offer letter questions

[6c.61.64.79.33.6a.61.6e.65]

while i have worked on a contract basis before, i recently received my
first offer letter/contract from a sub-contractor and have some concerns
i am hoping some of you more experienced in this area maybe be able to
shed some light on. i have read the syngress book infosec career hacking
which has, what i thought to be, some excellent directives yet, it falls
short for me in this area. as well, i have spoken with a family member
who has many years in a consulting role however, not in the infosec
industry.


concerns include:
- the discussions were of a 1099 arrangement whereas, the offer letter
is for w2.
- the liability clause has my liability at a higher day rate than i
would be earning. is this normal?
- this opportunity involves 80-100% travel yet, there is no mention of
the sub-contractor's responsibility for handling these matters.
- the position is "in the middle of nowhere" and as of yet, there is no
mention of a rental car.
- this sub-contractor has stated that i would have to purchase the first
plane ticket which, sounds fishy, no?
- there will be shared living quarters and i have not shared a living
space with others in over five years. this was not mentioned at all
throughout the discussions until just recently in a passing
conversation.while i do think it could be fun to room with people
(especially security folk) again, this is a real unknown. it could have
a negative impact my performance but, may just as well have a positive
impact upon it.

on the contracts i've been on before, the client had arranged and payed
for airfare, hotel and car rental.


the pros of the opportunity include:
- full time security work as, i am trying to get away from the admin role.
- enterprise class experience which, i have very little of and huge
attraction to the opportunity
- short term with the possibility to extend length or offer
- last and least important for me, the money is good yet, the agreed
upon rate did not factor in the above concerns

while i really hunger for the experience (#1 career incentive for me), i
am uncertain how to address these concerns.


any insight into this matter is greatly appreciated.

[Joe_Wulf]

Being on the same page is vital.  If you've had DISCUSSIONS and the offer letter
has substantial differences, then you are remiss if you simply sign and 'expect'
things to get any better.  However, the RISK you take, is that if you bring the
issues up for discussion and renegotiation, then they MAY brand you as a
troublemaker and drop the offer.  In my opinion, should they drop you because
you DID discuss things further, then you are better off not having wasted your
time on this 'opportunity' that wasn't on the up-and-up.

I'd recommend you bring your itemized list of concerns to their attention.  Call
them up and express a desire to meet with them again, in person, face to face.
Be brief and positive in arranging the meeting, so that you can address your
concerns in person, and not be blown off over the phone.  Discuss EACH point you
feel has not been properly addressed in the offer letter to your satisfaction.
Bring your notes of the previous discussions, and remind them of WHO said WHAT.
Ask questions to understand THEIR point of view.  Do not argue, do not fight.
Keep your tone of voice positive, remain upbeat.

I'd suspect the person(s) you'd talked with and discussed all these things with
MIGHT not be the same ones who'd issued the offer letter, resulting in the
disparity you've identified.  Presume these are legitimate issues to bring up
for discussion, let them see your professionalism in this early example of where
some things went wrong.  Give them another opportunity to see how you act, react
and interact........ give them the warm fuzzy you were not only the right choice
for the position they offered you, but in addressing this situation as you are
going to is further PROOF they are right.

Good luck, and I'm hopeful you'll write back with the outcome (good or bad).
Share your lessons learned, please.
 
R,
-Joe Wulf, CISSP, USN (RET)
 ProSync Technology Group, LLC
 www.prosync.com
 Senior IA Engineer

-----Original Message-----
From: 6c.61.64.79.33.6a.61.6e.65@...
[mailto:6c.61.64.79.33.6a.61.6e.65@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 12:55
To: securityjobs-discussion@...
Subject: offer letter questions

while i have worked on a contract basis before, i recently received my first
offer letter/contract from a sub-contractor and have some concerns i am hoping
some of you more experienced in this area maybe be able to shed some light on. i
have read the syngress book infosec career hacking which has, what i thought to
be, some excellent directives yet, it falls short for me in this area. as well,
i have spoken with a family member who has many years in a consulting role
however, not in the infosec industry.


