shop warning

[skip-10]

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm



basically - don't use brake cleaner when you weld.  ever.
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[Michael Jordan]

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:31 PM, skip <onefaller@...> wrote:

> http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
>
>
>
> basically - don't use brake cleaner when you weld.  ever.


Ditto for refrigerants and open flame - phosgene. If you're gonna solder an
A/C line - evacuate the puppy completely first.

Better yet, have a pro do it. NASTY stuff.

--
Michael J.
'86 SRX-6
'93 GSX1100G
'03 DL1000
AMA
IBA #3901
USAF (Ret)
NRA
etc.
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[Brian Roach]

Also: If your wedding ring is made out of platinum, remove it before
using carb cleaner. There's a rather painful chemical reaction involved.

Trust me on this.

- Roach

Michael Jordan wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:31 PM, skip <onefaller@...> wrote:
>
>  
>> http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> basically - don't use brake cleaner when you weld.  ever.
>>    
>
>
> Ditto for refrigerants and open flame - phosgene. If you're gonna solder an
> A/C line - evacuate the puppy completely first.
>
> Better yet, have a pro do it. NASTY stuff.
>
>  

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[Dale Horstman]

skip probably saved my bacon when he wrote:
> http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
>
>
>
> basically - don't use brake cleaner when you weld.  ever.
> _______________________________________________

Skip,

Thanks for passing that warning along.  That's probably something I
would have
stupidly managed to do at some point in my fledgling hobbyist TIG
welding career.
I've got brake cleaner here in my shop, and it does a great job of
cleaning stuff.  And
stuff really needs to be cleaned well to be TIG welded.

Since we are talking about welding (and yes, it's moto-related, I've got
some aluminum
Concours saddle bag brackets & footpeg brackets that I broke a long time
ago, kept
all the broken pieces, and now I can use them to practice on...), I just
gotta brag to
someone.  I took a MIG & TIG welding class at NVCC Manassas campus a
year ago
in the fall semester, (Highly recommended, by the way, good course,
great equipment,
knowledgeable & skilled instructor, nice experience, and yes, I geeked
out, studied for the
exam, and got an 'A'.) and just recently got my hands on a prehistoric
dinosaur of a TIG
welder (we're talking early '80s vintage here), about the size of a big
refrigerator and more
than twice as heavy.  Craigslist is my friend.  :)

So now in my copious spare time (yeah, uh-huh) I can play around
sticking little bits of
stuff together to make big pieces of, uh, stuff.  But it's fun, and I
might actually get good
at it someday.

If I don't kill myself with brake cleaner first.  :)   Thanks again, Skip!

Hork

"Have welder, can't travel."

--
Dale Horstman - horkster@...
Manassas, Virginia, USA, Earth

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer                

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[mike b.-4]

Dale Horstman wrote:

> So now in my copious spare time (yeah, uh-huh) I can play around
> sticking little bits of
> stuff together to make big pieces of, uh, stuff.  But it's fun, and I
> might actually get good
> at it someday.
>
> If I don't kill myself with brake cleaner first.  :)   Thanks again, Skip!

Yeah, thanks Skip!  In my copious free time I'm doing similar
things...with MIG and O/A.  The O/A doesn't seem like much of a risk,
according to that label, but the MIG is...it uses argon/CO2 shielding
gas, same as the TIG.  Don't know if I'd have tried brake cleaner, but
it's entirely possible.  Or was. ;-)

-- Mike B.
--

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's
mistakes is better.
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[PenguinBiker-2]

> > basically - don't use brake cleaner when you weld.  ever.

Here is a good basic rule, welding or not.
Do not expose any shop chemical to heat.
If you can avoid it don’t even expose a chemical to warmth, _really_.
A couple of examples I have experienced: If Brakleen (Tetrachloroethylene) is sprayed on warm, utterly clean, as in fresh cut or tapped, aluminum with some steel in the mix a _very_ nasty corrosion results. I used Brakleen to clean debris from newly tapped (existing threads that I had chased/cleaned with a tap) threads. I then blew out the hole with air and put the bolt in place. Whenever I took the bolt out, (it was my own competition bike) it was nasty, rusty, sorta tar ey, so of course I “cleaned” the threads again…
And again. I never saw the cause because the reaction did not occur until the engine was started and got warm. It was years later when I used the “cleaning” technique on a freshly re-tapped hole in a fairly warm engine (It was a hurry up job) and out came a hot, bubbling smelly tar, clearly corrosion and very nasty. Never did that again!
If you use the proper foam air filter oil, the stuff for _foam_ filters, not the ATF stuff for K+N filters. I mean the sticky, gooey stuff made for dirt bike foam filters. If you then install the filter and start the bike before all of the volatile agents that thin the stuff to allow it to spread around have evaporated the fumes coming from the exhaust are like breathing acid. VERY nasty and I suspect very dangerous.

