should we use bazaar?

[Jochen Theodorou]

Hi all,

since I still have internet connection problems I constantly am aware of
the fact, that I can not commit my code, I can not even really work on
other bugs, because I can not do a checkout... and doing a commit?
Forget it. This sucks big times.

I noticed, that with bazaar and other distributed revision tools I won't
have this problem at all. Because even if I would not be able to do the
commit I would still be able to work on a different branch for each bug
I fix and then merge them all together as soon as the internet works again.

So I searched a bit in the net (using public internet) and I found that
there exists bazaar-gtk
(http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Programming/Version-Control/Bazaar-GTK-20586.shtml)
and tortoise-bzr (http://bazaar-vcs.org/TortoiseBzr), two tools with UIs
  that can be used on windows or linux to handle updates, commits and
whatever, both contain bindings with the file manager (nautilus for
bazaar-gtk, windows explorer for tortoise-bzr). Also bazaar is available
on every platform and it seems as it can use subversion as backend too.

We should really target to migrate to bazaar I think. I looked at git as
well, but it seems the tool-support isn't as nice as for bazaar. Those
UIs have the advantage, that you don't need to use the IDE internals for
this. I always worked like that when I was still on windows and still do
so most of the time, but now without UI.

So my question is more or less, if someone has
(1) a good reason to not to switch
(2) tested the tools
(3) can explain why another tool is better

Russel? You like bazaar most too, yes? What do others think?

bye blackdrag

--
Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
The Groovy Project Tech Lead (http://groovy.codehaus.org)
http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/
http://www.g2one.com/

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[Alex Tkachman]

Is it possible to setup bazaar in a way that for me it will be
subversion? I heard somewhere that it is possible.
I have so nice integration in IntelliJ

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Jochen Theodorou <blackdrag@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> since I still have internet connection problems I constantly am aware of the
> fact, that I can not commit my code, I can not even really work on other
> bugs, because I can not do a checkout... and doing a commit? Forget it. This
> sucks big times.
>
> I noticed, that with bazaar and other distributed revision tools I won't
> have this problem at all. Because even if I would not be able to do the
> commit I would still be able to work on a different branch for each bug I
> fix and then merge them all together as soon as the internet works again.
>
> So I searched a bit in the net (using public internet) and I found that
> there exists bazaar-gtk
> (http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Programming/Version-Control/Bazaar-GTK-20586.shtml)
> and tortoise-bzr (http://bazaar-vcs.org/TortoiseBzr), two tools with UIs
>  that can be used on windows or linux to handle updates, commits and
> whatever, both contain bindings with the file manager (nautilus for
> bazaar-gtk, windows explorer for tortoise-bzr). Also bazaar is available on
> every platform and it seems as it can use subversion as backend too.
>
> We should really target to migrate to bazaar I think. I looked at git as
> well, but it seems the tool-support isn't as nice as for bazaar. Those UIs
> have the advantage, that you don't need to use the IDE internals for this. I
> always worked like that when I was still on windows and still do so most of
> the time, but now without UI.
>
> So my question is more or less, if someone has
> (1) a good reason to not to switch
> (2) tested the tools
> (3) can explain why another tool is better
>
> Russel? You like bazaar most too, yes? What do others think?
>
> bye blackdrag
>
> --
> Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
> The Groovy Project Tech Lead (http://groovy.codehaus.org)
> http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/
> http://www.g2one.com/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
>   http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

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[glaforge]

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Jochen Theodorou <blackdrag@...> wrote:
> [...]
> So my question is more or less, if someone has
> (1) a good reason to not to switch

No good IDE support yet -- especially IntelliJ IDEA.

> (2) tested the tools

I haven't, but others have (ie. Russel, Jeff, and more)

> (3) can explain why another tool is better

I don't know.

--
Guillaume Laforge
Groovy Project Manager
G2One, Inc. Vice-President Technology
http://www.g2one.com

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[Paul King]

I am spiking out using bazaar as a front end to subversion
at the moment with a client. They may drop it and just go
with subversion 1.5 in the end but I will have some more
to report shortly. It will cover bzr4idea as well. My
experiences so far are that it is (at least when windows
is in the equation) much less mature than subversion
but in most other ways nicer. Can't really comment on
speed just yet.

The other thing is that codehaus may have mercurial
up and running first, so that would be something else
to throw into the equation.

Paul.

Guillaume Laforge wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Jochen Theodorou <blackdrag@...> wrote:
>> [...]
>> So my question is more or less, if someone has
>> (1) a good reason to not to switch
>
> No good IDE support yet -- especially IntelliJ IDEA.
>
>> (2) tested the tools
>
> I haven't, but others have (ie. Russel, Jeff, and more)
>
>> (3) can explain why another tool is better
>
> I don't know.
>

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[chanwit]

Hi,

I switched to bazaar, then I've recently switcted again to git.
I'm currently using git (cygwin on Windows). It's working very well in
the terms of speed and interoperability with SVN.

Git is a bit more complex than Bazaar, but it's really fast and
amazing VCS software.
Russel mentioned somethings not good about bazaar-SVN interop in this
list as well.
I've faced that problem, so I decided to try Git.

Chanwit

> So my question is more or less, if someone has
> (1) a good reason to not to switch
> (2) tested the tools
> (3) can explain why another tool is better
>
> Russel? You like bazaar most too, yes? What do others think?
>
> bye blackdrag
>
> --
> Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
> The Groovy Project Tech Lead (http://groovy.codehaus.org)
> http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/
> http://www.g2one.com/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
>   http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
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>

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[Jeff Brown-16]

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Alex Tkachman <alex.tkachman@...> wrote:
> Is it possible to setup bazaar in a way that for me it will be
> subversion? I heard somewhere that it is possible.
> I have so nice integration in IntelliJ
>

I have not used bazaar but I am using Git for everything now.  Even on
projects where I am stuck with SVN, I use Git to clone the SVN repo
and from my end, it is all Git.  I don't think I have a single .svn/
directory on my machine at this point.  ;)

Using this approach doesn't give me all the benefits of Git but it
does give me some that I really like.  I commit on airplanes all the
time (disconnected commits).  I have the entire repo history local,
which is really nice for a number of reasons.  I can stage commits
locally before pushing them all up the central repo.

I expect bazaar, mercurial and the rest of the ilk do a lot of these
same things.  Git is the only one I have really dug into and I really
really like it.



jb
--
Jeff Brown
Director North American Operations
G2One Inc.
http://www.g2one.com/

Autism Strikes 1 in 166
Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/

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[Martin C. Martin]

This is a good read:

http://blog.red-bean.com/sussman/?p=96

Short version: programmers are often insecure about their code, and
often want to develop a big feature on their own, before committing it.
  But that means it doesn't get reviewed while in progress, which often
means their multiple months of work aren't accepted, or the project
accepts something confusing, buggy and hard to maintain.  Either way,
the project loses.

So you want to encourage people to check in code to a branch fairly
often.  Mercurial is better at this than Git, Git makes code-hiding the
standard way of operating.  e.g. "get rebase" destroys an entire line of
history.  I don't know about bazzar.

I haven't seen the "code-bomb" (large check in of low quality code) in
Groovy much at all, so maybe this is a non-issue for us.  But then
again, I haven't really been looking.

Best,
Martin

Chanwit Kaewkasi wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I switched to bazaar, then I've recently switcted again to git.
> I'm currently using git (cygwin on Windows). It's working very well in
> the terms of speed and interoperability with SVN.
>
> Git is a bit more complex than Bazaar, but it's really fast and
> amazing VCS software.
> Russel mentioned somethings not good about bazaar-SVN interop in this
> list as well.
> I've faced that problem, so I decided to try Git.
>
> Chanwit
>
>> So my question is more or less, if someone has
>> (1) a good reason to not to switch
>> (2) tested the tools
>> (3) can explain why another tool is better
>>
>> Russel? You like bazaar most too, yes? What do others think?
>>
>> bye blackdrag
>>
>> --
>> Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
>> The Groovy Project Tech Lead (http://groovy.codehaus.org)
>> http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.g2one.com/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>>   http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>>
>
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[Jeff Brown-16]

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Martin C. Martin
<martin@...> wrote:
>
>
> So you want to encourage people to check in code to a branch fairly often.
>  Mercurial is better at this than Git, Git makes code-hiding the standard
> way of operating.  e.g. "get rebase" destroys an entire line of history.  I
> don't know about bazzar.
>

I think the phrase "destroys an entire line of history" may be
misleading to folks not familiar with how this works.  You really
aren't destroying a bunch of changes, you are just moving them to
another point in the tree, right?  In practice, this seems to work
very well.

