mini-survey; how do you use user-defined text ?

[David J Patrick-2]

I'm just hoping to learn more about who uses user-defined text, and how.

please to tell me!
djp
_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

[Noel Henson]

On Sunday 18 October 2009, David J Patrick wrote:
> I'm just hoping to learn more about who uses user-defined text, and how.
>
> please to tell me!
> djp
> _______________________________________________
> VimOutliner mailing list
> VimOutliner@...
> http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

User-defined text is of course similar to regular text but behaves
differently when folded. This was created to address some of Steve Litt's
issues with book writing.

For example:

How to quickly cool a beer
        : One can quickly cool a beer in a number of ways blah blah
        : blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
        : blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
        : blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
        >TIP Never allow the beer to freeze. This can be very problematic
        >TIP when trying to open the beer blah blah blah

A post processor can now recognize the difference between the regular text
and the TIP text. They can be separated and formatted independently.  Also,
the >TIP block and another blocks will fold independently of one another.
You can support several types of user-defined text limited only by your
imagination. Some examples for book writing might be:

>TIP
>WARNING
>REFERENCE
>FOOTNOTE
>INDEX

Noel

--

------------------------------------------------------------------
  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

[Steve Litt]

On Sunday 18 October 2009 15:44:16 David J Patrick wrote:
> I'm just hoping to learn more about who uses user-defined text, and how.
>
> please to tell me!
> djp

What's user defined text?

STeveT


Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt


_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

[David J Patrick-2]

Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sunday 18 October 2009 15:44:16 David J Patrick wrote:
>> I'm just hoping to learn more about who uses user-defined text, and how.
>>
>> please to tell me!
>> djp
>
> What's user defined text?

there are two ways to interpret that question...
uhh.. see Noels reply
djp
_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

[Noel Henson]

On Sunday 18 October 2009, Steve Litt wrote:

> On Sunday 18 October 2009 15:44:16 David J Patrick wrote:
> > I'm just hoping to learn more about who uses user-defined text, and
> > how.
> >
> > please to tell me!
> > djp
>
> What's user defined text?
>
> STeveT
>
>

Think back, Steve. You were complaining the VO had no type of
differentiating between styles. Your specific mention as I recall was
something of the ilk of the "... For Dummies" Books. So I added
user-defined blocks so post processors could separate out and specifically
format these blocks. Like Tips and Warnings.

Noel

--

------------------------------------------------------------------
  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

[Steve Litt]

On Sunday 18 October 2009 21:46:25 Noel Henson wrote:

> On Sunday 18 October 2009, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Sunday 18 October 2009 15:44:16 David J Patrick wrote:
> > > I'm just hoping to learn more about who uses user-defined text, and
> > > how.
> > >
> > > please to tell me!
> > > djp
> >
> > What's user defined text?
> >
> > STeveT
>
> Think back, Steve. You were complaining the VO had no type of
> differentiating between styles. Your specific mention as I recall was
> something of the ilk of the "... For Dummies" Books. So I added
> user-defined blocks so post processors could separate out and specifically
> format these blocks. Like Tips and Warnings.
>
> Noel

Oh That!!! So in other words I can self define my own styles and then
postprocess them into LyX or whatever? That's ultimately cool. Dillon Jones
has been advocating that since 2001. I guess I was unaware that we now have
that capability. I'll have to experiment with it now.

SteveT


--
Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt


_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

[Steve Litt]

On Sunday 18 October 2009 15:44:16 David J Patrick wrote:
> I'm just hoping to learn more about who uses user-defined text, and how.
>
> please to tell me!
> djp

I haven't yet because I wasn't aware we had it yet. I'll definitely be using it
when I write my new book, and I think I'll be starting a new book within 2
months, because "Thriving in Tough Times" is finished and selling well.

STeveT

Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt


_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

[Noel Henson]

On Sunday 18 October 2009, Steve Litt wrote:

> On Sunday 18 October 2009 21:46:25 Noel Henson wrote:
> > On Sunday 18 October 2009, Steve Litt wrote:
> > > On Sunday 18 October 2009 15:44:16 David J Patrick wrote:
> > > > I'm just hoping to learn more about who uses user-defined text,
> > > > and how.
> > > >
> > > > please to tell me!
> > > > djp
> > >
> > > What's user defined text?
> > >
> > > STeveT
> >
> > Think back, Steve. You were complaining the VO had no type of
> > differentiating between styles. Your specific mention as I recall was
> > something of the ilk of the "... For Dummies" Books. So I added
> > user-defined blocks so post processors could separate out and
> > specifically format these blocks. Like Tips and Warnings.
> >
> > Noel
>
> Oh That!!! So in other words I can self define my own styles and then
> postprocess them into LyX or whatever? That's ultimately cool. Dillon
> Jones has been advocating that since 2001. I guess I was unaware that we
> now have that capability. I'll have to experiment with it now.
>
> SteveT