Oh and you always need _lots_ and lots of ventilation when working on your bikes they contain lots of nasty things you do not want to breathe.

John
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[PenguinBiker-2]

----- "Mike B." <omni@...> wrote:

> The O/A doesn't seem like much of a risk,
> according to that label,

Did you know that oxygen was once labeled “non flammable” (It is now labeled as oxidizer or something more reasonable.)
Oxygen? NON Flammable? How the hell do you have a fire without it?
I always got a kick out of that.

As for danger it depends a lot on what you are welding, what it has _on_ it, in it, and even what is under it on your table. You can still get some nasty fumes, so lots of ventilation is called for. But I am sure you know that.

John.
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[mike b.-4]

PenguinBiker@... wrote:
> ----- "Mike B." <omni@...> wrote:
>
>> The O/A doesn't seem like much of a risk, according to that label,
>>
>
> Did you know that oxygen was once labeled “non flammable” (It is now
> labeled as oxidizer or something more reasonable.) Oxygen? NON
> Flammable? How the hell do you have a fire without it? I always got a
> kick out of that.

Oxygen doesn't burn...other things burn when there's oxygen...so it
really isn't flammable.

> As for danger it depends a lot on what you are welding, what it has
> _on_ it, in it, and even what is under it on your table. You can
> still get some nasty fumes, so lots of ventilation is called for. But
> I am sure you know that.

Yep!  In some cases you can get explosions too.  The brake cleaner label
specified heat and argon though, which is why I was figuring the O/A rig
might be ok as far as phosgene goes at least.  Still might be other
nasties just from the heat.

-- Mike B.

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[PenguinBiker-2]

----- "Mike B." <omni@...> wrote:
>
> Oxygen doesn't burn...other things burn when there's oxygen...so it
> really isn't flammable.

Well, yes, and no. There is O but oxygen does not like to be alone so it travels in pairs as O2 and you could look at the act of O becoming O2 as burning.
And lets not forget O3 (Ozone) that’s “burned” O2.

It’s just playing with definitions I know, but…

> Yep!  In some cases you can get explosions too.  

And no explosive as such is necessary. A guy down the street from where we lived once was welding next to a tire. The radiated heat built up pressure in the tire until it exploded killing him.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!

John

A little bit of welding is OK, hell I did a little just the other day but as a career it sucks, bad for your health even if you do not poison yourself or blow yourself up.
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[PenguinBiker-2]

Oh, and for those who are thinking of welding as a career or job. Learn to read blueprints, learn how to cut steel, learn how to fit stuff together by blueprint and you will wind up as a fitter or structural mechanic. There will be more pay, and while you will still need to know how to weld you will likely do a hell of a lot less of it because your time will be far more valuable fitting then someone who is “just” a welder. Welders are looked at for the most part as grunt workers, mindless drones.
11 years as a steel worker. I know.

John.
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[mike b.-4]

PenguinBiker@... wrote:
> ----- "Mike B." <omni@...> wrote:

>> Yep!  In some cases you can get explosions too.
>
> And no explosive as such is necessary. A guy down the street from
> where we lived once was welding next to a tire. The radiated heat
> built up pressure in the tire until it exploded killing him.

Concrete is another danger...it has water in it, and when heated fast
and hard, it can "explode" due to the water turning to steam and
fracturing the concrete violently.  Don't weld directly on concrete.  I
use fire brick, and that works fine.

> A little bit of welding is OK, hell I did a little just the other day
> but as a career it sucks, bad for your health even if you do not
> poison yourself or blow yourself up.

Agreed.  Iron poisoning, burns, cuts, UV exposure if you don't use
proper equipment, etc., etc.  Anything that will melt steel will do lots
of other stuff to whatever's around too, including you.

-- Mike B.
--

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's
mistakes is better.
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[PenguinBiker-2]

> PenguinBiker@... wrote:

> > Concrete is just like a cross between popcorn and napalm.

----- "Mike B." <omni@...> wrote:

> I tend to read safety materials before I do new things.

I got "on the job" training. What that means is a boss saying "Cut that off". It was perfectly safe... For him...

> Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's
> mistakes is better.

So maybe I am not wasting my time talking about things I “never” did.

John




----- "Mike B." <omni@...> wrote:

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