need some immediate help dealing with old DBs

[Glenn Tenney-2]

I've got a "sticky wicket" of a problem with which I need immediate help.
The 4D folks suggested emailing this list (it's been years since I've
been a member).

I run a conference every year.  About 20 years ago we started with 4D
Ver 1, then 2, and on up etc. and have stayed on 6.8.4 (don't ask, but
it keeps on working).

Next week is the 25th annual conference and I want to pull each
person's picture out of the old DBs into separate files. (For the
first 16 or so years I kept the pictures as a field in the DB, and
then switched later to keeping them as separate files). I've got a
script that runs just fine to do this on the DBs with the picture as a
field..

But, I've got two problems:

1) The first 10 or so years are older DB files and 6.8.4 won't convert
them.  When I get home I *might* still have an older version of 4D to
try to convert them, but...

Does anyone have a tool that WILL convert older 4D databases?

2) The last 12 years of DBs seem to be able to be converted by 6.8.4,
BUT... so far 5 or 6 in the middle SAY that they've converted and then
when I go to access them I get the error message:

  An attempt has been made to read or write beyond the end of
  a file.   FileL xyz.data
  The database cannot be used.



I'm seeking ANY help to get all of these converted so that I can just
run my script on them using my 6.8.4 (or find someone who can run my
script against the old DBs and extract the picture fields using
my script... it's a simple simple script).  I can't send you the DBs
because of personal privacy issues, though.


This is a work of love (i.e. not profit), but I"m willing to
pay something if necessary... if it works.


To complicate matters, today I'm available, but am in DC.  Then
I head back to Silicon Valley.  If I'm going to get this done,
it has to be done absolutely no later than November 4th.


Can anyone please help me out in any way?


Thank you.

--
Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM
**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[David Ringsmuth-3]

Glenn,

There are probably many people on this list that can step-over, work-around,
fix your corruption problems.

There are people on this list looking for work.

You should get a response soon.

You might want to re-package your request:

Platform (Mac/Windows)
4D Versions (6.8.4...)
Error(An attempt has been made to read or write beyond the end of a file.
FileL xyz.data
  The database cannot be used.)
Special conditions... (Pictures...)

Re: "I can't send you the DBs because of personal privacy issues, though."

Your level of need and the developer's ability to solve your problem quickly
may require that you send them your database.

Hth,
David Ringsmuth



-----Original Message-----
From: 4d_tech-bounces@... [mailto:4d_tech-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of Glenn Tenney
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:56 AM
To: 4d_tech@...
Subject: need some immediate help dealing with old DBs

I've got a "sticky wicket" of a .....


Can anyone please help me out in any way?


Thank you.

--
Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM

**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Glenn Tenney-2]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:20:28AM -0500, David Ringsmuth wrote:
> There are probably many people on this list that can step-over, work-around,
> fix your corruption problems.
>
> There are people on this list looking for work.

Thank you.   While not a large budget (I'd have to pay for this
out of my own pocket), I am not thinking this is a freebie!

> You might want to re-package your request:
>
> Platform (Mac/Windows)

Mac

> 4D Versions (6.8.4...)

Current version that I have.  The DBs were from earlier versions
as far back as version 1.

> Error(An attempt has been made to read or write beyond the end of a file.
> FileL xyz.data
>   The database cannot be used.)
> Special conditions... (Pictures...)

thanks.  And that's only for the 8 or 10 DBs that did convert with 6.8.4
THe older ones wouldn'e convert with this version

> Re: "I can't send you the DBs because of personal privacy issues, though."
>
> Your level of need and the developer's ability to solve your problem quickly
> may require that you send them your database.

I fully understand...

That's why I said that I'm in DC today, and Silicon Valley next week.

hoping to find someone to whom I can bring the DBs while they work on
it and then bring home the repaired versions.

--
Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM
**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[paul27]

Hi Glenn,

by convert did you mean you tried 6.8 4d tools?

regards,

Paul Medland




-----Original Message-----
From: 4d_tech-bounces@... on behalf of Glenn Tenney
Sent: Thu 10/29/2009 9:56 AM
To: 4d_tech@...
Subject: need some immediate help dealing with old DBs
 
I've got a "sticky wicket" of a problem with which I need immediate help.
The 4D folks suggested emailing this list (it's been years since I've
been a member).