concerns include:
- the discussions were of a 1099 arrangement whereas, the offer letter is for
w2.
- the liability clause has my liability at a higher day rate than i would be
earning. is this normal?
- this opportunity involves 80-100% travel yet, there is no mention of the
sub-contractor's responsibility for handling these matters.
- the position is "in the middle of nowhere" and as of yet, there is no mention
of a rental car.
- this sub-contractor has stated that i would have to purchase the first plane
ticket which, sounds fishy, no?
- there will be shared living quarters and i have not shared a living space with
others in over five years. this was not mentioned at all throughout the
discussions until just recently in a passing conversation.while i do think it
could be fun to room with people (especially security folk) again, this is a
real unknown. it could have a negative impact my performance but, may just as
well have a positive impact upon it.

on the contracts i've been on before, the client had arranged and payed for
airfare, hotel and car rental.


the pros of the opportunity include:
- full time security work as, i am trying to get away from the admin role.
- enterprise class experience which, i have very little of and huge attraction
to the opportunity
- short term with the possibility to extend length or offer
- last and least important for me, the money is good yet, the agreed upon rate
did not factor in the above concerns

while i really hunger for the experience (#1 career incentive for me), i am
uncertain how to address these concerns.


any insight into this matter is greatly appreciated.

[mr.nasty]

Lots of good concerns.  Before proceeding further you should get your concerns answered in writing.  You don't want to be left in the middle of no-where, pennyless.

I'm not a sub-contractor.  I earn a salary and I contract my services on the side.  I've never been a sub-contractor but I've also never had to buy my own airfare for a job.  All my expenses are paid up front.  This is from my past experience.

[diegoeskryptic]

hello sir.

Im a newbie to security management and I watch the list stricly for learning
purposes. I was just wondering how did you respond to the job offer. Could
you please share your lessons learned, please? Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: <6c.61.64.79.33.6a.61.6e.65@...>
To: <securityjobs-discussion@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 12:54 PM
Subject: offer letter questions

> while i have worked on a contract basis before, i recently received my
> first offer letter/contract from a sub-contractor and have some concerns
> i am hoping some of you more experienced in this area maybe be able to
> shed some light on. i have read the syngress book infosec career hacking
> which has, what i thought to be, some excellent directives yet, it falls
> short for me in this area. as well, i have spoken with a family member
> who has many years in a consulting role however, not in the infosec
> industry.
>
>
> concerns include:
> - the discussions were of a 1099 arrangement whereas, the offer letter
> is for w2.
> - the liability clause has my liability at a higher day rate than i
> would be earning. is this normal?
> - this opportunity involves 80-100% travel yet, there is no mention of
> the sub-contractor's responsibility for handling these matters.
> - the position is "in the middle of nowhere" and as of yet, there is no
> mention of a rental car.
> - this sub-contractor has stated that i would have to purchase the first
> plane ticket which, sounds fishy, no?
> - there will be shared living quarters and i have not shared a living
> space with others in over five years. this was not mentioned at all
> throughout the discussions until just recently in a passing
> conversation.while i do think it could be fun to room with people
> (especially security folk) again, this is a real unknown. it could have
> a negative impact my performance but, may just as well have a positive
> impact upon it.
>
> on the contracts i've been on before, the client had arranged and payed
> for airfare, hotel and car rental.
>
>
> the pros of the opportunity include:
> - full time security work as, i am trying to get away from the admin role.
> - enterprise class experience which, i have very little of and huge
> attraction to the opportunity
> - short term with the possibility to extend length or offer
> - last and least important for me, the money is good yet, the agreed
> upon rate did not factor in the above concerns
>
> while i really hunger for the experience (#1 career incentive for me), i
> am uncertain how to address these concerns.
>
>
> any insight into this matter is greatly appreciated.
>
>

[6c.61.64.79.33.6a.61.6e.65]

i had been meaning to write back and have just been a bit busy so, thank
you for prompting me to take some time to do so.

i did wind up accepting the offer only after my largest concern had been
addressed. most of the other issues were either dealt with indirectly or
did not factor into my decision heavily. i will try to explain how i
wound up trying to sort out my concerns as well as some of the results.

i began by attempting to call to arrange a face-to-face 2nd meeting (as
suggested) which, didn't work out. after receiving a few calls to
discuss other opportunities (as they say, when it rains it pours) and
not yet hearing back from the sub-contractor, i put together a simple
e-mail clearly spelling out all of my concerns in the hopes that i would
be able to get back simple answers in writing. this e-mail was followed
up with a return phone call in which we were able to hash out enough
details for me to sign the contract.

