man page translations

[David Fifield]

Hi,

I took a shot at doing these TODO items:

o We should package the rendered Nroff man page translations (e.g. all
  16 languages) in the tarball to make it easier for distributors to
  package them.  For example, see
  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=358336.  Including
  the translations would add 2.5MB to the (currently 28MB)
  uncompressed tarball and about 800KB to the (currently 9MB) bz2
  compressed tarball.

o Once all the man page languages are in the Nmap tarball, we should
  update our install system to install them in the appropriate place.
  We'll want to integrate this with configure so users can decide which
  languages they want.  David thinks the standard way is like
  "--enable-nls=es,de,hr,..." or --disable-nls for English only.

In doing this I tried to match standard behavior of other packages as
much as possible, so I'm writing here to document what I understand that
to be.

The translated man pages are installed by default. They go under paths
like this:

/usr/share/man/de/man1/nmap.1
/usr/share/man/es/man1/nmap.1

At least on my system, this works to read the translations:

LANG=es_ES man nmap

I think that installing translations by default is standard behavior. I
have a lot of /usr/share/man/<code> directories on my Debian system. To
install no translated man pages, and only the English one, configure with

./configure --disable-nls

I was wrong about the --enable-nls=... syntax. To install only a subset
of the available languages, define the environment variable LINGUAS when
installing. This matches the behavior for the installation of gettext
catalogs.

LINGUAS="de es" make install

David Fifield
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[Fyodor]

On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 02:13:46PM -0700, David Fifield wrote:
>
> In doing this I tried to match standard behavior of other packages as
> much as possible,

I'm all for that!

> so I'm writing here to document what I understand that to be.
>
> The translated man pages are installed by default. They go under paths
> like this:

That concerned me at first because most people will want at most 1 or
2 languages, and we already have 16 with more coming.  But the
instructions later in your email may be the best way for such people
to proceed.

> I think that installing translations by default is standard behavior. I
> have a lot of /usr/share/man/<code> directories on my Debian system.

I have those directories, but even the largest of them is less than
10% the size of my English man pages.

> I was wrong about the --enable-nls=... syntax. To install only a subset
> of the available languages, define the environment variable LINGUAS when
> installing. This matches the behavior for the installation of gettext
> catalogs.
>
> LINGUAS="de es" make install

This sounds like a good way for people who don't want the extra man
pages to deal with it.  As you note, it will help with other packages
and with gettext catalogs too.  If we only want English, I guess we
should just set LINGUAS to "en"?  Setting it empty might work for Nmap
too, but perhaps other packages have a non-English default language?

I welcome more input if anyone has different ideas of how this should
work.  I don't know much about translation standards.

Assuming we settle on this approach (i.e. if nobody proposes something
different), can you document this in the install guide?

Thanks,
Fyodor

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[David Fifield]

On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 04:15:19PM -0800, Fyodor wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 02:13:46PM -0700, David Fifield wrote:
> > I think that installing translations by default is standard behavior. I
> > have a lot of /usr/share/man/<code> directories on my Debian system.
>
> I have those directories, but even the largest of them is less than
> 10% the size of my English man pages.
>
> > I was wrong about the --enable-nls=... syntax. To install only a subset
> > of the available languages, define the environment variable LINGUAS when
> > installing. This matches the behavior for the installation of gettext
> > catalogs.
> >
> > LINGUAS="de es" make install
>
> This sounds like a good way for people who don't want the extra man
> pages to deal with it.  As you note, it will help with other packages
> and with gettext catalogs too.  If we only want English, I guess we
> should just set LINGUAS to "en"?  Setting it empty might work for Nmap
> too, but perhaps other packages have a non-English default language?

To get only English, you should use --disable-nls. English is always
installed, in the special /usr/share/man/man1 location. LINGUAS=en
doesn't work:

/usr/bin/install: cannot stat `docs/nmap-en.1': No such file or directory

But I think I should make it not be an error if LINGUAS contains
language codes that are not among the translations we offer.

> Assuming we settle on this approach (i.e. if nobody proposes something
> different), can you document this in the install guide?

Yes, will do.

David Fifield
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[Alexander Khodyrev]

Could you share a link to the documentation on the creation of man-pages for
different languages, I would pereel man-pages into Russian.

