osm copyright violation?

[Apollinaris Schoell]

Hi

Isn't this a  violation of the osm copyright? Can't find any attribution on the website.
http://hotpads.com/search/#lat=37.34232140492519&lon=-121.85159683227539&zoom=24&listingTypes=rental,sublet,room,corporate&includeVaguePricing=false&loan=30,0.0525,0&visible=new,viewed,favorite

What should be done about this type of applications? Is it enough to contact them and ask to add the attribution in the map or is they way they do it not possible at all and they have to share their data if they want to use osm.

--
apo

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Ciprian Talaba]

Hi Apo,

On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Apollinaris Schoell <aschoell@...> wrote:

Hi

Isn't this a  violation of the osm copyright? Can't find any attribution on the website.
http://hotpads.com/search/#lat=37.34232140492519&lon=-121.85159683227539&zoom=24&listingTypes=rental,sublet,room,corporate&includeVaguePricing=false&loan=30,0.0525,0&visible=new,viewed,favorite

What should be done about this type of applications? Is it enough to contact them and ask to add the attribution in the map or is they way they do it not possible at all and they have to share their data if they want to use osm.

--
apo

You can find more information about the process in the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution

--Ciprian

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Richard Weait]

On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Ciprian Talaba
<cipriantalaba@...> wrote:

> Hi Apo,
>
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Apollinaris Schoell <aschoell@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Isn't this a  violation of the osm copyright? Can't find any attribution
>> on the website.
>>
>> http://hotpads.com/search/#lat=37.34232140492519&lon=-121.85159683227539&zoom=24&listingTypes=rental,sublet,room,corporate&includeVaguePricing=false&loan=30,0.0525,0&visible=new,viewed,favorite
>>
>> What should be done about this type of applications? Is it enough to
>> contact them and ask to add the attribution in the map or is they way they
>> do it not possible at all and they have to share their data if they want to
>> use osm.
>>
>> --
>> apo
>
> You can find more information about the process in the wiki:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
>

They mention OSM here.
http://hotpads.com/pages/info/aboutUs.htm

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Apollinaris Schoell]

this is a technical description not an attribution. they offer also  
google streetview and ther Google copyright is in the main window
I will contact them ask to add it. The use of the date itself is fine  
as far as I understand the license

On 17 Oct 2009, at 20:06 , Richard Weait wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Ciprian Talaba
> <cipriantalaba@...> wrote:
>> Hi Apo,
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Apollinaris Schoell <aschoell@...
>> >
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Isn't this a  violation of the osm copyright? Can't find any  
>>> attribution
>>> on the website.
>>>
>>> http://hotpads.com/search/#lat=37.34232140492519&lon=-121.85159683227539&zoom=24&listingTypes=rental,sublet,room,corporate&includeVaguePricing=false&loan=30,0.0525,0&visible=new,viewed,favorite
>>>
>>> What should be done about this type of applications? Is it enough to
>>> contact them and ask to add the attribution in the map or is they  
>>> way they
>>> do it not possible at all and they have to share their data if  
>>> they want to
>>> use osm.
>>>
>>> --
>>> apo
>>
>> You can find more information about the process in the wiki:
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
>>
>
> They mention OSM here.
> http://hotpads.com/pages/info/aboutUs.htm
>
> _______________________________________________
> legal-talk mailing list
> legal-talk@...
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Sam Larsen]

Hi all,

I am looking into the proper attribution of OSM in a tiled web mapping scenario.  I know the guidelines on attribution can be found on the wiki - and i have read them.
There is also the list of non-conforming sites: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
Does anyone think, we should have a list of 'conforming' sites - as the CloudMade maps and even the main www.openstreetmap.org are listed as not having proper attribution.  
I think it would be useful to have at least one example of conforming attribution (even though i know the attribution will change in the near future anyway) for people to use as a case study / reference.  Of course if people were to be referencing this website, it would have to be absolutely correct and stay unchanged while it is used as a reference.