It may very well be that Mercurial is better at this, I have no idea.
I am not sure I really understand why the guy says that Git's rebase
promotes code hiding.  The developer still gets to decide when/if he
shares the changes he has made.



jb
--
Jeff Brown
Director North American Operations
G2One Inc.
http://www.g2one.com/

Autism Strikes 1 in 166
Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/

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[Russel Winder-4]

On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 08:02 -0500, Jeff Brown wrote:

> I have not used bazaar but I am using Git for everything now.  Even on
> projects where I am stuck with SVN, I use Git to clone the SVN repo
> and from my end, it is all Git.  I don't think I have a single .svn/
> directory on my machine at this point.  ;)

If all you want is a Subversion client that beats Subversion then Git is
certainly a possibility -- but I still prefer Bazaar.  My problem with
Git is that there is no consistency to the command set, the
fragmentation is dreadful.  I would liken using Git for version control
to trying to write Grails in IBM 370 assembly language -- certainly it
is possible but would you really want to do it?

> Using this approach doesn't give me all the benefits of Git but it
> does give me some that I really like.  I commit on airplanes all the
> time (disconnected commits).  I have the entire repo history local,
> which is really nice for a number of reasons.  I can stage commits
> locally before pushing them all up the central repo.

This is what is wrong with Subversion, its centralized.  This is what is
right about Bazaar, Git and Mercurial, they are distributed.  Bazaar and
Git can interwork with a Subversion repository, as far as I am aware
Mercurial cannot, at least not yet.

> I expect bazaar, mercurial and the rest of the ilk do a lot of these
> same things.  Git is the only one I have really dug into and I really
> really like it.

I am completely ambivalent about Git.  It is bitty, complex, you can
destroy your repository very easily indeed, but if your workflow is
identical to the Linux development workflow then it works well.  Git is
the tool you need if you are trying to emulate Torvalds way of working.

When it comes down to it though whilst the master copy of Groovy is held
in Subversion there is nothing wrong different people using different
systems to work with their own branches.  Of course if people want to
collaborate they need to agree on which tool to avoid fighting with
Subversions inept (aka non-existent) support for branches and merging.
Subversion is a superb versioned filestore, it is now clearly not
adequate as a project version control system.  Whichever way Groovy
goes, Bazaar, Git or Mercurial, things can only get better.

I vote for Bazaar.  I think I have convinced Ben to support Bazaar as
well as Git and Mercurial as Codehaus realizes that Subversion is not
the tool needed for best support of the project.  This would mean we
don't have to move to using Launchpad.
--
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                 Partner

Concertant LLP                   t: [phone], [phone]
41 Buckmaster Road,              f: [phone]
London SW11 1EN, UK.             m: [phone]

[Russel Winder-4]

On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 20:02 +0700, Chanwit Kaewkasi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I switched to bazaar, then I've recently switcted again to git.
> I'm currently using git (cygwin on Windows). It's working very well in
> the terms of speed and interoperability with SVN.
>
> Git is a bit more complex than Bazaar, but it's really fast and
> amazing VCS software.

s/a bit/vastly/p

Git is faster than Bazaar (and Mercurial) in most cases.

> Russel mentioned somethings not good about bazaar-SVN interop in this
> list as well.
> I've faced that problem, so I decided to try Git.

Because I asked (often and regularly :-)  Jelmer Vernooij, the person
responsible for bzr-svn is adding a dpush command to Bazaar.  This will
give exactly the same lightweight Subversion interaction capability that
Git has.  Actually this will make Bazaar vastly more functional than Git
at working with Subversion repositories.  He plans to land it in 0.4.12
so it should be with us shortly.

I know I keep going on about it but I want to make sure there is no
misinformation:  if all you want to do is have a Subversion client that
allows experimental branching and offline commits, then Git is good and
Bazaar is good.  I prefer Bazaars command set and GUI tools, but Git can
do the job.

If we are looking at a long term plan to shift from Subversion to a
DVCS, and I think we should at the earliest possible opportunity, then
it has to be one of Bazaar, Git or Mercurial with the biggest factor
being whatever Codehaus supports.  I would vote for Bazaar, I could live
with Mercurial, I am not sure I would like it if we went with Git.

--
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                 Partner

Concertant LLP                   t: [phone], [phone]
41 Buckmaster Road,              f: [phone]
London SW11 1EN, UK.             m: [phone]

[Russel Winder-4]

On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 09:36 -0400, Martin C. Martin wrote:
[ . . . ]
> So you want to encourage people to check in code to a branch fairly
> often.  Mercurial is better at this than Git, Git makes code-hiding the
> standard way of operating.  e.g. "get rebase" destroys an entire line of
> history.  I don't know about bazzar.

What is it about Git that make you think this?

Rebase is an issue all on its own.  When using Git/Bazaar as an
intelligent interface to a Subversion store then rebase is absolutely
essential.  When working just in Bazaar or Git then rebase is probably
anathema except in one or two very special corner cases.

Mercurial has a very weird view of what constitutes a branch compared to
Git or Bazaar.  If it fits the workflow then fine, it is great, but...
I have to admit I am more in the Bazaar (and to extent Git) view of
branch.

> I haven't seen the "code-bomb" (large check in of low quality code) in
> Groovy much at all, so maybe this is a non-issue for us.  But then
> again, I haven't really been looking.

I think there has sometimes been a tendency to commit unreviewed
material that has come as a surprise to people, but I don't recollect
low quality code being committed.
--
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                 Partner

Concertant LLP                   t: [phone], [phone]
41 Buckmaster Road,              f: [phone]
London SW11 1EN, UK.             m: [phone]

[Jason Dillon]

The next version of IDEA is supposed to support GIT and Bazaar...

--jason


On Jun 26, 2008, at 7:43 PM, Guillaume Laforge wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Jochen Theodorou  
> <blackdrag@...> wrote:
>> [...]
>> So my question is more or less, if someone has
>> (1) a good reason to not to switch
>
> No good IDE support yet -- especially IntelliJ IDEA.
>
>> (2) tested the tools
>
> I haven't, but others have (ie. Russel, Jeff, and more)
>
>> (3) can explain why another tool is better
>
> I don't know.
>
> --
> Guillaume Laforge
> Groovy Project Manager
> G2One, Inc. Vice-President Technology
> http://www.g2one.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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[glaforge]

Having features such as the visual diffs you get in IDEA is really
handy and hard to abandon.
Or things like the view on the repository, with incoming changes, and
the way you can "shelve" local changes, etc.
I'm usually not the kind of guy who's tied to tools, especially visual
ones, but for SCM stuff, that's every useful.

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:21 PM, Jason Dillon <jason@...> wrote:

> The next version of IDEA is supposed to support GIT and Bazaar...
>
> --jason
>
>
> On Jun 26, 2008, at 7:43 PM, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Jochen Theodorou <blackdrag@...>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>> So my question is more or less, if someone has
>>> (1) a good reason to not to switch
>>
>> No good IDE support yet -- especially IntelliJ IDEA.
>>
>>> (2) tested the tools
>>
>> I haven't, but others have (ie. Russel, Jeff, and more)
>>
>>> (3) can explain why another tool is better
>>
>> I don't know.
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume Laforge
>> Groovy Project Manager
>> G2One, Inc. Vice-President Technology
>> http://www.g2one.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>>
>>   http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>>
>>
>
>
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--
Guillaume Laforge
Groovy Project Manager
G2One, Inc. Vice-President Technology
http://www.g2one.com

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[Jim White]

Jochen Theodorou wrote:

> ...
> (3) can explain why another tool is better

I haven't done a direct comparison myself, but my impression so far is
that Mercurial is probably a better choice than Bazaar.

If you consider that projects like OpenJDK, IcedTea, NetBeans, and
OpenSolaris have found it the current best choice for distributed
version control, then I'm sure you'd agree that at this point
alternatives would need to explain why they're better.

http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/ProjectsUsingMercurial

There is SVN-to-Hg conversion available, as well as SVN-and-Hg sync.

http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/RepositoryConversion

One of the interesting syncing tools is hgsvn which lets you use Hg on
SVN checkouts.  That solves your disconnected operation case and allows
a thorough evaluation of Hg before making the switch for the central
repository.

