please review

[Jos Poortvliet-4]

Please review article - fix wording, spelling etc.

Afterwards I will contact daniel, let him have a last look and publish it.

http://dot.kde.org/2009/10/21/kde4-demonstrates-choice-not-usability-problem

Cheers,

Jos

(ps sebas: good hint, that guy is a great writer!)


 
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On Wednesday, 2009-10-21, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> Please review article - fix wording, spelling etc.
>
> Afterwards I will contact daniel, let him have a last look and publish it.
>
> http://dot.kde.org/2009/10/21/kde4-demonstrates-choice-not-usability-proble
> m

I really think you should reconsider having this as a dot article.
While I agree that some of the presented features make *my* life easier, they
might not be the best examples of usability or interface design.

For example the toolbar configuration is a nice feature but I don't think the
dialog itself can be considered to be user friendly (something like dragging
actions to the exact position on the toolbar maybe).

The drop action menu is also nice but as somebody pointed out in the comment
section, also available on GNOME (by holding ALT) which somebody else
commented on that it would be too hidden.
This is only slightly better on KDE where the modifier to hold in order not to
get the menu is visible in the menu.

I know that Celeste posted a link to the blog on kde-usability, probably
because it is a good article overall, but maybe she (or one of the other
domain experts) could have a quick thumbs-up/thumbs-down check on each of the
presented items before they are part of an "offical" KDE news item.

Cheers,
Kevin

--
Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer
KDE user support, developer mentoring


 
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[Stuart Jarvis]

On Wednesday 21 October 2009 12:11:46 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> Please review article - fix wording, spelling etc.
>
Going in for an edit now

> Afterwards I will contact daniel, let him have a last look and publish it.
>
> http://dot.kde.org/2009/10/21/kde4-demonstrates-choice-not-usability-proble
> m
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jos
>
> (ps sebas: good hint, that guy is a great writer!)
>

 
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[Jos Poortvliet-4]

On Wednesday 21 October 2009 13:36:26 Kevin Krammer wrote:

> On Wednesday, 2009-10-21, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > Please review article - fix wording, spelling etc.
> >
> > Afterwards I will contact daniel, let him have a last look and publish
> > it.
> >
> > http://dot.kde.org/2009/10/21/kde4-demonstrates-choice-not-usability-prob
> >le m
>
> I really think you should reconsider having this as a dot article.
> While I agree that some of the presented features make *my* life easier,
>  they might not be the best examples of usability or interface design.
>
> For example the toolbar configuration is a nice feature but I don't think
>  the dialog itself can be considered to be user friendly (something like
>  dragging actions to the exact position on the toolbar maybe).
>
> The drop action menu is also nice but as somebody pointed out in the
>  comment section, also available on GNOME (by holding ALT) which somebody
>  else commented on that it would be too hidden.
> This is only slightly better on KDE where the modifier to hold in order not
>  to get the menu is visible in the menu.
>
> I know that Celeste posted a link to the blog on kde-usability, probably
> because it is a good article overall, but maybe she (or one of the other
> domain experts) could have a quick thumbs-up/thumbs-down check on each of
>  the presented items before they are part of an "offical" KDE news item.
>
> Cheers,
> Kevin

While I would indeed appreciate Celeste's opinion, this is not OUR work but
the opinion of somebody from outside our community. Whatever he considers
usable is his personal idea. Besides, the point was that he did notice our
efforts to 'have our cake and eat it too', which is why I am glad he wanted to
do this piece - this is worth promoting.

So we could add a short piece from Celeste, detailing other, better examples,
but overall I wouldn't want to change what he wrote. It's not up to us to
dictate what somebody else things - it's a guest article.

I would however love some other opinions on this.

Cheers,

Jos


 
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[Stuart Jarvis]

On Wednesday 21 October 2009 12:39:35 Stuart Jarvis wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 October 2009 12:11:46 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > Please review article - fix wording, spelling etc.
>
> Going in for an edit now
>
Done editing.

Just some minor changes - here are some that might be up for debate:

Changed: its [KDE's] flag product Konqueror -> one of its flagship products
(i.e. _one_ of rather than _the_ and I'm not familiar with "flag product" ->
flagship in british english but it might vary elsewhere.