Maybe a site could be mocked-up within the wiki somewhere?

I haven't contributed to the wiki before - maybe this could be my calling - if anyone thinks it is needed.


 
Sam Larsen
Web GIS Specialist
York St, Cambridge, UK, CB1 2PY
M: [phone]



     

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Peter Miller-7]

On 20 Oct 2009, at 11:03, Sam Larsen wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am looking into the proper attribution of OSM in a tiled web  
> mapping scenario.  I know the guidelines on attribution can be found  
> on the wiki - and i have read them.
> There is also the list of non-conforming sites: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
> Does anyone think, we should have a list of 'conforming' sites - as  
> the CloudMade maps and even the main www.openstreetmap.org are  
> listed as not having proper attribution.

I think we should be kicking arse to get better conformance on this  
rather than accepting that major websites and players within the  
community are not conforming.

> I think it would be useful to have at least one example of  
> conforming attribution (even though i know the attribution will  
> change in the near future anyway) for people to use as a case  
> study / reference.  Of course if people were to be referencing this  
> website, it would have to be absolutely correct and stay unchanged  
> while it is used as a reference.
>
> Maybe a site could be mocked-up within the wiki somewhere?
>
> I haven't contributed to the wiki before - maybe this could be my  
> calling - if anyone thinks it is needed.

Sounds like a great idea - some simple html that one can cut and paste  
into one's application would be a great idea and may indeed be your  
'calling' :)


Regards,


Peter

>
>
>
> Sam Larsen
> Web GIS Specialist
> York St, Cambridge, UK, CB1 2PY
> M: [phone]
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> legal-talk mailing list
> legal-talk@...
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Tom Hughes-2]

On 20/10/09 11:36, Peter Miller wrote:

> On 20 Oct 2009, at 11:03, Sam Larsen wrote:
>
>> I am looking into the proper attribution of OSM in a tiled web
>> mapping scenario.  I know the guidelines on attribution can be found
>> on the wiki - and i have read them.
>> There is also the list of non-conforming sites: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
>> Does anyone think, we should have a list of 'conforming' sites - as
>> the CloudMade maps and even the main www.openstreetmap.org are
>> listed as not having proper attribution.
>
> I think we should be kicking arse to get better conformance on this
> rather than accepting that major websites and players within the
> community are not conforming.

I think we should start by asking people nicely before we get all
medieval on their arses, don't you?

Incidentally I would also point out that much of that page is the work
of one especially vociferous individual and there is considerable debate
among other people as to whether all the claims made there are accurate.

I for example added text disputing whether openstreetmap.org was lacking
attribution and the user in question simply reverted that edit without
any comment or discussion.

The main issue of debate surrounds exactly what forms of attribution
are/are not valid.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes (tom@...)
http://www.compton.nu/

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Tom Hughes wrote:
> The main issue of debate surrounds exactly what forms of attribution
> are/are not valid.

And this is not made easier by the fact that what is valid and what not
is not the community's decision but (within the confines of the license
text) that of the individual contributor.

Assuming for a moment that my contributions to OSM are copyrightable and
the CC-BY-SA license is valid, then if I license my data CC-BY-SA I have
the right to request anyone using my data, or building or using derived
versions thereof, to provide attribution in the form I believe is
required, and I can drag them to court if they don't.

So even if the attribution you provide looks ok to the majority of the
community, it only needs "one especially vociferous individual" who has
contributed to the data you are using to cause you trouble.

Bye
Frederik

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Sam Larsen]

----- Original Message ----

> From: Frederik Ramm <frederik@...>
> To: Licensing and other legal discussions. <legal-talk@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October, 2009 13:13:31
> Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Proper attribution
>
> Hi,
>
> Tom Hughes wrote:
> > The main issue of debate surrounds exactly what forms of attribution
> > are/are not valid.
>
> And this is not made easier by the fact that what is valid and what not
> is not the community's decision but (within the confines of the license
> text) that of the individual contributor.
>
> Assuming for a moment that my contributions to OSM are copyrightable and
> the CC-BY-SA license is valid, then if I license my data CC-BY-SA I have
> the right to request anyone using my data, or building or using derived
> versions thereof, to provide attribution in the form I believe is
> required, and I can drag them to court if they don't.