That of course is one the essential virtues of distributed version
control.  And naturally even more useful in the future will be
cross-DVCS synchronization so that this issure will become moot.

http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/hgsvn

Some DVCS comparison articles:

http://www.dribin.org/dave/blog/archives/2007/12/28/dvcs/

http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/tools/scm/

"Why Java picked Mercurial for source control" interview with Gosling:
http://www.builderau.com.au/video/play/22447748

http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrVsHg

http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/BzrVsHg

http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/Bazaar

My best current thought it is too early for a project like Groovy to be
concerned about switching to DVCS.  Developers who want to use DVCS
should use SVN-and-DVCS-of-personal-choice-synchronization over the next
year or so.  Then the tools will then be more mature and the value of
switching (if any) will be clear.

Jim


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[Russel Winder-4]

On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 20:42 +0200, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
> Having features such as the visual diffs you get in IDEA is really
> handy and hard to abandon.

These are available, just in a different way.   If JetBrains have any
sense whatsoever (and history indicates that they have had in the past),
they will prioritize Bazaar, Mercurial and Git support.  If the
JetBrains people want to contact the Canonical people to get Bazaar
support progressing then they should.  (NB  Bazaar is officially a GNU
project, and MySQL is the latest high profile project that switched to
it.)

NetBeans already has Mercurial support as standard -- it is better than
its Subversion and CVS support from what I hear -- and Bazaar support is
coming on nicely I am told.  I don't know about Git support.  Eclipse
has Bazaar, Mercurial and Git support -- and remember not even
Subversion support is standard in Eclipse, only CVS support!

> Or things like the view on the repository, with incoming changes, and
> the way you can "shelve" local changes, etc.

The CVCS -> DVCS switch is the biggest change, apart from parenthood,
that will happen in your life.  Instead of being tied to a central
repository, everyone has their own repository.  Thus everyone has their
own view of their own repository, their are no "incoming changes" per
se.  What you do have is the notion of changesets that can be passed
around from repository to repository.

Bazaar has the "missing" command that gives you a summary of the
changeset differences between two branches.  Git and Mercurial have
equivalents.  

Bazaar has shelf, Git has stash, Mercurial almost certainly has
something equivalent.  Along with the often misunderstood and maligned
rebase, this gives you everything you need to do more or less any form
of history hacking you need.

> I'm usually not the kind of guy who's tied to tools, especially visual
> ones, but for SCM stuff, that's every useful.

Which is why Bazaar, Mercurial and Git provide the facilities.

I don't know the status on Windows of Mercurial, especially the visual
tools.  GIt is known to be a bit problematic on Windows unless you have
Cygwin, but this is being addressed.  Git's visual tools are all written
using Tk so they are fairly portable.  Bazaar has Olive-GTK which needs
GTK but otherwise works on all platforms just as RapidSVN does.  The
Tortoise family of Explorer integrations covers Bazaar (TortoiseBzr) and
Mercurial (TortoiseHg), I am not sure about Git.

I agree that generally the extra support tools are not as mature as the
Subversion ones, but they are there and they are usable.   (I am told
TortoiseBzr will be very usable when the next release happens, which is
soon -- to be honest I don't care, I don't use Windows.)

--
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                 Partner

Concertant LLP                   t: [phone], [phone]
41 Buckmaster Road,              f: [phone]
London SW11 1EN, UK.             m: [phone]

[Jeff Brown-16]

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Martin C. Martin
<martin@...> wrote:

> So you want to encourage people to check in code to a branch fairly often.
>  Mercurial is better at this than Git, Git makes code-hiding the standard
> way of operating.  e.g. "get rebase" destroys an entire line of history.  I
> don't know about bazzar.
>

On the topic of code-hiding, it is interesting to note that in the
video at http://tinyurl.com/ywfk9p, at around 34:36 Bryan O'Sullivan
talks about his technique for hiding his own exploratory adventures in
Mercurial.  Among other things he says "I don't necessarily want my
idiocy caught in the permanent record if I can necessarily avoid it".
;)



jb
--
Jeff Brown
Director North American Operations
G2One Inc.
http://www.g2one.com/

Autism Strikes 1 in 166
Find The Cause ~ Find The Cure
http://www.autismspeaks.org/

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[Russel Winder-4]

On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 20:02 +0700, Chanwit Kaewkasi wrote:

> Russel mentioned somethings not good about bazaar-SVN interop in this
> list as well.
> I've faced that problem, so I decided to try Git.