I run a conference every year.  About 20 years ago we started with 4D
Ver 1, then 2, and on up etc. and have stayed on 6.8.4 (don't ask, but
it keeps on working).

Next week is the 25th annual conference and I want to pull each
person's picture out of the old DBs into separate files. (For the
first 16 or so years I kept the pictures as a field in the DB, and
then switched later to keeping them as separate files). I've got a
script that runs just fine to do this on the DBs with the picture as a
field..

But, I've got two problems:

1) The first 10 or so years are older DB files and 6.8.4 won't convert
them.  When I get home I *might* still have an older version of 4D to
try to convert them, but...

Does anyone have a tool that WILL convert older 4D databases?

2) The last 12 years of DBs seem to be able to be converted by 6.8.4,
BUT... so far 5 or 6 in the middle SAY that they've converted and then
when I go to access them I get the error message:

  An attempt has been made to read or write beyond the end of
  a file.   FileL xyz.data
  The database cannot be used.



I'm seeking ANY help to get all of these converted so that I can just
run my script on them using my 6.8.4 (or find someone who can run my
script against the old DBs and extract the picture fields using
my script... it's a simple simple script).  I can't send you the DBs
because of personal privacy issues, though.


This is a work of love (i.e. not profit), but I"m willing to
pay something if necessary... if it works.


To complicate matters, today I'm available, but am in DC.  Then
I head back to Silicon Valley.  If I'm going to get this done,
it has to be done absolutely no later than November 4th.


Can anyone please help me out in any way?


Thank you.

--
Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM
**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************


**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Peter Mew]

Hi
I can't get my head around this one
If I read 4 bytes from a file into a string variable, which I know are
supposed to represent a Longint
How do I turn those 4 bytes into a decimal number

Thanks for any help

-pm

**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Doug Cottrill]

Off the top of my head (no syntax check, etc)

$byte3:=ascii(mvar[1])
$byte2:=ascii(mvar[2])
$byte1:=ascii(mvar[3])
$byte0:=ascii(mvar[4])

$myLongint:=($byte3*(256*256*256))+($byte2*(256*256))+($byte1*256)+($byte0)

>Hi
>I can't get my head around this one
>If I read 4 bytes from a file into a string variable, which I know
>are supposed to represent a Longint
>How do I turn those 4 bytes into a decimal number
>
>Thanks for any help
>
>-pm
>**********************************************************************
>Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
>before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
>
>4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
>Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
>Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
>**********************************************************************

--
Doug Cottrill
PTM Software, LLC

**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Glenn Tenney-2]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:39:31AM -0500, Medland, Paul (QuickWire) wrote:
> by convert did you mean you tried 6.8 4d tools?

4D Tools says that it can not be used to convert old DBs, that
you have to use 4D itself.

So I open the DB with 4D; it tells me it's going to convert it
and it will no longer be usable with the old version;
then it gives me my normally expected "which user and password";
and when I give it the "Designer" password it accepts it and
THEN gives me the error I noted above.

Two of the dozen older DBs that 6.8.4 will "convert" have worked
fine.  I've only tried 5 or 6 others and those do not (they all
give that same error message) following the same "conversion"
procedure above.

Once "converted" (as above); and once I get that error message,
I have tried 4D Tools against that DB and it too gives the same
error message (after asking for and accepting the Designer's password).

Thank you.