You crack me up. That feature has been there for a long, long time. Just
for you. :) But I guess late feedback is better than none! ;)

Noel

--

------------------------------------------------------------------
  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

[David J Patrick-2]

Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sunday 18 October 2009 15:44:16 David J Patrick wrote:
>> I'm just hoping to learn more about who uses user-defined text, and how.
>>
>> please to tell me!
>> djp
>
> I haven't yet because I wasn't aware we had it yet. I'll definitely be using it
> when I write my new book,

Then, as the originator of the feature is not using it yet, can we say
that it is still open to refinement ? I know that how this might be used
is specific to the post processor(s), but it would be best if we could
agree on a standard usage pattern, so all of those post-processors could
line up on the same target.

I'm leaning strongly towards

<nothing, or just tabs><left
angle-bracket><space><something>[colon][something-else][more-than-one-space][#][comment-text]

as in

Heading
        < tip:Always try to simplify syntax   #any whitespace more than a
single space, before comment
        < warning:Not clearly establishing syntax can result in chaos
        < style:book
        < preamble   #it wouldn't HAVE to be a key:value pair
        : while no-one can/should/would be compelled to do anything,
        : if we could agree on one way to do it, then we could align
        : all the post-processors to work with that.
        : I'm pushing this so that we can all enjoy each others future
        : uses of this gem.


  and I think I'll be starting a new book within 2
> months, because "Thriving in Tough Times" is finished and selling well.
That's super-good news, Steve, glad to hear it.

djp
_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

[Noel Henson]

On Monday 19 October 2009, David J Patrick wrote:

> Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Sunday 18 October 2009 15:44:16 David J Patrick wrote:
> >> I'm just hoping to learn more about who uses user-defined text, and
> >> how.
> >>
> >> please to tell me!
> >> djp
> >
> > I haven't yet because I wasn't aware we had it yet. I'll definitely be
> > using it when I write my new book,
>
> Then, as the originator of the feature is not using it yet, can we say
> that it is still open to refinement ? I know that how this might be used
> is specific to the post processor(s), but it would be best if we could
> agree on a standard usage pattern, so all of those post-processors could
> line up on the same target.
>
> I'm leaning strongly towards
>
> <nothing, or just tabs><left
> angle-bracket><space><something>[colon][something-else][more-than-one-sp
>ace][#][comment-text]
>
> as in
>
> Heading
> < tip:Always try to simplify syntax   #any whitespace more than a
> single space, before comment
> < warning:Not clearly establishing syntax can result in chaos
> < style:book
> < preamble   #it wouldn't HAVE to be a key:value pair
> : while no-one can/should/would be compelled to do anything,
> : if we could agree on one way to do it, then we could align
> : all the post-processors to work with that.
> : I'm pushing this so that we can all enjoy each others future
> : uses of this gem.
>

For easy handling in vim and for post processing, the way it is implemented
now is the easiest way. Introducing whitespace between the delimiter and
the style could muck things up. But, I'm open to just about anything.

>   and I think I'll be starting a new book within 2
>
> > months, because "Thriving in Tough Times" is finished and selling
> > well.
>
> That's super-good news, Steve, glad to hear it.
>
> djp

Noel

--

------------------------------------------------------------------
  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

[David J Patrick-2]

David J Patrick wrote:
> <nothing, or just tabs><left
> angle-bracket><space><something>[colon][something-else][more-than-one-space][#][comment-text]
>

afterthought; in looking at this, and thinking about a longer "tip:", I
realize that a longer "tip:" would want _wrapping_ text, and why not ?

This could work just as well wrapping or non-wrapping, so the
afterthought would be to apply the behavior (if any) to both < and >
>
> as in
>
> Heading
>       < tip:Always try to simplify syntax   #any whitespace more than a
> single space, before comment
        > question:Sometimes, tips and warnings can be long enough to warrant
        > wrapping, but this raises questions, like, in this example,
        > where the following warning: is not connected, and the
        > subsequent style:book bit does _not_ want to wrap, where
        < should the angle-brackets point ?
>       > warning:Not clearly establishing syntax can result in chaos
>       < style:book
>       < preamble   #it wouldn't HAVE to be a key:value pair
>       : while no-one can/should/would be compelled to do anything,
>       : if we could agree on one way to do it, then we could align
>       : all the post-processors to work with that.
>       : I'm pushing this so that we can all enjoy each others future
>       : uses of this gem.

djp
_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

[David J Patrick-2]

Noel Henson wrote:
> For easy handling in vim and for post processing, the way it is implemented
> now is the easiest way. Introducing whitespace between the delimiter and
> the style could muck things up. But, I'm open to just about anything.

OK, I just like the space for legibility and consistency with other
elements, but if it's truly a source of annoyance... then we go with
what works.
djp
_______________________________________________
VimOutliner mailing list
VimOutliner@...
http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo