:
>
> > http://radio.gnufunk.org
>
> Isn't the tunes in there supposed to be under creative commens?

yep, maybe one of the CC* licenses suits your work, one of the less permissive
is CC-BY-NC-ND

it is a *very* nice track, so we are inclined to insert into our radio
programming.

thanks

ciao,
Marco
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Re: UA-101 (was: status usb2 for sound)

2009-11-12T04:45:26Z

2009/11/12 Clemens Ladisch <clemens@...>:

> Fritz Meissner wrote:
>> 2009/11/10 Clemens Ladisch <clemens@...>:
>> > Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
>> > > Any hope anyone else might take this one up anytime soon?
>> >
>> > Yes.
>>
>> Are you talking about getting advanced mode working ?
>
> No, because this device does not have an "advanced mode".
> Do you mean full-speed mode?
>

Sorry, I was getting confused - I have UA-1EX, not UA-101 which is of
course a much more capable product. It would though be great to be
able to use the 24 bit/96 ks/sec mode with this.

Fritz
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Re: yoshimi records

2009-11-12T04:24:34Z

You've had quite a little tragedy unfolding there, and I felt guilty for ignoring
it. Hopefully things have improved, but ...

Peter Geirnaert wrote:
> [ ... ]
> peter@FreqHost:/mnt/Data/src/yoshimi-0.037/src$ yoshimi
> gzopen failed, errno 2, No such file or directory
> Error, xml file /home/peter/.zynaddsubfxXML.cfg could not be loaded or
> uncompressed
mutter, mutter, that's not nice. One day I should fix that.
[ ... ]

> ADsynth Oscilsize: 2048
> Sample Rate: 44100
> Sound Buffer Size: 32
Are you really running jack with period size 32? Wow!
[ ... ]

> [ 81%] Building CXX object CMakeFiles/yoshimi.dir/MusicIO/WavRecord.cpp.o
> [ 82%] Building CXX object CMakeFiles/yoshimi.dir/main.cpp.o
> In file included from /mnt/Data/src/yoshimi-0.037/src/main.cpp:315:
> /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.3.3/include/xmmintrin.h:35:3: error:
> #error "SSE instruction set not enabled"
What cpu is this?
[ ...]

> PPS: I like the colors.
Really? Maybe ... I'm starting to not notice them.

cheers.

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Re: UA-101 (was: status usb2 for sound)

2009-11-12T04:18:06Z

Fritz Meissner wrote:
> 2009/11/10 Clemens Ladisch <clemens@...>:
> > Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
> > > Any hope anyone else might take this one up anytime soon?
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Are you talking about getting advanced mode working ?

No, because this device does not have an "advanced mode".
Do you mean full-speed mode?

Best regards,
Clemens
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Fwd: status usb2 for sound

2009-11-12T03:32:55Z

2009/11/10 Clemens Ladisch <clemens@...>:

> Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
>> Sorry to barge in on the conversation, but it seems to me that the UA-101
>> remains closest we got to a working USB2 soundcard yet it is not functional
>> enough to be useful (clicks due to lack of proper sync). I had a student
>> giving it a try earlier this summer and had high hopes that he would come
>> through. Alas, he gave up or got side-tracked with studies and
>> unfortunately, the thing is still not working...
>>
>> Any hope anyone else might take this one up anytime soon?
>
> Yes.
>

Are you talking about getting advanced mode working ? That would be
nice. Standard mode already works fine - I'm using it with an Acer
Aspire One running Ubuntu Netbook Remix 9.04 and it makes a very neat
portable recorder with Audacity.

Fritz
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Re: Posting style

2009-11-12T03:16:23Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>> If that is the case, why quote anything at all?
good point

> I second the motion, this is the corrected phrase:
>
> People need to get over their top-posting thing.

101% ACK
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkr77ocACgkQ1Aecwva1SWPHRgCeN6lvFAVNYcSK8VbcAZLJiJx1
LIcAoIwVAJtsmHqLbs2lYUUuPKdxQAX/
=eoxL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: Posting style (was: Re: Autotuner for Linux?)

2009-11-12T02:04:38Z

Hi,

On Thursday 12 November 2009 09:47:59 Jorge Salgueiro wrote:
> Top post is a question of accesibility to the blind. They shouldn't have to
> listen to 30 posts every time they want to contribute.
> So if you don't what no linux Stevie wonder to post in this list is your
> decision. But I don't agree with it.

But today's mail-clients are capable of detecting citations (by that nice >-
quotation markers in front of the line) and can fold these parts or format to
a smaller font-size. Why can't (screen-)readers detect and skip them?

I concur that is is a hassle if 30-mails are quoted. But the normal and
generally accepted behaviour is to answer below and only quote the relevant
parts[*]. And to use quotation-markers. Nothing worse then an outlook-user
answering directly inside your text without quotation-markers...

But if its better accessible for you, we can all switch to text above, full-
quote below and html :-)

Have fun,

Arnold

[*] Of course this implies that you have actually read at least the parts you
quote...

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Re: autotalent in action

2009-11-12T00:51:13Z

Excerpts from Atte André Jensen's message of Thu Nov 12 09:44:30 +0100 2009:
> Marco Milanesi wrote:
>
> > http://radio.gnufunk.org
>
> Isn't the tunes in there supposed to be under creative commens?

yep, maybe one of the CC* licenses suits your work, one of the less permissive
is CC-BY-NC-ND

it is a *very* nice track, so we are inclined to insert into our radio
programming.

thanks

ciao,
Marco
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Re: Posting style (was: Re: Autotuner for Linux?)

2009-11-12T00:47:59Z

Top post is a question of accesibility to the blind. They shouldn't have to listen to 30 posts every time they want to contribute.
So if you don't what no linux Stevie wonder to post in this list is your decision. But I don't agree with it.

Cheers.

Atentamente, Jorge Salgueiro (Incitec S.L.)
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2009/11/11 Gwenhwyfaer <gwenhwyfaer@...>

On 11/11/2009, Leo <leoave@...> wrote:
> People need to get over their top-posting thing.

Much more of this, and I'll be endeavouring to get over my
linux-audio-user thing...

</grumpy>

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Top post is a question of accesibility to the blind. They shouldn't have to listen to 30 posts every time they want to contribute.
So if you don't what no linux Stevie wonder to post in this list is your decision. But I don't agree with it.

Cheers.

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Re: autotalent in action

2009-11-12T00:44:30Z

Marco Milanesi wrote:

> http://radio.gnufunk.org

Isn't the tunes in there supposed to be under creative commens?

--
Atte

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Re: instructional videos ?

2009-11-12T00:41:49Z

Aurelien wrote:

>> * Is there one with a RT kernel ?
>> * Which ones will Rosegarden NOT complain that timing is not fast enough ?
>
> I think the problem won't occur if you have a RT kernel and rt
> priorities (I do not get this error when I'm with RT-kernel and rt
> priorities)

IIRC, Rosegarden wants a 1000Hz system timer. That's a kernel compile
time option that apparently a lot of kernels don't come with, so you
might have to compile your kernel with that option set.

>> * Which have the best support (paid or otherwise) ?
>> * Which is best for 64 bit machines ? Which applications need to be upgraded
>> for 64 bit architecture ?

64Studio has a version for 64-bit. Probably others do, too.

> Yeah. And I would add:
> - What about multicore in all of this. It doesn't really depend on
> distribution, much more on package.

Multicore processors and JACK - isn't that what jackdmp AKA Jack2 is for
dealing with? I don't know if any other audio apps have problems with
multicore processors.

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Re: autotalent in action

2009-11-12T00:28:55Z

Atte André Jensen wrote:

>> http://radio.gnufunk.org

Some nice tunes there.

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Re: Re : zyn/yoshimi on EEE netbook

2009-11-12T00:19:54Z

Frank Neumann wrote:

> Hi list,
> I'd just like to chime in here -
>
> Josh Lawrence <hardbop200@...> wrote:
>
> [..]
>> first blush, things are looking good but there are xruns all over the
>> place, so I installed the linux-rt kernel from the ubuntu repos.
>> eventually, yoshimi zombies, so I reboot into my new kernel.
>>
>> zombies at every patch switch. adjusted the OscilSize just for
>> giggles, but it didn't do any good. my only thoughts at this point is
>> that this netbook just might be too little power for this application.
>
> I have been trying every 5 or so updates of yoshimi in the last weeks, and for
> me it's similar to Josh's experiences:
>
> - On an Asus eeePC Netbook, I can set up things fine and can also play the default
> Sine sound, but normally within a few patch change clicks, yoshimi zombifies.
>
> - On an AMD64 2-core desktop PC, after setting things up the first MIDI event
> received by yoshimi already causes the zombie..so no sound at all here.
>
> Both machines run Ubuntu (on the desktop PC 9.04, on the eeePC 9.10), on both
> the standard ZynaddSubFX with ALSA backend works fine, and other JACK applications
> like qsampler/LinuxSampler also run just fine.
>
> I am not sure whether the last yoshimi developments did target to improve the
> zombification situation, but if they did, things have rather gotten worse than
> better for me. If I can assist in tracking the problem down, be my guest.

Up until the current "Record" attempt, all that was really changing was attempts at
efficiency & optimisation improvements (clearly, not all successful!). Today I think
I've put a sprinkle of lucid moments to good purpose, and perhaps 0.038 offers an
improvement to the zombie infestations. Hope so.
<http://www.graggrag.com/yoshimi/yoshimi-0.038.tar.bz2>

cheers, Cal
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Re: yoshimi records

2009-11-12T00:19:51Z

Folderol wrote:
> [ ... ]
> Oddity
> Sometimes when making second or third recordings there is a short snatch
> of sound at the start. Is this perhaps a buffer not flushed?
I've learned a little more about plumbing, and hopefully got it flushing
appropriately.

> Problem
> We seem to have the 'can't load parameters' back again, but this time I
> can't work out what has caused it - same symptoms.
That was ugly, and quite different to the previous anomaly. Hopefully better
now.

<http://www.graggrag.com/yoshimi/yoshimi-0.038.tar.bz2>
.
cheers!
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Re: open hw soundcard (was Re: status usb2 for sound)

2009-11-12T00:11:48Z

Hans Wilmers wrote:
>>
> I guess that jack is too big a burden for the small kind of system we
> are talking about, so the question is, if netjack could be implemented
> standalone - or maybe another suitable mechanism?
>

It should be possible to implement the netjack protocol also for a
standalone application, but with that I would wait until there are
decisions on the 'final' netjack version. The jack_netsource code is
approximately 2000 lines of C code (including "netjack_packet.c", with
CELT support and transport control).

Since packet loss is probably not acceptable in a 'sound card', it may
be worth to go for a TCP based solution. Also the clock protocol is not
included in netjack.

I see two different scenarios (OSHw = OpenSoundHardware, <---> audio
transport, <===> audio and clock transport, <~~~> audio transport with
drift control/resampling):

a) netjack based solution, one OSHw, no clock protocol, no sync:

alsa_{in,out} <~~~> jackd -dnet <---> OSHw

b) own protocol, multiple OSHw, master clock:

Master Clock
Host sound card
||
jackd <===> OSHw
<===> OSHw
<===> OSHw

c) 'classical' sound card concept:

ALSA driver <---> OSHw
|
ALSA driver <---> OSHw
|
ALSA driver <---> OSHw

(ok, that is three). From a recording studio point of view I think that
version (b) is the best. It would require to implement a driver which
itself is a jack client. As a jack client it is platform independent.

- Giso
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Re: Posting style

2009-11-12T00:10:06Z

Lorenzo wrote:

> Come on don't be so 'extreme'! This attitude eventually drives people
> away from linux, linux-audio and whatever... That way you'll drive them
> to the welcoming, warm, shiny, comfy mac mailing lists and fora :)

Naah, not really.

We can say things in a nice tone, also "I think you should consider your
posting style". It's simply to make it easier for everyone.

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Re: autotalent in action

2009-11-12T00:01:47Z

Marco Milanesi wrote:

> hi Atte!
>
> could we put this song in our radio? GNUFunk Radio, it is very very cool.
>
> http://radio.gnufunk.org

I'll ask Luna...

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Re: instructional videos ?

2009-11-12T00:00:31Z

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:02:33PM -0500, vogel@... wrote :

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Phillips" <dlphillips@...>
> To: "LAU" <linux-audio-user@...>
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:07 AM
> Subject: [LAU] instructional videos ?
>
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > As many of you know, the Linux Journal has been running video
> > presentations in lieu of some written articles. They've asked me to make
> > a few, so I thought I'd ask on this list to find out what topics LAU
> > folk might want to see illuminated via video. Feel free to suggest any
> > relevant topic, whether in the production realm or desktop entertainment.
> >
> > FYI: Current systems running here include JAD 1.0, 64 Studio 2.1 and
> > 3.0b, and Ubuntu Jaunty. I finally got a copy of a recent Fedora and
> > will install Planet C on one of these machines too.
> >
> > So, what would you like to see from Studio Dave ?
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > dp
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux-audio-user mailing list
> > Linux-audio-user@...
> > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I am running an AMD64 machine and having difficulty with Ubuntu 9.10, so
> soon I could be
> shopping for another distribution.
>
> Knowing that you run multiple distributions, could you compare the
> advantages of each ?
>
> * Is there one with a RT kernel ?
> * Which ones will Rosegarden NOT complain that timing is not fast enough ?

I think the problem won't occur if you have a RT kernel and rt
priorities (I do not get this error when I'm with RT-kernel and rt
priorities)

> * Which is easiest to configure ?
> * Is Pulseaudio a good addition...or is it a problem ?

Ah....

> * Which ones are reasonably up to date ?
> * Which ones require, or would be best with, a kernel recompile ?

Kernel and/or packages.

> * Which have the best support (paid or otherwise) ?
> * Which is best for 64 bit machines ? Which applications need to be upgraded
> for 64 bit architecture ?

Yeah. And I would add:
- What about multicore in all of this. It doesn't really depend on
distribution, much more on package.

>
> These are but a few of the questions that come to mind.
>
> Your thoughts ?
>
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Re: Posting style

2009-11-11T23:53:49Z

> Anyway, this is not about your personal preferences. Bottom posting is
> the accepted norm here and not doing so breaks consistency and I
> consider it disrepectful.
>
Come on don't be so 'extreme'! This attitude eventually drives people
away from linux, linux-audio and whatever... That way you'll drive them
to the welcoming, warm, shiny, comfy mac mailing lists and fora :)
> http://www.idallen.com/topposting.htm
So what? This website uses tables for making the menus, uses HTML strict
but then doesn't validate on the W3C.. Should it be some virtuous example?

We're all humans, let's try and be as tolerant with others as we would
like with ourselves: I think this really is the spirit of positive
diversity and plurality in a community like the linux one.

Al the best,
Lorenzo
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autotalent in action

2009-11-11T23:34:13Z

Hi

In honor of the new toy for us linux users (autotalent), I would like to
present a remix I just did for a singer, Luna, I work with:

http://atte.dk/download/you_always_give_me_time.mp3

Autotalent was used on the two high vocal lines between the double
chorus at the end.

If anyone would like to hear the original (I play keyboards), it's the
first track in her myspace player (called "Time"):

http://www.myspace.com/signelunaskovfrederiksen

--
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Re: Re : zyn/yoshimi on EEE netbook

2009-11-11T23:21:06Z

Roger wrote:

> david wrote:
>> Folderol wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:18:24 +0100
>>> Frank Neumann <beachnase@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi list,
>>>> I'd just like to chime in here -
>>>>
>>>> Josh Lawrence <hardbop200@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [..]
>>>>
>>>>> first blush, things are looking good but there are xruns all over the
>>>>> place, so I installed the linux-rt kernel from the ubuntu repos.
>>>>> eventually, yoshimi zombies, so I reboot into my new kernel.
>>>>>
>>>>> zombies at every patch switch. adjusted the OscilSize just for
>>>>> giggles, but it didn't do any good. my only thoughts at this point is
>>>>> that this netbook just might be too little power for this application.
>>>>>
>>>> I have been trying every 5 or so updates of yoshimi in the last
>>>> weeks, and for
>>>> me it's similar to Josh's experiences:
>>>>
>>>> - On an Asus eeePC Netbook, I can set up things fine and can also
>>>> play the default
>>>> Sine sound, but normally within a few patch change clicks, yoshimi
>>>> zombifies.
>>>>
>>>> - On an AMD64 2-core desktop PC, after setting things up the first
>>>> MIDI event
>>>> received by yoshimi already causes the zombie..so no sound at all
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>> This is very strange. I am running on an AMD dual core desktop machine
>>> and stability is exceptional. However I'm not running ubuntu. I am
>>> running 64studio 3 beta with some debian squeeze enhancements.
>>>
>>
>> That reminded me (completely unrelated to the original posters's
>> question) - I downloaded US beta 3, K3B only wants to burn it onto a
>> CD but then announces that its burning more than the official capacity
>> ... and completely refuses to offer an option to burn it to a DVD ...
>>
> That's a bug I've noticed before. If you right-click on the .iso you
> only get the option to burn to CD. If you open K3b first, select "Burn
> DVD iso" then navigate to the .iso and select it, all should be well.