--
Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM
**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Charles Miller-4]

Can you say data check anyone? I think you could open with data check,
export and the import to new data file

Regards

Chuck

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Glenn Tenney <gt-4d@...> wrote:

> I've got a "sticky wicket" of a problem with which I need immediate help.
> The 4D folks suggested emailing this list (it's been years since I've
> been a member).
>
> I run a conference every year.  About 20 years ago we started with 4D
> Ver 1, then 2, and on up etc. and have stayed on 6.8.4 (don't ask, but
> it keeps on working).
>
> Next week is the 25th annual conference and I want to pull each
> person's picture out of the old DBs into separate files. (For the
> first 16 or so years I kept the pictures as a field in the DB, and
> then switched later to keeping them as separate files). I've got a
> script that runs just fine to do this on the DBs with the picture as a
> field..
>
> But, I've got two problems:
>
> 1) The first 10 or so years are older DB files and 6.8.4 won't convert
> them.  When I get home I *might* still have an older version of 4D to
> try to convert them, but...
>
> Does anyone have a tool that WILL convert older 4D databases?
>
> 2) The last 12 years of DBs seem to be able to be converted by 6.8.4,
> BUT... so far 5 or 6 in the middle SAY that they've converted and then
> when I go to access them I get the error message:
>
>  An attempt has been made to read or write beyond the end of
>  a file.   FileL xyz.data
>  The database cannot be used.
>
>

**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[paul27]

Did you try the administrator password?
Shot in the dark, you never know.

Regards,

Paul



-----Original Message-----
From: 4d_tech-bounces@... on behalf of Glenn Tenney
Sent: Thu 10/29/2009 1:35 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical
Subject: Re: need some immediate help dealing with old DBs
 
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:39:31AM -0500, Medland, Paul (QuickWire) wrote:
> by convert did you mean you tried 6.8 4d tools?

4D Tools says that it can not be used to convert old DBs, that
you have to use 4D itself.

So I open the DB with 4D; it tells me it's going to convert it
and it will no longer be usable with the old version;
then it gives me my normally expected "which user and password";
and when I give it the "Designer" password it accepts it and
THEN gives me the error I noted above.

Two of the dozen older DBs that 6.8.4 will "convert" have worked
fine.  I've only tried 5 or 6 others and those do not (they all
give that same error message) following the same "conversion"
procedure above.

Once "converted" (as above); and once I get that error message,
I have tried 4D Tools against that DB and it too gives the same
error message (after asking for and accepting the Designer's password).

Thank you.

--
Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM
**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************


**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Glenn Tenney-2]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 03:14:21PM -0400, Charles Miller wrote:
> Can you say data check anyone? I think you could open with data check,
> export and the import to new data file

In version 6.8.4, 4D Tools will not convert the database, you have to use
4D itself to convert it.  After asking for the designer password and accepting
it, and before 4D says it's finished converting it, I get the error message about
reading or writing beyond the end of the file.

Going into 4D Tools at that point still gets the "can't convert the database"
message.

Now, once it does get converted (I've got a couple that did), then
4D Tools Data Check is available.  BUT not before.

Thanks for the thought.


--
Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM
**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Crissey, John (NIH/NIAID) [C]]

Hi Glenn,

Not sure if anyone has suggested this yet or not, but It's possible the structure file is corrupted.  You could try creating a new structure, then moving over all of the objects to the new structure using Insider or a similar tool?.  Once you get everything over to the new structure, the conversion may work.

John


On 10/29/09 3:27 PM, "Glenn Tenney" <gt-4d@...> wrote:

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 03:14:21PM -0400, Charles Miller wrote:
> Can you say data check anyone? I think you could open with data check,
> export and the import to new data file

In version 6.8.4, 4D Tools will not convert the database, you have to use
4D itself to convert it.  After asking for the designer password and accepting
it, and before 4D says it's finished converting it, I get the error message about
reading or writing beyond the end of the file.

Going into 4D Tools at that point still gets the "can't convert the database"
message.

Now, once it does get converted (I've got a couple that did), then
4D Tools Data Check is available.  BUT not before.

Thanks for the thought.


--
Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM
**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com


4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com


4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[James Wilson]

Hi Glenn,

Just a couple of thoughts, maybe something will help.

- Chuck referred to Data Check- this is a product separate from 4D, not part of 4D Tools. It's sold by Committed Software: http://www.committedsoftware.com/datacheck.html
It's considered an essential tool by many 4D developers, and I believe it's compatible with all 4D versions from 3.5 up to 2004. If your data files are damaged or corrupted Data Check may be the answer.

