shebuntu debian project

[Ivan Serra]

Hi to All
My name is Ivan fro Italy and I'm Ubuntu user and I love this OS
I created a new project on Launchpad and I'm just asking you help about that

https://launchpad.net/ubuntushe

*SHEBUNTU* would be a new version based on Ubuntu dedicated to women world.
Ubuntu is a Debian-based operating system that is having considerable
success in the world of Linux and Open Source, but I believe and am
convinced that the majority of users are men.
The purpose and the goal of this project is to raise awareness and bring
this OS to the world of women by giving all women the opportunity to
understand and use SHEBUNTU operating system.
In surveys carried out most of the women interviewed, want a simple and
already complete system with no further complications in the
installation of programs or other, SHEBUNTU wants to satisfy this
request by using already potential and ease of installation and hardware
recognition of Ubuntu, but with the peculiarity of having everything
already installed, tools,links and programs dedicated to women, plus
special graphics, backgrounds, themes and logos for women too.
I think this can help the Ubuntu community to widen the already large
number of users, while giving all women the chance to appreciate an
operating system dedicated to them

<<My wife doesn't want use Ubuntu yet so I want create a new version of
Ubuntu for all female world, simple version based on Ubuntu for approach
all women at the Linux and Open Source world with installed all tools,
programs and utility for them, like horoscope, fertility calculation,
diary, meteo, links at the most famous female sites,pidgin plugins,
skype, with female themes.....and many other>>

Please let me know
We just looking for:

    * Graphics for the new themes,usplash,logo and wallpapers
    * New female programs,tools and links list
    * Collaborators

Thanks to all
Regards
Ivan


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[Miriam Ruiz-4]

2009/9/29 Ivan Serra <ivanserra@...>:
> Hi to All
> My name is Ivan fro Italy and I'm Ubuntu user and I love this OS
> I created a new project on Launchpad and I'm just asking you help about that
>
> https://launchpad.net/ubuntushe

Hi Ivan,

First of all, thanks for acknowledging that there is a problem and
trying to do something about it. Although I wish you luck in your
project, I seriously doubt that the solution for the low amount of
women involved in Free Software will come from developing a
distribution targeted at women.

In any case, I'm curious about it. Apart of the obvious possible
differences, like having a pink theme with lots of teddy bears,
ponies, flowers and the such, which is something that some subgroup of
women and girls might find attractive, in which way do you plan to
customize the distribution that wouldn't fit a random newbie user,
male or female?

I've had a look at the current list of developers [1], and I see that
there doesn't seem top be any women involved. As an important
suggestion, I recommend you to constantly ask for feedback to your
target audience, so that you actually fulfill their needs and not just
some stereotype. The best would be if you were able to attract female
developers.

In general, Debian tries to be integrative, so you won't find the
division you have in Ubuntu (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Easy Peasy,...)
and we try to work cooperatively towards a single universal system.
Most of the stuff you're proposing for your distro would probably be
useful for people outside your target audience, and it would be a pity
that they couldn't access it.

One thing I'm wondering about, is whether you have developed some
research to find out that the kind of distribution you're proposing is
what is really needed for solving the exact problems you're targeting
at, or if it just comes out of intuition, If it's the latter, I
seriously recommend you to double check that your efforts will lead to
something productive and that you're not just wasting your time in it.
I wish you luck, though.

Greetings,
Miry

[1] https://launchpad.net/~ubushe.m/+members#active


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[Éric Araujo]

Hello everybody.

I'll try to express some thoughts I had reading your email in the form
of constructive criticism. When I used Ubuntu, I thought the practice of
making another whole distribution for specific DEs really strange and
unefficient (why duplicate branding, forums and co. just when one piece
of the OS is different?); public-specific versions are a bit less strange
to me. My point is that there exist other solutions (tasks, package list
replication, custom install CDs...) that can be used without needing to
change the name :) My viewpoint may come from the fact that Debian aims to
be the universal operating system, whereas Ubuntu is built with a
desktop-centric view.

> My name is Ivan fro Italy and I'm Ubuntu user and I love this OS
Out of curiosity: Have you given Debian a try too? I don't know how
easy it is to make yet another *buntu distribution, perhaps this could
be useful to you: http://blends.alioth.debian.org/

> *SHEBUNTU* would be a new version based on Ubuntu dedicated to women
> world.
Is there only one women world? How do you define it? (more on that later)

> In surveys carried out most of the women interviewed, want a simple and
> already complete system with no further complications in the
> installation of programs or other,
Do those surveys distinguish between novice female users and savvy ones?
Could you kindly provide us with links or other references? Why should
a distro for novice female users be different from a novice male users?

> <<My wife doesn't want use Ubuntu yet so I want create a new version
> of Ubuntu for all female world, simple version based on Ubuntu for approach
> all women at the Linux and Open Source world with installed all tools,
> programs and utility for them, like horoscope, fertility calculation,
> diary, meteo, links at the most famous female sites,pidgin plugins,
> skype, with female themes.....and many other>>
Excuse the harshness, but a women-tailored selection of package is one that
encompases gullibility, reduction to a sexual role, non-free software and
shiny backgrounds? It seems to me more harmful than useful.

Now I'll wait for actual women opinions :)

Kind regards,

Éric


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[Ana Guerrero-3]

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:44:51PM +0200, Ivan Serra wrote:

> Hi to All
> My name is Ivan fro Italy and I'm Ubuntu user and I love this OS
> I created a new project on Launchpad and I'm just asking you help about that
>
> https://launchpad.net/ubuntushe
>
> *SHEBUNTU* would be a new version based on Ubuntu dedicated to women world.
> Ubuntu is a Debian-based operating system that is having
> considerable success in the world of Linux and Open Source, but I
> believe and am convinced that the majority of users are men.
> The purpose and the goal of this project is to raise awareness and
> bring this OS to the world of women by giving all women the
> opportunity to understand and use SHEBUNTU operating system.
> In surveys carried out most of the women interviewed, want a simple
> and already complete system with no further complications in the
> installation of programs or other, SHEBUNTU wants to satisfy this
> request by using already potential and ease of installation and
> hardware recognition of Ubuntu, but with the peculiarity of having
> everything already installed, tools,links and programs dedicated to
> women, plus special graphics, backgrounds, themes and logos for
> women too.
> I think this can help the Ubuntu community to widen the already
> large number of users, while giving all women the chance to
> appreciate an operating system dedicated to them
>
> <<My wife doesn't want use Ubuntu yet so I want create a new version
> of Ubuntu for all female world, simple version based on Ubuntu for
> approach all women at the Linux and Open Source world with installed
> all tools, programs and utility for them, like horoscope, fertility
> calculation, diary, meteo, links at the most famous female
> sites,pidgin plugins, skype, with female themes.....and many other>>
>
> Please let me know
> We just looking for:
>
>    * Graphics for the new themes,usplash,logo and wallpapers
>    * New female programs,tools and links list
>    * Collaborators
>

I am speechless...


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[Anne Ghisla Insubriae]

Il giorno mar, 29/09/2009 alle 13.43 +0200, =?utf-8?Q?
=C3=89ric=20Araujo =20 ha scritto:

> Hello everybody.
>
> I'll try to express some thoughts I had reading your email in the form
> of constructive criticism. When I used Ubuntu, I thought the practice of
> making another whole distribution for specific DEs really strange and
> unefficient (why duplicate branding, forums and co. just when one piece
> of the OS is different?); public-specific versions are a bit less strange
> to me. My point is that there exist other solutions (tasks, package list
> replication, custom install CDs...) that can be used without needing to
> change the name :) My viewpoint may come from the fact that Debian aims to
> be the universal operating system, whereas Ubuntu is built with a
> desktop-centric view.
>
> > My name is Ivan fro Italy and I'm Ubuntu user and I love this OS
> Out of curiosity: Have you given Debian a try too? I don't know how
> easy it is to make yet another *buntu distribution, perhaps this could
> be useful to you: http://blends.alioth.debian.org/
>
> > *SHEBUNTU* would be a new version based on Ubuntu dedicated to women
> > world.
> Is there only one women world? How do you define it? (more on that later)
>
> > In surveys carried out most of the women interviewed, want a simple and
> > already complete system with no further complications in the
> > installation of programs or other,
> Do those surveys distinguish between novice female users and savvy ones?
> Could you kindly provide us with links or other references? Why should
> a distro for novice female users be different from a novice male users?
>
> > <<My wife doesn't want use Ubuntu yet so I want create a new version
> > of Ubuntu for all female world, simple version based on Ubuntu for approach
> > all women at the Linux and Open Source world with installed all tools,
> > programs and utility for them, like horoscope, fertility calculation,
> > diary, meteo, links at the most famous female sites,pidgin plugins,
> > skype, with female themes.....and many other>>
> Excuse the harshness, but a women-tailored selection of package is one that
> encompases gullibility, reduction to a sexual role, non-free software and
> shiny backgrounds? It seems to me more harmful than useful.
>
> Now I'll wait for actual women opinions :)

Hello all,

I totally agree with Éric. I doubt that such a simple operating system,
with "women" programs and utilities, is a way to attract "women newbies"
to open source. IMHO it will remain a toy; why people (women or men) not
interested in what open source OS offers (customisation, ability to find
and squash bugs in the code, meet developers community, etc) but only in
eyecandies will prefer *buntu to the new shiny Vista, already shipped
with their new notebook?

Honestly, as a woman, I felt something like "upset" by Ivan's idea. It
reminded me the consideration of women in the nineteenth century -
fragile, childish. Ivan, I'm absolutely not saying that these are your
intentions. But there is enough sexual discrimination in computer world
to make me feel unconfortable with the idea of a women distro.

Really, I think that a gender-free newbie-oriented distro or Debian
flavour will be far better than a women-oriented one. but I think as
well that *buntu already covers the topic.

As a final thought, maybe my personal experience is not usual, but I
started my Linux adventure with Debian, honest and merciless, and I
thank it and the developers to have made me feel just a "newbie" and
later just a "programmer", without sexual distinction.

Ok, time to get back to my xorg issue.

Anne

[Ivan Serra]

Hi Ana
thanks for your email why are you speechless?
I'm just talking about that here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1278096

my apologies for my english
regards
Ivan

Ana Guerrero ha scritto:

> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:44:51PM +0200, Ivan Serra wrote:
>  
>> Hi to All
>> My name is Ivan fro Italy and I'm Ubuntu user and I love this OS
>> I created a new project on Launchpad and I'm just asking you help about that
>>
>> https://launchpad.net/ubuntushe
>>
>> *SHEBUNTU* would be a new version based on Ubuntu dedicated to women world.
>> Ubuntu is a Debian-based operating system that is having
>> considerable success in the world of Linux and Open Source, but I
>> believe and am convinced that the majority of users are men.
>> The purpose and the goal of this project is to raise awareness and
>> bring this OS to the world of women by giving all women the
>> opportunity to understand and use SHEBUNTU operating system.
>> In surveys carried out most of the women interviewed, want a simple
>> and already complete system with no further complications in the
>> installation of programs or other, SHEBUNTU wants to satisfy this
>> request by using already potential and ease of installation and
>> hardware recognition of Ubuntu, but with the peculiarity of having
>> everything already installed, tools,links and programs dedicated to
>> women, plus special graphics, backgrounds, themes and logos for
>> women too.
>> I think this can help the Ubuntu community to widen the already
>> large number of users, while giving all women the chance to
>> appreciate an operating system dedicated to them
>>
>> <<My wife doesn't want use Ubuntu yet so I want create a new version
>> of Ubuntu for all female world, simple version based on Ubuntu for
>> approach all women at the Linux and Open Source world with installed
>> all tools, programs and utility for them, like horoscope, fertility
>> calculation, diary, meteo, links at the most famous female
>> sites,pidgin plugins, skype, with female themes.....and many other>>
>>
>> Please let me know
>> We just looking for:
>>
>>    * Graphics for the new themes,usplash,logo and wallpapers
>>    * New female programs,tools and links list
>>    * Collaborators
>>
>>    
>
> I am speechless...
>
>  

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[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 29 September 2009 12:43:46 Éric Araujo, @liszt.debian.org wrote:
> Excuse the harshness, but a women-tailored selection of package is one that
> encompases gullibility, reduction to a sexual role, non-free software and
> shiny backgrounds? It seems to me more harmful than useful.
>
> Now I'll wait for actual women opinions

You have expressed this woman's opinions better than I could have myself,
Éric.  Thank you.

Incidentally, Ivan, why does having two x chromosomes make me likely to be
interested in astrology??

Lisi


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[Ana Guerrero-3]

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 03:05:59PM +0200, Ivan Serra wrote:
>
> Hi Ana
> thanks for your email why are you speechless?
> I'm just talking about that here:
>
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1278096
>
> my apologies for my english


Let's see if you understand it with a little example:

Imagine instead of being married and living with your wife, you live with your
brother. And he does not like ubuntu and you want him to use it. Would you have
made brubuntu - the awesome distro for the bro's?
No, you would have try to find out why your brother does not like ubuntu,
what he is missing from his former OS and see how to fix it:
- if he wants cool wallpapers you teach him how to change it
- if he wants an app to do X, you look for an equivalent app and ask it to get
  packaged in your distro.
- and also, you teach him how to use the new system...

Why you do not do the same with your wife?
Do you see where you mistake is?

Further reading to understand the root of this problem and how to help to
fix it:
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/


Ana


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[Ivan Serra]

Hi Ana
thanks for your message
I respect your opinion my apologies for my email I thought it was a good
idea
Regards
Ivan

Ana Guerrero ha scritto:

> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 03:05:59PM +0200, Ivan Serra wrote:
>  
>> Hi Ana
>> thanks for your email why are you speechless?
>> I'm just talking about that here:
>>
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1278096
>>
>> my apologies for my english
>>    
>
>
> Let's see if you understand it with a little example:
>
> Imagine instead of being married and living with your wife, you live with your
> brother. And he does not like ubuntu and you want him to use it. Would you have
> made brubuntu - the awesome distro for the bro's?
> No, you would have try to find out why your brother does not like ubuntu,
> what he is missing from his former OS and see how to fix it:
> - if he wants cool wallpapers you teach him how to change it
> - if he wants an app to do X, you look for an equivalent app and ask it to get
>   packaged in your distro.
> - and also, you teach him how to use the new system...
>
> Why you do not do the same with your wife?
> Do you see where you mistake is?
>
> Further reading to understand the root of this problem and how to help to
> fix it:
> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/
>
>
> Ana
>
>
>  

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[Harry Rickards]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 29/09/09 16:25, Ivan Serra wrote:

> Hi Ana
> thanks for your message
> I respect your opinion my apologies for my email I thought it was a good
> idea
> Regards
> Ivan
>
> Ana Guerrero ha scritto:
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 03:05:59PM +0200, Ivan Serra wrote:
>>  
>>> Hi Ana
>>> thanks for your email why are you speechless?
>>> I'm just talking about that here:
>>>
>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1278096
>>>
>>> my apologies for my english
>>>    
>>
>>
>> Let's see if you understand it with a little example:
>>
>> Imagine instead of being married and living with your wife, you live
>> with your
>> brother. And he does not like ubuntu and you want him to use it. Would
>> you have made brubuntu - the awesome distro for the bro's? No, you
>> would have try to find out why your brother does not like ubuntu,
>> what he is missing from his former OS and see how to fix it:
>> - if he wants cool wallpapers you teach him how to change it
>> - if he wants an app to do X, you look for an equivalent app and ask
>> it to get
>>   packaged in your distro.
>> - and also, you teach him how to use the new system...
>> Why you do not do the same with your wife?
>> Do you see where you mistake is?
>>
>> Further reading to understand the root of this problem and how to help to
>> fix it:
>> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/
>>
>>
>> Ana

       
Try not to take the criticism too personally. I agree with the others,
but I think it could maybe turn out into an interesting idea if lots of
women get involved e.g, maybe some of the default themes in Ubuntu don't
appeal to women, and this project could make a remix of Ubuntu with
default themes that appeal to women. Maybe men wouldn't accept some of
these themes in Ubuntu.
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[Lesley Binks]

2009/9/29 Harry Rickards <hrickards@...>:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 29/09/09 16:25, Ivan Serra wrote:
>> Hi Ana
>> thanks for your message
>> I respect your opinion my apologies for my email I thought it was a good
>> idea
>> Regards
>> Ivan
>>
>> Ana Guerrero ha scritto:
>>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 03:05:59PM +0200, Ivan Serra wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Ana
>>>> thanks for your email why are you speechless?
>>>> I'm just talking about that here:
>>>>
>>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1278096
>>>>
>>>> my apologies for my english
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let's see if you understand it with a little example:
>>>
>>> Imagine instead of being married and living with your wife, you live
>>> with your
>>> brother. And he does not like ubuntu and you want him to use it. Would
>>> you have made brubuntu - the awesome distro for the bro's? No, you
>>> would have try to find out why your brother does not like ubuntu,
>>> what he is missing from his former OS and see how to fix it:
>>> - if he wants cool wallpapers you teach him how to change it
>>> - if he wants an app to do X, you look for an equivalent app and ask
>>> it to get
>>>   packaged in your distro.
>>> - and also, you teach him how to use the new system...
>>> Why you do not do the same with your wife?
>>> Do you see where you mistake is?
>>>
>>> Further reading to understand the root of this problem and how to help to
>>> fix it:
>>> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/
>>>
>>>
>>> Ana
>
> Try not to take the criticism too personally. I agree with the others,
> but I think it could maybe turn out into an interesting idea if lots of
> women get involved e.g, maybe some of the default themes in Ubuntu don't
> appeal to women, and this project could make a remix of Ubuntu with
> default themes that appeal to women. Maybe men wouldn't accept some of
> these themes in Ubuntu.

Every time I see one of these stupid threads I think
"I so really really must get round to making that animated sign, the
one that says

Do Not Feed the Trolls

Maybe with some tumbleweed ermmm ... tumbling by?"

But there you go.  I'll get roundtuit one day.
I can't help wondering if the OP is a friend of that other Italian
idiot - the one at the python conference this year?  Now was it python
or was it php .. I can't recall.  Does it matter? Not really.
If you don't feed 'em they starve so can we please stop pretending the
OP was anywhere near sane or serious and get on with something more
interesting?

Regards

L.


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[myriam leggieri]

I'm an italian girl and a computer science  master student.

I'd like to enlight (even if against my own interest) the Ivan's nationality. You other human beings should comprehend him: he sees half-naked or bitch-weared women/girls/"female children" not only on television but also walking around the streets. and the hypothesis of women being not as able as men in "some fields" (quite everything with the except of 'sexual toys') is so tough that it's become a convinction.

This is why I dream to get out of this medieval country as soon as possible (and in the meantime I'm trying to organize something more even if, believe me, it's quite impossible to change anything here)

Thanks

myriam

P.S.

you can get an idea on what I'm talking about by watching a great documentary at http://www.ilcorpodelledonne.net/?page_id=91  (if the recent "POLITICAL" news are not enough... -.- )

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Lesley Binks <lesley.binks@...> wrote:

2009/9/29 Harry Rickards <hrickards@...>:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 29/09/09 16:25, Ivan Serra wrote:
>> Hi Ana
>> thanks for your message
>> I respect your opinion my apologies for my email I thought it was a good
>> idea
>> Regards
>> Ivan
>>
>> Ana Guerrero ha scritto:
>>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 03:05:59PM +0200, Ivan Serra wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Ana
>>>> thanks for your email why are you speechless?
>>>> I'm just talking about that here:
>>>>
>>>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1278096
>>>>
>>>> my apologies for my english
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let's see if you understand it with a little example:
>>>
>>> Imagine instead of being married and living with your wife, you live
>>> with your
>>> brother. And he does not like ubuntu and you want him to use it. Would
>>> you have made brubuntu - the awesome distro for the bro's? No, you
>>> would have try to find out why your brother does not like ubuntu,
>>> what he is missing from his former OS and see how to fix it:
>>> - if he wants cool wallpapers you teach him how to change it
>>> - if he wants an app to do X, you look for an equivalent app and ask
>>> it to get
>>>   packaged in your distro.
>>> - and also, you teach him how to use the new system...
>>> Why you do not do the same with your wife?
>>> Do you see where you mistake is?
>>>
>>> Further reading to understand the root of this problem and how to help to
>>> fix it:
>>> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/
>>>
>>>
>>> Ana
>
> Try not to take the criticism too personally. I agree with the others,
> but I think it could maybe turn out into an interesting idea if lots of
> women get involved e.g, maybe some of the default themes in Ubuntu don't
> appeal to women, and this project could make a remix of Ubuntu with
> default themes that appeal to women. Maybe men wouldn't accept some of
> these themes in Ubuntu.

Every time I see one of these stupid threads I think
"I so really really must get round to making that animated sign, the
one that says

Do Not Feed the Trolls

Maybe with some tumbleweed ermmm ... tumbling by?"

But there you go.  I'll get roundtuit one day.
I can't help wondering if the OP is a friend of that other Italian
idiot - the one at the python conference this year?  Now was it python
or was it php .. I can't recall.  Does it matter? Not really.
If you don't feed 'em they starve so can we please stop pretending the
OP was anywhere near sane or serious and get on with something more
interesting?

Regards

L.

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[Miriam Ruiz-4]

2009/9/29 myriam leggieri <myriam.leggieri@...>:

> I'm an italian girl and a computer science  master student.
> I'd like to enlight (even if against my own interest) the Ivan's
> nationality. You other human beings should comprehend him: he sees
> half-naked or bitch-weared women/girls/"female children" not only on
> television but also walking around the streets. and the hypothesis of women
> being not as able as men in "some fields" (quite everything with the except
> of 'sexual toys') is so tough that it's become a convinction.
> This is why I dream to get out of this medieval country as soon as possible
> (and in the meantime I'm trying to organize something more even if, believe
> me, it's quite impossible to change anything here)

I don't think that you're being fair by stereotyping all italian males
that way. It's probably quite likely that italian TV is very
mysoginistic, but there are probably nice guys in Italy as well as the
bad ones, just as everywhere. I know of quite a few italian males
which are really lovely and great persons (and there are some in
Debian, btw). I understand that you might be really angry with the
italian society, but please try to avoid generalizations and
stereotyping.

Greetings,
Miry


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[Patty Langasek]

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 02:11:42PM +0200, Ana Guerrero wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:44:51PM +0200, Ivan Serra wrote:
> > We just looking for:
> >
> >    * Graphics for the new themes,usplash,logo and wallpapers
> >    * New female programs,tools and links list
> >    * Collaborators

>
> I am speechless...

Apparently, Ana, we are supposed to have special requirements for programs,
tools and links lists. I wish someone would've told me a long time ago that
I had these special requirements. I feel like I've missed out on so much of
my Linux life.

P.S.
Both Ubuntu and Debian work just fine for me, and have for ~10 years now.
I'm certainly more comfortable with them than I was with Red Hat before
that.


--
----------------------------------------------------------

Patty Langasek
harmoney@...

----------------------------------------------------------

At times, you may end up far away from home; you may not be
sure of where you belong, anymore. But home is always
there... because home is not a place. It's wherever your
passion takes you.
                                --- J. Michael Straczynski


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[Brenda Wallace (Shiny)]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Patty Langasek <harmoney@...> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 02:11:42PM +0200, Ana Guerrero wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:44:51PM +0200, Ivan Serra wrote:
>> > We just looking for:
>> >
>> >    * Graphics for the new themes,usplash,logo and wallpapers
>> >    * New female programs,tools and links list
>> >    * Collaborators
>
>>
>> I am speechless...
>
> Apparently, Ana, we are supposed to have special requirements for programs,
> tools and links lists. I wish someone would've told me a long time ago that
> I had these special requirements. I feel like I've missed out on so much of
> my Linux life.

The whole idea is hinged on the theory that's it's the current set of
tools/programmes within desktop linux that are to blame for there
being less women involved... somehow changing the bundled apps will
bring women?

There might be a market for a distro centred around horoscopes and
menstration calculation, but i don't see any reason to blame the lack
of that as a reason for the abysmal stats of number of women
contributors.


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[Enrico Zini]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 01:45:29AM +0200, Miriam Ruiz wrote:

> Debian, btw). I understand that you might be really angry with the
> italian society, but please try to avoid generalizations and
> stereotyping.

In Myriam's defense I have to say that everything in Italy at the moment
seems to frame the mass stereotypes as models to follow, and to hide the
real good examples into oblivion[1]. And indeed many are now looking for
ways to move abroad.

My reaction after seeing the pinky distribution with horoscopes for the
girlz coming from a well-intentioned Italian was similar to Myriam's: I
had a feeling like it just had to happen.

But you are right of course: generalisation is just a way to spread the
stereotypes even more. Just like saying "people from Sicily like Mafia"
is, in essence, a way to isolate those of them who don't.


Ciao,

Enrico

[1] At least, those who do not speak up. Those who do, are beaten up,
lose their job, or get sued for slander on a judicial system biased
against people without teams of lawyers and cartloads of money.
--
GPG key: 4096R/E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini <enrico@...>

[Rayna]

Hi all,

I'm new to Debian-women, that's my first posting on the list ;o)

I agree with plenty of the remarks made here (Eric's, Miriam's ones and so on). I'd like to addsome critics in a constructive fashion. I find a woman-focused distribution a bad idea... In other words, creating something focused on a stereotype of what woman is is so reducing and sexist. Putting pink or flowers or some 'girly' stuff is so, too. There's no A women's unique profile, there are as many profiles as there are women in the world. Creating a distribution orientated to a special human group is admitting that this group has special needs. That is a biased vision. I'm a woman, my background isn't in computer science. But I use Debian Sid and Ubuntu and ArchLinux (as well as I can...). No pink, no flowers, no poneys, no butterflies.

If a woman isn't interested in informatics, it's partly because little girls read books on stupid princess saved by a very clever prince or dumb stuff from that kind. I'm not really sure that creating something special like shebuntu will change thet thing. I think that it would be far more interesting for all of us that some men stop considering us like helpless children or making complexes when, surprisingly for them, we know more...

Have a nice day,
Rayna

2009/9/30 Enrico Zini <enrico@...>

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 01:45:29AM +0200, Miriam Ruiz wrote:

> Debian, btw). I understand that you might be really angry with the
> italian society, but please try to avoid generalizations and
> stereotyping.

In Myriam's defense I have to say that everything in Italy at the moment
seems to frame the mass stereotypes as models to follow, and to hide the
real good examples into oblivion[1]. And indeed many are now looking for
ways to move abroad.

My reaction after seeing the pinky distribution with horoscopes for the
girlz coming from a well-intentioned Italian was similar to Myriam's: I
had a feeling like it just had to happen.

But you are right of course: generalisation is just a way to spread the
stereotypes even more. Just like saying "people from Sicily like Mafia"
is, in essence, a way to isolate those of them who don't.


Ciao,

Enrico

[1] At least, those who do not speak up. Those who do, are beaten up,
lose their job, or get sued for slander on a judicial system biased
against people without teams of lawyers and cartloads of money.
--
GPG key: 4096R/E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini <enrico@...>

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--
"Change l'ordre du monde plutôt que tes désirs."

PhD Student
"Molecular Evolution and Bioinformatics"
Ludwig-Maximilians University (LMU) of Munich
Biozentrum
Grosshaderner Str. 2
82152 Planegg-Martinsried
Germany


What happens when you've worked too long in the lab :
*You wonder what absolute alcohol tastes like with orange juice.
*Warning labels invoke curiosity rather than caution.
*The Christmas nightout reveals scientists can't dance, although a formula for the movement of hands and feet combined with beats per min is found scrawled on a napkin by a waiter the next day.
*When you have twins, you call one of them John and the other - Control.

[Miriam Ruiz-4]

2009/9/30 Rayna <rayna.st@...>:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to Debian-women, that's my first posting on the list ;o)

Welcome!!! :)

Greetings,
Miry


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[Lesley Binks]

2009/9/30 Rayna <rayna.st@...>:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to Debian-women, that's my first posting on the list ;o)
>
> I agree with plenty of the remarks made here (Eric's, Miriam's ones and so
> on). I'd like to addsome critics in a constructive fashion. I find a
> woman-focused distribution a bad idea... In other words, creating something
> focused on a stereotype of what woman is is so reducing and sexist. Putting
> pink or flowers or some 'girly' stuff is so, too. There's no A women's
> unique profile, there are as many profiles as there are women in the world.
> Creating a distribution orientated to a special human group is admitting
> that this group has special needs. That is a biased vision. I'm a woman, my
> background isn't in computer science. But I use Debian Sid and Ubuntu and
> ArchLinux (as well as I can...). No pink, no flowers, no poneys, no
> butterflies.
>
> If a woman isn't interested in informatics, it's partly because little girls
> read books on stupid princess saved by a very clever prince or dumb stuff
> from that kind. I'm not really sure that creating something special like
> shebuntu will change thet thing. I think that it would be far more
> interesting for all of us that some men stop considering us like helpless
> children or making complexes when, surprisingly for them, we know more...
>

<snip>

+1 on that Rayna. Welcome to the group :)

Here's a review of the Snow White story for those now wanting to
consider fairy tales in a new light
http://www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/forsga.html

Regards
Lesley


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[Anne Ghisla Insubriae]

Il giorno mer, 30/09/2009 alle 10.47 +0100, Lesley Binks ha scritto:
> 2009/9/30 Rayna <rayna.st@...>:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm new to Debian-women, that's my first posting on the list ;o)

> <snip>
>
> +1 on that Rayna. Welcome to the group :)

let me join to welcome you to the group ;)

> Here's a review of the Snow White story for those now wanting to
> consider fairy tales in a new light
> http://www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/forsga.html

Many thanks for the link. I'd like to recommend a book about this
subject, from Clarissa Pinkola Estés:
Women Who Run With the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman
Archetype, (Ballantine 1992/ 1996)

have a good day,
Anne

> Regards
> Lesley
>
>