polychaete tissue samples

[Jan Strugnell]

Dear Annelid scientists!

My name is Jan Strugnell and I am currently working on a Census of Marine Life initiative investigating species that have been suggested to be present at both polar regions (and possibly cosmopolitan) in their distribution.   I include a list of polychaetes below which have been suggested to be present in the Arctic and Antarctic. 

I am trying to track down tissue samples of these polychaetes from both poles (and also places in between where they exist) that have been fixed in ethanol or frozen and could be used for DNA barcoding (through the Guelph barcoding facility).

I was wondering if any of you had any of these samples, (stored in ethanol or frozen) that could be barcoded for this project?  Only a tiny piece of tissue would be required.

Yours sincerely,

Jan

Jan Strugnell
Lloyd's Tercentenary Fellow
Department of Zoology
University of Cambridge
Downing Street
Cambridge CB2 3EJ  UK

http://www.zoo.cam.ac.uk/zoostaff/amos/new/meg/jan.html

Capitellida         Maldane sarsi Malmgren, 1865 

Eunicida                Eunice pennata (O.F. Müller, 1776)

Eunicida                Hyalinoecia tubicola (O.F. Müller, 1776) 

Eunicida                Lumbrineris tetraura (Schmarda, 1861)

Flabelligerida       Brada villosa (Rathke, 1843)

Opheliida Ophelina cylindricaudata (Hansen, 1878)

Orbiniida Levinsenia gracilis (Tauber, 1879)

Oweniida Myriochele heeri Malmgren, 1867 

Phyllodocida Ceratocephale loveni Malmgren, 1867

Phyllodocida Eucranta villosa Malmgren, 1866

Phyllodocida Glycera capitata Örsted, 1843 

Phyllodocida Harmothoe impar (Johnston, 1839)

Phyllodocida Kefersteinia cirrata (Keferstein, 1862)

Phyllodocida Laetmonice filicornis Kinberg, 1856

Phyllodocida Pelagobia longicirrata Gravier, 1911

Phyllodocida Phalacrophorus pictus Greeff, 1879

Phyllodocida Syllis armillaris (O.F. Müller, 1776) 

Phyllodocida Syllis cornuta Rathke, 1843

Phyllodocida Tomopteris septentrionalis  Steenstrup, 1849

Phyllodocida Typhloscolex muelleri Busch, 1851

Spionida Aphelochaeta marioni (de Saint-Joseph, 1894)

Spionida Laonice cirrata (M. Sars, 1851)

Terebellida Amphicteis gunneri (Sars, 1835)

Terebellida Amphitrite cirrata O. F. Müller, 1771 in 1776

Terebellida Artacama proboscidea Malmgren, 1866

Terebellida Lysilla loveni Malmgren, 1866

Terebellida Thelepus cincinnatus (Fabricius, 1780)

Terebellida Trichobranchus glacialis Malmgren, 1866

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[Geoff Read]

Hi Jan & all,

I note my non-worm colleagues at my institute are also receiving
similar requests for their taxa. I would like to see a more detailed
science rationale for this project divorced from the  press release &
intro I see at www.caml.aq.  (quote "... highlighted 235 species
co-occurring in both polar regions. CAML identified this as a key
discovery"  end quote. A discovery?  Hopefully based on more than the
same names turning up in old monographs, or as quickly identified from
keys by non-specialists)  Such as is there an ocean currents mechanism
that would carry larvae from pole to pole in biologically realistic
time?  Is there a project proposal document available outlining the
science?

In the case of the polychaetes the list appears taxonomically naive,
consisting almost entirely of 19th century names (which may lack a
modern taxonomic revision). Who made this list? For instance  Fauchald
1992 said in his revision that for Eunice pennata, type locality
Oslofjord, Antarctic records "have yet to be confirmed" (that usually
means in polite taxonomic speak such records are unbelievable), whereas
Orensanz's (1990) description was based only on the Antarctic material
without comparing the northern entity.  Score that one taxonomically
confused, noting neither made the claim it was bi-polar. I doubt that
any taxonomic expert  seriously thinks any of the polychaetes listed
really are at both poles (well there may be some support for at least
one species). That said it would be excellent, repeat EXCELLENT, to
collaborate to investigate certain related taxa molecularly, but without
buying into the bi-polar idea. Hyalinoecia tubicola and closely allied
taxa for example. Would love to see what is going on with that, but
there seems to be only one CO1 accession yet. Also I have some doubt on
whether Hyalinoecia spp fit the criteria by extending to the Antarctic
(or Arctic) proper. We haven't found them in the Ross Sea yet, though
there are plenty in NZ waters on the continental slopes to about 50 deg
S, and Orensanz didn't report them on the Antarctic Peninsula, although
there is one Smithsonian record from there. I can't see any Arctic
records in Obis at a quick look. So how did it get in the list? Anyway
it doesn't look like we've got ethanol-fixed even from local seas but I
will check again.

One exception with modern support that I noticed is Glycera capitata,
apparently the only Antarctic Glycera species, and which Markus
Böggemann (2002) was unable to subdivide in his revision, attributing
Arctic and Antarctic material to it. The distribution is really
disjunct, and the natural suggestion would be that the Southern
hemisphere has a different species - would like to see that tested. NIWA
does have ethanol-fixed Antarctic tissue we will make available (along
with whatever else will be useful).

Geoff

>>> On 5/11/2009 at 2:15 a.m., Jan Strugnell
<jan.strugnell@...> wrote:
> Dear Annelid scientists!
>
>
> My name is Jan Strugnell and I am currently working on a Census of  
> Marine Life initiative investigating species that have been suggested
 
> to be present at both polar regions (and possibly cosmopolitan) in  
> their distribution.   I include a list of polychaetes below which
have  
> been suggested to be present in the Arctic and Antarctic.
>
> I am trying to track down tissue samples of these polychaetes from  
> both poles (and also places in between where they exist) that have  
> been fixed in ethanol or frozen and could be used for DNA barcoding

> (through the Guelph barcoding facility).
>
> I was wondering if any of you had any of these samples, (stored in  
> ethanol or frozen) that could be barcoded for this project?  Only a

> tiny piece of tissue would be required.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Jan
>
> Jan Strugnell
> Lloyd's Tercentenary Fellow
> Department of Zoology
> University of Cambridge
> Downing Street
> Cambridge CB2 3EJ UK
>
> http://www.zoo.cam.ac.uk/zoostaff/amos/new/meg/jan.html 
>
> Capitellida         Maldane

sarsi Malmgren, 1865
>
> Eunicida                Eunice
pennata (O.F. Müller, 1776)
>
> Eunicida                Hyalinoecia tubicola (O.F.
Müller, 1776)
>
> Eunicida                Lumbrineris
tetraura (Schmarda, 1861)
>
> Flabelligerida       Brada
villosa (Rathke, 1843)
>
> Opheliida Ophelina cylindricaudata (Hansen,
1878)
>
> Orbiniida Levinsenia gracilis (Tauber,
1879)
>
> Oweniida Myriochele
heeri Malmgren, 1867
>
> Phyllodocida Ceratocephale
loveni Malmgren, 1867
>
> Phyllodocida Eucranta
villosa Malmgren, 1866
>
> Phyllodocida Glycera
capitata Örsted, 1843
>
> Phyllodocida Harmothoe
impar (Johnston, 1839)
>
> Phyllodocida Kefersteinia
cirrata (Keferstein, 1862)
>
> Phyllodocida Laetmonice filicornis Kinberg,
1856
>
> Phyllodocida Pelagobia longicirrata Gravier, 1911
>
> Phyllodocida Phalacrophorus pictus Greeff, 1879
>
> Phyllodocida Syllis
armillaris (O.F. Müller, 1776)
>
> Phyllodocida Syllis cornuta Rathke,
1843
>
> Phyllodocida Tomopteris septentrionalis Steenstrup,
1849
>
> Phyllodocida Typhloscolex muelleri Busch,
1851
>
> Spionida Aphelochaeta marioni (de
Saint-Joseph, 1894)
>
> Spionida Laonice cirrata (M.
Sars, 1851)
>
> Terebellida Amphicteis gunneri (Sars,
1835)
>
> Terebellida Amphitrite
cirrata O. F. Müller, 1771 in
1776
>
> Terebellida Artacama proboscidea Malmgren, 1866
>
> Terebellida Lysilla
loveni Malmgren, 1866
>
> Terebellida Thelepus
cincinnatus (Fabricius, 1780)
>
> Terebellida Trichobranchus
glacialis Malmgren, 1866



--

 Geoff Read <g.read@...>
   http://www.annelida.net/
  http://www.niwa.co.nz/about-niwa
 ***************************


NIWA is the trading name of the National Institute of Water &
Atmospheric Research Ltd.

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Resources: http://www.annelida.net

[Fauchald, Kristian]

OK, I was planning to do something about this, but since my name has been taken in vain, I would like to make some comments.  Most of the polychaetes were put on the list by polychaete people from about 1880 through 1920, including Ehlers, but especially Hermann Augener who had a bee in his bonnet about this issue.  The reason why the list looks old-fashioned is that it is:  Mainly the issue ended up being that Malmgren and others described the species from Scandinavia and especially from the Arctic during the period when people were running around looking for the Northwest or the Northeast Passage. Antarctic exploration was a few years later and as a consequence the scientists (not unreasonable) would use what literature was available. Furthermore, we ended up in a period when what was referred to as "minor differences" were disregarded, sometimes correctly, sometimes not.  Later scientists have sorted out some of the matter, but a fair bit needs to be done, and we need new material since obviously molecular techniques will be needed to resolve many issues.
   I have to look in detail at the list, if I am going to come up with something sensible as a sort of start,  and will do so later this week (I am moving office and am in absolute chaos for the time being).

Kristian Fauchald

-----Original Message-----
From: annelida-bounces@... [mailto:annelida-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Geoff Read
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:16 PM
To: Jan Strugnell; annelida@...
Subject: Re: [Annelida] polychaete tissue samples

Hi Jan & all,

I note my non-worm colleagues at my institute are also receiving
similar requests for their taxa. I would like to see a more detailed
science rationale for this project divorced from the  press release &
intro I see at www.caml.aq.  (quote "... highlighted 235 species
co-occurring in both polar regions. CAML identified this as a key
discovery"  end quote. A discovery?  Hopefully based on more than the
same names turning up in old monographs, or as quickly identified from
keys by non-specialists)  Such as is there an ocean currents mechanism
that would carry larvae from pole to pole in biologically realistic
time?  Is there a project proposal document available outlining the
science?

In the case of the polychaetes the list appears taxonomically naive,
consisting almost entirely of 19th century names (which may lack a
modern taxonomic revision). Who made this list? For instance  Fauchald
1992 said in his revision that for Eunice pennata, type locality
Oslofjord, Antarctic records "have yet to be confirmed" (that usually
means in polite taxonomic speak such records are unbelievable), whereas
Orensanz's (1990) description was based only on the Antarctic material
without comparing the northern entity.  Score that one taxonomically
confused, noting neither made the claim it was bi-polar. I doubt that
any taxonomic expert  seriously thinks any of the polychaetes listed
really are at both poles (well there may be some support for at least
one species). That said it would be excellent, repeat EXCELLENT, to
collaborate to investigate certain related taxa molecularly, but without
buying into the bi-polar idea. Hyalinoecia tubicola and closely allied
taxa for example. Would love to see what is going on with that, but
there seems to be only one CO1 accession yet. Also I have some doubt on
whether Hyalinoecia spp fit the criteria by extending to the Antarctic
(or Arctic) proper. We haven't found them in the Ross Sea yet, though
there are plenty in NZ waters on the continental slopes to about 50 deg
S, and Orensanz didn't report them on the Antarctic Peninsula, although
there is one Smithsonian record from there. I can't see any Arctic
records in Obis at a quick look. So how did it get in the list? Anyway
it doesn't look like we've got ethanol-fixed even from local seas but I
will check again.

One exception with modern support that I noticed is Glycera capitata,
apparently the only Antarctic Glycera species, and which Markus
Böggemann (2002) was unable to subdivide in his revision, attributing
Arctic and Antarctic material to it. The distribution is really
disjunct, and the natural suggestion would be that the Southern
hemisphere has a different species - would like to see that tested. NIWA
does have ethanol-fixed Antarctic tissue we will make available (along
with whatever else will be useful).

Geoff

>>> On 5/11/2009 at 2:15 a.m., Jan Strugnell
<jan.strugnell@...> wrote:
> Dear Annelid scientists!
>
>
> My name is Jan Strugnell and I am currently working on a Census of  
> Marine Life initiative investigating species that have been suggested
 
> to be present at both polar regions (and possibly cosmopolitan) in  
> their distribution.   I include a list of polychaetes below which
have  
> been suggested to be present in the Arctic and Antarctic.
>
> I am trying to track down tissue samples of these polychaetes from  
> both poles (and also places in between where they exist) that have  
> been fixed in ethanol or frozen and could be used for DNA barcoding

> (through the Guelph barcoding facility).
>
> I was wondering if any of you had any of these samples, (stored in  
> ethanol or frozen) that could be barcoded for this project?  Only a

> tiny piece of tissue would be required.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Jan
>
> Jan Strugnell
> Lloyd's Tercentenary Fellow
> Department of Zoology
> University of Cambridge
> Downing Street
> Cambridge CB2 3EJ UK
>
> http://www.zoo.cam.ac.uk/zoostaff/amos/new/meg/jan.html 
>
> Capitellida         Maldane

sarsi Malmgren, 1865
>
> Eunicida                Eunice
pennata (O.F. Müller, 1776)
>
> Eunicida                Hyalinoecia tubicola (O.F.
Müller, 1776)
>
> Eunicida                Lumbrineris
tetraura (Schmarda, 1861)
>
> Flabelligerida       Brada
villosa (Rathke, 1843)
>
> Opheliida Ophelina cylindricaudata (Hansen,
1878)
>
> Orbiniida Levinsenia gracilis (Tauber,
1879)
>
> Oweniida Myriochele
heeri Malmgren, 1867
>
> Phyllodocida Ceratocephale
loveni Malmgren, 1867
>
> Phyllodocida Eucranta
villosa Malmgren, 1866
>
> Phyllodocida Glycera
capitata Örsted, 1843
>
> Phyllodocida Harmothoe
impar (Johnston, 1839)
>
> Phyllodocida Kefersteinia
cirrata (Keferstein, 1862)
>
> Phyllodocida Laetmonice filicornis Kinberg,
1856
>
> Phyllodocida Pelagobia longicirrata Gravier, 1911
>
> Phyllodocida Phalacrophorus pictus Greeff, 1879
>
> Phyllodocida Syllis
armillaris (O.F. Müller, 1776)
>
> Phyllodocida Syllis cornuta Rathke,
1843
>
> Phyllodocida Tomopteris septentrionalis Steenstrup,
1849
>
> Phyllodocida Typhloscolex muelleri Busch,
1851
>
> Spionida Aphelochaeta marioni (de
Saint-Joseph, 1894)
>
> Spionida Laonice cirrata (M.
Sars, 1851)
>
> Terebellida Amphicteis gunneri (Sars,
1835)
>
> Terebellida Amphitrite
cirrata O. F. Müller, 1771 in
1776
>
> Terebellida Artacama proboscidea Malmgren, 1866
>
> Terebellida Lysilla
loveni Malmgren, 1866
>
> Terebellida Thelepus
cincinnatus (Fabricius, 1780)
>
> Terebellida Trichobranchus
glacialis Malmgren, 1866



--

 Geoff Read <g.read@...>
   http://www.annelida.net/
  http://www.niwa.co.nz/about-niwa
 ***************************


NIWA is the trading name of the National Institute of Water &
Atmospheric Research Ltd.

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Post: Annelida@...
Help/archive: http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/annelida
Resources: http://www.annelida.net

_______________________________________________
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Resources: http://www.annelida.net

[Geoff Read]

Hi all,

I wanted to spark some discussion & useful clarification rather than for anyone involved to feel defensive about the project. I thank Kristian & Louise for their responses. No disrespect was intended, and Kristian's name came up only in relation to comments he made in a past work which I rather flippantly interpreted. I wasn't aware he was also linked to the project. More anon from me maybe, but feel free to contribute if you have information or opinions on bi-polarity of sessile polar invertebrates, and meantime ponder this:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16609-ocean-survey-reveals-hundreds-of-bipolar-species.html 

"The 235 species that WE BELIEVE are found at both poles include a great variety of animals, says Julian Gutt of the Alfred Wegner Institute for Polar and Marine Research in Germany."

Worrying, since it's been explained it really isn't believed that is the case, and once again I obviously should not take the science or the journalistic hype in such press releases so literally. Unfortunately the general public will. Why wouldn't they?

Geoff




NIWA is the trading name of the National Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research Ltd.

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