- You say 2 old dbs converted successfully, while others didn't. Are they all the same version, or do they vary? For example, were the successful conversions originally in 6 or 6.5, and the unsuccessful conversions in 4D 3.5? If so, you may need to convert through multiple versions (3.5 -> 6.0.6 -> 6.5 -> 6.8). This is generally recommended as a best practice, I think.

- You probably know this, but older versions of 4D won't run on OS 9 or Classic; if you need to open/convert version 1, 2, 3, and maybe 6 dbs, you need to do so on an old Mac (but maybe Data Check can be your friend here?)

- My experience with the very old versions of 4D is very limited, but maybe you can export the data from the datafile, and import in 6.8.4? I think you're interested in pictures, not number/string data, so this may not work.

Maybe something here will help; if not, sorry if it's just noise!

Good luck,
Jim

[Glenn Tenney-2]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 07:24:56AM -0700, James Wilson wrote:
> - Chuck referred to Data Check- this is a product separate from 4D, not part
> of 4D Tools. It's sold by Committed Software:
> http://www.committedsoftware.com/datacheck.html
> It's considered an essential tool by many 4D developers, and I believe it's
> compatible with all 4D versions from 3.5 up to 2004. If your data files are
> damaged or corrupted Data Check may be the answer.

Ahhhh... I didn't know.   Thank you.

Looking at their website, it talks about showing you problems with
data, but not about fixing those problems.   At $319, if it
solves my problem, that's fine... but if it's just going to tell
me there are problems, I'm not sure if it's worth that much.

So will this product actually fix data file errors or just report them?

Besides 4D itself is there any other way to convert an older DB to
a 6.8.4 version?

(I never had the 4D compiler etc., just developed and developed)


> - You say 2 old dbs converted successfully, while others didn't. Are they
> all the same version, or do they vary? For example, were the successful
> conversions originally in 6 or 6.5, and the unsuccessful conversions in 4D
> 3.5? If so, you may need to convert through multiple versions (3.5 -> 6.0.6
> -> 6.5 -> 6.8). This is generally recommended as a best practice, I think.

I don't know what version of 4D each was, but conference db #12 converted ok,
and then #17 converted ok but nothing in between converted ok (#12 is from
about 1996, and #17 is from about 2001).

The ones before 1996 were too old a DB for 6.8.4 to try to convert.

> - You probably know this, but older versions of 4D won't run on OS 9 or
> Classic; if you need to open/convert version 1, 2, 3, and maybe 6 dbs, you
> need to do so on an old Mac (but maybe Data Check can be your friend here?)

WHen I get home I'll dig out an old Mac running OS 9 and see if I can run the
older 4D's to try this -- but those older ones used key disks etc. so I'm
just hoping.

> - My experience with the very old versions of 4D is very limited, but maybe
> you can export the data from the datafile, and import in 6.8.4? I think
> you're interested in pictures, not number/string data, so this may not work.

My export script takes two text fields to form the resulting picture file's name,
and then the one picture field to be the resulting picture file.

I don't know how to export the datafile if I can't open it.  The data structure
did change a bit every year -- hopefully it was mainly adding new fields.

> Maybe something here will help; if not, sorry if it's just noise!

I'm open to ANY ideas!  Please keep 'em coming...

This weekend I'll give 'em all a try... to do anything that will work!

--
Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM
**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Peter Schumacher-2]

Glenn,

no. The oldest database I converted lately was a 4D v2.2.3 - biggest  
problem is to reactivate the  old Apple hardware.

1. Always use 4D Tools to check for errors and compact your data +  
structure
2. Open (copy of the) structure and data in the next higher verion (4D  
v3.5 in my case) -> MacOS 7 !!
3. 4D converts, shut down  4D, use 4D Tools, check+repair+compact ->  
MacOS 7 !!
4. open with 4D 6.0 ... use 4D Tools  -> MacOS 8.0 - nothing higher!!!
5. open with 4D 6.5 ... use 4D Tools  -> MacOS 8.0 - nothing higher!!!
6. open with 4D 6.8 ... use 4D Tools  -> MacOS 8.0 - nothing higher!!!
7. open with 4D 2003 ... use 4D Tools -> MacOSX 10.3/10.4
8. open with 4D 2004 ... use 4D Tools -> MacOSX 10.5 (I wouldn't use  
10.6)
With 4D Tools 2004 it is important, that you select "rebuild forms"  
and "repair structure" (even if 4D Tools doesn't report any problems)
9. open with 4D 11.4 ... use MSC -> MacOSX 10.5/10.6

