raid0 disks problem

[Vessy Popova]

I have G4 2,4ghz with 2gb ram
and nvidia gforse 7800 (old but reliable machine for so long) with 2 (2x 250gb)
discs on raid0 which one them most probably have bad sector and the computer wouldn’t
start.

I made scan with Boomerang data
recovery and it shows all the data is still there so I extracted the one I need
but when I open they all seems to be corrupted.

Is there another way of recovering
my files without being corrupted?



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[Charles Dyer]

Probably not.

I hope you have a good backup.

On 01 May 2009, at 04:52:00, Vessy Popova wrote:

> I have G4 2,4ghz with 2gb ram
> and nvidia gforse 7800 (old but reliable machine for so long) with 2  
> (2x 250gb)
> discs on raid0 which one them most probably have bad sector and the  
> computer wouldn’t
> start.
>
> I made scan with Boomerang data
> recovery and it shows all the data is still there so I extracted the  
> one I need
> but when I open they all seems to be corrupted.
>
> Is there another way of recovering
> my files without being corrupted?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MacOSX-admin mailing list
> MacOSX-admin@...
> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin

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[Gary W. Longsine]

One can almost always recover data from a drive failure in a RAID 0  
(mirrored) configuration.  Typically one simply "breaks" the mirror,  
mounts the good drive, and copies the data.  On Mac OS X it's a little  
trickier, since the tool used to create the mirror cannot be reliably  
use to break the mirror apart.

In short, here's the strategy:
* shut down the system
* unplug the bad drive (thus breaking the mirror)
* start the system in FireWire target disk mode
* connect it to a booted system with a FireWire cable
* copy your data from the good drive (e.g. make a backup)
* replace the bad drive and re-build the mirror

In rare cases, some data corruption on both drives may occur with the  
failure of one drive.  Most data, however, can generally be recovered,  
even then.

A more detailed answer with caveats, here:
http://blog.illuminex.com/2009/05/data-recovery-from-bad-raid-0-mirrred.html

/gary
. .. ... ..... ....... ........... ....... ..... ... .. .
     Gary W. Longsine
     illumineX, inc.
     http://illumineX.com

"The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades."   -- Timbuck 3



On May 1, 2009, at 5:19 AM, Charles Dyer wrote:

> Probably not.
>
> I hope you have a good backup.
>
> On 01 May 2009, at 04:52:00, Vessy Popova wrote:
>
>> I have G4 2,4ghz with 2gb ram
>> and nvidia gforse 7800 (old but reliable machine for so long) with  
>> 2 (2x 250gb)
>> discs on raid0 which one them most probably have bad sector and the  
>> computer wouldn’t
>> start.
>>
>> I made scan with Boomerang data
>> recovery and it shows all the data is still there so I extracted  
>> the one I need
>> but when I open they all seems to be corrupted.
>>
>> Is there another way of recovering
>> my files without being corrupted?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MacOSX-admin mailing list
>> MacOSX-admin@...
>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin

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[Andrew Oliver-2]

On May 1, 2009, at 1:50 PM, Gary W. Longsine wrote:

> One can almost always recover data from a drive failure in a RAID 0  
> (mirrored) configuration

Unfortunately, RAID 0 is not mirroring. RAID 1 is mirror. RAID 0 is  
stripe/concat (depending on how you set it up).

If one disk in a RAID 0 stripe fails then you're hosed - data is  
striped across the drives in small chunks - typically 32KB to one  
disk, the next 32KB to the other, and so on. This means that if the  
file is >32KB there is guaranteed to be data on each disk, and  
therefore it's unrecoverable.

If the disk is concatenated then you have more chance since concat  
fills one disk and then spills over to the second. Therefore the data  
is likely to be on a single disk and as long as that disk isn't the  
one that failed you should have a chance. Of course, it's just as  
likely that the disk that failed is the one with your data, in which  
case you're out of luck.

Either way you will need some specialized recovery software. Since the  
drive headers identify the disk as part of a RAID set the OS won't  
mount the disk unless all RAID  slices are present. That's why people  
pay big bucks to DriveSavers and the like.

Andrew
:)
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[Charles Dyer]

On 01 May 2009, at 16:50:18, Gary W. Longsine wrote:

> One can almost always recover data from a drive failure in a RAID 0  
> (mirrored) configuration.

Errm... RAID 0 is _striped_, no parity. RAID 1 is mirrored. If  
something happens to one of the drives in a RAID 0, you'd best have a  
backup, 'cause _all_ the data is _gone_ unless you are _very_ lucky.

>  Typically one simply "breaks" the mirror, mounts the good drive,  
> and copies the data.  On Mac OS X it's a little trickier, since the  
> tool used to create the mirror cannot be reliably use to break the  
> mirror apart.
>
> In short, here's the strategy:
> * shut down the system
> * unplug the bad drive (thus breaking the mirror)
> * start the system in FireWire target disk mode
> * connect it to a booted system with a FireWire cable
> * copy your data from the good drive (e.g. make a backup)
> * replace the bad drive and re-build the mirror

That should work... for RAID 1. It _won't_ work for RAID 0.

>
> In rare cases, some data corruption on both drives may occur with  
> the failure of one drive.  Most data, however, can generally be  
> recovered, even then.
>
> A more detailed answer with caveats, here:
> http://blog.illuminex.com/2009/05/data-recovery-from-bad-raid-0-mirrred.html

As he's wrong right at the start, 'cause RAID 0 is _striped_, not  
mirrored...

>
> /gary
> . .. ... ..... ....... ........... ....... ..... ... .. .
>    Gary W. Longsine
>    illumineX, inc.
>    http://illumineX.com
>
> "The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades."   -- Timbuck 3
>
>
>
> On May 1, 2009, at 5:19 AM, Charles Dyer wrote:
>
>> Probably not.
>>
>> I hope you have a good backup.
>>
>> On 01 May 2009, at 04:52:00, Vessy Popova wrote:
>>
>>> I have G4 2,4ghz with 2gb ram
>>> and nvidia gforse 7800 (old but reliable machine for so long) with  
>>> 2 (2x 250gb)
>>> discs on raid0 which one them most probably have bad sector and  
>>> the computer wouldn’t
>>> start.
>>>
>>> I made scan with Boomerang data
>>> recovery and it shows all the data is still there so I extracted  
>>> the one I need
>>> but when I open they all seems to be corrupted.
>>>
>>> Is there another way of recovering
>>> my files without being corrupted?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MacOSX-admin mailing list
>>> MacOSX-admin@...
>>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MacOSX-admin mailing list
>> MacOSX-admin@...
>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin
>

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[Gary W. Longsine]

Yes, RAID 1 is mirroring.  Sigh.  That's what I get for failing to  
check my homework before turning it in.

With RAID 0, one typically relies on a backup, as a failure of one  
drive generally leads to a volume which cannot be recovered.

Sorry to introduce the confusion.  I've corrected the blog post to  
RAID 1 so as not to confuse others, nor introduce hope to those  
unfortunate souls with bad drives in a RAID 0 (stripped) configuration.

Kind regards,

/gary

On May 1, 2009, at 3:44 PM, Charles Dyer wrote:

> On 01 May 2009, at 16:50:18, Gary W. Longsine wrote:
>
>> One can almost always recover data from a drive failure in a RAID 0  
>> (mirrored) configuration.
>
> Errm... RAID 0 is _striped_, no parity. RAID 1 is mirrored. If  
> something happens to one of the drives in a RAID 0, you'd best have  
> a backup, 'cause _all_ the data is _gone_ unless you are _very_ lucky.
>
>> Typically one simply "breaks" the mirror, mounts the good drive,  
>> and copies the data.  On Mac OS X it's a little trickier, since the  
>> tool used to create the mirror cannot be reliably use to break the  
>> mirror apart.
>>
>> In short, here's the strategy:
>> * shut down the system
>> * unplug the bad drive (thus breaking the mirror)
>> * start the system in FireWire target disk mode
>> * connect it to a booted system with a FireWire cable
>> * copy your data from the good drive (e.g. make a backup)
>> * replace the bad drive and re-build the mirror
>
> That should work... for RAID 1. It _won't_ work for RAID 0.
>
>>
>> In rare cases, some data corruption on both drives may occur with  
>> the failure of one drive.  Most data, however, can generally be  
>> recovered, even then.
>>
>> A more detailed answer with caveats, here:
>> http://blog.illuminex.com/2009/05/data-recovery-from-bad-raid-0-mirrred.html
>
> As he's wrong right at the start, 'cause RAID 0 is _striped_, not  
> mirrored...
>
>>
>> /gary
>> . .. ... ..... ....... ........... ....... ..... ... .. .
>>   Gary W. Longsine
>>   illumineX, inc.
>>   http://illumineX.com
>>
>> "The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades."   -- Timbuck 3
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 1, 2009, at 5:19 AM, Charles Dyer wrote:
>>
>>> Probably not.
>>>
>>> I hope you have a good backup.
>>>
>>> On 01 May 2009, at 04:52:00, Vessy Popova wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have G4 2,4ghz with 2gb ram
>>>> and nvidia gforse 7800 (old but reliable machine for so long)  
>>>> with 2 (2x 250gb)
>>>> discs on raid0 which one them most probably have bad sector and  
>>>> the computer wouldn’t
>>>> start.
>>>>
>>>> I made scan with Boomerang data
>>>> recovery and it shows all the data is still there so I extracted  
>>>> the one I need
>>>> but when I open they all seems to be corrupted.
>>>>
>>>> Is there another way of recovering
>>>> my files without being corrupted?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> MacOSX-admin mailing list
>>>> MacOSX-admin@...
>>>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MacOSX-admin mailing list
>>> MacOSX-admin@...
>>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MacOSX-admin mailing list
> MacOSX-admin@...
> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin

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[Bill Cheeseman-2]

> On May 1, 2009, at 4:50 PM, Gary W. Longsine wrote:

> One can almost always recover data from a drive failure in a RAID 0  
> (mirrored) configuration.  Typically one simply "breaks" the mirror,  
> mounts the good drive, and copies the data.  On Mac OS X it's a  
> little trickier, since the tool used to create the mirror cannot be  
> reliably use to break the mirror apart.

Gary, I think mirrored is RAID 1.

I operate my PowerMac (dual G5) with two identical 500G drives  
configured as mirrored (RAID 1) using Disk Utility's software RAID.  
Last week, I launched Disk Utility due to loud noise from the Power  
Mac. Disk Utility reported that one of the two drives had failed, but  
of course my Mac kept working nicely from the good drive. I shut down  
the Mac to let it rest overnight. The next morning, when I rebooted  
and launched Disk Utility, it reported that it was rebuilding the disk  
that had supposedly failed the night before -- automatically, with no  
intervention on my part. It said the job would take 7 hours. About 3  
hours later, it was done, and the RAID array has been performing well  
ever since. (We had experienced a heat wave the day of the "failure,"  
and it has cooled down a lot since.)

So, if one really has a mirrored RAID array using Apple's software  
RAID, all you have to do when a drive fails is to stick a known good  
drive in the machine in place of the failed drive, and let 'er rip.

I'm aware that there were apparently some problems with recovery from  
a software RAID 1 failure in earlier versions of Leopard, but I recall  
reading more recently that those were fixed. My experience is that  
it's working just fine.

--

Bill Cheeseman
bill@...
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[Vessy Popova]

What I have done till now is to try all the possible scans from 2 software (Virtual Lab and Boomerang) since the mac won't mount alone to use the utility and I keep get the files with gap between exactly on 32 kb which means the one of the drives cannot recover the data. I need to find way to get to the bad disk somehow. I'm using firewire connection to notebook but it won't let me see it as external drive. I can see it on the utility though and the recovery program can detect it as unknown drive with the exact size of the raid.
I also got a message on the screen when I tried one of the options of data rescue which said ''the system files are missing'' which is making me think that the OS is in the bad disk and for that reason I cannot access it.
I will try all the tricks as much as I can.

Vessy :)




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[Gary W. Longsine]

hi Vessy,

Sorry for the confusion yesterday when I responded with an irrelevant  
RAID 1 recovery strategy.  A failure in a RAID 0 drive is an entirely  
different matter.  If you can't get the data back with the software  
tools you described, there are two remaining chances.

In cases like this it is sometimes possible to fully recover data from  
failed drives using the UNIX dd command, in combination with a special  
hardware kit.  Your objective is to make an exact clone of the  
filesystem image as it exists (possible corruption and all) onto a  
good drive.  Put that good drive into your RAID, and then run the  
filesystem recovery tools.

To maximize your chance of success, to clone both ("all" if your RAID  
0 volume had more than two drives in it) the good and bad drives, and  
perform data recovery exercises only on the working copies.  That way  
you (or your tools) can't accidentally mess up the good drive while  
you're doing this.  Perform operations which can change the state of  
the drive only on copies of the drives.  Once you get a copy of the  
bad drive, copy that to make a working copy, because you might only  
get one chance.  (With dd you can store this copy as a file on a  
larger drive, if that's more convenient).

You can try to clone the drive with dd directly.  If it doesn't work  
(say, if the bad drive times out while you're trying to read it) then  
you'll need a special hardware interface.  Devices like these allow  
you to perform unlimited reads, and some let you block write attempts  
at the hardware interface so that you can't accidentally write to the  
bad drive (and likely make things worse).

UltraBlock by Digital Intelligence
http://www.digitalintelligence.com/forensicwriteblockers.php

DriveDock by WiebeTech
http://www.wiebetech.com/products/ForensicDriveDock.php

Use the UNIX dd command to clone your drive.  It may take several hours.

Once you have the clone, and a working copy of the clone, you can  
experiment with filesystem recovery tools and whatnot all you like on  
the working copy of the RAID 0 volume, and easily start over if  
something goes wrong.

If you can clone the bad drive, the odds of getting your data back go  
up quite a bit, presuming that the tools you've been running prior to  
cloning it haven't made a hash of the filesystem and data on that  
drive by now.

If you are unable to make a clone of the drive, then sending the drive  
to a professional data recovery outfit with a clean room and whatnot  
is your only chance.  You'll need to work with them closely, so that  
they understand that you need a clone of the drive, and that they  
won't be able to recover files and stuff without the other drive(s) in  
your RAID 0 volume.

/gary


On May 2, 2009, at 12:27 AM, Vessy Popova wrote:

> What I have done till now is to try all the possible scans from 2  
> software (Virtual Lab and Boomerang) since the mac won't mount alone  
> to use the utility and I keep get the files with gap between exactly  
> on 32 kb which means the one of the drives cannot recover the data.  
> I need to find way to get to the bad disk somehow. I'm using  
> firewire connection to notebook but it won't let me see it as  
> external drive. I can see it on the utility though and the recovery  
> program can detect it as unknown drive with the exact size of the  
> raid.
> I also got a message on the screen when I tried one of the options  
> of data rescue which said ''the system files are missing'' which is  
> making me think that the OS is in the bad disk and for that reason I  
> cannot access it.
> I will try all the tricks as much as I can.
>
> Vessy :)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MacOSX-admin mailing list
> MacOSX-admin@...
> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin

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[Vessy Popova]

Hi Garry,

Thank you
very much for the info :)
I have been
reading all day and examine the behaviour of my drives and I concluded the raid
seemed to me wasn’t damaged as I primary thought but the problem looks like is
in the OS. I did bootable disc with DiskWarrior 4 after all and I made the
needed boot. The rebuild of the drives was successful (at least the message of
the log was showing it). Now after the restart I had the OS back on the drives
but I keep receiving the message on single boot ‘’...could not connect to
windowserver.may... ‘’ or when I was starting on the normal boot it would keep on
the apple logo on the grey background.
I need to find a way how to login normally.
Is there
any chance my user log to be lost or damaged and if yes how can I rebuild one
or just if you have any idea what shall I do at all?


After the
rebuild I’m leaving it for tonight and rest my brain so I can think better in
the morning but I am open for suggestions how to start it or to try to clone it as you said most probably  :)

regards,
vessy




________________________________
From: Gary W. Longsine <gary@...>
To: Vessy Popova <vessy_erra@...>
Cc: MacOSX-Admin Mail <macosx-admin@...>
Sent: Saturday, 2 May, 2009 18:23:33
Subject: Re: raid0 disks problem

hi Vessy,

Sorry for the confusion yesterday when I responded with an irrelevant RAID 1 recovery strategy.  A failure in a RAID 0 drive is an entirely different matter.  If you can't get the data back with the software tools you described, there are two remaining chances.

In cases like this it is sometimes possible to fully recover data from failed drives using the UNIX dd command, in combination with a special hardware kit.  Your objective is to make an exact clone of the filesystem image as it exists (possible corruption and all) onto a good drive.  Put that good drive into your RAID, and then run the filesystem recovery tools.

To maximize your chance of success, to clone both ("all" if your RAID 0 volume had more than two drives in it) the good and bad drives, and perform data recovery exercises only on the working copies.  That way you (or your tools) can't accidentally mess up the good drive while you're doing this.  Perform operations which can change the state of the drive only on copies of the drives.  Once you get a copy of the bad drive, copy that to make a working copy, because you might only get one chance.  (With dd you can store this copy as a file on a larger drive, if that's more convenient).

You can try to clone the drive with dd directly.  If it doesn't work (say, if the bad drive times out while you're trying to read it) then you'll need a special hardware interface.  Devices like these allow you to perform unlimited reads, and some let you block write attempts at the hardware interface so that you can't accidentally write to the bad drive (and likely make things worse).

UltraBlock by Digital Intelligence
http://www.digitalintelligence.com/forensicwriteblockers.php

DriveDock by WiebeTech
http://www.wiebetech.com/products/ForensicDriveDock.php

Use the UNIX dd command to clone your drive.  It may take several hours.

Once you have the clone, and a working copy of the clone, you can experiment with filesystem recovery tools and whatnot all you like on the working copy of the RAID 0 volume, and easily start over if something goes wrong.

If you can clone the bad drive, the odds of getting your data back go up quite a bit, presuming that the tools you've been running prior to cloning it haven't made a hash of the filesystem and data on that drive by now.

If you are unable to make a clone of the drive, then sending the drive to a professional data recovery outfit with a clean room and whatnot is your only chance.  You'll need to work with them closely, so that they understand that you need a clone of the drive, and that they won't be able to recover files and stuff without the other drive(s) in your RAID 0 volume.

/gary


On May 2, 2009, at 12:27 AM, Vessy Popova wrote:

> What I have done till now is to try all the possible scans from 2 software (Virtual Lab and Boomerang) since the mac won't mount alone to use the utility and I keep get the files with gap between exactly on 32 kb which means the one of the drives cannot recover the data. I need to find way to get to the bad disk somehow. I'm using firewire connection to notebook but it won't let me see it as external drive. I can see it on the utility though and the recovery program can detect it as unknown drive with the exact size of the raid.
> I also got a message on the screen when I tried one of the options of data rescue which said ''the system files are missing'' which is making me think that the OS is in the bad disk and for that reason I cannot access it.
> I will try all the tricks as much as I can.
>
> Vessy :)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MacOSX-admin mailing list
> MacOSX-admin@...
> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin

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[Scott Ribe]

Your approach is extremely risky; every time you boot from this disk pair
you risk overwriting data that would otherwise have been recoverable. You
should clone the disks before continuing, and boot from a separate recovery
disk.


--
Scott Ribe
scott_ribe@...
http://www.killerbytes.com/
[phone] voice


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[Vessy Popova]

Thanks Scott. I will go with clone first


________________________________
From: Scott Ribe <scott_ribe@...>
To: Vessy Popova <vessy_erra@...>
Cc: MacOSX-Admin Mail <macosx-admin@...>
Sent: Sunday, 3 May, 2009 2:30:59
Subject: Re: raid0 disks problem

Your approach is extremely risky; every time you boot from this disk pair
you risk overwriting data that would otherwise have been recoverable. You
should clone the disks before continuing, and boot from a separate recovery
disk.


--
Scott Ribe
scott_ribe@...
http://www.killerbytes.com/
[phone] voice



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[Markus Hitter]

Am 02.05.2009 um 21:59 schrieb Vessy Popova:

> I need to find a way how to login normally.

Hold down the command and the "s" key at the boot chime. This will  
put you into single-user mode. Singe-user mode is pretty safe, as  
volumes are mounted read-only.

The drawback is, there is no network. In principle, you can set  
networking up manually, but this is complex. Mounting external disks  
is manageable, though.


Markus

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter
http://www.jump-ing.de/




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[János Löbb]

On May 2, 2009, at 2:27 AM, Vessy Popova wrote:

> What I have done till now is to try all the possible scans from 2  
> software (Virtual Lab and Boomerang) since the mac won't mount alone  
> to use the utility and I keep get the files with gap between exactly  
> on 32 kb which means the one of the drives cannot recover the data.  
> I need to find way to get to the bad disk somehow. I'm using  
> firewire connection to notebook but it won't let me see it as  
> external drive. I can see it on the utility though and the recovery  
> program can detect it as unknown drive with the exact size of the  
> raid.
> I also got a message on the screen when I tried one of the options  
> of data rescue which said ''the system files are missing'' which is  
> making me think that the OS is in the bad disk and for that reason I  
> cannot access it.
> I will try all the tricks as much as I can.
>
> Vessy :)

I had good results with Data Rescue II.  I had all the recovered files  
in a totally different order, but that is still better than nothing.

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[Vessy Popova]

I wanna thank you all for the advises and to Gary who made me make the correct troubleshooting because at the end of the day the technical support company who said to me the disk raid is broken and there is a chance to recover only if i give it to a comapny who wated .... usd I was very confused and i wasn't sure what to do... so no more ''technicial support'' from ppl who cannot repair even one simple thing like what it came at the end .. hahaha. I took my disks home and I wrote you guys about the problem and:
The problem was solved in 3 steps.
step 1: DiskWarrior repaired the os but didn't repair the access permissions, so i went to
step 2:root# dd  to clone the data in case i make something wrong to have the original saved (ok before that i did df -nl then manually mounted the external drive using  mount -t hfs/dev/disk /volume/etc....
step 3: diskutil verify /

and now I'm backing up

all the best!!!
Vessy




________________________________
From: János Löbb <janos.lobb@...>
To: MacOSX-Admin Mail <macosx-admin@...>
Sent: Monday, 4 May, 2009 17:15:39
Subject: Re: raid0 disks problem


On May 2, 2009, at 2:27 AM, Vessy Popova wrote:

> What I have done till now is to try all the possible scans from 2 software (Virtual Lab and Boomerang) since the mac won't mount alone to use the utility and I keep get the files with gap between exactly on 32 kb which means the one of the drives cannot recover the data. I need to find way to get to the bad disk somehow. I'm using firewire connection to notebook but it won't let me see it as external drive. I can see it on the utility though and the recovery program can detect it as unknown drive with the exact size of the raid.
> I also got a message on the screen when I tried one of the options of data rescue which said ''the system files are missing'' which is making me think that the OS is in the bad disk and for that reason I cannot access it.
> I will try all the tricks as much as I can.
>
> Vessy :)

I had good results with Data Rescue II.  I had all the recovered files in a totally different order, but that is still better than nothing.

János_______________________________________________
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