An update on this.  Although not yet in production form, Jelmer has
added the dpush command to Bazaar, so that Bazaar can now be used in the
same way that Git interacts with Subversion -- 'bzr dpush' behaves in a
directly analogous manner to 'git svn dcommit'.  This means that not
only can Bazaar store a Bazaar branch in a Subversion repository, it can
act as a DVCS client for a Subversion repository master branch.  Git
only supports the latter, and Mercurial doesn't support interworking at
all (to my knowledge).

I still think moving the master branches out of Subversion and into
Bazaar is a better thing to do (and as soon as Ben has Bazaar support at
Codehaus this is what will happen for Gant), but whilst master branches
remain in Subversion, Bazaar is now the most functional client :-)

Yes, Git is still a little faster (well quite a lot is some cases), but
Bazaar is so much easier to use.
--
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                 Partner

Concertant LLP                   t: [phone], [phone]
41 Buckmaster Road,              f: [phone]
London SW11 1EN, UK.             m: [phone]

[Robert Fischer]

Is this intended behavior?

[1, 2, 3].foo
groovy.lang.MissingPropertyException: Exception evaluating property 'foo' for java.util.ArrayList,
Reason: groovy.lang.MissingPropertyException: No such property: foo for class: java.lang.Integer

If so, why do we have a *. operator in addition to the default list comprehensions?

~~ Robert.

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[Jochen Theodorou]

Robert Fischer schrieb:
> Is this intended behavior?
>
> [1, 2, 3].foo
> groovy.lang.MissingPropertyException: Exception evaluating property 'foo' for java.util.ArrayList,
> Reason: groovy.lang.MissingPropertyException: No such property: foo for class: java.lang.Integer
>
> If so, why do we have a *. operator in addition to the default list comprehensions?

because [1,2,3].foo() would call the method foo on ArrayList, and
[1,2,3]*.foo() would call the method foo() on each element. Also given
that there is a size property on list, then [[],[1],[2,3]].size would
give the number 3, while [[],[1],[2,3]]*.size would give the list
[0,1,2]. Such a property could for example be added through a category.

bye blackdrag

--
Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
The Groovy Project Tech Lead (http://groovy.codehaus.org)
http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/
http://www.g2one.com/

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[Jochen Theodorou]

Russel Winder schrieb:

> On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 20:02 +0700, Chanwit Kaewkasi wrote:
>
>> Russel mentioned somethings not good about bazaar-SVN interop in this
>> list as well.
>> I've faced that problem, so I decided to try Git.
>
> An update on this.  Although not yet in production form, Jelmer has
> added the dpush command to Bazaar, so that Bazaar can now be used in the
> same way that Git interacts with Subversion -- 'bzr dpush' behaves in a
> directly analogous manner to 'git svn dcommit'.  This means that not
> only can Bazaar store a Bazaar branch in a Subversion repository, it can
> act as a DVCS client for a Subversion repository master branch.  Git
> only supports the latter, and Mercurial doesn't support interworking at
> all (to my knowledge).
>
> I still think moving the master branches out of Subversion and into
> Bazaar is a better thing to do (and as soon as Ben has Bazaar support at
> Codehaus this is what will happen for Gant), but whilst master branches
> remain in Subversion, Bazaar is now the most functional client :-)

Can I take this as that I can simply use bazaar locally, without
changing svn and then commit to svn, whenever I like to do so and
without somebody seeing I actually did it using bazaar? I mean if it is
like this, then we could for now switch to wahtever can work with the
subversion backend unmodified and let the individual developer decide
what to take. We could then still switch to another repository system later

> Yes, Git is still a little faster (well quite a lot is some cases), but
> Bazaar is so much easier to use.

Well, Git might be faster.. but how much? If there is not a bazaar
operation that takes 10 minutes with it but only 1 with git, then there
is probably not much to talk about. Or are there operations with
different complexitiy?

bye blackdrag

--
Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
The Groovy Project Tech Lead (http://groovy.codehaus.org)
http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/
http://www.g2one.com/

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