You don't need full versions of 4D, the demo versions will do fine for  
the conversion. Additionally to 4D Tools you can use Datacheck, it  
works from v2 up to v2004. It's worth the money - and get SanityCheck,  
too. It will help you to find some nasty problems, and bought  
together, you will get a good deal.

Am 30.10.2009 um 17:46 schrieb Glenn Tenney:

> Besides 4D itself is there any other way to convert an older DB to
> a 6.8.4 version?

Greetings,
[4D-Consulting.com]eK, Wiesbaden (Germany)
Peter Schumacher
--------------------------------------------------------
Web: http://www.4D-Consulting.com/
FreeCall:  0800-434 636 7
Tel.:      [phone] - Fax: [phone]
4D-Consulting.com eK - Scharnhorststr. 36 - 65195 Wiesbaden
Member of the German Developer Network  http://www.die4dwerkstatt.de









**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Ben Kershaw-3]

Glenn Tenney wrote:

>At $319, if it solves my problem, that's fine...
>but if it's just going to tell me there are problems,
>I'm not sure if it's worth that much.

Smoke detectors don't put out fires, but many people still find them useful.

DataCheck will tell you if you have problems, but it will be as specific as it can be. For example, it will tell you:

* If you have a bad index and which one it is (so you can rebuild it)
* If the the data type in the record doesn't match the structure (so you can resave and cleanup the data)
* If you have gremlins in the data (so you can clean it).

... etc, etc.

Without something like DataCheck, how would you know what to fix?

Regards,
Ben Kershaw

**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com


4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Glenn Tenney-2]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 01:42:34PM -0400, Ben Kershaw wrote:

> >At $319, if it solves my problem, that's fine...
> >but if it's just going to tell me there are problems,
> >I'm not sure if it's worth that much.
>
> Smoke detectors don't put out fires, but many people still find them useful.
>
> DataCheck will tell you if you have problems, but it will be as specific as it can be. For example, it will tell you:
>
> * If you have a bad index and which one it is (so you can rebuild it)
> * If the the data type in the record doesn't match the structure (so you can resave and cleanup the data)
> * If you have gremlins in the data (so you can clean it).
>
> ... etc, etc.
>
> Without something like DataCheck, how would you know what to fix?

Hey, I'm all in favor of finding out what to fix...  And spending the $319
if it puts me on the path to solving these problems.


But since I can't open the database in 4D Tools (because it gives the same error
message), I can't rebuild any index or have 4D Tools fix anything.

Am I expected to use emacs to edit the data file to fix the data errors
found by Data Check?   If Data Check tells me that level of what needs
to be fixed, then fine!   But if I don't get enough information to be
able to actually fix it, I'm still stuck.

--
Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM
**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Chuck Miller-2]

It can repair some problems. It can also export records for you which  
you can then import into an empty data file.

You can even choose which table to export

Regards

Chuck
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Miller                          Voice: [phone]
Informed Solutions, Inc.              Fax: [phone]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------





On Oct 30, 2009, at 12:46 PM, Glenn Tenney wrote:

> So will this product actually fix data file errors or just report  
> them?
>
> Besides 4D itself is there any other way to convert an older DB to
> a 6.8.4 version?