That worked. Unfortunately, it's not a Live DVD - it only wants to install.

--
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Re: Re : zyn/yoshimi on EEE netbook

2009-11-11T21:26:09Z

david wrote:

> Folderol wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:18:24 +0100
>> Frank Neumann <beachnase@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi list,
>>> I'd just like to chime in here -
>>>
>>> Josh Lawrence <hardbop200@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> [..]
>>>
>>>> first blush, things are looking good but there are xruns all over the
>>>> place, so I installed the linux-rt kernel from the ubuntu repos.
>>>> eventually, yoshimi zombies, so I reboot into my new kernel.
>>>>
>>>> zombies at every patch switch. adjusted the OscilSize just for
>>>> giggles, but it didn't do any good. my only thoughts at this point is
>>>> that this netbook just might be too little power for this application.
>>>>
>>> I have been trying every 5 or so updates of yoshimi in the last weeks, and for
>>> me it's similar to Josh's experiences:
>>>
>>> - On an Asus eeePC Netbook, I can set up things fine and can also play the default
>>> Sine sound, but normally within a few patch change clicks, yoshimi zombifies.
>>>
>>> - On an AMD64 2-core desktop PC, after setting things up the first MIDI event
>>> received by yoshimi already causes the zombie..so no sound at all here.
>>>
>> This is very strange. I am running on an AMD dual core desktop machine
>> and stability is exceptional. However I'm not running ubuntu. I am
>> running 64studio 3 beta with some debian squeeze enhancements.
>>
>
> That reminded me (completely unrelated to the original posters's
> question) - I downloaded US beta 3, K3B only wants to burn it onto a CD
> but then announces that its burning more than the official capacity ...
> and completely refuses to offer an option to burn it to a DVD ...
>
>

That's a bug I've noticed before. If you right-click on the .iso you
only get the option to burn to CD. If you open K3b first, select "Burn
DVD iso" then navigate to the .iso and select it, all should be well.

Roger
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Re: Re : zyn/yoshimi on EEE netbook

2009-11-11T18:23:46Z

Folderol wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:18:24 +0100
> Frank Neumann <beachnase@...> wrote:
>
>> Hi list,
>> I'd just like to chime in here -
>>
>> Josh Lawrence <hardbop200@...> wrote:
>>
>> [..]
>>> first blush, things are looking good but there are xruns all over the
>>> place, so I installed the linux-rt kernel from the ubuntu repos.
>>> eventually, yoshimi zombies, so I reboot into my new kernel.
>>>
>>> zombies at every patch switch. adjusted the OscilSize just for
>>> giggles, but it didn't do any good. my only thoughts at this point is
>>> that this netbook just might be too little power for this application.
>> I have been trying every 5 or so updates of yoshimi in the last weeks, and for
>> me it's similar to Josh's experiences:
>>
>> - On an Asus eeePC Netbook, I can set up things fine and can also play the default
>> Sine sound, but normally within a few patch change clicks, yoshimi zombifies.
>>
>> - On an AMD64 2-core desktop PC, after setting things up the first MIDI event
>> received by yoshimi already causes the zombie..so no sound at all here.
>
> This is very strange. I am running on an AMD dual core desktop machine
> and stability is exceptional. However I'm not running ubuntu. I am
> running 64studio 3 beta with some debian squeeze enhancements.

That reminded me (completely unrelated to the original posters's
question) - I downloaded US beta 3, K3B only wants to burn it onto a CD
but then announces that its burning more than the official capacity ...
and completely refuses to offer an option to burn it to a DVD ...

--
David
gnome@...
authenticity, honesty, community
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Re: open hw soundcard (was Re: status usb2 for sound)

2009-11-11T15:47:49Z

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 10:59:39PM +0000, Folderol wrote:

> An entire cycle of 48kHz is about 20 uS so jitter would have to be
> significantly less than that to avoid 'cogging'.

It's not the amplitude of the jitter that matters but
the spectrum. Even the best and most expensive audio
cards have lots of very low frequency jitter. And if
you lock them to an external reference the local VLF
jitter is replaced by that of the reference (within
the PLL bandwidth).

Jitter creates phase modulation, and the amplitude
of the sidebands increases with signal frequency.
To have a clean top end any non-VLF jitter should
be below a nanosecond or so. It's not so difficult
at all to achieve this with a PLL provided the
reference is stable.

Syncing two or more cards (so they will produce
time-aligned samples if given the same analog input)
is another matter. But if the 'soundcard' is dedicated
hardware there are relatively simple solutions for that.

Ciao,

--
FA

Io lo dico sempre: l'Italia è troppo stretta e lunga.

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Re: open hw soundcard (was Re: status usb2 for sound)

2009-11-11T14:59:39Z

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:30:08 +0100 (CET)
karl@... (Karl Hammar) wrote:

> Giso Grimm:
> > Maybe I am something missing, but what about the clock synchronisation?
>
> There are works to make ieee1588 (PTP) into linux, [1-4].
> That might help.
>
> In [5], they seem to get <10us offset from a master within 2minutes
> converging time. [6] gives a little different picture.
>
> > It would be nice to allow synchronisation of several devices via the
> > network connection. This transport medium typically has a lot of jitter
> > (even an unloaded gigabit system can be above 50µsec), however, the
> > jitter of typical AD/DA converters should be in the order of
> > nanoseconds.
>
> Do you (or anyone else) know the maximum allowable jitter useful for
> audio?

Jitter, as such is a solvable problem. You use a phase locked
loop with a long enough time constant (high division factor) to average
out the jitter. Where you have semi-permanent connections this time
constant can be quite long provided that all the slave oscillators are
pretty stable, and the master is rock solid.

An entire cycle of 48kHz is about 20 uS so jitter would have to be
significantly less than that to avoid 'cogging'.

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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Re: open hw soundcard (was Re: status usb2 for sound)

2009-11-11T14:54:44Z

Karl Hammar wrote:

> In [5], they seem to get <10us offset from a master within 2minutes
> converging time. [6] gives a little different picture.

You can get much better performance than that.

>> It would be nice to allow synchronisation of several devices via the
>> network connection. This transport medium typically has a lot of jitter
>> (even an unloaded gigabit system can be above 50µsec), however, the
>> jitter of typical AD/DA converters should be in the order of
>> nanoseconds.
> Do you (or anyone else) know the maximum allowable jitter useful for
> audio?

It is defined in AES-3.

Flo
--
Machines can do the work, so people have time to think.
public key DA43FEF4 x-hkp://wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net
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Re: Posting style (was: Re: Autotuner for Linux?)

2009-11-11T14:37:26Z

On 11/11/2009, Leo <leoave@...> wrote:
> People need to get over their top-posting thing.

Much more of this, and I'll be endeavouring to get over my
linux-audio-user thing...

</grumpy>
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Re: open hw soundcard (was Re: status usb2 for sound)

2009-11-11T14:30:08Z

Giso Grimm:
> Maybe I am something missing, but what about the clock synchronisation?

There are works to make ieee1588 (PTP) into linux, [1-4].
That might help.

In [5], they seem to get <10us offset from a master within 2minutes
converging time. [6] gives a little different picture.

> It would be nice to allow synchronisation of several devices via the
> network connection. This transport medium typically has a lot of jitter
> (even an unloaded gigabit system can be above 50µsec), however, the
> jitter of typical AD/DA converters should be in the order of
> nanoseconds.

Do you (or anyone else) know the maximum allowable jitter useful for
audio?

> And in the case of several devices, how is it possible to
> compensate the absolute delay? All devices should be in phase, with a
> deterministic inter-device delay.

We have to think about that, I have no answer today.

> If it is only a single device it should be possible to use netjack: Then
> it behaves as a small host with its own sound card, and running jack
> with netjack_client (or whatever it ins called in recent versions). Any
> remote PC can run jack with the net backend to connect. Well, with
> netjack for jack0.116.2 the connection request is made from the other
> direction, in this case the open sound card, but connect requests could
> be triggered via OSC. And Netjack2 for jack2 seems to work completely
> differently.

So, it amount to write an alsa driver then?

Regards,
/Karl

[1] http://www.ixxat.com/evaluation-kit-linux-live-cd_en,24073,5873.html
[2] http://ptpd.sourceforge.net/
[3] http://www.estamos.de/blog/2009/07/01/linux-2-6-30-hardware-assisted-time-stamping-of-network-packets/
[4] http://bombadil.infradead.org/pipermail/ptpd/2009-November/000012.html
[5] http://ptpd.sourceforge.net/ptpd_2005_1588_conference_paper.pdf
[6] http://www.linuxclustersinstitute.org/conferences/archive/2008/PDF/Ohly_92221.pdf

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Re: open hw soundcard (was Re: status usb2 for sound)

2009-11-11T14:27:55Z

On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 21:33 +0100, Giso Grimm wrote:
> Maybe I am something missing, but what about the clock synchronization?
> It would be nice to allow synchronization of several devices via the
> network connection. This transport medium typically has a lot of jitter
> (even an unloaded gigabit system can be above 50µsec), however, the
> jitter of typical AD/DA converters should be in the order of
> nanoseconds. And in the case of several devices, how is it possible to
> compensate the absolute delay? All devices should be in phase, with a
> deterministic inter-device delay.
>
Yes, that's a real problem. I don't see a solution to that either.

> If it is only a single device it should be possible to use netjack: Then
> it behaves as a small host with its own sound card, and running jack
> with netjack_client (or whatever it ins called in recent versions). Any
> remote PC can run jack with the net backend to connect. Well, with
> netjack for jack0.116.2 the connection request is made from the other
> direction, in this case the open sound card, but connect requests could
> be triggered via OSC. And Netjack2 for jack2 seems to work completely
> differently.
>
I guess that jack is too big a burden for the small kind of system we
are talking about, so the question is, if netjack could be implemented
standalone - or maybe another suitable mechanism?

/ Hans

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Re: Re : zyn/yoshimi on EEE netbook

2009-11-11T13:57:05Z

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:28:39 -0600
Josh Lawrence <hardbop200@...> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 2:01 PM, cal <cal@...> wrote:
> > Ok. I think I'm starting to get the picture. At 0.34 I tried using the threaded
> > fftw3 routines. From my observations, that hasn't really contributed anything
> > worthwhile performance wise, and it's starting to look like that move has brought
> > instability for some. Give me a moment or three and I'll drop it.
>
> awesome, cal - I'm ready to try it whenever you get ready, just say the word!

Just had a look at this on my eeePC901 (I'd never bothered before) and
I have a suspicion there is a problem with the jack-rtkernel linkup in
ubuntu - also running 9.10 and just installed the RT stuff.

If I run either standard zyn. or yoshimi through jack without RT
enabled it all works although a bit jumpy on most patches. As soon as
I enable RT I get the same zombies from both zyn and yoshi

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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Re: open hw soundcard (was Re: status usb2 for sound)

2009-11-11T13:32:40Z

Karl Hammar:
> Hans Wilmsers:
...
> > I could do parts of:
> > 1) testing OSC on ARM/embedded Linux
> > (Don't know whether I could test netjack - I have no experience with
> > that)
>
> Great! OSC [1] looks interesting, please report back.
> I think I will play a little with it also, but for a control
> application.
...

I took a deeper look into OSC.

It should be no problem implementing it, it simply is a on-the-wire
format and it should be useful since some interesting programs uses it.

But, other than that it look uninteresting, I could just as well

- $ cat | ssh host "cat > file; notify_program"
- use snmp

and the main drawback with it is that it is an one-way communication
and it "only" transfers ints, single presision floats, strings and
timestamps.

One problem though, one has to define the semantics och the data send.

- Can someone point to some wellrocognized doc for that?

- What are the conventions?