So it seems I have stumbled back on to the license debate.

>
> So even if the attribution you provide looks ok to the majority of the
> community, it only needs "one especially vociferous individual" who has
> contributed to the data you are using to cause you trouble.

I guess this will only be resolved / improved by ODbL.  
Until that time, i guess the more attribution the better and following the guidelines on
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ
will suffice.

>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> _______________________________________________
> legal-talk mailing list
> legal-talk@...
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk



     

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Peter Miller-7]

On 20 Oct 2009, at 12:01, Tom Hughes wrote:

> On 20/10/09 11:36, Peter Miller wrote:
>
>> On 20 Oct 2009, at 11:03, Sam Larsen wrote:
>>
>>> I am looking into the proper attribution of OSM in a tiled web
>>> mapping scenario.  I know the guidelines on attribution can be found
>>> on the wiki - and i have read them.
>>> There is also the list of non-conforming sites: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
>>> Does anyone think, we should have a list of 'conforming' sites - as
>>> the CloudMade maps and even the main www.openstreetmap.org are
>>> listed as not having proper attribution.
>>
>> I think we should be kicking arse to get better conformance on this
>> rather than accepting that major websites and players within the
>> community are not conforming.
>
> I think we should start by asking people nicely before we get all
> medieval on their arses, don't you?

I believe we have already asked nicely, but I am not actually  
suggesting that anyone applies their footwear to anyone else's trouser  
fabric of course, only that we should do what is necessary to ensure  
that we have our house in order before expecting the same from others.

As Frederick points out however, any contributor can challenge any  
user of the data on their attribution of the contributors work.

>
> Incidentally I would also point out that much of that page is the work
> of one especially vociferous individual and there is considerable  
> debate
> among other people as to whether all the claims made there are  
> accurate.
>
> I for example added text disputing whether openstreetmap.org was  
> lacking
> attribution and the user in question simply reverted that edit without
> any comment or discussion.
>
> The main issue of debate surrounds exactly what forms of attribution
> are/are not valid.

Sure, so lets get that page showing how things should be onto the wiki  
and then make sure all the projects close to OSM comply and then we  
can work out from there (and also ensure that the list of sites  
lacking proper attribution is accurate).

Regards,


Peter

>
> Tom
>
> --
> Tom Hughes (tom@...)
> http://www.compton.nu/
>
> _______________________________________________
> legal-talk mailing list
> legal-talk@...
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Richard Fairhurst]

Peter Miller wrote:
> Sure, so lets get that page showing how things should be onto the wiki  

I think we've got that bit already:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ#I_would_like_to_use_OpenStreetMap_maps._How_should_I_credit_you.3F

cheers
Richard

[Shaun McDonald-3]

On 21 Oct 2009, at 18:58, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

>
> Peter Miller wrote:
>> Sure, so lets get that page showing how things should be onto the  
>> wiki
>
> I think we've got that bit already:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ#I_would_like_to_use_OpenStreetMap_maps._How_should_I_credit_you.3F

Maybe it would be worth having a single page for this to make it  
easier to find and direct to?

Shaun


_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Nick Black-4]

Hi Sam and list,

Could you point out where CloudMade is not attributing OSM properly and we'll fix it right away.  Our maps API puts:

"© 2009 CloudMade - Map data CCBYSA 2009 OpenStreetMap.org contributors"

Our FAQ says:

"If you use our maps via the Web Maps Lite API a copyright and attribution notice will appear in the bottom right hand corner of the window which says "© 2009 CloudMade - Map data CCBYSA 2009 OpenStreetMap.org contributors - Terms of Use". You must show this attribution whenever you access our map tiles."

