Nabble - openbsd port - alpha

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2009-12-07T07:35:10Z

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2009-12-06T20:48:31Z

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2009-12-05T15:53:36Z

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2009-12-02T23:27:27Z

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2009-11-30T23:41:07Z

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2009-11-27T14:20:24Z

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2009-11-27T11:28:34Z

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2009-11-12T16:13:10Z

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Re: Tom told me that you might be interested in this

2009-11-12T06:01:49Z

Hi Jack!
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MIXRIOT NEWS - NOV 12TH, 2009 - SASHA CLASSIC ESSENTIAL MIX

2009-11-11T23:48:21Z

MIXRIOT NEWS - NOV 12TH, 2009

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MIXRIOT NEWS - NOV 9TH, 2009 - SASHA CLASSIC ESSENTIAL MIX

2009-11-09T19:27:16Z

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2009-11-02T14:17:23Z

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---

GREAT SUCCESS OF JACARONI JYI 64rs

2009-10-28T11:34:26Z

[IMAGE]

LEGGI LA VERSIONE ITALIANA | READ ENGLISH VERSION

ENGLISH

[IMAGE]Huge success and interest around the newly-born, totally custom
JYI64RS, created by Jacaroni Yacht International. Also at the Genoa's
49th International Boat Show â after her September presentation at
Cannes' Festival de la Plaisance â sea lovers and the ilite in this
sector's economy were left speechless before the sumptuous sailing yacht.
The boat, made in composite, is especially conceived for those who love
dynamism and freedom and based on an accurate choice of the materials,
safety, comfort and respect for the environment.. The JYI64RS is an Ocean
Cruiser, designed to go around the world in luxury. She immediately
ranked at the top of the international yachting market.
The yacht has unique sea-keeping and safety-on-board characteristics: she
is equipped with an internal steering with joystick and two external
steering posts; she has a semi-automatised sailing plan, four cabins,
four bathrooms and a very spacious and bright saloon, organised in
different levels. Her revolutionary project and concept are made even
more valuable by advanced technological solutions.
âJacaroni Yachtsâ is an Italian group designing and building maxi- and
mega Yachts, totally custom, giving the unique opportunity to make each
single detail personal. They love rediscovering the past and offering
fascinating timeless yachts.
The new custom JYI64RS has a l.o.a of 20m, 4 cabins/4 bathrooms,
automatised sailing plan ( technology from New Zealand) with Leisurefurl
Boom for main sail, self-tacking genoa and electric gennaker; highly
optimised propulsion system, designed to reach an average speed of 9kn
with an extremely low fuel consumption; hand-made teak deck; cockpit
table with integrated screen, keyboard and engine panel; Raymarine
G-series multimedia and navigation system.
The triple-tension electric system has an integrated control of CAN BUS
systems and she is also equipped with a Faraday gauge and water chilled
climate control system with integrated fuel tank..
The JYI64RS has a highly refined bow, double chain with
âeasy-maneuveringâchain release system, bow thruster and electronic
propulsion control.
The stern main cabin has a queen-size berth and leather couch, Indonesian
teak in the bathroom, separate shower stall, table with chair. Twin bow
cabins with side double berths and private bathroom, shared shower.
Central fourth cabin with two berths for the crew. Internet area with
leather seat and bar underneath internal steering, âterrace-on-the-seaâ
raised saloon.
In a world of dreams, the reality of luxury!

TOP

------------------------------------------------------------------------

ITALIANO

[IMAGE]Inarrestabile il successo e l'interesse della nuova meraviglia
creata dalla Jacaroni Yacht International: il JYI 64 RS custom 2009.
Anche al 490 Salone Nautico Internazionale di Genova - dopo la
consacrazione di settembre al 32esimo Festival International de la
Plaisance de Cannes - gli appassionati di are e l'elite dell'economia di
settore sono rimasti senza parole davanti alla sontuosit` del lussuoso
yacht a vela. Con costruzione in composito, l'imbarcazione, pensata per
chi ama la libert` e il dinamismo, ha come guide principali la
navigazione in pieno comfort e sicurezza, l'accuratezza nella scelta dei
materiali e il pieno rispetto dellâambiente. Jyi 64 RS h un Ocean
Cruiser, yacht da giro del mondo e grande creazione di lusso per gli
appassionati velisti, si h immediatamente collocato al top del mercato
nautico internazionale.
Lo yacht, dalle insuperabili doti di âsea-keepingâ, di âsafety on boardâ,
h provvisto di una timoniera interna con joystick e due timonerie
esterne; presenta un sistema semi-automatico per la gestione del piano
velico, quattro cabine, quattro bagni e un salone centrale molto
luminoso, disposto su piani diversi. Combinazioni di tecnologie si
rafforzano lâuna con lâaltra allâinterno di unâimbarcazione dal concept e
dalle soluzioni progettuali rivoluzionarie.
Da sempre, la âJacaroni Yachtsâ, Gruppo italiano che disegna e realizza
maxi-yachts e mega-yachts, privilegia costruire imbarcazioni custom,
personalizzabili in ogni minimo particolare. Ama riscoprire il passato e
riproporre imbarcazioni dal fascino senza tempo.
JYI 64 RS custom 2009 ha una lunghezza di 20 m, quattro cabine/quattro
bagni, piano velico automatizzato (tecnologia neozelandese) con randa su
Leisurefurl boom, genoa autovirante e gennaker rollabile elettricamente;
impianto propulsivo ad elevata efficienza ottimizzato per raggiungere una
velocit` di crociera di 9 nodi con consumi molto ridotti; ponte e coperta
in teak con doghe lavorate a mano; tavolo del pozzetto con monitor,
tastiera e pannello motore integrati; sistema multimediale e di
navigazione Raymarine G-series. L'impianto elettrico a tripla tensione
con controllo integrato degli impianti CAN BUS, sistema di protezione
antifulmine con schermatura completa a gabbia di Faraday;
impianto di climatizzazione water chilled differenziale e caldaia a
gasolio integrata.
JYI 64 RS custom 2009 possiede un musone di prua con lavorazioni di
pregio, doppia ancora con controllo âeasy-manouveringâ di rilascio
catena, bow thruster e comandi elettronici per la propulsione.
Armatoriale di poppa - e siamo agli interni - con letto Queen size e
divanetto di pelle, bagno con arredamento in teak indonesiano, locale
doccia separato e tavolo di scrittura con sedia. Cabine simmetriche di
prua con letto matrimoniale a murata e bagno dedicato, locale doccia
condiviso. Quarta cabina a centro nave con due cuccette per l'equipaggio.
Area Internet con poltrona in pelle e mobile bar sotto la timoneria
interna, salone rialzato con vista sul mare âterrace on the seaâ.
In un mare di sogni, la realt` di un lusso!

TOP

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ai sensi del D.Lgs 196/2003 La informiamo che il Suo indirizzo e-mail h
stato reperito attraverso fonti di pubblico dominio o attraverso e-mail o
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desiderate sia immediatamente rimosso dalla mailing list. Tendiamo ad
evitare fastidiosi invii multipli, ma laddove cir avvenisse, La preghiamo
di segnalarcelo e ce ne scusiamo sin d'ora. Grazie.

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Re: dec alpha, Xorg and Matrox Millenium does not work

2009-10-26T07:48:56Z

I tried many OSes, and only with Gentoo Linux was I able to get X working
on my DS10 with a Matrox Millenium card. Works quite well, there's even a
port of Firefox. Debian will likely work as well.

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009, Don Wilburn wrote:

> Dear Alpha list,
>
> I installed OpenBSD 4.6 (the latest stable release?) on a retired Personal
> Workstation 500au at work. The rules say I should include a dmesg report,
> but the floppy apparently can't be used with this hardware and I don't have a
> good way to get it to you. So, I'll try to include pertinent info.
>
> This is an IDE-only PWS that orginally came with Windows NT. OpenBSD
> installed fine, but X doesn't work. The video card is a Matrox Millenium
> that came with the computer.
> The OpenBSD documentation says the Millenium will work with
> Option "NoInt10" "true"
> in the xorg.conf file, but that didn't work. The Xorg.0.log does show that
> option is being used.
>
> The messages that catch my eye in Xorg.0.log are:
> (partial line)... BIOS @ 0x????????/65536
> (WW) MGA(0): Could not retrieve video BIOS?
> (EE) MGA(0): Unable to map BAR 0. Invalid argument (22)
>
> The last one is repeated again at the end of the log, so I'm guessing it's
> the worst.
> An internet search for that BAR 0 message brings up other people's problems
> with X, but they usually seem to be related to dual monitor setups. I only
> have one.
>
> A pcidump shows an address for an option ROM in that slot, but I don't know
> if that's the video card BIOS or something else. Maybe that doesn't matter?
>
> I'm no hacker or hardware guru. This is all voodoo magic to me. I'm just
> grasping at straws, hoping to find something to make X work. If anyone is
> reading this and can offer some advice, I'd be grateful.
>
> Thanks, DW
>

--
Jim Faulkner / james.faulkner@...
Systems Administrator, Linux Systems Design & Support (LSDS)
Yale University Information Technology Services (ITS)
===============================================================
NOTE: Yale ITS will NEVER request passwords or other personal
information via email. Messages requesting such information are
fraudulent and should be deleted.

Re: dec alpha, Xorg and Matrox Millenium does not work

2009-10-25T08:53:40Z

Don Wilburn wrote:
> Dear Alpha list,
>
> I installed OpenBSD 4.6 (the latest stable release?) on a retired
> Personal Workstation 500au at work. The rules say I should include a
> dmesg report, but the floppy apparently can't be used with this hardware
> and I don't have a good way to get it to you. So, I'll try to include
> pertinent info.

X doesn't work anymore on PCI VGA cards in alpha machines. Only TGA
framebuffers are supported for now.

This is caused by the move to libpciaccess to handle all PCI bus
accesses in X. Libpciaccess does not know about the specific issues of
PCI on alpha.

Something needs to be done in the kernel to hide those details from
userland.

>
> This is an IDE-only PWS that orginally came with Windows NT. OpenBSD
> installed fine, but X doesn't work. The video card is a Matrox
> Millenium that came with the computer.
> The OpenBSD documentation says the Millenium will work with
> Option "NoInt10" "true"
> in the xorg.conf file, but that didn't work. The Xorg.0.log does show
> that option is being used.
>
> The messages that catch my eye in Xorg.0.log are:
> (partial line)... BIOS @ 0x????????/65536
> (WW) MGA(0): Could not retrieve video BIOS?
> (EE) MGA(0): Unable to map BAR 0. Invalid argument (22)
>
> The last one is repeated again at the end of the log, so I'm guessing
> it's the worst.
> An internet search for that BAR 0 message brings up other people's
> problems with X, but they usually seem to be related to dual monitor
> setups. I only have one.
>
> A pcidump shows an address for an option ROM in that slot, but I don't
> know if that's the video card BIOS or something else. Maybe that
> doesn't matter?
>
> I'm no hacker or hardware guru. This is all voodoo magic to me. I'm
> just grasping at straws, hoping to find something to make X work. If
> anyone is reading this and can offer some advice, I'd be grateful.
>
> Thanks, DW
>

--
Matthieu Herrb

dec alpha, Xorg and Matrox Millenium does not work

2009-10-25T07:25:24Z

Dear Alpha list,

I installed OpenBSD 4.6 (the latest stable release?) on a retired
Personal Workstation 500au at work. The rules say I should include a
dmesg report, but the floppy apparently can't be used with this hardware
and I don't have a good way to get it to you. So, I'll try to include
pertinent info.

This is an IDE-only PWS that orginally came with Windows NT. OpenBSD
installed fine, but X doesn't work. The video card is a Matrox
Millenium that came with the computer.
The OpenBSD documentation says the Millenium will work with
Option "NoInt10" "true"
in the xorg.conf file, but that didn't work. The Xorg.0.log does show
that option is being used.

The messages that catch my eye in Xorg.0.log are:
(partial line)... BIOS @ 0x????????/65536
(WW) MGA(0): Could not retrieve video BIOS?
(EE) MGA(0): Unable to map BAR 0. Invalid argument (22)

The last one is repeated again at the end of the log, so I'm guessing
it's the worst.
An internet search for that BAR 0 message brings up other people's
problems with X, but they usually seem to be related to dual monitor
setups. I only have one.

A pcidump shows an address for an option ROM in that slot, but I don't
know if that's the video card BIOS or something else. Maybe that
doesn't matter?

I'm no hacker or hardware guru. This is all voodoo magic to me. I'm
just grasping at straws, hoping to find something to make X work. If
anyone is reading this and can offer some advice, I'd be grateful.

Thanks, DW

-= Предлагаем Вам самые лучшие рассылки по Украине =-

2009-10-18T15:21:28Z

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pejnlemdsel bnqonk|gnb`r|q hu sqksc`lh rnk|jn ndhm p`g, dk rncn wrna{ B{
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Eqkh B{ g`j`g{b`kh p`qq{kjs me s m`q h nm` me ophmeqk` B`l fek`elncn }ttejr` -
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Onqrnmmne namnbkemhe a`g.

Oph jnlokejqmnl g`j`ge, ondrbepfdemmnl qnnrberqrbs~yei nok`rni, deiqrbs~r qjhdjh.

L{ opnbndhl nr 3 dn 10 j`weqrbemm{u p`qq{knj b qsrjh.

Hgcnrnbkemh l`jer` p`qq{kjh bundhr b qrnhlnqr|.
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Opednqr`bkel kswxhi b Ebpnoe `asgnsqrniwhb{i unqrhmc dk q`irnb, sj`g{b`el{u b p`qq{kj`u.

L{ ophmhl`el bqe bhd{ nok`r, bjk~w` aegm`khwm{i p`qwer.
Bnglnfmn g`jk~wemhe dnkcnqpnwm{u ungiqrbemm{u dncnbnpnb.
On njnmw`mhh p`qq{kjh on rpeanb`mh~ jkhemr` opednqr`bk~rq `jr{ b{onkmemm{u p`anr.

BOEPB[E B SJP@HME! Oph g`j`ge p`qq{kjh aeqok`rmn opednqr`bkel qepbhq hmdhbhds`k|mni
oepe`dpeq`vhh dk j`fdncn onksw`rek ohq|l` (onksw`rek| p`qq{kjh onksw`er smhj`k|m{i
khmj, bedsyhi m` B`x q`ir). R`jhl nap`gnl, B`x q`ir me g`jpn~r onqke onkswemh f`kna{.

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B[AHP@IRE - KSWXEE !

From Microsoft (Email Winning Notification) (Contact Paying Bank)

2009-10-04T18:50:59Z

***********************************DO NOT DELETE THIS
MESSAGE**********************

Microsoft Corporation
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Microsoft Corporation wishes to congratulate you for being one of the lucky
winners in this freelotto summer destiny email cash award program. With the
introduction of
new types of games, with the ushering in of on-line technology and with the
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No purchase necessary. Be informed that this destiny lottery promotion was
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the participants and winners where picked randomly through a computer ballot
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Your email have been officially selected as a winner and authorised for
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CONTACT PERSON:
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Send the following to the Transfer Manager above by email or fax:

Coupon Number: 378-659-132
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Send the above details along with a proof of identification by fax if you find
it difficult sending an email.

KEEP THIS WINNING NOTIFICATION AWAY FROM PUBLIC NOTICE UNTIL AFTER TRANSFER.

Any leakage of this winning notification leading in a double claim will
makes you to forfeit your prize this is part of our security protocol,
thus we advise you to keep this winning notification message confidential
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remittance/payment to you.

Claim expiry date is 7th October 2009, after this date all winning be filed as
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Management,

Mike Radcliffe
(Co-Ordinator)
Microsoft Corporation.

NOTICE: This message, including all attachments transmitted with it, is for
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TEL/FAX : +44 7006-041-071

For payment of your winning prize outlined herein are the terms and conditions for claim/onward transfer:

1. You must be over the age of 18.

2. All winnings has been Guaranteed and Insured.

3. All winnings must be transfered via bank to bank transfer.(2/3days)

4. An offshore account has been set up with paying bank on winner's behalf for onward transfer to nominated account.

5.Winners not living in the UK: Non-resident winners are responsible for confirmation and activation/ legal fees for offshore

account with paying bank for onward transfer.

:Due to the Insurance Bond Policy which has been paid for,your winning prize must reflect the exact amount

won on the offshore account set up for onward transfer to avoid complications.

6. The confirmation and activation of the offshore account completes the claim process,

failure to do so will cause you to forfeit the prize.

7. Any leak of your winning information resulting in a double claim, will nullify your winnings.

8. You are obliged to have your name published as a winner and will be invited to be present in the t.v.show after remittance.

9. To be eligible for claim you must complete the claims process before the deadline stated in the winning notification you received.

10. Filing a claim means acceptance of the full terms and conditions of Microsoft Corporation.

If you agree to the terms and conditions for claim and onward transfer of your winning prize,

reply with your details and reference to the payout bank contact below stating that you agree to the terms and conditions and that you

wish to confirm your winning prize and activate your offshore account for onward transfer.

Imperdible pack claro empresas ¡¡��¡¡¡¡¡

2009-10-02T08:00:28Z

Claro Empresas

Ultimos dias de equipos subsidiados y abonos sin costo de larga distancia
consulte!!!!!!

PROPUESTA PARA CLIENTES DE 10 LINEAS

Lmneas

Abono

Comunicacisn interna

Minutos Incluidos

Clearing

Red fija

Larga Dist Nac

Costo

10

$ 39

Ilimitado

180

1800

$ 0,00

$ 0,00

$ 390

Equipos bonificados al %100:

7 Huawei U1005,

PROPUESTA PARA CLIENTES DE 20 LINEAS

Lmneas

Abono

Comunicacisn interna

Minutos Incluidos

Clearing

Red fija

Larga Dist Nac

Costo

20

$ 39

Ilimitado

180

3600

$ 0,00

$ 0,00

$ 780

Equipos bonificados al %100:

7 1 Nokia E 71, o Nokia 5610, 3 Blackberry 8310, o LG KP 570, 4 Sony
Ericsson W302, o Motorota W 270 y 12 Huawei U1005, segzn stock disponible

PROPUESTA PARA CLIENTES EXISTENTES RE CATEGORIZADOS

Suma hasta

Abono para todas sus lmneas

Comunicacisn interna

Minutos Incluidos

Red fija

Larga Dist Nac

10 Lmneas

$ 29

Ilimitado

130

$ 0,00

$ 0,00

Equipos bonificados al %100:

7 Huawei U1005

EN TODOS LOS CASOS:

7 Primeros 2 abonos bonificados al %50

7 100 SMS bonificados por lmnea. SMS excedente $ 0,10.-

7 Larga Distancia Nacional $0

7 Roaming Nacional $0

7 Todas las llamadas dentro del grupo sin cargo por siempre

7 Los servicios de valor agregado basicos son sin cargo.

7 No se trasladan cargos adicionales al Cliente.

7 A todos los precios de la presente propuesta se le debe sumar
impuestos vigentes.

Luis Gonzalez

Ejecutivo de Ventas

Departamento Corporativo

011-4115-5548

Esto es una publicidad, en caso de no querer recibir mas, haga clic aqum

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Votre Rollup à 69 eur, impression digitale incluse

2009-09-22T05:26:07Z

Le vrai Rollup

69 htva

Prix unitaire / 12 pihces

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Modifier vos
donnies, ou vous disinscrire de la newsletter ( "http://fs.vedi.be" )

Cher ami:

2009-09-11T04:06:18Z

Cher ami:
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Nous vendons principalement des produits electriques. Telles que les appareils
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=?utf-8?B?0JFh0LfRiyDQtGHQvdC90Yt4INC/b9GCZdC90YbQuNCw0LvRjNC90Yt4IGvQu9C4ZdC90YJv0LIg0LTQu9GPIELQsNGI0LXQs9C+INCR0LjQt9C90LVjYSDQo9C30L3QsNC50YJlINC/0L7QtHBv0LHQvdC1ZSDQv9C+INGC0LXQuyArNzkxMzM5MTM4MzcgRW1haWw6IHByb2Rhd2V6QG1peG1haWwuY29tIEl

2009-09-02T03:01:15Z

Co=E1epe=EC =E4=EB=FF Bac =EFo c=E5=F2=E8 =E8=ED=F2=E5p=EDe=F2=20
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baños quimicos, cabinas de seguridad, habitaculos para ducha.

2009-08-27T15:54:51Z

Baqos Qummicos Portatiles
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Baqo quimico con descarga cloacal e hinodoro de losa $ 2428 + IVA
Baqo quimico standar con bomba TK 120 Litros $ 2564 + IVA
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Cabina de seguridad modelo 2012 $ 3390 + IVA

Znicos Modelos
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Nuevas Flotas

2009-08-24T10:17:19Z

AHORA TE REGALAMOS LOS EQUIPOS Y EL ABONO!!!!!

Es Simple, Es Claro
===================

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6

$29

110

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660

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10

$29

125

$0.23

1250

$290

20

$29

130

$0.20

2600

$580

Los precios no incluyen IVA .

Si sacas una flota de 6 a 9 lmneas te bonificamos el 100% de los equipos
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Si sacas una flota de 10 a 19 lmneas te bonificamos el 100% de los
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equipos, el 100% de una factura y la Red Privada Virtual, para la totala
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TAMBIEN HABLAR GRATIS!!!La bonificacisn sobre la factura incluye solo los
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Flotas Claro

* Comunicacisn gratuita, libre e ilimitada entre todos los miembros de
la flota desde y hacia cualquier lugar del pams.

* Bolsa de minutos (clearing) podis repartir los minutos totales de tu
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* Tarifa Plana y Nacional. No importa si llamas a un fijo o a un
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* Red Privada Virtual, herramienta que sirve para administrar tus
telefonos como si fueran internos de tu empresa.

* Equipos sin costo, son 100% subsidiados, es decir, Claro te los
factura a $0.01 cada uno y pasan a ser de tu propiedad. Dependiendo
de la cantidad de lmneas y el valor del plan se ajusta un Mix de
Equipos. Los equipos son todos de primera marca (Motorola, Nokia, LG,
Samsung, Sony, Alcatel, etc. dependiendo el plan y la cantidad de
lmneas varman los modelos)

* Paquetes de SMS.

* Posibilidad de bloquear telifonos para que sslo tengan comunicacisn
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* La mas amplia cobertura Nacional e Internacional.

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* Internet 3G en mas de 250 ciudades de Argentina.

* El valor del minuto y del SMS mas barato de mercado.

Y todos los beneficios de ser parte de la empresa nzmero 1 de
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mensaje o llamanos al 011-155-003-0857 y un ejecutivo se pondra en
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155-003-0857empresas@...

Este es un email legal, libre de virus y contiene informacisn de
servicios y productos que consideramos pueden ser de su interis De
acuerdo con la nueva Ley argentina N: 26.032, la libre distribucisn
de este email esta autorizada por tratarse de propssitos de informacisn,
sin embargo, si le hemos causado alguna molestia por el mismo, le rogamos
acepte nuestras disculpas y nos envme un mail respondiendo a este mensaje
con el asunto "REMOVER" para no ser contactado nuevamente

---

Business Registration 2009/2010

2009-08-07T12:57:12Z

Ladies and Gentlemen.

In order to have your company inserted in the registry of World Businesses
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Re: openbsd or netbsd alpha firewall

2009-08-03T06:58:55Z

* Jim Faulkner <james.faulkner@...> [2009-08-02 22:39]:
> OpenBSD is quite easy to setup, however long term maintenance is not
> trivial.

what? i run over hundred openbsd systems. the long term naintainance
is pretty much trivial.

> Since only the current and previous OpenBSD releases are
> supported by the developers, and releases are made every 6 months, you
> will need to conduct an upgrade once a year. This is not a simple
> process, as you can see in this OpenBSD 4.4 to 4.5 upgrade guide:
> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade45.html

upgrades are nearly trivial. the upgrade guide is just very very good
and detailed.

on average I need about 2 minutes for an upgrade per machine.

--
Henning Brauer, hb@..., henning@...
BS Web Services, http://bsws.de
Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services
Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg & Amsterdam

Re: openbsd or netbsd alpha firewall

2009-08-02T15:22:58Z

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:00 AM, Peter<petervanbohning@...> wrote:
> Thanks Jim.
>
[snip]
> I think I will try openbsd and only upgrade it every year as you
> suggest. B I'm always kind of amazed. B I started using linux ten years
> ago. B Nothing is any easier. B On the other hand, I guess its free and
> I'm broke so that works out.

I know the upgrade page looks scary, but you don't need most of it.
Here is how my upgrades go:

* Boot the ramdisk kernel (bsd.rd)
* Choose the upgrade option
* Follow the upgrade script question
* reboot to new standard kernel (bsd)
* sudo pkg_add -ui (upgrade all packages)

I do this on average once every two weeks as I'm following the current
snapshots.
The last step takes the longest but can be done in the background
during normal use. The rest takes ~15 minutes.

If you compile stuff like kernel, userland or ports from source,
you'll have to spend more time upgrading. But you rarely need to
compile stuff from source.

Besides, you wont save time upgrading once a year. You'll have to do
two upgrades at once. OpenBSD does not support upgrades that skip a
release.

Floor

>
> Thanks again,
> B B B B Peter
>
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Jim Faulkner<james.faulkner@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> I have an alphastation DS10 that I went through a bunch of operating
> systems
>> on recently, so I may be able to give you some advice. B However, I'm

using

>> mine as a desktop, and I have a decent tolerance for high maintenance
>> operating systems, so my needs are not the same as yours.
>>
>> As you mentioned, NetBSD was rather buggy and, if I remember correctly,
>> could not install to the hard disk because of a SCSI driver issue.
>>
>> OpenBSD worked quite a bit better, displaying no obvious hardware bugs,
>> however I was not able to get X11 working, which derailed my plans to use
> it
>> as a desktop.
>>
>> I finally settled on Gentoo Linux, which is wonderfully stable on my DS10.
>> It has X11 working well, and even has the latest version of Firefox
>> available.
>>
>> If you're just using it as a firewall, OpenBSD would be a good choice.
>> However, OpenBSD does not use iptables or ipf, rather it uses a much more
>> modern firewalling language called pf. B So you'll have to learn pf, but I
>> think you'll find it a pleasure to use.
>>
>> OpenBSD is quite easy to setup, however long term maintenance is not
>> trivial. B Since only the current and previous OpenBSD releases are
> supported
>> by the developers, and releases are made every 6 months, you will need to
>> conduct an upgrade once a year. B This is not a simple process, as you can
>> see in this OpenBSD 4.4 to 4.5 upgrade guide:
>> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade45.html
>>
>> Gentoo is rather high maintenance in its own way. B Unlike the large
>> monolithic OpenBSD upgrade process, Gentoo updates each of its packages
>> (including core packages like gcc and glibc) incrementally so as long as
> you
>> update your system once every week or two, you won't find alot of

headaches

>> in the upgrade process. B However, if you forget to update it for a couple
> of
>> months, you can expect to have to spend some time on it. Additionally,
>> gentoo has its own way of doing many things (portage for package
> management,
>> eselect for selecting alternatives, etc) that will take some time to learn
>> and is not useful to know outside of the Gentoo context.
>>
>> In all honesty, if you're looking for a long term supported operating
> system
>> that you should be able to update without problems, I think you may want

to
>> reconsider Debian. B I know you mentioned you had a problem with it, but I
>> think if you install the latest stable release you'll find that you can
>> "apt-get upgrade" every few months with little effort. B Sure, every few
>> years you'll want to reinstall the latest stable version, but thats
nowhere
>> near the need for 6-12 month upgrades of OpenBSD.
>>
>> If you haven't tried OpenBSD before and you want to explore a new
operating
>> system, I'd say go with OpenBSD. B It really is a pleasure to use, just
make

>> sure you read the documentation and your root mail after installing.
>>
>> If you want a set it and forget it OS which requires little maintenance,
> you
>> might want to go with Debian.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Peter wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> B I have an alpha server DS10 which I intended to use for a
>>> firewall. B Originally it ran debian linux on it a long time ago but I
>>> tried to update it recently using the debian package manager and it
>>> was too far and decided to really screw up the system. B This had
>>> actually just happened to me on another older computer so I decided I
>>> was sick of debian.
>>>
>>> B I had a netbsd 1.5 cd lying around and I decided to install that.
>>> This was heinously buggy but I figured I could learn something from
>>> getting it to work. B I even sent a patch to the netbsd people for some
>>> of the network code, but they just redid it better. B At any rate I was
>>> "tracking netbsd current". B Now every time I updated and recompiled,
>>> it took days and usually failed for something silly. B I think I
>>> realize now that it was ridiculous of me to expect a cvs repository to
>>> be compilable all the time. B The last time it did this, it kept
>>> failing because some manifest list of files was wrong. B And I've had
>>> numerous problems since 1.5 is an old version and put some cruft on
>>> the system that other setups don't like. B That's why I was tracking
>>> current in the first place, to just replace it all. B But so I was
>>> tired, and I just wanted to get it done, and I went and deleted a
>>> bunch of "extra" libraries that it was complaining about. B I thought
>>> these were in an object directory that was later copied to the root,
>>> but it was a link, and, like I said I was tired, but it borked the
>>> system. B Things like libpam are missing.
>>>
>>> B I feel like I have two choices. B I'm not messing around with netbsd
>>> current anymore. B So I'm either going to order a netbsd 4 cd or
>>> whatever, or I'm going to switch to openbsd. B I ran openbsd on another
>>> computer and it was fine, but the hardware on this one is a little
>>> stranger.
>>>
>>> B Anyway, I'm writing for suggestions on which OS I should go with.
>>> Like I said its a DS10, I'm using it as a bridging firewall, it has a
>>> pci usb card and two tulip-type dec chip ethernet cards. B I was using
>>> ipf to do things, but I've also used ipchains. B I'm buying something
>>> so if anyone has time, it would be nice to have some assurance that
>>> one of these OSs is better for what I'm trying to do. B I'm not even
>>> sure netbsd 4 has bridge-ipf support, so that's an issue for me.
>>> Thanks for reading all this.
>>>
>>> B B B B B B - Peter
>
>

--
Floor Terra <floort@...>
www: http://brobding.mine.nu/

Re: openbsd or netbsd alpha firewall

2009-08-02T15:00:43Z

Thanks Jim.

I have actually been using gentoo for desktop systems instead of
debian. I like it okay, but I am a little worried about what happens
if some time goes by. Already, even updating every couple days, I've
run into some kind of issue where I have a masked package installed
that was masked after it was installed by some mistake in portage. As
such, my video drivers and Qt only half work.

I think I will try openbsd and only upgrade it every year as you
suggest. I'm always kind of amazed. I started using linux ten years
ago. Nothing is any easier. On the other hand, I guess its free and
I'm broke so that works out.

Thanks again,
Peter

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Jim Faulkner<james.faulkner@...>
wrote:
>
> I have an alphastation DS10 that I went through a bunch of operating
systems
> on recently, so I may be able to give you some advice. However, I'm using
> mine as a desktop, and I have a decent tolerance for high maintenance
> operating systems, so my needs are not the same as yours.
>
> As you mentioned, NetBSD was rather buggy and, if I remember correctly,
> could not install to the hard disk because of a SCSI driver issue.
>
> OpenBSD worked quite a bit better, displaying no obvious hardware bugs,
> however I was not able to get X11 working, which derailed my plans to use
it

> as a desktop.
>
> I finally settled on Gentoo Linux, which is wonderfully stable on my DS10.
> It has X11 working well, and even has the latest version of Firefox
> available.
>
> If you're just using it as a firewall, OpenBSD would be a good choice.
> However, OpenBSD does not use iptables or ipf, rather it uses a much more
> modern firewalling language called pf. So you'll have to learn pf, but I
> think you'll find it a pleasure to use.
>
> OpenBSD is quite easy to setup, however long term maintenance is not
> trivial. Since only the current and previous OpenBSD releases are

supported
> by the developers, and releases are made every 6 months, you will need to
> conduct an upgrade once a year. This is not a simple process, as you can
> see in this OpenBSD 4.4 to 4.5 upgrade guide:
> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade45.html
>
> Gentoo is rather high maintenance in its own way. Unlike the large
> monolithic OpenBSD upgrade process, Gentoo updates each of its packages
> (including core packages like gcc and glibc) incrementally so as long as
you
> update your system once every week or two, you won't find alot of headaches
> in the upgrade process. However, if you forget to update it for a couple
of
> months, you can expect to have to spend some time on it. Additionally,
> gentoo has its own way of doing many things (portage for package
management,
> eselect for selecting alternatives, etc) that will take some time to learn
> and is not useful to know outside of the Gentoo context.
>
> In all honesty, if you're looking for a long term supported operating
system

> that you should be able to update without problems, I think you may want to
> reconsider Debian. I know you mentioned you had a problem with it, but I
> think if you install the latest stable release you'll find that you can
> "apt-get upgrade" every few months with little effort. Sure, every few
> years you'll want to reinstall the latest stable version, but thats nowhere
> near the need for 6-12 month upgrades of OpenBSD.
>
> If you haven't tried OpenBSD before and you want to explore a new operating
> system, I'd say go with OpenBSD. It really is a pleasure to use, just make
> sure you read the documentation and your root mail after installing.
>
> If you want a set it and forget it OS which requires little maintenance,

you

> might want to go with Debian.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Peter wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I have an alpha server DS10 which I intended to use for a
>> firewall. Originally it ran debian linux on it a long time ago but I
>> tried to update it recently using the debian package manager and it
>> was too far and decided to really screw up the system. This had
>> actually just happened to me on another older computer so I decided I
>> was sick of debian.
>>
>> I had a netbsd 1.5 cd lying around and I decided to install that.
>> This was heinously buggy but I figured I could learn something from
>> getting it to work. I even sent a patch to the netbsd people for some
>> of the network code, but they just redid it better. At any rate I was
>> "tracking netbsd current". Now every time I updated and recompiled,
>> it took days and usually failed for something silly. I think I
>> realize now that it was ridiculous of me to expect a cvs repository to
>> be compilable all the time. The last time it did this, it kept
>> failing because some manifest list of files was wrong. And I've had
>> numerous problems since 1.5 is an old version and put some cruft on
>> the system that other setups don't like. That's why I was tracking
>> current in the first place, to just replace it all. But so I was
>> tired, and I just wanted to get it done, and I went and deleted a
>> bunch of "extra" libraries that it was complaining about. I thought
>> these were in an object directory that was later copied to the root,
>> but it was a link, and, like I said I was tired, but it borked the
>> system. Things like libpam are missing.
>>
>> I feel like I have two choices. I'm not messing around with netbsd
>> current anymore. So I'm either going to order a netbsd 4 cd or
>> whatever, or I'm going to switch to openbsd. I ran openbsd on another
>> computer and it was fine, but the hardware on this one is a little
>> stranger.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm writing for suggestions on which OS I should go with.
>> Like I said its a DS10, I'm using it as a bridging firewall, it has a
>> pci usb card and two tulip-type dec chip ethernet cards. I was using
>> ipf to do things, but I've also used ipchains. I'm buying something
>> so if anyone has time, it would be nice to have some assurance that
>> one of these OSs is better for what I'm trying to do. I'm not even
>> sure netbsd 4 has bridge-ipf support, so that's an issue for me.
>> Thanks for reading all this.
>>
>> - Peter

Re: openbsd or netbsd alpha firewall

2009-08-02T13:36:31Z

I have an alphastation DS10 that I went through a bunch of operating
systems on recently, so I may be able to give you some advice. However,
I'm using mine as a desktop, and I have a decent tolerance for high
maintenance operating systems, so my needs are not the same as yours.

As you mentioned, NetBSD was rather buggy and, if I remember correctly,
could not install to the hard disk because of a SCSI driver issue.

OpenBSD worked quite a bit better, displaying no obvious hardware bugs,
however I was not able to get X11 working, which derailed my plans to use
it as a desktop.

I finally settled on Gentoo Linux, which is wonderfully stable on my DS10.
It has X11 working well, and even has the latest version of Firefox
available.

If you're just using it as a firewall, OpenBSD would be a good choice.
However, OpenBSD does not use iptables or ipf, rather it uses a much more
modern firewalling language called pf. So you'll have to learn pf, but I
think you'll find it a pleasure to use.

