papervision camera formula (was: screen space to 3D space...)

[timbon]

(http://www.nabble.com/screen-space-to-3D-space...-td15355702.html)

Looks like lots of people are confused about papervision cameras and how they compare to real 3D counterparts...
Is the default focal length really 100mm? Anyone got a tutorial out there that explains it?

http://www.nabble.com/Camera-FoV-td11084062.html#a11084062
http://www.nabble.com/Convert-PV3D-zoom---focus-to-Field-of-View---td13530737.html#a13530737
http://www.nabble.com/Understanding-x%2C-y%2C-z%2C-zoom%2C-and-focus-interaction.-td13557494.html#a13557494

[timbon]

Quoting from the 1.5 docs...

Camera3D () constructor
public function Camera3D(target:DisplayObject3D = null, zoom:Number = 2, focus:Number = 100, initObject:Object = null)

 
        ZOOM:Number (default = 2) — This value is a positive number representing the distance of the observer from the front clipping plane, which is the closest any object can be to the camera. Use it in conjunction with ZOOM.



Huh?

[timbon]

Ralph Hauwert says the camera is broken
http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/2007-June/007338.html
Marcelo Muniz found out a formula
http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/2007-June/007428.html
stephen white is not convinced
http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/2007-June/007454.html
John Grden has talked about it but I wonder what he said?
http://www.laflash.org/node/276
tim knip makes a new camera (without example code or a formula?)
http://www.nabble.com/timk_frustum-td15040366.html#a15041741
Judging from this website
http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/technology/fov.html
If I use a FOV of 63 this would equal a standard 35mm Focal Length
camera = new FrustumCamera3D(viewportMain, 63, 10, 2000);
it looks about right but how can I be sure?
Does the GW frustrum camera even work like a true 3D animated camera?
http://home.metrocast.net/%7Echipartist/BlensesSite/Part2.html

[Tim Knip-2]

We've got:

Camera3D : default camera with a target
FreeCamera3D : default camera with no target
=> those two use 'focus' and 'zoom'.
These two values are somewhat arbitrary : you need to find out
yourself whicg settings suits best.

Then we got:

FrustumCamera3D : a camera which us created using a FOV and a viewport.
FOV is as in any 3D camera: so a FOV of 60 _is_ 60, NOT 30.

Agree that documentation could be better :-)

Tim

2008/2/9, timbon <nojunkok@...>:

>
> Ralph Hauwert says the camera is broken
> http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/2007-June/007338.html
> Marcelo Muniz found out a formula
> http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/2007-June/007428.html
> stephen white is not convinced
> http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/2007-June/007454.html
> John Grden has talked about it but I wonder what he said?
> http://www.laflash.org/node/276
> tim knip makes a new camera (without example code or a formula?)
> http://www.nabble.com/timk_frustum-td15040366.html#a15041741
> Judging from this website
> http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/technology/fov.html
> If I use a FOV of 63 this would equal a standard 35mm Focal Length
> camera = new FrustumCamera3D(viewportMain, 63, 10, 2000);
> it looks about right but how can I be sure?
> Does the GW frustrum camera even work like a true 3D animated camera?
> http://home.metrocast.net/%7Echipartist/BlensesSite/Part2.html
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/papervision-camera-formula-%28was%3A-screen-space-to-3D-space...%29-tp15363124p15368063.html
> Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Papervision3D mailing list
> Papervision3D@...
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
>

_______________________________________________
Papervision3D mailing list
Papervision3D@...
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org

[NElizaga]

It's definitely confusing, but I did happen to find a solution for After Effect's camera. In a recent project, we needed a way to compose several images in After Effects and then take all the position/scale properties to papervision and make the scene look the same.

So, to match the PV3D camera to After Effects, you need to use the new FrustrumCamera and set the FOV property to the same as your After Effects camera's Angle of View, BUT set "Measure Film Size" to Vertically. Then you just have to make sure the X and Y positions of your layers and camera match, and you've got a place to lay out your papervision scene :) And, just to note, the Y in papervision is the inverse of the after effects Y. Hope that helps!

-Nicolas

PS - If you plan to lay out scenes in After Effects on a regular basis, I recommend making a script that exports all a composition's layer properties (position, scale, rotation) to an XML file that you can use for Papervision. Or I can just give you the one I did!

timbon wrote:

(http://www.nabble.com/screen-space-to-3D-space...-td15355702.html)

Looks like lots of people are confused about papervision cameras and how they compare to real 3D counterparts...
Is the default focal length really 100mm? Anyone got a tutorial out there that explains it?

http://www.nabble.com/Camera-FoV-td11084062.html#a11084062
http://www.nabble.com/Convert-PV3D-zoom---focus-to-Field-of-View---td13530737.html#a13530737
http://www.nabble.com/Understanding-x%2C-y%2C-z%2C-zoom%2C-and-focus-interaction.-td13557494.html#a13557494

[Roy Wiggins]

Apart from having a real FOV, are there any other uses a FrustrumCamera would be better at than a regular camera?

On Feb 9, 2008 4:59 PM, Tim Knip <tim.knip@...> wrote:

We've got:

Camera3D : default camera with a target
FreeCamera3D : default camera with no target
=> those two use 'focus' and 'zoom'.
These two values are somewhat arbitrary : you need to find out
yourself whicg settings suits best.

Then we got:

FrustumCamera3D : a camera which us created using a FOV and a viewport.
FOV is as in any 3D camera: so a FOV of 60 _is_ 60, NOT 30.

Agree that documentation could be better :-)

Tim

2008/2/9, timbon <nojunkok@...>:

>
> Ralph Hauwert says the camera is broken
> http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/2007-June/007338.html
> Marcelo Muniz found out a formula
> http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/2007-June/007428.html
> stephen white is not convinced
> http://osflash.org/pipermail/papervision3d_osflash.org/2007-June/007454.html
> John Grden has talked about it but I wonder what he said?
> http://www.laflash.org/node/276
> tim knip makes a new camera (without example code or a formula?)
> http://www.nabble.com/timk_frustum-td15040366.html#a15041741
> Judging from this website
> http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/technology/fov.html
> If I use a FOV of 63 this would equal a standard 35mm Focal Length
> camera = new FrustumCamera3D(viewportMain, 63, 10, 2000);
> it looks about right but how can I be sure?
> Does the GW frustrum camera even work like a true 3D animated camera?
> http://home.metrocast.net/%7Echipartist/BlensesSite/Part2.html
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/papervision-camera-formula-%28was%3A-screen-space-to-3D-space...%29-tp15363124p15368063.html
> Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Papervision3D mailing list
> Papervision3D@...
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
>

_______________________________________________
Papervision3D mailing list
Papervision3D@...
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org

_______________________________________________
Papervision3D mailing list
Papervision3D@...
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org

[henke37]

I also want to pitch in about how the cameras is broken: http://www.nabble.com/Cameras-and-aiming-to15321326.html

[dwayneneckles]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Wow, does this mean FrustrumCamera is the best one to you.. since at least operates to the way AE's camerca does...

a new development...

---

> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:10:17 -0800

> From: ne@...
> To: papervision3D@...
> Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] papervision camera formula (was: screen space to 3D space...)
>
>
> It's definitely confusing, but I did happen to find a solution for After
> Effect's camera. In a recent project, we needed a way to compose several
> images in After Effects and then take all the position/scale properties to
> papervision and make the scene look the same.
>
> So, to match the PV3D camera to After Effects, you need to use the new
> FrustrumCamera and set the FOV property to the same as your After Effects
> camera's Angle of View, BUT set "Measure Film Size" to Vertically. Then you
> just have to make sure the X and Y positions of your layers and camera
> match, and you've got a place to lay out your papervision scene :) And, just
> to note, the Y in papervision is the inverse of the after effects Y. Hope
> that helps!
>
> -Nicolas
>
> PS - If you plan to lay out scenes in After Effects on a regular basis, I
> recommend making a script that exports all a composition's layer properties
> (position, scale, rotation) to an XML file that you can use for Papervision.
> Or I can just give you the one I did!
>
>
> timbon wrote:
> >
> > (http://www.nabble.com/screen-space-to-3D-space...-td15355702.html)
> >
> > Looks like lots of people are confused about papervision cameras and how
> > they compare to real 3D counterparts...
> > Is the default focal length really 100mm? Anyone got a tutorial out there
> > that explains it?
> >
> > http://www.nabble.com/Camera-FoV-td11084062.html#a11084062
> > http://www.nabble.com/Convert-PV3D-zoom---focus-to-Field-of-View---td13530737.html#a13530737
> > http://www.nabble.com/Understanding-x%2C-y%2C-z%2C-zoom%2C-and-focus-interaction.-td13557494.html#a13557494
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/papervision-camera-formula-%28was%3A-screen-space-to-3D-space...%29-tp15363124p15393182.html
> Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Papervision3D mailing list
> Papervision3D@...
> http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org

---

Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". Check it out.
_______________________________________________
Papervision3D mailing list
Papervision3D@...
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org

[timbon]

Well the FrustrumCamera seems to be the most '3D' like camera - at least it only has one zoom value.
I would like to see a simple graphic of how a papervision frustrum camera compares to any other 3D animation camera...
http://home.metrocast.net/%7Echipartist/BlensesSite/NewFiles/FOV-Basics.jpg
It is very encouraging that NElizaga (Nicolas) was able to match an ADOBE after effects scene to Papervision. I would love to see the source files or a tutorial on that!

In regards to the original thread (screen space to 3D space...) without a formula to accurately map the FrustumCamera3D perspective distortion in 3D I've resorted to using mouse3D on a plane in front of the camera to attach a 3D object to the mouse at varying depths in 3D scene space.  

[Harley Powers Parks]

Tim or list:

I saw something on the list about setting the windows2003 server
security or setting up an application mime type for dae extension files,
which then allows the dae files to be passed from the server to the
client; but it must be possible to load the geometry on the server side
into the swf.

Tim Knip's example in February
(http://www.ascollada.org/examples/viewer/) must achieve this. Is the
capability of loading the geometry on the server side part of PV3D?


Harley



_______________________________________________
Papervision3D mailing list
Papervision3D@...
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org

[xero]

you can add the .dae mimetype

to your list of supported types

(just class it as an XML file) or

for a simple fix, just change the

file type from .dae to .xml

everything will work the same

and will work serverside (since

xml is already an understood

mime type and the files are

in xml already under the hood!)

____  ___
\   \/  /___________  ____
.\     // __ \_  __ \/ _  \
./     \  ___/ | | \( <_>  )
/___/\  \___  >__|---\____/
|     \_/   \/        |
| xero harrison       |
| xero.nu@...   |
| http://xero.nu      |
| http://fontvir.us   |
| http://0x000000.nu  |
| http://xero.owns.us |
`---------------------'

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Harley Powers Parks" <harley@...>
To: <tim.knip@...>, <papervision3d@...>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:17:32 -1000
Subject: [Papervision3D] Dae mime types and loading geometry on server side
Tim or list:

I saw something on the list about setting the windows2003 server
security or setting up an application mime type for dae extension files,
which then allows the dae files to be passed from the server to the
client; but it must be possible to load the geometry on the server side
into the swf.

Tim Knip's example in February
(http://www.ascollada.org/examples/viewer/) must achieve this. Is the
capability of loading the geometry on the server side part of PV3D?


Harley

_______________________________________________
Papervision3D mailing list
Papervision3D@...
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org

[timbon]

Here's a great reference that describes the formula!
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/samurai_ch2.html
http://download.macromedia.com/pub/devnet/downloads/supersamurai_ch2.pdf
Now we just have to apply it to papervision...
...and I guess this page sums up adobes thoughts on 3D... (pre astro flash 10 that is!)
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/topics/3d.html

[Harley Powers Parks]

Wow, that was good work, and very cool reading. They were just kids back
then.



-----Original Message-----
From: papervision3d-bounces@...
[mailto:papervision3d-bounces@...] On Behalf Of timbon
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:09 PM
To: papervision3D@...
Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] papervision camera formula (was: screen
space to 3D space...)



Here's a great reference that describes the formula!
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/samurai_ch2.html
http://download.macromedia.com/pub/devnet/downloads/supersamurai_ch2.pdf
Now we just have to apply it to papervision...
...and I guess this page sums up adobes thoughts on 3D... (pre astro
flash 10 that is!) http://www.adobe.com/devnet/topics/3d.html
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/papervision-camera-formula-%28was%3A-screen-space-
to-3D-space...%29-tp15363124p16173234.html
Sent from the Papervision3D mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


_______________________________________________
Papervision3D mailing list
Papervision3D@...
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org


_______________________________________________
Papervision3D mailing list
Papervision3D@...
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org