- the w2 vs. 1099 was a minor one for me. the duration of the contract
did not warrant much bother. the sub-contractor did offer to reimburse
me in whole for any costs associated to incorporating should i want to
do a corp. to corp. contract. i declined the offer and went w2.

- i dealt with my concern about the liability clause by simply thinking
the worst case scenarios through. i would never do anything to put
myself in the position for the clause to come into effect. as well, no
matter how bad it was, all i was bound to was two weeks notice which, is
pretty standard anyway.

- the stopping point for me in these negotiations was without question,
my concerns surrounding travel responsibility. i explained that i would
incur the expense of the first nor any other successive flights. the
sub-contractor wound up booking my flight and sending me my itinerary.
now i have access to a travel portal with which i am able to search for
and book my own flights and cars which is billed directly to the primary
contractor.

- unfortunately, as i had anticipated, the shared living turned out to
be a disaster. one of the guys i first roomed with incessant used his
phone in common areas of the house, left mess and turned up the heat to
unbearable levels among other things. this guy was so weird, the other
roommate up and left to stay in another house. at one point i was
convinced that he was the entertainment expense. this didn't last long
as, his skill set and interpersonal skills (or lack of i should say) was
deemed to be a liability to the contract from most of the team and he
was not invited back the following week. i'll have new roommates this
week so, this is still somewhat of an open issue.


what i have received thus far:

- access to a very user friendly and flexible travel portal

- niche compliance experience with one of the largest international
organizations

- some excellent networking with a skilled and fun group of professionals

- strong indication that the contract will be extended and/or a perm
offer made

- my first check!

hoping this helps



diegoeskryptic@... wrote:

> hello sir.
>
> Im a newbie to security management and I watch the list stricly for learning
> purposes. I was just wondering how did you respond to the job offer. Could
> you please share your lessons learned, please? Thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <6c.61.64.79.33.6a.61.6e.65@...>
> To: <securityjobs-discussion@...>
> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 12:54 PM
> Subject: offer letter questions
>
>
>
>>while i have worked on a contract basis before, i recently received my
>>first offer letter/contract from a sub-contractor and have some concerns
>>i am hoping some of you more experienced in this area maybe be able to
>>shed some light on. i have read the syngress book infosec career hacking
>>which has, what i thought to be, some excellent directives yet, it falls
>>short for me in this area. as well, i have spoken with a family member
>>who has many years in a consulting role however, not in the infosec
>>industry.
>>
>>
>>concerns include:
>>- the discussions were of a 1099 arrangement whereas, the offer letter
>>is for w2.
>>- the liability clause has my liability at a higher day rate than i
>>would be earning. is this normal?
>>- this opportunity involves 80-100% travel yet, there is no mention of
>>the sub-contractor's responsibility for handling these matters.
>>- the position is "in the middle of nowhere" and as of yet, there is no
>>mention of a rental car.
>>- this sub-contractor has stated that i would have to purchase the first
>>plane ticket which, sounds fishy, no?
>>- there will be shared living quarters and i have not shared a living
>>space with others in over five years. this was not mentioned at all
>>throughout the discussions until just recently in a passing
>>conversation.while i do think it could be fun to room with people
>>(especially security folk) again, this is a real unknown. it could have
>>a negative impact my performance but, may just as well have a positive
>>impact upon it.
>>
>>on the contracts i've been on before, the client had arranged and payed
>>for airfare, hotel and car rental.
>>
>>
>>the pros of the opportunity include:
>>- full time security work as, i am trying to get away from the admin role.
>>- enterprise class experience which, i have very little of and huge
>>attraction to the opportunity
>>- short term with the possibility to extend length or offer
>>- last and least important for me, the money is good yet, the agreed
>>upon rate did not factor in the above concerns
>>
>>while i really hunger for the experience (#1 career incentive for me), i
>>am uncertain how to address these concerns.
>>
>>
>>any insight into this matter is greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>
>
>