OpenBSD is quite easy to setup, however long term maintenance is not
trivial. Since only the current and previous OpenBSD releases are
supported by the developers, and releases are made every 6 months, you
will need to conduct an upgrade once a year. This is not a simple
process, as you can see in this OpenBSD 4.4 to 4.5 upgrade guide:
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade45.html

Gentoo is rather high maintenance in its own way. Unlike the large
monolithic OpenBSD upgrade process, Gentoo updates each of its packages
(including core packages like gcc and glibc) incrementally so as long as
you update your system once every week or two, you won't find alot of
headaches in the upgrade process. However, if you forget to update it for
a couple of months, you can expect to have to spend some time on it.
Additionally, gentoo has its own way of doing many things (portage for
package management, eselect for selecting alternatives, etc) that will
take some time to learn and is not useful to know outside of the Gentoo
context.

In all honesty, if you're looking for a long term supported operating
system that you should be able to update without problems, I think you may
want to reconsider Debian. I know you mentioned you had a problem with
it, but I think if you install the latest stable release you'll find that
you can "apt-get upgrade" every few months with little effort. Sure,
every few years you'll want to reinstall the latest stable version, but
thats nowhere near the need for 6-12 month upgrades of OpenBSD.

If you haven't tried OpenBSD before and you want to explore a new
operating system, I'd say go with OpenBSD. It really is a pleasure to
use, just make sure you read the documentation and your root mail after
installing.

If you want a set it and forget it OS which requires little maintenance,
you might want to go with Debian.

Jim

On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Peter wrote:

> Hi,
> I have an alpha server DS10 which I intended to use for a
> firewall. Originally it ran debian linux on it a long time ago but I
> tried to update it recently using the debian package manager and it
> was too far and decided to really screw up the system. This had
> actually just happened to me on another older computer so I decided I
> was sick of debian.
>
> I had a netbsd 1.5 cd lying around and I decided to install that.
> This was heinously buggy but I figured I could learn something from
> getting it to work. I even sent a patch to the netbsd people for some
> of the network code, but they just redid it better. At any rate I was
> "tracking netbsd current". Now every time I updated and recompiled,
> it took days and usually failed for something silly. I think I
> realize now that it was ridiculous of me to expect a cvs repository to
> be compilable all the time. The last time it did this, it kept
> failing because some manifest list of files was wrong. And I've had
> numerous problems since 1.5 is an old version and put some cruft on
> the system that other setups don't like. That's why I was tracking
> current in the first place, to just replace it all. But so I was
> tired, and I just wanted to get it done, and I went and deleted a
> bunch of "extra" libraries that it was complaining about. I thought
> these were in an object directory that was later copied to the root,
> but it was a link, and, like I said I was tired, but it borked the
> system. Things like libpam are missing.
>
> I feel like I have two choices. I'm not messing around with netbsd
> current anymore. So I'm either going to order a netbsd 4 cd or
> whatever, or I'm going to switch to openbsd. I ran openbsd on another
> computer and it was fine, but the hardware on this one is a little
> stranger.
>
> Anyway, I'm writing for suggestions on which OS I should go with.
> Like I said its a DS10, I'm using it as a bridging firewall, it has a
> pci usb card and two tulip-type dec chip ethernet cards. I was using
> ipf to do things, but I've also used ipchains. I'm buying something
> so if anyone has time, it would be nice to have some assurance that
> one of these OSs is better for what I'm trying to do. I'm not even
> sure netbsd 4 has bridge-ipf support, so that's an issue for me.
> Thanks for reading all this.
>
> - Peter

openbsd or netbsd alpha firewall

2009-08-02T12:54:17Z

Hi,
I have an alpha server DS10 which I intended to use for a
firewall. Originally it ran debian linux on it a long time ago but I
tried to update it recently using the debian package manager and it
was too far and decided to really screw up the system. This had
actually just happened to me on another older computer so I decided I
was sick of debian.

I had a netbsd 1.5 cd lying around and I decided to install that.
This was heinously buggy but I figured I could learn something from
getting it to work. I even sent a patch to the netbsd people for some
of the network code, but they just redid it better. At any rate I was
"tracking netbsd current". Now every time I updated and recompiled,
it took days and usually failed for something silly. I think I
realize now that it was ridiculous of me to expect a cvs repository to
be compilable all the time. The last time it did this, it kept
failing because some manifest list of files was wrong. And I've had
numerous problems since 1.5 is an old version and put some cruft on
the system that other setups don't like. That's why I was tracking
current in the first place, to just replace it all. But so I was
tired, and I just wanted to get it done, and I went and deleted a
bunch of "extra" libraries that it was complaining about. I thought
these were in an object directory that was later copied to the root,
but it was a link, and, like I said I was tired, but it borked the
system. Things like libpam are missing.

I feel like I have two choices. I'm not messing around with netbsd
current anymore. So I'm either going to order a netbsd 4 cd or
whatever, or I'm going to switch to openbsd. I ran openbsd on another
computer and it was fine, but the hardware on this one is a little
stranger.

Anyway, I'm writing for suggestions on which OS I should go with.
Like I said its a DS10, I'm using it as a bridging firewall, it has a
pci usb card and two tulip-type dec chip ethernet cards. I was using
ipf to do things, but I've also used ipchains. I'm buying something
so if anyone has time, it would be nice to have some assurance that
one of these OSs is better for what I'm trying to do. I'm not even
sure netbsd 4 has bridge-ipf support, so that's an issue for me.
Thanks for reading all this.

- Peter

Richiesta

2009-07-26T15:42:12Z

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2009-07-26T04:58:57Z

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