pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers@ -> debian-ruby@?

[Lucas Nussbaum]

Hi,

The ruby-extras team currently uses pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers as
Maintainer: or Uploaders:. I find it annoying to have two Debian/Ruby
lists, which often requires adding Ccs between the list.

I think that we should switch to using only debian-ruby@ for everything
except commit logs (which go to pkg-ruby-extras-commits@). This matches
what the perl team does, and it seems to be totally bearable even for
bigger teams.

What do you think?
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[Ryan Niebur]

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:28:34AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The ruby-extras team currently uses pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers as
> Maintainer: or Uploaders:. I find it annoying to have two Debian/Ruby
> lists, which often requires adding Ccs between the list.
>
> I think that we should switch to using only debian-ruby@ for everything
> except commit logs (which go to pkg-ruby-extras-commits@). This matches
> what the perl team does, and it seems to be totally bearable even for
> bigger teams.
>
> What do you think?

+1

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[Micah Anderson-2]

* Ryan Niebur <ryanryan52@...> [2009-07-29 04:35-0400]:

> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:28:34AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > The ruby-extras team currently uses pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers as
> > Maintainer: or Uploaders:. I find it annoying to have two Debian/Ruby
> > lists, which often requires adding Ccs between the list.
> >
> > I think that we should switch to using only debian-ruby@ for everything
> > except commit logs (which go to pkg-ruby-extras-commits@). This matches
> > what the perl team does, and it seems to be totally bearable even for
> > bigger teams.
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> +1

+3

[Gunnar Wolf]

Micah Anderson dijo [Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 04:49:08AM -0400]:

> > > The ruby-extras team currently uses pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers as
> > > Maintainer: or Uploaders:. I find it annoying to have two Debian/Ruby
> > > lists, which often requires adding Ccs between the list.
> > >
> > > I think that we should switch to using only debian-ruby@ for everything
> > > except commit logs (which go to pkg-ruby-extras-commits@). This matches
> > > what the perl team does, and it seems to be totally bearable even for
> > > bigger teams.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> >
> > +1
>
> +3

*1.3055

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[Vincent Fourmond-4]

  Hello !

Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> I think that we should switch to using only debian-ruby@ for everything
> except commit logs (which go to pkg-ruby-extras-commits@). This matches
> what the perl team does, and it seems to be totally bearable even for
> bigger teams.
>
> What do you think?


  I don't like so much the idea. I can kinda follow debian-ruby. I just
accidentally read pkg-ruby-extra. I'm not interested in dak announcement
and bug reports of packages I don't maintain.

  What is done in debian-java is the following - just like what was done
more or less here so far:

  - general discussion on debian-java
  - package-specific stuff on pkg-java, unless it needs wider attention,
in which case debian-java is the place to go.

  This makes a clear distinction between both lists by potential
interest. I would sincerely wish to keep it like that. Maybe what is
missing is simply a clear statement in this way, on the pkg-ruby-extra
web page (or any other reference place), or maybe even on the
pkg-ruby-extra-maintainers@... footers.

  What do you think about that ?

  Of course, if the group prefer everything on debian-ruby, I'd give in
;-)...

  Cheers,

        Vincent


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Vincent, listening to Curly Headed Baby (Doc Watson)


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[Ryan Niebur]

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:28:34AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The ruby-extras team currently uses pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers as
> Maintainer: or Uploaders:. I find it annoying to have two Debian/Ruby
> lists, which often requires adding Ccs between the list.
>
> I think that we should switch to using only debian-ruby@ for everything
> except commit logs (which go to pkg-ruby-extras-commits@). This matches
> what the perl team does, and it seems to be totally bearable even for
> bigger teams.
>

no, this doesn't match what the Perl team does. what we currently have
matches the Perl team.
pkg-perl-maintainers@... is in Maintainer:
debian-perl@... is for discussion and stuff.
then we have some other commit list that I don't know the email
address of..

this doesn't change my opinion about combining debian-ruby and
pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers. tho I guess it does make sense to have
them separate for people who don't want bug reports and such...it does
seem like we do a lot more cross posting than the Perl group tho, not
sure why this happens...

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[Vincent Fourmond-4]

Gunnar Wolf wrote:

> Vincent Fourmond dijo [Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 10:26:14PM +0200]:
>>> I think that we should switch to using only debian-ruby@ for everything
>>> except commit logs (which go to pkg-ruby-extras-commits@). This matches
>>> what the perl team does, and it seems to be totally bearable even for
>>> bigger teams.
> Umm… That is precisely what Lucas is suggesting :-}
>
> The current situation is that we have two lists (debian-ruby@...
> and pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers@...). The first list is
> for «Discussion of issues related to Ruby on Debian systems with a
> stress on packaging standards. Therefore relevant for maintainers of
> Ruby related packages.»¹. The second one is for «Maintainers of the
> Debian Ruby Extras packages». There is a clear overlap here, as I have
> often seen pkg-ruby-extras discussions in the second, but those
> discussions are quite relevant to Ruby packaging maintainers outside
> our group. Even more, I realized I was not even subscribed to the
> first one!

  Hmmm. No. Unless I completely misunderstood Lucas's post (which is
very possible, I have basic understanding problems ;-)...), what Lucas
proposes is to drop pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers altogether. To this I
strongly object.

  See the quotation from <20090729082834.GC28178@...>

Lucas's initial proposition:
> The ruby-extras team currently uses pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers as
> Maintainer: or Uploaders:. I find it annoying to have two Debian/Ruby
> lists, which often requires adding Ccs between the list.
>
> I think that we should switch to using only debian-ruby@ for everything
> except commit logs (which go to pkg-ruby-extras-commits@). This matches
> what the perl team does, and it seems to be totally bearable even for
> bigger teams.

  Unless I'm very wrong, that means dropping pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers
? Could you clarify, please, Lucas, if you're around ?


> So, basically, we are suggesting moving most, if not all, human
> interaction to debian-ruby (which is also way easier on the eyes), and
> leave the pkg-ruby-extras group one for dak announcement and bug
> reports. Of course, the group members are expected to be in both, but
> they can be sent to different folders - and we will not get so lost
> regarding human discussions (which matter most).

  For me, this is perfect.

  The main problem is the following: sometime users write directly to
pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers, and they expect an answer. Maybe a proper
footer to the list would help ?

  Cheers,

        Vincent

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[Gunnar Wolf]

Vincent Fourmond dijo [Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 09:23:22PM +0200]:

>   Hmmm. No. Unless I completely misunderstood Lucas's post (which is
> very possible, I have basic understanding problems ;-)...), what Lucas
> proposes is to drop pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers altogether. To this I
> strongly object.
>
>   See the quotation from <20090729082834.GC28178@...>
>
> Lucas's initial proposition:
> > The ruby-extras team currently uses pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers as
> > Maintainer: or Uploaders:. I find it annoying to have two Debian/Ruby
> > lists, which often requires adding Ccs between the list.
> >
> > I think that we should switch to using only debian-ruby@ for everything
> > except commit logs (which go to pkg-ruby-extras-commits@). This matches
> > what the perl team does, and it seems to be totally bearable even for
> > bigger teams.
>
>   Unless I'm very wrong, that means dropping pkg-ruby-extras-maintainers
> ? Could you clarify, please, Lucas, if you're around ?

That would be terribly burdensome(?), to say the least. It is the main
maintainer contact address for most of our packages. However, moving
all human discussion to one cleaner, easily followable list
(debian-ruby) and leaving machine-generated mails on the other is a
clear win for me. Of course, I will set some filters up to pick up
anything not coming from the usual suspects (DEHS, Dak et al) in _my_
copy of the lists from pkg-ruby-extras-blah to the human one because,
as you say, users might write directly to it. But for _archival_ and
discussion purposes, it's best.


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[Lucas Nussbaum]

Hi,

OK, let's do the following:
- pkg-ruby-maintainers@:
  + Maintainer/Uploaders: field
  + machine-generated emails (dak, etc) about packages
  + short discussions about package-specific issues, especially when they
    originate from a machine-generated email. If they generalize, they
    should be moved to debian-ruby@
- debian-ruby@:
  + the 'default' list for discussions about ruby packaging in Debian
  + RFS, messages from new team members, etc.

Of course, every team member should be subscribed to both lists, so
cross-posting is useless and discouraged.

Does someone object to the above?

- Lucas


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[Paul van Tilburg]

On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 05:16:15PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:

> OK, let's do the following:
> - pkg-ruby-maintainers@:
>   + Maintainer/Uploaders: field
>   + machine-generated emails (dak, etc) about packages
>   + short discussions about package-specific issues, especially when they
>     originate from a machine-generated email. If they generalize, they
>     should be moved to debian-ruby@
> - debian-ruby@:
>   + the 'default' list for discussions about ruby packaging in Debian
>   + RFS, messages from new team members, etc.
>
> Of course, every team member should be subscribed to both lists, so
> cross-posting is useless and discouraged.
>
> Does someone object to the above?

Actually, that almost how I was doing it already.  So, no
objections here!

Paul

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[Vincent Fourmond-4]

Lucas Nussbaum wrote:

> OK, let's do the following:
> - pkg-ruby-maintainers@:
>   + Maintainer/Uploaders: field
>   + machine-generated emails (dak, etc) about packages
>   + short discussions about package-specific issues, especially when they
>     originate from a machine-generated email. If they generalize, they
>     should be moved to debian-ruby@
> - debian-ruby@:
>   + the 'default' list for discussions about ruby packaging in Debian
>   + RFS, messages from new team members, etc.
>
> Of course, every team member should be subscribed to both lists, so
> cross-posting is useless and discouraged.
>
> Does someone object to the above?

  This is perfect for me. And to exemplify the above, I'm dropping
pkg-ruby in the reply ;-)...

        Vincent

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telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out
how to use my telephone.
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Vincent, not listening to anything for now


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[Gunnar Wolf]

Lucas Nussbaum dijo [Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 05:16:15PM +0200]:

> Hi,
>
> OK, let's do the following:
> - pkg-ruby-maintainers@:
>   + Maintainer/Uploaders: field
>   + machine-generated emails (dak, etc) about packages
>   + short discussions about package-specific issues, especially when they
>     originate from a machine-generated email. If they generalize, they
>     should be moved to debian-ruby@
> - debian-ruby@:
>   + the 'default' list for discussions about ruby packaging in Debian
>   + RFS, messages from new team members, etc.
>
> Of course, every team member should be subscribed to both lists, so
> cross-posting is useless and discouraged.

Fully agree with you. And we should make explicit that we are all
encouraged to be subscribed to p-r-m in order not to miss the bug
reports or any important system announcements - although separating
them in mailboxes will be easier.

Greetings!

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