Also, changed KDE4 -> KDE 4 (not sure if there's a policy on this, but Jos'
intro had "KDE 4").

I've also changed *typical* to <em>typical</em> (I know * normally signifies
bold, but in this context emphasis/italics seemed better).

I was going to linkify his sites at the end too, but a couple of them aren't
loading for me at the moment so I didn't.

Stu

> > Afterwards I will contact daniel, let him have a last look and publish
> > it.
> >
> > http://dot.kde.org/2009/10/21/kde4-demonstrates-choice-not-usability-prob
> >le m
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jos
> >
> > (ps sebas: good hint, that guy is a great writer!)
>

 
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[Jos Poortvliet-4]

On Wednesday 21 October 2009 14:02:51 Stuart Jarvis wrote:

> On Wednesday 21 October 2009 12:39:35 Stuart Jarvis wrote:
> > On Wednesday 21 October 2009 12:11:46 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > > Please review article - fix wording, spelling etc.
> >
> > Going in for an edit now
>
> Done editing.
>
> Just some minor changes - here are some that might be up for debate:
>
> Changed: its [KDE's] flag product Konqueror -> one of its flagship products
> (i.e. _one_ of rather than _the_ and I'm not familiar with "flag product"
>  -> flagship in british english but it might vary elsewhere.
>
> Also, changed KDE4 -> KDE 4 (not sure if there's a policy on this, but Jos'
> intro had "KDE 4").
>
> I've also changed *typical* to <em>typical</em> (I know * normally
>  signifies bold, but in this context emphasis/italics seemed better).

None of those should be a problem at all. Thanks for the review!

> I was going to linkify his sites at the end too, but a couple of them
>  aren't loading for me at the moment so I didn't.

Ok, I'll have a look. Then I'll wait for more opinions on what Kevin wrote.

> Stu
>
> > > Afterwards I will contact daniel, let him have a last look and publish
> > > it.
> > >
> > > http://dot.kde.org/2009/10/21/kde4-demonstrates-choice-not-usability-pr
> > >ob le m
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Jos
> > >
> > > (ps sebas: good hint, that guy is a great writer!)
>
> _______________________________________________
> This message is from the kde-promo mailing list.
>
> Visit https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo to unsubscribe, set
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>

 
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[Stuart Jarvis]

On Wednesday 21 October 2009 12:59:39 Jos Poortvliet wrote:

> On Wednesday 21 October 2009 13:36:26 Kevin Krammer wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 2009-10-21, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > > Please review article - fix wording, spelling etc.
> > >
> > > Afterwards I will contact daniel, let him have a last look and publish
> > > it.
> > >
> > > http://dot.kde.org/2009/10/21/kde4-demonstrates-choice-not-usability-pr
> > >ob le m
> >
> > I really think you should reconsider having this as a dot article.
> > While I agree that some of the presented features make *my* life easier,
> >  they might not be the best examples of usability or interface design.
> >

I think the point is that they make the writer's life easier. I don't see the
article as KDE saying we've solved all usability problems but rather as
someone who says he's preferred Gnome in the past taking a fresh look at KDE 4
and quite liking some of the new bits and pieces.
> >
> > I know that Celeste posted a link to the blog on kde-usability, probably
> > because it is a good article overall, but maybe she (or one of the other
> > domain experts) could have a quick thumbs-up/thumbs-down check on each of
> >  the presented items before they are part of an "offical" KDE news item.
> >
Sure, worth checking.
>
> While I would indeed appreciate Celeste's opinion, this is not OUR work but
> the opinion of somebody from outside our community. Whatever he considers
> usable is his personal idea. Besides, the point was that he did notice our
> efforts to 'have our cake and eat it too', which is why I am glad he wanted
>  to do this piece - this is worth promoting.

Ok, I guess I just kinda reiterated that above (should really read the whole
mail/response before I reply).

Stu
>
> So we could add a short piece from Celeste, detailing other, better
>  examples, but overall I wouldn't want to change what he wrote. It's not up
>  to us to dictate what somebody else things - it's a guest article.

> I would however love some other opinions on this.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jos
>
 
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[Celeste Lyn Paul]

I would maybe make clearer that this is a new article from the same
author of the review. At first I thought you guys were just reposting
the article which could lead to confusion.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Stuart Jarvis <stuart.jarvis@...> wrote:

> On Wednesday 21 October 2009 12:59:39 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
>> On Wednesday 21 October 2009 13:36:26 Kevin Krammer wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, 2009-10-21, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
>> > > Please review article - fix wording, spelling etc.
>> > >
>> > > Afterwards I will contact daniel, let him have a last look and publish
>> > > it.
>> > >
>> > > http://dot.kde.org/2009/10/21/kde4-demonstrates-choice-not-usability-pr
>> > >ob le m
>> >
>> > I really think you should reconsider having this as a dot article.
>> > While I agree that some of the presented features make *my* life easier,
>> >  they might not be the best examples of usability or interface design.
>> >
> I think the point is that they make the writer's life easier. I don't see the
> article as KDE saying we've solved all usability problems but rather as
> someone who says he's preferred Gnome in the past taking a fresh look at KDE 4
> and quite liking some of the new bits and pieces.
>> >
>> > I know that Celeste posted a link to the blog on kde-usability, probably
>> > because it is a good article overall, but maybe she (or one of the other
>> > domain experts) could have a quick thumbs-up/thumbs-down check on each of
>> >  the presented items before they are part of an "offical" KDE news item.
>> >
> Sure, worth checking.
>>
>> While I would indeed appreciate Celeste's opinion, this is not OUR work but
>> the opinion of somebody from outside our community. Whatever he considers
>> usable is his personal idea. Besides, the point was that he did notice our
>> efforts to 'have our cake and eat it too', which is why I am glad he wanted
>>  to do this piece - this is worth promoting.
>
> Ok, I guess I just kinda reiterated that above (should really read the whole
> mail/response before I reply).
>
> Stu
>>
>> So we could add a short piece from Celeste, detailing other, better
>>  examples, but overall I wouldn't want to change what he wrote. It's not up
>>  to us to dictate what somebody else things - it's a guest article.
>
>> I would however love some other opinions on this.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jos
>>
>

--
Celeste Lyn Paul
KDE Usability Project
KDE e.V. Board of Directors
www.kde.org
 
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[Jos Poortvliet-4]

On Wednesday 21 October 2009 14:26:33 Celeste Lyn Paul wrote:
> I would maybe make clearer that this is a new article from the same
> author of the review. At first I thought you guys were just reposting
> the article which could lead to confusion.

The introduction is not clear enough on this?


(for reference:
A few days ago we found a nice blog post on the usability approach taken by
the KDE community for the KDE 4 series. We have contacted the author to see if
he was interested in doing a guest article for the dot expanding on his blog
post. So without further ado, I present a writing by Daniel Memenode, web
publisher and designer.
)


 
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On Wednesday 21 October 2009 13:11:46 Jos Poortvliet wrote:

> Please review article - fix wording, spelling etc.
>
> Afterwards I will contact daniel, let him have a last look and publish it.
>
> http://dot.kde.org/2009/10/21/kde4-demonstrates-choice-not-usability-proble
> m
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jos
>
> (ps sebas: good hint, that guy is a great writer!)

Yes, it's a really nice article and should go up on the Dot IMO.

In the title, is shouldbe "a usability", not "an usability" ("an" is only used for
contraction).
--
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9
 
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[Troy Unrau]

2009/10/21 Sebastian Kügler <sebas@...>:
> In the title, is shouldbe "a usability", not "an usability" ("an" is only used for
> contraction).
"An" is used for any noun starting with a vowel, plus some special
cases ("an historic"). In this case, "An" is correct, although it
sounds wrong.

> sebas

--
Troy Unrau, B.Sc.G.Sc.(Hons.)
Planetary Sciences Student - University of Western Ontario
 
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On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:22:54 -0400 Troy Unrau <troy.unrau@...> wrote:
>2009/10/21 Sebastian Kügler <sebas@...>:
>> In the title, is shouldbe "a usability", not "an usability" ("an" is only used for
>> contraction).
>"An" is used for any noun starting with a vowel, plus some special
>cases ("an historic"). In this case, "An" is correct, although it
>sounds wrong.

I think it's a British/US English difference.  In British English, AFAIK, it's 'an' and in American English it's 'a'.  The general rule you cite is, of course, correct.  I don't recall why this is an exception.

Scott K
 
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[Gary L. Greene, Jr.-3]

On 10/21/09 1:53 PM, "Scott Kitterman" <kde@...> wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:22:54 -0400 Troy Unrau <troy.unrau@...> wrote:
>> 2009/10/21 Sebastian Kügler <sebas@...>:
>>> In the title, is shouldbe "a usability", not "an usability" ("an" is only
>>> used for
>>> contraction).
>> "An" is used for any noun starting with a vowel, plus some special
>> cases ("an historic"). In this case, "An" is correct, although it
>> sounds wrong.
>
> I think it's a British/US English difference.  In British English, AFAIK, it's
> 'an' and in American English it's 'a'.  The general rule you cite is, of
> course, correct.  I don't recall why this is an exception.
>
> Scott K

The exception in US English for that is applied to words starting with 'us'.
When a word starts with 'us', it's normal to say "a usability test" or "to
make a use of" or "that's a usable idea". This is one of those cases where
US and British English diverged, where Canadian English tends more toward
British than US.

--
Gary L. Greene, Jr.
==========================================================================
Developer and Project Lead for the AltimatOS open source project
Volunteer Developer for the KDE open source project
See http://www.altimatos.com/ and http://www.kde.org/ for more information
==========================================================================

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.

--
Gary L. Greene, Jr.
IT Operations
Minerva Networks, Inc.
Cell:  [phone]
Phone: [phone]


 
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On Wednesday 21 October 2009, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:22:54 -0400 Troy Unrau <troy.unrau@...>
wrote:

> >2009/10/21 Sebastian Kügler <sebas@...>:
> >> In the title, is shouldbe "a usability", not "an usability" ("an"
> >> is only used for contraction).
> >
> >"An" is used for any noun starting with a vowel, plus some special
> >cases ("an historic"). In this case, "An" is correct, although it
> >sounds wrong.
>
> I think it's a British/US English difference.  In British English,
> AFAIK, it's 'an' and in American English it's 'a'.  The general rule
> you cite is, of course, correct.  I don't recall why this is an
> exception.

It's not an exception and it's not a GB/US English difference. The
ordinary (written) spelling of "usability" is irrelevant. It's the
phonetic spelling of "usability" that you have to look at. "usability"
does _not_ start with a vowel in phonetic spelling, but with the
consonant 'j' just like "yes" or "you". Therefore, as far as I have
learned, "a usability" is correct while "an usability" is wrong.

This Wikipedia article (yes, I know that Wikipedia is not an
authoritative source) supports my understanding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_and_an


Regards,
Ingo


 
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[Jos Poortvliet-4]

On Wednesday 21 October 2009 23:28:30 Ingo Klöcker wrote:

> On Wednesday 21 October 2009, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:22:54 -0400 Troy Unrau <troy.unrau@...>
>
> wrote:
> > >2009/10/21 Sebastian Kügler <sebas@...>:
> > >> In the title, is shouldbe "a usability", not "an usability" ("an"
> > >> is only used for contraction).
> > >
> > >"An" is used for any noun starting with a vowel, plus some special
> > >cases ("an historic"). In this case, "An" is correct, although it
> > >sounds wrong.
> >
> > I think it's a British/US English difference.  In British English,
> > AFAIK, it's 'an' and in American English it's 'a'.  The general rule
> > you cite is, of course, correct.  I don't recall why this is an
> > exception.
>
> It's not an exception and it's not a GB/US English difference. The
> ordinary (written) spelling of "usability" is irrelevant. It's the
> phonetic spelling of "usability" that you have to look at. "usability"
> does _not_ start with a vowel in phonetic spelling, but with the
> consonant 'j' just like "yes" or "you". Therefore, as far as I have
> learned, "a usability" is correct while "an usability" is wrong.
>
> This Wikipedia article (yes, I know that Wikipedia is not an
> authoritative source) supports my understanding:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_and_an

Interesting. As troy noted, it sounds wrong, so I guess I should've followed
my instinct ;-)

>
> Regards,
> Ingo
>


 
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