**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Chip Scheide]

I believe - someone can correct me
in a worst case scenario - you can get the data OUT of a data file
using DataCheck
 
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:49:44 -0700, Glenn Tenney wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 01:42:34PM -0400, Ben Kershaw wrote:
>>> At $319, if it solves my problem, that's fine...
>>> but if it's just going to tell me there are problems,
>>> I'm not sure if it's worth that much.
>>
>> Smoke detectors don't put out fires, but many people still find them
>> useful.
>>
>> DataCheck will tell you if you have problems, but it will be as
>> specific as it can be. For example, it will tell you:
>>
>> * If you have a bad index and which one it is (so you can rebuild it)
>> * If the the data type in the record doesn't match the structure (so
>> you can resave and cleanup the data)
>> * If you have gremlins in the data (so you can clean it).
>>
>> ... etc, etc.
>>
>> Without something like DataCheck, how would you know what to fix?
>
>
> Hey, I'm all in favor of finding out what to fix...  And spending the $319
> if it puts me on the path to solving these problems.
>
>
> But since I can't open the database in 4D Tools (because it gives the
> same error
> message), I can't rebuild any index or have 4D Tools fix anything.
>
> Am I expected to use emacs to edit the data file to fix the data errors
> found by Data Check?   If Data Check tells me that level of what needs
> to be fixed, then fine!   But if I don't get enough information to be
> able to actually fix it, I'm still stuck.
>
> --
> Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM
> **********************************************************************
> Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
> before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
>    
>
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
> **********************************************************************
>

**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Robert McKeever]

DataCheck can also export records to be imported into a new datafile  
with a compatible structure. I have had 4D Tools not recover wholesale  
chunks of perfectly valid data, while I was able to recover it with  
DataCheck.

A most valuable tool, and I hope it gets updated for V11.

On Oct 30, 2009, at 10:42 AM, Ben Kershaw wrote:

> Glenn Tenney wrote:
>
>> At $319, if it solves my problem, that's fine...
>> but if it's just going to tell me there are problems,
>> I'm not sure if it's worth that much.
>
> Smoke detectors don't put out fires, but many people still find them  
> useful.
>
> DataCheck will tell you if you have problems, but it will be as  
> specific as it can be. For example, it will tell you:
>
> * If you have a bad index and which one it is (so you can rebuild it)
> * If the the data type in the record doesn't match the structure (so  
> you can resave and cleanup the data)
> * If you have gremlins in the data (so you can clean it).
>
> ... etc, etc.
>
> Without something like DataCheck, how would you know what to fix?
>
> Regards,
> Ben Kershaw
>
> **********************************************************************
> Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
> before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
>
>
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
> **********************************************************************

_________________________________________
Bob McKeever                      http://www.mswl.com
McKeever's Software Wizardry
Maple Ridge, B.C.
bobmckeever@...



**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************

[Glenn Tenney-2]

At 6:37 PM +0100 10/30/09, Peter Schumacher wrote:

>no. The oldest database I converted lately was a 4D v2.2.3 - biggest
>problem is to reactivate the  old Apple hardware.
>
>1. Always use 4D Tools to check for errors and compact your data + structure
>2. Open (copy of the) structure and data in the next higher verion
>(4D v3.5 in my case) -> MacOS 7 !!
>3. 4D converts, shut down  4D, use 4D Tools, check+repair+compact ->
>MacOS 7 !!
>...
>You don't need full versions of 4D, the demo versions will do fine
>for the conversion. Additionally to 4D Tools you can use Datacheck,
>it works from v2 up to v2004. It's worth the money - and get
>SanityCheck, too. It will help you to find some nasty problems, and
>bought together, you will get a good deal.

So... The older Mac I was able to bring up is running os 9.  I found
my 4D 3.5.3 CD and serial number, and tried and tried to install it.
It had already been installed on that machine I believe -- during the
install process, when telling it to use the electronic registration
process it said it was already licensed and knew the serial number.

BUT, when launching 4D it asks me to insert "Disk 1" (even though I
installed from the 4D 3.5.3 Products original CD ROM, and there is
not physical disk 1.  So, I can never get 4D to run on this machine.

There also appears to be NO demo mode or older demo versions.

So, I still have these old DBs (ok, a couple might be from 4D ver 1,
I know a few are 4D ver 2, and then up from there) that I can't
access yet.

Any ideas?

Thanks

--
Glenn Tenney CISSP CISM
**********************************************************************
Get the speed and power of 4D v11 SQL
before upgrade prices increase - http://www.4d.com
   

4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4D.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4D_Tech-Unsubscribe@...
**********************************************************************