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qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
hi rui, hi *!
two hosts connected via netjack. local host uses qjackctl.
now ssh -X into remote host, start qjackctl and hope for a forwarded
window. no luck. all that happens is that the *local* qjackctl window
pops up.
this doesn't happen with other gui apps. i use several xosviews on
several hosts frequently without problems.
any guesses as to what might be going on?
best,
jörn
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
2009/10/29 Jörn Nettingsmeier < nettings@...>:
> hi rui, hi *!
>
>
> two hosts connected via netjack. local host uses qjackctl.
> now ssh -X into remote host, start qjackctl and hope for a forwarded
> window. no luck. all that happens is that the *local* qjackctl window
> pops up.
>
> this doesn't happen with other gui apps. i use several xosviews on
> several hosts frequently without problems.
>
> any guesses as to what might be going on?
guess; Qt is trying to be way too clever.
firefox does sort of the same thing - it registers some kind of
service handle with the X server, and when starting up on a given
display, a new firefox looks to see if the service already exists on
that X server.
just a guess.
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
Hi,
On Thursday 29 October 2009 15:18:09 Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
> two hosts connected via netjack. local host uses qjackctl.
> now ssh -X into remote host, start qjackctl and hope for a forwarded
> window. no luck. all that happens is that the *local* qjackctl window
> pops up.
> this doesn't happen with other gui apps. i use several xosviews on
> several hosts frequently without problems.
> any guesses as to what might be going on?
Just a guess, I haven't looked at the source:
Probably all those "use one app only per X-session" check with the X-session
whether an instance by that name is already running. If yes, they just make it
focus, otherwise the app is started.
As with "ssh -X" or "ssh -Y" (later is more secure) the X-session of your
local machine is accessible from the remote machine, the remote qjackctl
checks whether an app named qjackctl is running and quits itself again...
Running multiple qjackctl instances is probably difficult at least when using
the systray icon.
Have fun,
Arnold
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 10:35:30AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> 2009/10/29 Jörn Nettingsmeier < nettings@...>:
> > hi rui, hi *!
> >
> >
> > two hosts connected via netjack. local host uses qjackctl.
> > now ssh -X into remote host, start qjackctl and hope for a forwarded
> > window. no luck. all that happens is that the *local* qjackctl window
> > pops up.
> >
> > this doesn't happen with other gui apps. i use several xosviews on
> > several hosts frequently without problems.
> >
> > any guesses as to what might be going on?
>
> guess; Qt is trying to be way too clever.
>
> firefox does sort of the same thing - it registers some kind of
> service handle with the X server, and when starting up on a given
> display, a new firefox looks to see if the service already exists on
> that X server.
Other guess: your WM trying to be clever. It could recognise
the window of the remote app, think you want to local one and
move that to the current workspace which could result in the
two windows on top of each other.
Something like that (but harmless) happens in WindowMaker.
When you have an app icon for e.g. qjakctl, then launch it
on a remote machine, the icons 'start by double click'
function doesn't work anymore because wm thinks the app
is already running (you can still start on the icon's
menu).
Ciao,
--
FA
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Arnold Krille wrote:
> Running multiple qjackctl instances is probably difficult at least when
> using the systray icon.
++
Digging in the source, both main.cpp and the tray icon is querying the
local X Server. This makes sense, because the whole idea of the tray icon
is that you can close and restore the qjackctl app without losing the
current session.
Anybody know how to disable the tray icon feature? Maybe it will work,
then.
-gabriel
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:18:09 +0100, Jörn Nettingsmeier
< nettings@...> wrote:
> hi rui, hi *!
>
>
> two hosts connected via netjack. local host uses qjackctl.
> now ssh -X into remote host, start qjackctl and hope for a forwarded
> window. no luck. all that happens is that the *local* qjackctl window
> pops up.
>
> this doesn't happen with other gui apps. i use several xosviews on
> several hosts frequently without problems.
>
> any guesses as to what might be going on?
>
there can only one qjackctl instance running against one X11 server.
there's a workaround however:
on the remote host/ssh session, set JACK_DEFAULT_SERVER environment
variable with some unique value, other than "default" that is.
cheers
--
rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela
rncbc@...
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 03:03:52PM +0000, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
> there can only one qjackctl instance running against one X11 server.
Then it's utterly broken.
And I'm pretty sure I had more than one on the same screen
probably with an earlier version.
Ciao,
--
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:00:56 +0100, fons@... wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 10:35:30AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
>
>> 2009/10/29 Jörn Nettingsmeier < nettings@...>:
>> > hi rui, hi *!
>> >
>> >
>> > two hosts connected via netjack. local host uses qjackctl.
>> > now ssh -X into remote host, start qjackctl and hope for a forwarded
>> > window. no luck. all that happens is that the *local* qjackctl window
>> > pops up.
>> >
>> > this doesn't happen with other gui apps. i use several xosviews on
>> > several hosts frequently without problems.
>> >
>> > any guesses as to what might be going on?
>>
>> guess; Qt is trying to be way too clever.
>>
>> firefox does sort of the same thing - it registers some kind of
>> service handle with the X server, and when starting up on a given
>> display, a new firefox looks to see if the service already exists on
>> that X server.
>
> Other guess: your WM trying to be clever. It could recognise
> the window of the remote app, think you want to local one and
> move that to the current workspace which could result in the
> two windows on top of each other.
>
> Something like that (but harmless) happens in WindowMaker.
> When you have an app icon for e.g. qjakctl, then launch it
> on a remote machine, the icons 'start by double click'
> function doesn't work anymore because wm thinks the app
> is already running (you can still start on the icon's
> menu).
>
nope. it is qjackctl itself trying to be clever by going trough x11
property ownership and make sure there can only be one single instance of
it up and running.
no system-tray nor window manager in between, it's plain xlib trickery :)
cheers
--
rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela
rncbc@...
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:08:01 +0100, fons@... wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 03:03:52PM +0000, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
>
>> there can only one qjackctl instance running against one X11 server.
>
> Then it's utterly broken.
> And I'm pretty sure I had more than one on the same screen
> probably with an earlier version.
>
first ask why you want more than one qjackctl instance running?
if what you want is controlling more than one jackd server, then setting
JACK_DEFAULT_SERVER with distinct environment values is the answer. i can't
really see how you can do it otherwise, no matter which qjackctl version.
btw, the X11 uniqueness code applies to qjackctl >= 0.3.3, but the
JACK_DEFAULT_SERVER descriminator only affects qjackctl >= 0.3.4
byee
--
rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
Rui Nuno Capela < rncbc@...> writes:
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:08:01 +0100, fons@... wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 03:03:52PM +0000, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
>>
>>> there can only one qjackctl instance running against one X11 server.
>>
>> Then it's utterly broken.
>> And I'm pretty sure I had more than one on the same screen
>> probably with an earlier version.
>>
>
> first ask why you want more than one qjackctl instance running?
multiple jack servers on different hosts? ...and using the ssh X11
forwarding feature.
> if what you want is controlling more than one jackd server, then setting
> JACK_DEFAULT_SERVER with distinct environment values is the answer. i can't
> really see how you can do it otherwise, no matter which qjackctl version.
<flame>
if qjackctl is not requriement, one can do it by accessing session buses
(D-Bus) of multiple machines through network.
/me runs back to the rebel camp :D
</flame>
--
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: DE1716B0>
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
Hi,
On Thursday 29 October 2009 16:37:31 Nedko Arnaudov wrote:
> <flame>
> if qjackctl is not requriement, one can do it by accessing session buses
> (D-Bus) of multiple machines through network.
> /me runs back to the rebel camp :D
> </flame>
Ever tried that??? I did. And as I didn't want a solution involving copying
changing(!) security secrets across machines, I wanted anonymous access to
dedicated dbus sessions.
Turns out that despite all config-file hackery this needs a custom patched dbus
server to work. The patch is less then 10 lines but the mainline refuses to
include it afaik. Which makes the whole anonymous authorization in dbus
useless.
I decided to invent my own text-based network protocol. Is easier to forward
to the next phd-student then teaching him how to handle custom patched
versions...
Arnold
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
Arnold Krille < arnold@...> writes:
> Hi,
>
> On Thursday 29 October 2009 16:37:31 Nedko Arnaudov wrote:
>> <flame>
>> if qjackctl is not requriement, one can do it by accessing session buses
>> (D-Bus) of multiple machines through network.
>> /me runs back to the rebel camp :D
>> </flame>
>
> Ever tried that??? I did. And as I didn't want a solution involving copying
> changing(!) security secrets across machines, I wanted anonymous access to
> dedicated dbus sessions.
Not yet, I dont have multiple Linux machines, I have one.
> Turns out that despite all config-file hackery this needs a custom patched dbus
> server to work. The patch is less then 10 lines but the mainline refuses to
> include it afaik. Which makes the whole anonymous authorization in dbus
> useless.
I've heard that the anonymous stuff is in git and will be released in
1.4. OTOH if I was using such thing, I'd want ssh tunelling. I havent
tried ssh tunelled dbus, but it looks someone else did:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Remote_DBus--
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: DE1716B0>
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 03:31:24PM +0000, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
> first ask why you want more than one qjackctl instance running?
I'm routinely running audio systems consisting of more than
one machine, with usually all but one headless. And occasionally
I want to manually verify/modify jack connections on the remote
machines. So running 'ssh -X somehost qjacktl' is expected to
work, as it should for any X11 app, and must not depend on
conditions that don't matter.
> if what you want is controlling more than one jackd server, then setting
> JACK_DEFAULT_SERVER with distinct environment values is the answer. i can't
> really see how you can do it otherwise, no matter which qjackctl version.
If you want to avoid having two instances of qjackctl on
the same jack server (why, it should just work), then
checking for existing windows clearly is the wrong way
to do it. No X11 app should ever care where its display
is located physically and which other windows exist on
it. Being on the same display doesn't imply anything
about the location of the application itself.
Ciao,
--
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:43 PM, < fons@...> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 03:31:24PM +0000, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
>
>> first ask why you want more than one qjackctl instance running?
>
> I'm routinely running audio systems consisting of more than
> one machine, with usually all but one headless. And occasionally
> I want to manually verify/modify jack connections on the remote
> machines. So running 'ssh -X somehost qjacktl' is expected to
> work, as it should for any X11 app, and must not depend on
> conditions that don't matter.
although in theory i agree with you fons, i note that firefox and a
few others from the mozilla stable have realized that with
"heavyweight" X apps, this is not *always* true.
i certainly think that for an app of qjackctl's size/nature, checking
to see if its already running *on the JACK host* can make sense, but i
don't see how it makes sense to ask the same question about a display
server. what is the scope of the resources that qjc has implicit
control over? the audio interface and/or jack server on a given host.
what is the scope of the resources that the X server has implicit
control over? itself and the screen it controls. given that these are
not linked, and qjc is a lightweight application, running N or more on
the same X server seems to me to be something that should "just work".
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
Paul Davis wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:43 PM, < fons@...> wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 03:31:24PM +0000, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
>>
>>> first ask why you want more than one qjackctl instance running?
>> I'm routinely running audio systems consisting of more than
>> one machine, with usually all but one headless. And occasionally
>> I want to manually verify/modify jack connections on the remote
>> machines. So running 'ssh -X somehost qjacktl' is expected to
>> work, as it should for any X11 app, and must not depend on
>> conditions that don't matter.
>
> although in theory i agree with you fons, i note that firefox and a
> few others from the mozilla stable have realized that with
> "heavyweight" X apps, this is not *always* true.
>
> i certainly think that for an app of qjackctl's size/nature, checking
> to see if its already running *on the JACK host* can make sense, but i
> don't see how it makes sense to ask the same question about a display
> server. what is the scope of the resources that qjc has implicit
> control over? the audio interface and/or jack server on a given host.
> what is the scope of the resources that the X server has implicit
> control over? itself and the screen it controls. given that these are
> not linked, and qjc is a lightweight application, running N or more on
> the same X server seems to me to be something that should "just work".
well, i can put there an explicit command line option, say `qjackctl -X`
that will turn off the X11 display uniqueness check. additionally, i can
make it user configurable through the setup dialog, as usual
what else?
--
rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 03:01:33PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:43 PM, < fons@...> wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 03:31:24PM +0000, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
> >
> >> first ask why you want more than one qjackctl instance running?
> >
> > I'm routinely running audio systems consisting of more than
> > one machine, with usually all but one headless. And occasionally
> > I want to manually verify/modify jack connections on the remote
> > machines. So running 'ssh -X somehost qjacktl' is expected to
> > work, as it should for any X11 app, and must not depend on
> > conditions that don't matter.
>
> although in theory i agree with you fons, i note that firefox and a
> few others from the mozilla stable have realized that with
> "heavyweight" X apps, this is not *always* true.
I'd agree that expecting to see a YouTube video over a
remote X connection is asking for trouble. But apart
from that, what could be the problem (assuming the app
is not written in some braindead way) ?
Anyway this is not the same criterion. Qjackctl *does* work
perfectly with a remote X server, and its performance in such
conditions is not the reason why only a single instance is
allowed on any X server. The point I object to is that the
reason that is put forward for doing so doesn't make sense.
Ciao,
--
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 07:27:08PM +0000, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
> well, i can put there an explicit command line option, say `qjackctl -X`
> that will turn off the X11 display uniqueness check. additionally, i can
> make it user configurable through the setup dialog, as usual
There is *no* rationale at all for an X11 display uniqueness check.
It should *never* be enforced. There *may* be a rationale for not
having two qjackctk instances trying to control the same jackd, but
that is a compeletely different thing.
If you are going to work on command line options, *please*
add one that allows to select the jack server that qjackctl
will connect to instead of just using an environment variable.
Ciao,
--
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
fons@... wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 07:27:08PM +0000, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
>
>> well, i can put there an explicit command line option, say `qjackctl -X`
>> that will turn off the X11 display uniqueness check. additionally, i can
>> make it user configurable through the setup dialog, as usual
>
> There is *no* rationale at all for an X11 display uniqueness check.
> It should *never* be enforced. There *may* be a rationale for not
> having two qjackctk instances trying to control the same jackd, but
> that is a compeletely different thing.
>
> If you are going to work on command line options, *please*
> add one that allows to select the jack server that qjackctl
> will connect to instead of just using an environment variable.
>
okidoki :)
however, i must say there's already support for just that although
indirectly, through qjackctl presets.
in summary, you can have presets with different server paths, for
instance, one preset named as MYPRESET for which the server path is
"jackd -n MYJACK", where MYJACK will be the server name. then you can
invoke it trough the command line as
qjackctl --start --preset=MYPRESET
right, but that only works for _starting_ servers, not to attach to
already existing ones. that would be the precise purpose of the new
command line option you're asking for (-n, --server-name=[label], sets
the default server name) perhaps, right?
please note, that's also what the environment variable
(JACK_DEFAULT_SERVER) already does as part of the jackd specification
(jack 1 at least), so the new option will be an added convenience
cheers
--
rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
> well, i can put there an explicit command line option, say `qjackctl -X`
> that will turn off the X11 display uniqueness check. additionally, i can
> make it user configurable through the setup dialog, as usual
>
> what else?
make it a conditional compile:
#if (M_PI == 4)
...
#endif
:-D
honestly, i think this should default to "off".
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Re: qjackctl gets confused when used through ssh -X
On Thursday 29 October 2009 17:04:09 Nedko Arnaudov wrote:
> Arnold Krille < arnold@...> writes:
> > Turns out that despite all config-file hackery this needs a custom
> > patched dbus server to work. The patch is less then 10 lines but the
> > mainline refuses to include it afaik. Which makes the whole anonymous
> > authorization in dbus useless.
> I've heard that the anonymous stuff is in git and will be released in
> 1.4. OTOH if I was using such thing, I'd want ssh tunelling. I havent
> tried ssh tunelled dbus, but it looks someone else did:
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Remote_DBusMy use-case is a trusted network of machines running self-configuring jobs
(using avahi/zeroconf for the self-configuring). With head- and disk-less
machines. No ssh needed nor wanted. Just plain anonymous dbus...
But that is a thing of the past. I have now my own text-based network-protocol
that is usable for machine-to-machine- and human-to-machine-communication.
Have fun,
Arnold
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