Best regards,
Khodyrev "SpxnezzaR" Alexander


2009/11/6 David Fifield <david@...>

> Hi,
>
> I took a shot at doing these TODO items:
>
> o We should package the rendered Nroff man page translations (e.g. all
>  16 languages) in the tarball to make it easier for distributors to
>  package them.  For example, see
>  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=358336.  Including
>  the translations would add 2.5MB to the (currently 28MB)
>  uncompressed tarball and about 800KB to the (currently 9MB) bz2
>  compressed tarball.
>
> o Once all the man page languages are in the Nmap tarball, we should
>  update our install system to install them in the appropriate place.
>  We'll want to integrate this with configure so users can decide which
>  languages they want.  David thinks the standard way is like
>  "--enable-nls=es,de,hr,..." or --disable-nls for English only.
>
> In doing this I tried to match standard behavior of other packages as
> much as possible, so I'm writing here to document what I understand that
> to be.
>
> The translated man pages are installed by default. They go under paths
> like this:
>
> /usr/share/man/de/man1/nmap.1
> /usr/share/man/es/man1/nmap.1
>
> At least on my system, this works to read the translations:
>
> LANG=es_ES man nmap
>
> I think that installing translations by default is standard behavior. I
> have a lot of /usr/share/man/<code> directories on my Debian system. To
> install no translated man pages, and only the English one, configure with
>
> ./configure --disable-nls
>
> I was wrong about the --enable-nls=... syntax. To install only a subset
> of the available languages, define the environment variable LINGUAS when
> installing. This matches the behavior for the installation of gettext
> catalogs.
>
> LINGUAS="de es" make install
>
> David Fifield
> _______________________________________________
> Sent through the nmap-dev mailing list
> http://cgi.insecure.org/mailman/listinfo/nmap-dev
> Archived at http://seclists.org/nmap-dev/
>

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[David Fifield]

On Sun, Nov 08, 2009 at 03:35:27PM +0300, Alexander Khodyrev wrote:
> Could you share a link to the documentation on the creation of man-pages for
> different languages, I would pereel man-pages into Russian.

The translation guide is here:

http://nmap.org/xlate-faq.html

There is already a Russian translation. It is about a year old so you
can bring it up to date if you like.

http://nmap.org/man/ru/
http://nmap.org/xlate-faq.html#xlate-correct
http://nmap.org/data/man-xlate/nmap-man-ru.xml

David Fifield
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[Alexander Khodyrev]

Sorry, my fault. But after compile nmap i can't find russian man-pages in my
system.
other apps with russan mans show me man in my language if it avaible, but
nmap show me only english.

Best regards,
Khodyrev "SpxnezzaR" Alexander


2009/11/8 David Fifield <david@...>

> On Sun, Nov 08, 2009 at 03:35:27PM +0300, Alexander Khodyrev wrote:
> > Could you share a link to the documentation on the creation of man-pages
> for
> > different languages, I would pereel man-pages into Russian.
>
> The translation guide is here:
>
> http://nmap.org/xlate-faq.html
>
> There is already a Russian translation. It is about a year old so you
> can bring it up to date if you like.
>
> http://nmap.org/man/ru/
> http://nmap.org/xlate-faq.html#xlate-correct
> http://nmap.org/data/man-xlate/nmap-man-ru.xml
>
> David Fifield
>

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[David Fifield]

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 09:25:55PM +0300, Alexander Khodyrev wrote:
> Sorry, my fault. But after compile nmap i can't find russian man-pages in my
> system.
> other apps with russan mans show me man in my language if it avaible, but
> nmap show me only english.

Did you compile from a recent Subversion checkout? Do you have the file
/usr/local/share/man/ru/man1/nmap.1 (or /usr/share/man/ru/man1/nmap.1)
after installing? After installing I can see the Russian man page with

LANG=ru_RU man nmap

David Fifield
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[Alexander Khodyrev]

No way. I havn't this files. Also i havn't full internet access, because i'm
locate at my university, and can't svn checkout. Where i'm back to home i'll
try to do something with this.
Best regards,
Khodyrev "SpxnezzaR" Alexander


2009/11/9 David Fifield <david@...>

> On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 09:25:55PM +0300, Alexander Khodyrev wrote:
> > Sorry, my fault. But after compile nmap i can't find russian man-pages in
> my
> > system.
> > other apps with russan mans show me man in my language if it avaible, but
> > nmap show me only english.
>
> Did you compile from a recent Subversion checkout? Do you have the file
> /usr/local/share/man/ru/man1/nmap.1 (or /usr/share/man/ru/man1/nmap.1)
> after installing? After installing I can see the Russian man page with
>
> LANG=ru_RU man nmap
>
> David Fifield
>

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