Regards,
/Karl

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Re: Re : zyn/yoshimi on EEE netbook

2009-11-11T13:28:39Z

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 2:01 PM, cal <cal@...> wrote:
> Ok. I think I'm starting to get the picture. At 0.34 I tried using the threaded
> fftw3 routines. From my observations, that hasn't really contributed anything
> worthwhile performance wise, and it's starting to look like that move has brought
> instability for some. Give me a moment or three and I'll drop it.

awesome, cal - I'm ready to try it whenever you get ready, just say the word!

--
Josh Lawrence
http://www.hardbop200.com
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Re: Re : zyn/yoshimi on EEE netbook

2009-11-11T12:38:05Z

Hi,
On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:30:29 +0000
Folderol <folderol@...> wrote:

[..]

> > I have been trying every 5 or so updates of yoshimi in the last weeks, and for
> > me it's similar to Josh's experiences:
> >
> > - On an Asus eeePC Netbook, I can set up things fine and can also play the default
> > Sine sound, but normally within a few patch change clicks, yoshimi zombifies.
> >
> > - On an AMD64 2-core desktop PC, after setting things up the first MIDI event
> > received by yoshimi already causes the zombie..so no sound at all here.
>
> This is very strange. I am running on an AMD dual core desktop machine
> and stability is exceptional. However I'm not running ubuntu. I am
> running 64studio 3 beta with some debian squeeze enhancements.
>
> Are you running 'standard' ubuntu or have you added an RT kernel with
> the appropriate adjustments to /etc/security/limits.conf ?

On the AMD64, it's still a vanilla 2.6.28-16, while on the eeePC the 9.10 upgrade
got me a shiny 2.6.31-9-rt.

On both boxes, /etc/security/limits.conf has something like

@audio - rtprio 90
@audio - nice -10
@audio - memlock 1000000

Greetings,
Frank
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Re: open hw soundcard (was Re: status usb2 for sound)

2009-11-11T12:33:26Z

Maybe I am something missing, but what about the clock synchronization?
It would be nice to allow synchronization of several devices via the
network connection. This transport medium typically has a lot of jitter
(even an unloaded gigabit system can be above 50µsec), however, the
jitter of typical AD/DA converters should be in the order of
nanoseconds. And in the case of several devices, how is it possible to
compensate the absolute delay? All devices should be in phase, with a
deterministic inter-device delay.

If it is only a single device it should be possible to use netjack: Then
it behaves as a small host with its own sound card, and running jack
with netjack_client (or whatever it ins called in recent versions). Any
remote PC can run jack with the net backend to connect. Well, with
netjack for jack0.116.2 the connection request is made from the other
direction, in this case the open sound card, but connect requests could
be triggered via OSC. And Netjack2 for jack2 seems to work completely
differently.

Best regards,

Giso

Karl Hammar wrote:

> Ken Restivo:
> ...
>> But the thought of a hardware audio interface that talks NetJACK
>> natively, however, is really intriguing. Use OSC to control the
>> interface....
> ...
>
> I took a quick look at OSC [1] and NetJACK [2]. It would be good if
> we could made that happen.
>
> What will the hardware requirements for thoose be?
>
> OSC seems simple, but NetJACK?
> I suppose it will need an alsa driver?
>
> Regards,
> /Karl
>
> [1] http://opensoundcontrol.org/
> [2] http://netjack.sourceforge.net/
>
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> S-742 94 Östhammar +46 173 140 57 Computers
> Sweden +46 70 511 97 84 Consulting
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: yoshimi records

2009-11-11T12:06:14Z

Folderol wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:50:13 +1100
> cal <cal@...> wrote:
>
>> ... maybe. I've gotten Record to the point where it hasn't done anything violent
>> to me for a while, but it still has plenty of potential for unexpected
>> shortcomings. The story so far ...
>
> <snip>
>
> Just had a quick look at this.
> Recording 'In Search Of The Lost Tribes' works perfectly, and shows
> virtually no increase in processor usage to just running it.
>
> Oddity
> Sometimes when making second or third recordings there is a short snatch
> of sound at the start. Is this perhaps a buffer not flushed?

Possibly, but also possibly related to the the threaded fftw3 usage (which
I'm about to eliminate).

> Problem
> We seem to have the 'can't load parameters' back again, but this time I
> can't work out what has caused it - same symptoms.
Most strange. I thought I did actually test that when I added your fix to
the 'Record' branch.

Sorry for the inconvenience, leave it with me for a bit.

cheers.
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