For mobile use:

"You should include the following information somewhere in the application where it can be easily accessed, such as a "Help" or "About" screen or on a splash screen: "© 2009 CloudMade - Map data CCBYSA 2009 OpenStreetMap.org contributors - Terms of Use"."

http://cloudmade.com/faq#license

Our contacts page does not include attribution on the map, but has it under the maps, as we judged them too small to be attributed:

http://cloudmade.com/contact

The OSM wiki says that CloudMade are violating because our client sites and our own site says::

"Whitehouse site says "Data (c) OpenStreetMap, rendering (c) CloudMade". CloudMade site says both "Map data (c) OpenStreetMap contributors" and separately "Map data CCBYSA OpenStreetMap contributors"."

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution

But the OSM wiki also says that the correct attribution is:

"If you are using OpenStreetMap data only, we request that your credit reads at least "Map data (c) OpenStreetMap (and) contributors, CC-BY-SA"."

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ#I_would_like_to_use_OpenStreetMap_maps._How_should_I_credit_you.3F

Depending how precise you want to be, we say "Data" rather than "Map Data".

I think the Foundation need to publish some clear guidelines about this.  From the point of view of a company who is trying very hard to get it right and to make it easy for people building on our platform to get it right, I can vouch that attribution issues are confusing.  

We want to do the right thing and we're even happy to help define what the right thing is, but there needs to be more clarity.

--

Nick

nick@...

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Sam Larsen <samlarsen1@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I am looking into the proper attribution of OSM in a tiled web mapping scenario.  I know the guidelines on attribution can be found on the wiki - and i have read them.
There is also the list of non-conforming sites: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
Does anyone think, we should have a list of 'conforming' sites - as the CloudMade maps and even the main www.openstreetmap.org are listed as not having proper attribution.
I think it would be useful to have at least one example of conforming attribution (even though i know the attribution will change in the near future anyway) for people to use as a case study / reference.  Of course if people were to be referencing this website, it would have to be absolutely correct and stay unchanged while it is used as a reference.

Maybe a site could be mocked-up within the wiki somewhere?

I haven't contributed to the wiki before - maybe this could be my calling - if anyone thinks it is needed.



Sam Larsen
Web GIS Specialist
York St, Cambridge, UK, CB1 2PY
M: [phone]





_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

--
--
Nick Black
twitter.com/nick_b

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Sam Larsen]

Nick,

Personally i think your attribution is fine.  I was even pointing
people to your map attribution methods to use as an case study until i
found them in the list here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
That's where all the confusion has come in, and personally i don't
think this impractical attribution problem will be solved until ODbL is
introduced (hopefully).  I guess until that time people will have different views
on what is 'proper' and what is not.


Sam

>
>From: Nick Black <nickblack1@...>
>To: Licensing and other legal discussions. <legal-talk@...>
>Sent: Thursday, 22 October, 2009 13:24:20
>Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Proper attribution
>
>Hi Sam and list,
>
>
>Could you point out where CloudMade is not attributing OSM properly and we'll fix it right away.  Our maps API puts:
>
>
>"© 2009 CloudMade - Map data CCBYSA 2009 OpenStreetMap.org contributors"
>
>
>Our FAQ says:
>
>
>"If you use our maps via the Web Maps Lite API a copyright and attribution notice will appear in the bottom right hand corner of the window which says "© 2009 CloudMade - Map data CCBYSA 2009 OpenStreetMap.org contributors - Terms of Use". You must show this attribution whenever you access our map tiles."
>
>
>For mobile use:
>
>
>"You should include the following information somewhere in the application where it can be easily accessed, such as a "Help" or "About" screen or on a splash screen: "© 2009 CloudMade - Map data CCBYSA 2009 OpenStreetMap.org contributors - Terms of Use"."
>
>
>http://cloudmade.com/faq#license
>
>
>Our contacts page does not include attribution on the map, but has it under the maps, as we judged them too small to be attributed:
>
>
>http://cloudmade.com/contact
>
>
>The OSM wiki says that CloudMade are violating because our client sites and our own site says::
>
>
>"Whitehouse site says "Data (c) OpenStreetMap, rendering (c) CloudMade". CloudMade site says both "Map data (c) OpenStreetMap contributors" and separately "Map data CCBYSA OpenStreetMap contributors"."
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
>
>
>But the OSM wiki also says that the correct attribution is:
>
>
>"If you are using OpenStreetMap data only, we request that your credit reads at least "Map data (c) OpenStreetMap (and) contributors, CC-BY-SA"."
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ#I_would_like_to_use_OpenStreetMap_maps._How_should_I_credit_you.3F
>
>
>Depending how precise you want to be, we say "Data" rather than "Map Data".
>
>
>I think the Foundation need to publish some clear guidelines about this.  From the point of view of a company who is trying very hard to get it right and to make it easy for people building on our platform to get it right, I can vouch that attribution issues are confusing.  
>
>
>We want to do the right thing and we're even happy to help define what the right thing is, but there needs to be more clarity.
>
>
>--
>Nick
>nick@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Sam Larsen <samlarsen1@...> wrote:
>
>Hi all,
>>
>>>>I am looking into the proper attribution of OSM in a tiled web mapping scenario.  I know the guidelines on attribution can be found on the wiki - and i have read them.
>>>>There is also the list of non-conforming sites: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
>>>>Does anyone think, we should have a list of 'conforming' sites - as the CloudMade maps and even the main www.openstreetmap.org are listed as not having proper attribution.
>>>>
>>I think it would be useful to have at least one example of conforming attribution (even though i know the attribution will change in the near future anyway) for people to use as a case study / reference.  Of course if people were to be referencing this website, it would have to be absolutely correct and stay unchanged while it is used as a reference.
>>
>>>>Maybe a site could be mocked-up within the wiki somewhere?
>>
>>>>I haven't contributed to the wiki before - maybe this could be my calling - if anyone thinks it is needed.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Sam Larsen
>>>>Web GIS Specialist
>>>>York St, Cambridge, UK, CB1 2PY
>>>>M: [phone]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>legal-talk mailing list
>>legal-talk@...
>>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
>>
>
>
>--
>--
>Nick Black
>twitter.com/nick_b
>

     

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Frederik Ramm]

Nick,

Nick Black wrote:
> Could you point out where CloudMade is not attributing OSM properly and
> we'll fix it right away.

The whitehouse.gov/change site does have a mixed OSM/Cloudmade copyright
notice but lacks the CC-BY-SA declaration that most people believe is
required.

It was me who added this entry originally, but in the "who" column I
originally put "US Federal Government", not "Cloudmade". Other people
have later extended the entry to talk of "Cloudmade clients" or
something, and I removed my name from the "Added By" column at that
point because I was, after all, only talking about the whitehouse.gov site.

Bye
Frederik

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Andy Allan-2]

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Richard Fairhurst <richard@...> wrote:
>
> Peter Miller wrote:
>> Sure, so lets get that page showing how things should be onto the wiki
>
> I think we've got that bit already:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ#I_would_like_to_use_OpenStreetMap_maps._How_should_I_credit_you.3F

Argh, but that FAQ is wrong. It's a requirement of the license that
you must provide either a link to the license or the license itself.
Section 4a:

"You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly
digitally perform the Work only under the terms of this License, and
You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier for,
this License with every copy or phonorecord of the Work You
distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally
perform.,"

whereas the FAQ says:

"Where possible, 'OpenStreetMap' should be hyperlinked to
http://www.openstreetmap.org/, and CC-BY-SA to
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/ ."

There's no "where possible" regarding the license. As far as I see it,
and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, the three requirements are:

 * Attribution to the contributors (appropriate to the medium, etc)
 * Notice that the work is available under the license
 * Either the text of the license OR the URI for the license.

Cheers,
Andy

PS We can discuss including the text of the license/URI in every tile
served at some other point...

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Peter Miller-7]

On 22 Oct 2009, at 13:44, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> Nick,
>
> Nick Black wrote:
>> Could you point out where CloudMade is not attributing OSM properly  
>> and
>> we'll fix it right away.
>
> The whitehouse.gov/change site does have a mixed OSM/Cloudmade  
> copyright
> notice but lacks the CC-BY-SA declaration that most people believe is
> required.
>
> It was me who added this entry originally, but in the "who" column I
> originally put "US Federal Government", not "Cloudmade". Other people
> have later extended the entry to talk of "Cloudmade clients" or
> something, and I removed my name from the "Added By" column at that
> point because I was, after all, only talking about the  
> whitehouse.gov site.

It is my understanding that the map tiles should be released CC-BY-SA  
until the new ODbL license appears when the tiles can be released  
under virtually any license (including pd and 'all rights reserved').

The current message on the CM site implies that the data is CC-BY-SA  
OpenStreetMap but that the map tiles are (C) CloudMade. I believe that  
currently it should be clear that the map tiles are released as CC-BY-
SA by CloudMade (who may indeed also hold the (C) of the rendering.

Regards,


Peter




>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> _______________________________________________
> legal-talk mailing list
> legal-talk@...
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk


_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Richard Fairhurst]

Andy Allan wrote:
> There's no "where possible" regarding the license

What this section of the Legal FAQ actually says (which I think is an admirable model of clarity, but then I did write it :p ) is that hyperlinks should be provided where hyperlinks are possible. They are not possible in printed works, unless you have managed to create some magic kind of touchy clicky paper where you can press some words and a website magically appears. If you've done that then frankly I wonder why you're spending your days playing with TIGER data. ;)

If they are not possible, then it says you should provide the URI.

The FAQ departs slightly from the CC licence in that it recommends you point people to www.creativecommons.org rather than http://www.creativecommons.org/whateverthefuckingobscureurlisforthelicence/cc/by/sa/up/yer/bum/2.0 .

But if we're at the stage of complying with the exact wording of the licence, then hey, let's not forget that strictly you have to attribute every contributor to OSM the instant you touch the data. The letter of CC-BY-SA does not permit any opt-out for credit to the Original Author, i.e. the mapper. If I may borrow your wording, "reasonable to the medium or means You are utilizing" [sic] does not include "where possible".

So, y'know, I look forward to every CloudMade tile incorporating a 5,000-strong list of contributors, which swells to 5,001 the next time some retard decides to globally change of shop=groceries to shop= greengrocers or whatever it was. Given that www.whitehouse.gov/change still doesn't have any pointer to CC, at all, then I suspect we're some way off that.

cheers
Richard

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> So, y'know, I look forward to every CloudMade tile incorporating a
> 5,000-strong list of contributors, which swells to 5,001 the next time some
> retard decides to globally change of shop=groceries to shop= greengrocers or
> whatever it was.

One reason we should really flag "bot" accounts - assuming that
mass-changing something into something-other does not earn you any
copyright *even* if original contributions were copyrightable.

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik@...  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

[Nick Black-4]

Regarding White House - I'll persue this from CloudMade's side and ask that they add a link to CC-by-SA.  Please give them some time though :-)

--

Nick

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Frederik Ramm <frederik@...> wrote:

Hi,

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> So, y'know, I look forward to every CloudMade tile incorporating a
> 5,000-strong list of contributors, which swells to 5,001 the next time some
> retard decides to globally change of shop=groceries to shop= greengrocers or
> whatever it was.

One reason we should really flag "bot" accounts - assuming that
mass-changing something into something-other does not earn you any
copyright *even* if original contributions were copyrightable.

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik@...  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk

--
--
Nick Black
twitter.com/nick_b

_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
legal-talk@...
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk